Your husband is sleeping with me.

[Journee]

Agreed. ExMM said this to me multiple times. He was well aware that he could have ONSs for the rest of his life, easily, and that sex was readily available to him pretty much daily from a multitude of women. But his expression was, "You know how much more wonderful sex is with someone you know and love than it is with a stranger that you have no connection with". He and I had a very active sex life for 8 years - and I was never under the impression that it was "just sex" to him - I can tell when someone is just having sex with me (or me with them, lol) and when they are loving me. It's a completely different experience - and I knew exactly what he meant when he said that about our sex being special, better, MORE for him because we had love for one another. That connection during sex when you love someone, the eye contact, the confidence in touches and knowing they know where to touch you and vice versa - irreplaceable. That's why it boggles my mind when people say that WSs just want some strange - strange is fun occasionally, but often awkward. Most men like to have a partner they know, one that they feel confident with - one that they are "used to" and know what to do and become pretty insecure with a new partner and feel judged and pressured - vs. able and "good" like they do with a partner they know well - and one they've had long term.

 

 

 

I think we all tend to paint each of these threads with our own brush. I try to look at things from all angles but sometimes are easier than others lol

 

Long term affairs may contain the exact things that you have shared just as other non affair long term relationships. Seeing all the varying lengths and circumstances surrounding each affair says a lot too. Betrayed folks most likely have had that same deep connection with their spouse. Not always. I am realizing more and more that all marriages are not created equal in the sense that not everyone marries for the same reasons. I agree that most people could have ONS forever if it was about just the release. I think some of the disconnect comes when all A's are looked at as being the same. There are most certainly things that another could not forgive my H for and things that I could not move past that I have read here. Then again, you never really know until you put in that position to leave or stay. On the boards there is never a good enough reason to leave and never a good enough reason to stay and reconcile. It's all very confusing.

[rumbleseat]

Why are you two suggesting I'm ranting? Lol Because I'm verbose? I just like to be clear on what I'm saying and am not very good at doing so without a LOT of words, lol - it's not a rant at all.

 

Again, you just don't get it. You are assuming the BS is always innocent and the WS is always guilty. And in reality, that just isn't the case at all. It's fine, you have the right to your opinion, but I absolutely disagree with you pov - and find it hypocritical and very, very naive.

 

And you always assume the opposite.

 

The poor married man had no choice but to cheat.

 

As for why she doesn't want sex?

 

Maybe he treats her like cr@p, maybe he likes things rough and it hurts her but he won't listen to that, maybe he's just a pompous @ss who treats her like cr@p in bed, or maybe he's mr wonderful and gentle and loving.

 

Maybe she wants to have sex with him, but she's turned off by his behaviour. Maybe she did lie to him. Maybe there are things that have gone on in their marriage that people don't know about that have affected her desire to be with him, or maybe he's tried really hard and nothing has worked.

 

Would it make any difference if he liked rough sex or something else she doesn't enjoy at all, but before they got married he hid that? Now that they are married he expects it and she just can't bring herself to do it? That's another form of "bait and switch" ...should she be expected to enjoy feeling debased and humiliated just for him?

 

Or, like I said, maybe it is all her fault, but I doubt it. Funny how the same people who smugly assert they don't see the world in black and white lose that trait when t comes to a bw. Somehow, it must be her fault that her husband cheated.

[rumbleseat]

You are obviously talking about an entirely different issue - an unhealthy need for sex. What you are describing is not a "normal and healthy sexual desire" at all. It's a the opposite end of no sex individuals. Those are outlying cases. In the majority of these cases, the spouse who is being denied is not expecting what you are describing - they are expecting a "normal" or at least within normal range - amounts of sexual intimacy with their partners. I'm absolutely sure that my exMM was not drugging his wife to fulfill some insatiable desire/compulsion he had.

 

He was simply asking for them to have intimacy. For him, 2 or 3 times per year, of the kind of sex that they were having, was not going to cut it. She was perfectly content, and desired, zero times per year - for years on end. There are men that are like her and can simply do without it - exMM is not one of those men, and she knew that from the get go. She also, like OPs MM's BW - was absolutely dishonest and pulled out all the stops to get what she wanted, THEN, and only then, came clean to the fact that she finds sex "dirty" and "not christian like" and was actually disgusted by his sexual desire.

 

What you did, in response to abuse, was not selfish. What exMMs wife did, and what OPs MMs wife did - absolutely selfish. ExMMs wife has no medical disorder - or at least she has never even considered being checked for one - because she absolutely did not care about exMMs unhappiness or needs at all. Period. To her, it wasn't a problem - it was all "his" problem - even though she had presented herself as a woman who liked sex through the entire 7 years - yeah 7 - that they dated and lived together prior to marriage. He gave it a good honest 7 years and went into the marriage believing who she presented herself to be. But immediately after they married, she wanted children - which they had AGREED to not have any - and then sabatoged her birth control to have them against his will and without his agreement. Then, the sex stopped, pretty much completely.

And she had all of these "rules" about how they could have sex. She blamed having kids for it - but did she ever once think to have it checked out? See if she was perhaps suffering from some kind of condition? Nope - because again, she didn't give a rat's ass that MM was suffering - she absolutely dismissed him completely and selfishly only cared about her happiness in the marriage - and she KNEW that in order for him to get out of the marriage - that he would have to go through some **** to do so, she banked on that. She also expected him to remain faithful sexually - even though they weren't having sex for years - and only because of her "issue" - the one that she never even tried to analyze or figure out or fix.

 

I'm sorry that you went through what you went through, and appreciate your honest dialogue here about it. You were, it seems, a victim of abuse of the worst kind, and nobody deserves that. I happen to think that forcing celibacy on your partner, yet expecting faithfulness, is cruel and abusive too.

 

If he didn't want kids, then why didn't he take responsibility for himself and have a vasectomy? Of course, all of that is her fault too.

[ladydesigner]

And you always assume the opposite.

 

The poor married man had no choice but to cheat.

 

As for why she doesn't want sex?

 

Maybe he treats her like cr@p, maybe he likes things rough and it hurts her but he won't listen to that, maybe he's just a pompous @ss who treats her like cr@p in bed, or maybe he's mr wonderful and gentle and loving.

 

Maybe she wants to have sex with him, but she's turned off by his behaviour. Maybe she did lie to him. Maybe there are things that have gone on in their marriage that people don't know about that have affected her desire to be with him, or maybe he's tried really hard and nothing has worked.

 

Would it make any difference if he liked rough sex or something else she doesn't enjoy at all, but before they got married he hid that? Now that they are married he expects it and she just can't bring herself to do it? That's another form of "bait and switch" ...should she be expected to enjoy feeling debased and humiliated just for him?

 

Or, like I said, maybe it is all her fault, but I doubt it. Funny how the same people who smugly assert they don't see the world in black and white lose that trait when t comes to a bw. Somehow, it must be her fault that her husband cheated.

 

rumbleseat you bring up a very good point. I knew how high my WH's sex drive was but I didn't know that I would be made to feel exploited often. I craved intimacy and passion and felt at most of the times like a blow up doll. We have since changed our sex life around 100%.

 

I believe everyone's situation is different and no one deserves to be abused. There probably are some BS's staying M for the money or don't give a rats ass about sex and then there are the others who fall into so many parallels in between.

[rumbleseat]

rumbleseat you bring up a very good point. I knew how high my WH's sex drive was but I didn't know that I would be made to feel exploited often. I craved intimacy and passion and felt at most of the times like a blow up doll. We have since changed our sex life around 100%.

 

I believe everyone's situation is different and no one deserves to be abused. There probably are some BS's staying M for the money or don't give a rats ass about sex and then there are the others who fall into so many parallels in between.

 

That's what I was trying to get at. To an outsider looking in, it may be very easy to say "she just refuses sex" , but the underlying reasons why are very important.

 

If I was an ow , I'd like to know the reasons too. Maybe they say something about he guy, maybe not, but wouldn't it be good to know?

[velvette]

That's what I was trying to get at. To an outsider looking in, it may be very easy to say "she just refuses sex" , but the underlying reasons why are very important.

 

If I was an ow , I'd like to know the reasons too. Maybe they say something about he guy, maybe not, but wouldn't it be good to know?

 

Not if it interferes with your delusions or need to feel superior to the BS. Not if it interferes with justification of your A.

[AutumnMoon]

Ok, quite honestly. I do not think this is a medical issue with his wife, I don't think she's secretly gay and I don't think she is suspicious of us.

 

I think she just prioritizes other things than sex .. That's all. She enjoys flirting and she likes men and she is attracted to her husband and he is to her. She just doesn't like sex as often.. And she doesn't like being touched much.. Or trying new things.. And yes you are right she doesn't like doing the same things me and him like doing.

 

I never said their marriage was sexless, just she isn't as into it as him and she shuts him down about 90 percent of the time. And she openly admits that to people in a pretty harsh way.

 

He loves her, not saying he doesn't.

 

Me and him connect on a different level. Not a better level. Just different.

Edited October 31, 2013 by AutumnMoon

[AutumnMoon]

He is absolutely not asking to do anything crazy with her by the way.

 

But in any case, I do think even if she had sex more often he is also an opportunity cheater.. I think if a situation arose he would take it.

 

He's my friend. I know him very well. He's in love with me, and I remind him what this is. I'm in love too but I'm not going to leave my marriage and I know he doesn't want to leave his. He goes back and forth on what he wants. Ignoring me because he can't focus.. to telling me he thinks about me non stop and its the best he's ever felt.

 

We are in a very balanced place right now and I'm working on myself.

 

So ya.. I don't want it to last forever. In a perfect world Id be happy at home with my husband and he would be happy with his wife.

 

I think when we end the affair he will just find someone else. I don't intend to ever do that.

Edited October 31, 2013 by AutumnMoon

[AutumnMoon]

That you even know those details about their sex life is disgusting.

 

Your MM isn't nice... Considering he shares private info with you.

 

I know that information from her not him.

[AutumnMoon]

That you even know those details about their sex life is disgusting.

 

Your MM isn't nice... Considering he shares private info with you.

 

.... Also.. I'm having sex with this guy and see him almost every day. I don't find anything I know about him disgusting and would like to know it all. But I don't ask and me and him seldom talk about his wife at all.

[rumbleseat]

I know you probably don't want to hear it from me, but it really sounds as if this whole thing is hurting you more than helping you. I don't think that you're a cold person, and I have to wonder if sooner or later it will all catch up to you, ever if no be else ever finds out.

You can hide the A, but you can't hide from yourself.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Wait...what????

 

 

2 months ago it was this:

 

We hang out as friends in a lot of situations and never talk about what we've done unless we are sure as are completely alone. I know he's using me.. I don't know that he knows I'm using him too. We don't say I love you. We've said a lot of things that have made it obvious to each other we feel love though but we've been able to seperate this from our daily lives pretty well I think but only because we don't let things get too intense. We could daily both go over board. Start contacting each other everyday and every night and lose focus because we start acting like horny teenagers.. So we keep contact pretty calm as often as we can maybe to once a week.. And once a month it gets intense.

 

I'm curious. Do you see your other person in daily life where you have to act as if you are not together the way you really are? Or do you roll in totally seperate circles? Different friends and such? We share the same and are both married.

How do you deal?

I'm not looking for judgment and I'm not looking to end the affair. Just navigate through some feelings that's all.

 

I think I've found a good balance.

However knowing all the same people I have to smile and be pleasant at times when I'm aching inside too. Or trying to will him with my mind to contact me so I don't have to contact him first.. Pathetic I know.

 

 

And now...this....

 

He is absolutely not asking to do anything crazy with her by the way.

 

But in any case, I do think even if she had sex more often he is also an opportunity cheater.. I think if a situation arose he would take it.

 

He's my friend. I know him very well. He's in love with me, and I remind him what this is. I'm in love too but I'm not going to leave my marriage and I know he doesn't want to leave his. He goes back and forth on what he wants. Ignoring me because he can't focus.. to telling me he thinks about me non stop and its the best he's ever felt.

 

We are in a very balanced place right now and I'm working on myself.

 

So ya.. I don't want it to last forever. In a perfect world Id be happy at home with my husband and he would be happy with his wife.

 

I think when we end the affair he will just find someone else. I don't intend to ever do that.

 

In just 2 months that's a fairly significant change to your relationship, wouldnt you say?

 

I must say Autumn, following your threads is a bit like an impending car accident....you know it aint gonna be pretty when it all goes bad, but you cant help but look. And you wont even see it coming, because its out of your control.

 

Oh yeah, and the 'losing focus' ...you're kidding yourself if you think a spouse doesnt pick up on this.

[beach]

So SHE doesn't like sex that much with her H = big deal!

 

Then HE makes a conscious choice to cheat on her - that tells you more about his lack of character.

 

A real gem he is :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

He could get honest and divorce her - but he doesn't. He is with HER after all...

[DannyCA]

You're married and he's married? Honestly, you can try to justify what you guys are doing but that's pretty f'ed up. You guys are the reason why marriage is becoming (or has become already) trivialized. Seriously, you two just need to be single and go get your jollies off and not be bringing third parties into your flings.

[dichotomy]

 

She always goes into great detail about her husband when she is with other women. And she's told me a lot about their sex life,

 

 

So it was four of us last night and she starts going into how they haven't had sex for 3 weeks. How she feels a little bad for him but she just doesn't enjoy sex, and thinks he should be happy pleasuring himself..

 

OP

 

Before starting let me say - I am BS, and a guy - I know the hurts of affairs and anger at cheaters - so I will pass over the easy target of you and OM cheating...... to point out something else (if the way you tell this story is true) - the OM's wife is a cruel insensitive partner to OM

 

How dare she share intimate details of her husband and her sex life in an open setting with many other women, and then joke about ignoring his needs for intimacy, and how she thinls its funny (and ok) it is for him to just go jerk off.

 

It would be like a bunch of guys joking around "my wife wants too many hugs and kind words of love - she is fine to just go hug and talk to herself in a corner" ha ha.

 

So much dysfunction in this story - but I just wanted to point out the other part.

Edited October 31, 2013 by dichotomy

[yellowmaverick]

AM - I think that you are very conflicted about your affair. You are trying to compartmentalize, but your conscience won't let you. This should tell you something.

[janedoe67]

Many people go their entire lives without sex and do just fine. If going without it won't cause you to keel over and die, it's not a need.

 

In this case....

 

STAY. SINGLE.

 

Easy peasy

 

People with brains don't buy boats if they hate the water or build swimming pools if they don't know how to swim or buy dogsif they have life-threatening allergies.

 

If you do not want to be physically intimate with another person

 

Do. Not. Get. Married....or at least have the decency to marry another asexual so someone isn't dying inside.

 

Personally, I think these women who expect a man to have all sorts of deep conversation all this time annoying. Deep conversation isn't a need. Neither is getting a gift on your birthday. Or having someone help wash dishes.

[rumbleseat]

In this case....

 

 

 

If you do not want to be physically intimate with another person

 

Do. Not. Get. Married....or at least have the decency to marry another asexual so someone isn't dying inside.

 

Personally, I think these women who expect a man to have all sorts of deep conversation all this time annoying. Deep conversation isn't a need. Neither is getting a gift on your birthday. Or having someone help wash dishes.

 

 

That sounds pretty judgmental. Just because it is not an need for you doesn't mean it is not a need for them.

 

Maybe for some women, it is a need. Maybe for them, that is how they feel mentally connected to someone , which makes them want to be physically connected with them as well. Maybe for them, being intimate means more than just intimate in the physical sense, it means intimacy in every way.

 

If human beings are social animals, then , for some, isn't the need to feel close to someone through social means ( deep conversation) likely just as important?

 

Not everyone is like this, but some are. There are women who do need taht tyope of thing to feel connected, and their husband's were more than happy to oblige before they were married. Maybe it's that the relationship was new, and getting to know the person is half the fun.

 

Sometimes with married people, you can start to feel like you already know them, and like there isn't much left to talk about, which is sad, because having these types of conversations can be a big part of bonding. If you are the type who needs that sort of thing, you can end up feeling like this person, even though you know them incredibly well, is a stranger. What happened to the person you used to be able to stay up all night and talk about everything with? You'd be intimate, then snuggle up and talk, be intimate again, talk a bit more and all asleep in each others arms. Now it seems like you've lost that connection, and for many people, you can't have one without the other.

 

It's probably no one's fault. Life has a way of happening all around you, and you get tired. for some people, if they lose either part of that bond ( be it sexual intimacy or conversational intimacy), it can be really hard to feel close not matter how good the other part is.

 

I think some people just assume that if you love the person, everything will just sort of fall into place and happen on it's own, but it doesn't. It takes effort.

[AutumnMoon]

Wait...what????

 

 

2 months ago it was this:

 

Originally Posted by AutumnMoon *

We hang out as friends in a lot of situations and never talk about what we've done unless we are sure as are completely alone. I know he's using me.. I don't know that he knows I'm using him too. We don't say I love you. We've said a lot of things that have made it obvious to each other we feel love though but we've been able to seperate this from our daily lives pretty well I think but only because we don't let things get too intense. We could daily both go over board. Start contacting each other everyday and every night and lose focus because we start acting like horny teenagers.. So we keep contact pretty calm as often as we can maybe to once a week.. And once a month it gets intense.*

 

 

 

 

I'm curious. Do you see your other person in daily life where you have to act as if you are not together the way you really are? Or do you roll in totally seperate circles? Different friends and such? We share the same and are both married.*

How do you deal?

I'm not looking for judgment and I'm not looking to end the affair. Just navigate through some feelings that's all.*

 

 

 

 

I think I've found a good balance.

However knowing all the same people I have to smile and be pleasant at times when I'm aching inside too. Or trying to will him with my mind to contact me so I don't have to contact him first.. Pathetic I know.

 

 

And now...this....

Originally Posted by AutumnMoon *

He is absolutely not asking to do anything crazy with her by the way.

 

 

 

 

But in any case, I do think even if she had sex more often he is also an opportunity cheater.. I think if a situation arose he would take it.

 

 

 

 

He's my friend. I know him very well. He's in love with me, and I remind him what this is. I'm in love too but I'm not going to leave my marriage and I know he doesn't want to leave his. He goes back and forth on what he wants. Ignoring me because he can't focus.. to telling me he thinks about me non stop and its the best he's ever felt.

 

 

 

 

We are in a very balanced place right now and I'm working on myself.*

 

 

 

 

So ya.. I don't want it to last forever. In a perfect world Id be happy at home with my husband and he would be happy with his wife.*

 

 

 

 

I think when we end the affair he will just find someone else. I don't intend to ever do that.

 

 

In just 2 months that's a fairly significant change to your relationship, wouldnt you say?

 

I must say Autumn, following your threads is a bit like an impending car accident....you know it aint gonna be pretty when it all goes bad, but you cant help but look. And you wont even see it coming, because its out of your control.

 

Oh yeah, and the 'losing focus' ...you're kidding yourself if you think a spouse doesnt pick up on this.

 

 

Where were you noticing the significant change? Other than us talking about our feelings since my first posts not a lot has changed. We still see each other just as often but keep texting and the inappropriate conversations to a minimum as much as possible because BOTH of us get to intense and can't focus on daily like when we are thinking about it..

 

We haven't said the love word very often and never said "I love you."

More like... I love this about you, or that.. I can't stop thinking about you.. That kind of thing.

 

We love and care about one another but we are definitely both using one another for the things we want and need that we wernt getting from our marriages.

 

Not much has changed other than us talking about him not ignoring me to help himself disconnect when he needs space.. He was doing that for his own reasons trying to protect himself and I'm fine with him needing that .. I realize how good it is for both of us as long as I get a heads up first.

 

And yes.. Our spouses both did notice the 'losing focus' which is exactly why we took a step back and relaxed..

Edited October 31, 2013 by AutumnMoon

[PhoenixRise]

He is absolutely not asking to do anything crazy with her by the way.

 

But in any case, I do think even if she had sex more often he is also an opportunity cheater.. I think if a situation arose he would take it.

 

He's my friend. I know him very well. He's in love with me, and I remind him what this is. I'm in love too but I'm not going to leave my marriage and I know he doesn't want to leave his. He goes back and forth on what he wants. Ignoring me because he can't focus.. to telling me he thinks about me non stop and its the best he's ever felt.

 

We are in a very balanced place right now and I'm working on myself.

 

So ya.. I don't want it to last forever. In a perfect world Id be happy at home with my husband and he would be happy with his wife.

 

I think when we end the affair he will just find someone else. I don't intend to ever do that.

 

Wait.. So you mean this MM is not some poor victimized upstanding husband forced into cheating because his frigid, manipulative, wife won't give him enough sex??

 

You mean he would cheat anyway even if she gave him more sex because he cheats just because he can? Just because the opportunity is there?

 

That Is Amazing. I was becoming convinced that all marital dysfunction must somehow stem from the wife. Glad you cleared that up.

[AutumnMoon]

What about your husband? How is your sexual connection? I know you've said he's away quite a bit for work, but how are things with you two?

 

My husband doesn't work away the entire year, he'll be home again soon for a few weeks. I have a high sex drive and so does he, its daily.. sometimes morning and night, sex isnt lacking when hes home.. and we get along ok.. We have stupid fights, that turn big and I do hate that.

 

I never argue with OM.

 

My husband doesn't like the same things sexually as me and I'm not as attracted to him. But I'm working on it.

[Owl]

My husband doesn't work away the entire year, he'll be home again soon for a few weeks. I have a high sex drive and so does he, its daily.. sometimes morning and night, sex isnt lacking when hes home.. and we get along ok.. We have stupid fights, that turn big and I do hate that.

 

I never argue with OM.

 

My husband doesn't like the same things sexually as me and I'm not as attracted to him. But I'm working on it.

 

Non sequiter.

 

Being with someone else will undermine any 'effort' you're putting forth towards rebuilding your attraction to him.

 

You can't do both successfully. (Ask your IC)

 

Investing in one relationship will automatically require you to withdrawl from the other.

 

This is why you need to CHOOSE which man to be with, and take action to secure that relationship, and end the relationship with the other.

[AutumnMoon]

I know you probably don't want to hear it from me, but it really sounds as if this whole thing is hurting you more than helping you. I don't think that you're a cold person, and I have to wonder if sooner or later it will all catch up to you, ever if no be else ever finds out.

You can hide the A, but you can't hide from yourself.

 

Yes it's not great for how I feel about myself when I'm all alone. I'm trying to deal with it, I never said I was 100 percent happy and I never said I wanted it to last forever.

[rumbleseat]

Yes it's not great for how I feel about myself when I'm all alone. I'm trying to deal with it, I never said I was 100 percent happy and I never said I wanted it to last forever.

 

 

I'm sorry for harping on it, but why are you doing this to yourself? Is this really who you are? If not, why put yourself through it? Aren't you worth more than feeing like this when you're all alone?

[AutumnMoon]

So SHE doesn't like sex that much with her H = big deal!

 

Then HE makes a conscious choice to cheat on her - that tells you more about his lack of character.

 

A real gem he is :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

He could get honest and divorce her - but he doesn't. He is with HER after all...

 

Ya.. He's with her because not only do they have two kids with her but he likes her, she's a nice person.

People keep saying this like I'm saying he would choose me or something over her or that I would want that..

 

 

We both want to stay with our current partners and have each other to fill in the gaps.... I'm not expecting him to leave his wife and don't think I'm better than her.

 

Me and him have a lot more I common, people other than us see that.. If we had met before having kids things would have been different but they are not and neither of us plan to change them.