When do you stop talking about it?

[katielee]

Sounds familiar... I'll look it up.

[ladydesigner]

katielee our situation sounds very much like yours but switched. My WH cheated first then I had a RA which I never disclosed until this last A my WH had. I felt much like you I felt instant remorse and wanted to do anything to help him even though I was also dealing with his A discovery.

 

I do not think my WH felt the same kind of remorse I felt or did not show it the way I would have liked him to. This is where we have a lot of problems. I feel my WH handled the ending of his A cowardly, selfishly, and cruelly.

 

Maybe it is the differences in how you both have healed each other that is bothering you so much. I know it is a big issue for me.

[Confused48]

Katie, have you read "Jacob's Letter?"

 

I think you mean Joseph's letter.

[katielee]

ok, my own version of Joseph's letter - I'll give to him tomorrow:

 

I know you wish this had never happened or that is would just go away. I understand that no one wants to have a mistake thrown in their face repeatedly.

I can see in your eyes that you wish I could see how unimportant those women are to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously and thinking – doesn’t she see that I love HER?

But this is how it is for me: you were there. You have ALL the pieces of the puzzle. I had to find most of the pieces myself and put them together to form some sort of puzzle that makes sense in my head. I have NO IDEA if I have every puzzle piece and that is why I ask questions. It is also common for trauma victims to ask the same questions and occasionally talk about the event that caused them so much grief. I need to know more about my life to try to determine if I am safe enough to stay in this relationship.

So, that is why I ask questions and want to talk about it. And that is why it’s unfair for you to think we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling in the past. The need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn’t come from any desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you and why else would I put myself through this? It would be easier to walk away. Or never talk about it again.

It would but I can’t and the reason is that I love you and that makes all the difference in the world.

I’m worth so much. You are worth so much. That is why it’s been nearly my full time job to heal myself from being a wayward spouse and a betrayed spouse. Nothing else is that important to me.

[katielee]

we had a great deep discussion last night - he is still very angry but I just let him go for it expressing himself. We both agreed the honorable thing would have been to divorce each other first....

we ended thinking maybe we are together because we just had to wait til the other one came to their senses....

We have MC tonight..

 

today we were supposed to have our picture taken in the paper. It was a beautiful one of us taken at an event. They decided to include pics of other people, which was fine.. but then I look in the sporting section and there's OW1's son... getting some award. Nice...

 

It's like God is trying to tell me something but I dont' know what.

[BetrayedH]

we had a great deep discussion last night - he is still very angry but I just let him go for it expressing himself. We both agreed the honorable thing would have been to divorce each other first....

we ended thinking maybe we are together because we just had to wait til the other one came to their senses....

We have MC tonight..

 

today we were supposed to have our picture taken in the paper. It was a beautiful one of us taken at an event. They decided to include pics of other people, which was fine.. but then I look in the sporting section and there's OW1's son... getting some award. Nice...

 

It's like God is trying to tell me something but I dont' know what.

 

Let us know how MC goes tonight. Sounds like communication is starting to open up ??

[katielee]

Sounds like communication is starting to open up ??

 

yes I think so.

 

I hate HATE triggering though. I'm too tired for this crap all the time.

[BetrayedH]

yes I think so.

 

I hate HATE triggering though. I'm too tired for this crap all the time.

 

You've mentioned triggers a lot of times. I know your H doesn't think moving would help. I really disagree. What are the chances of you raising this issue again? If I recall correctly, you're financially stable enough to do it and not really tied to this community.

[katielee]

It will be brought up tonight at MC. Along with a suggestion that we solve this as a team...,,

[katielee]

Him; we could live with this, ignore it, separate, divorce, etcetera to solve this problem of you triggering over the OW.

Me: I have to honor myself.

Him; why do you always say that. It's all about you. We need to do what's best for "us" marriage is give and take.

Me: I've given enough. No more sacrificing...,,

Me (thinking) my mentAl health is worth more than this marriage..,,,,

Me: I hate the fact that you're worth it. This would be a lot easier if you were a dick..

[AlwaysGrowing]

If only you could get him to see....MOVING is about US.

 

Its about, both of you being vulnerable to the other (trusting), that you will both be okay with moving. That you both are worth moving for. That US is the most important commodity we have.

 

A time to bond....really bond....over something positive...over something that is being given from a place of love....from of place of "I choose you".

[katielee]

unfortunately, our MC does not agree with the moving thing...

 

If I could just get over this it would be a lot easier for everyone.

Hubby wants to live our lives without giving them any thought.

I cried in his arms last night - I said I didn't want this to be my life.

[beatcuff]

...I cried in his arms last night - I said I didn't want this to be my life.

 

finally, real emotion, not who is 'winning'.

 

part of IC/MC is looking in those dark areas we all want to avoid. only then can we make an informed decision.

[Yesterday]

finally, real emotion, not who is 'winning'.

 

part of IC/MC is looking in those dark areas we all want to avoid. only then can we make an informed decision.

 

I agree with Beatcuff, this is about real emotion not competing. Both of you talking and working this out. Moving is avoidance, and not a real solution.

 

Triggers are difficult for a BS. I find that those same triggers aren't as strong as they were 6 months ago. Time heals as long as you both work together, say "we will get through this". Sometimes when i get angry, my wife reminds me of just that.

 

This happened and will always be part of your life, yours and his... work through it and be stronger from it. Good luck.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Could you guys manage a short term lease on a condo somewhere, to try on "moving"? Find a furnished one, move stuff that matters to you. It would be a way for both of you to get what you want. And to see if it makes a difference.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I totally get you. If you know any of my story, you know that I had to stay where I am (my husbands business - no way to move) and xmom's parents and his BS's mother live here too. I am surrounded by triggers - my house can be a trigger at times, I drive by the church we went to together every day, we live in a lake where we used to boat together, and on and on. It is really hard to remove it all. My husbands xmow lives 10 minutes from us. Although she has left the office almost two years ago, sometimes she shows up just to "drop off clothes" for another coworker and it's always possible I could run into her although I haven't yet. My husbands office is a trigger because that's here they had sex a majority of the time.

 

It gets easier, but it doesn't go away completely - just sort of fades into a distant memory. My daughter just had an interaction with xmom's parents a few short weeks ago (I have another thread I started for advice on that).

 

I do understand why people move away - I really do. In many ways I wish we had been able to do that. On the flip side of things, I know I am a stronger person for having walked through all of it.

 

We aren't there yet, but we are getting there. We don't talk about it much anymore, but sometimes it does come up. We are doing the best we can.

 

Hang in there. There is nothing more difficult than trying to reconcile. I hope it works our for you but no matter what the outcome, you will know you have given it your very best shot.

 

Affairs suck.

[katielee]

Time heals as long as you both work together, say "we will get through this". .

 

I posed this question to one of my best friends - a LMHC - about how many triggers there are around town...

 

she replied: can you see your triggers as battle scars, Battles you guys have won?

 

but the trigger only bothers one spouse, the other is there for support.

He can cheer me on all I need him to but I have to run the marathon myself.

[Yesterday]

I posed this question to one of my best friends - a LMHC - about how many triggers there are around town...

 

she replied: can you see your triggers as battle scars, Battles you guys have won?

 

but the trigger only bothers one spouse, the other is there for support.

He can cheer me on all I need him to but I have to run the marathon myself.

 

Perhaps thinking of it as a relay. You both can get to carry and pass the baton to work through this.

[ClemsonTigers]

unfortunately, our MC does not agree with the moving thing...

 

As a counselor myself…I find this VERY distressing. I have had so much success over the years with couples struggling to recover and having them move away even a few miles to a new home that I find it reprehensible that any counselor would have the boldface ineptitude to recommend against it. This counselor isn't even bad enough to be neutral on the topic. FIRE HER/HIM.

 

I read through much of your thread and recommending/encouraging moving was my first thought.

 

My second. Stop talking about the his affairs when he doesn't want to. I like to encourage my clients to talk and read about marriage. To read and talk about how to be successful in marriage. To build and then cross better bridges in front of them versus discussing the blown up bridge behind them. There is no retreating. The goal being to have the affair(s) become as irrelevant as what you did and who you both dated prior to marriage. Happiness and contentment trump history.

 

Third thought…men and women are different. Men don't discuss their failures as readily as women, but they may when THEY are ready to talk about it and it's their idea. A man must be relaxed and have time to burn. A reflective setting like a picnic table in a park or in a canoe fishing in the middle of a lake might be the most opportune time. However, I find it happens most often when getting them involved with helping other couples with their problems. It triggers the "fix it" within every guy. Which is why I encourage my clients to participate in marriage recovery groups or just marriage groups at their local churches or even online in some forums (though be careful as there is a larger ratio of mentally ill and/or personality defective persons posting on these forums than you'll find in the general population let alone at your local church). Far too often I find my infidelity couples way too isolated from family and friends. Sometimes that is necessary. Family and friends can be destructive or just discouraging to the task at hand. Sometime they simply don't understand. Getting into community with other couples at various stages of similar struggles can be very healthy. People thrive in community versus drowning in isolation.

Edited November 19, 2013 by ClemsonTigers

[katielee]

 

My second. Stop talking about the his affairs when he doesn't want to.

 

The goal being to have the affair(s) become as irrelevant as what you did and who you both dated prior to marriage. Happiness and contentment trump history.

 

 

Clemson - thank you for weighing in. I appreciate your moving suggestion, even to move to a different house would help.

 

Regarding your 2nd piece of advice: he'd love that. We would NEVER talk about it and he would get exactly what he wanted - cake eating without consequences. And I would sit here building resentment about not being able to tell him about my hurts.

 

the affairs will never become as irrelevant in your suggestion, not in my head. I will love him and respect him less for a long time. maybe forever.... that might be a "good enough" marriage though.. not sure.

 

I'm still not sure if I'm staying or leaving.

[ClemsonTigers]

Clemson - thank you for weighing in. I appreciate your moving suggestion, even to move to a different house would help.

 

Regarding your 2nd piece of advice: he'd love that. We would NEVER talk about it and he would get exactly what he wanted - cake eating without consequences. And I would sit here building resentment about not being able to tell him about my hurts.

 

the affairs will never become as irrelevant in your suggestion, not in my head. I will love him and respect him less for a long time. maybe forever.... that might be a "good enough" marriage though.. not sure.

 

I'm still not sure if I'm staying or leaving.

 

The best "consequence" you can actually give him is being a great loving wife that he's completely in love with. Once you two are both in love again with one another the history just kind of slides to the background. He may actually then regret what he did because the thought of having almost lost you will be overwhelming. He doesn't regret his revenge affair much right now as he still thinks he was entitled and you're negative behavior is feeding right into that. Unfair…perhaps. It sounds like he's not at good at owning his stuff as you are but what he says isn't as important as what he does. If I were counseling you two I'd be encouraging you to express your hurt by simply asking your husband to hug you. It's often being required to talk back that's the problem for guys….telling him what he can do to offer you support versus open ended questions and having to talk about it might be a resolution. Then again, that can take you down the "let's learn how to communicate" counseling rabbit hole that fails to accomplish anything.

 

You have a choice. Both of you actually. Your joint marital endurance through all this pain and turmoil CAN become your foundation going forward. Your "hurt" can either be a 16 lb ball and chain that you unwillingly drag behind you limping for the rest of your life OR an 2 lb. ball and chain that you pick up, embrace and carry forward with you.

 

Your husband would "love it", you say, then give it to him. It sounds like you've both screwed up marriage to this point so it's time to learn and start doing better. Is he willing to work on making the marriage better? Might say something like I'll stop talking about the affair if you'll do x, y and z WITH ME to make things better going forward. Counseling (with a more competent counselor), moving, read or listen to a few good marriage books together, heck, even adding a date night once a week.

[katielee]

Clemson - I have no idea what to think about your advice.

 

I am a loving wife most of the time....

 

the 16 lb ball I lug around with me -there is no way I can see dropping it unless I drop him. not sure why.

 

I don't trust him or feel safe. Wondering if that'll ever change.... i behave like I trust him and forgive him nearly every day. Our MC says feelings follow actions... they really don't because I've been doing this for a year.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Katielee,

 

I am both a FOW and a BS. Recovery takes a long time. Only you can determine what your threshold is, but I can honestly say that I now believe what the time frame is - 2 to 5 years. We are 4 years out from my Dday and 2 from his. It has been a very long road, but we are getting there.

 

It takes a very long time to begin to even breathe again normally.

 

If you trust your counselor and believe they have your best interests at heart, then keep working at it. If you really want recovery, it WILL come.

[road]

Clemson - thank you for weighing in. I appreciate your moving suggestion, even to move to a different house would help.

 

Regarding your 2nd piece of advice: he'd love that. We would NEVER talk about it and he would get exactly what he wanted - cake eating without consequences. And I would sit here building resentment about not being able to tell him about my hurts.

 

the affairs will never become as irrelevant in your suggestion, not in my head. I will love him and respect him less for a long time. maybe forever.... that might be a "good enough" marriage though.. not sure.

 

I'm still not sure if I'm staying or leaving.

 

 

Telling a BW everything about the affair is not cake eating.

 

 

Once everything has been told the only gain is to punish the WH.

[katielee]

Lilmiss- thank you!!! Needed to hear it!

 

Road- ah, if he would only have told me one thing. I had to find it all out on my own....