Author katielee Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) well which is it? does he still count it (shame on him), or not (then why bring it up). once again you are trying to 'win'. to the others --- really odd OP appears more upset H showed pictures of the children than equating rape with sex (a/k/a: a choice). The MC told him that he should never call what happened an affair. Not sure what hubby thinks now but he's never called it that again... So, once talked about, it can never be talked about again? We would NEVER tell someone who lost their leg in an accident or went through the holocaust to NOT talk about it. I don't get this.... So when I'm feeling down i just swallow it? No, i'm sharing my feelings, turning towards him, asking for help or a hug or a listen. This is why we're married, for crying out loud. Believe me, there is still hurt 1.5 years out from Dday, and mine was a double betrayal, and I saw him on top of OW#2. I am trying to be easy on myself with recovery. He is being understanding as he can be. IT was about this time after my affair that he embarked on his 4 month whore spree, so he is sympathetic. Believe me, the rape had to be dealt with with EMDR therapy.... so, it's not like I was never upset about it. Jeez. And Road - i'll define my own pain, thank you very much. Edited October 31, 2013 by katielee added more
beatcuff Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 The MC told him that he should never call what happened an affair. Not sure what hubby thinks now but he's never called it that again... So, once talked about, it can never be talked about again? ... talk about the actual incident (rape) no, talk all you need. talk about how he equated it with A --- well that was settled in MC: your words. if not then just end this, as you will never move forward. what he said was awful but if he 'saw the light' and apologized (assumed) and has not said it again (behavior corrected) the issue is over.
Author katielee Posted November 1, 2013 Author Posted November 1, 2013 Beat, we are settled on how to refer to the rape, I was referring to the affairs: I still need to express hurt and need clarity on some things... 1
beatcuff Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Beat, we are settled on how to refer to the rape... and yet you mentioned it in this thread. it seems that there a multiple issues and while each has been discussed none seem to have been 'settled'.
Author katielee Posted November 4, 2013 Author Posted November 4, 2013 I've actually barely discussed the rape. What I need help with is how to communicate my hurt regarding his affairs. Not sure everything can be "resolved." they can be worked through maybe, with lingering hurt.
beatcuff Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 re-read the entire thread and especially your responses. the answers are there, just not obvious. it appears you have a 'competitive' relationship. each is trying to 'win'. a good (business) deal is when both sides walk away satisfied. not that they won 'every point' or even more, rather its a deal 'they can live with'. otherwise resentment will spawn and build. if you really want a resolution, you can't change the past, so stop thinking 2 v 1 (A) and start thinking how do we move forward. until you do that (and looking at this thread you have not) you will never solve anything.
Author katielee Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 a good (business) deal is when both sides walk away satisfied. . wow, comparing marriage to a business relationship? Wow. I'll never "walk away satisfied" that my husband had affairs. An "I can live with this," maybe. We've been through trauma and moving forward takes great effort, ON BOTH SIDES! i'm so so tired of people saying, "just move forward, resolve it and then move forward," wow, so easy is it? How do you resolve without talking?
Clay Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 wow, comparing marriage to a business relationship? Wow. I'll never "walk away satisfied" that my husband had affairs. An "I can live with this," maybe. We've been through trauma and moving forward takes great effort, ON BOTH SIDES! i'm so so tired of people saying, "just move forward, resolve it and then move forward," wow, so easy is it? How do you resolve without talking? You are right unless two people are willing to talk and deal with the matter it wont be resolved. It will only continue to build further resentment and make any meaningful R difficult. Is there some way you can corner your H and find out why he is not willing to talk about it? Having your whole life turned upside down is never easy. I wished i could say I have never experienced it. I am sorry you are going through it now. Clay
Yesterday Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I've actually barely discussed the rape. What I need help with is how to communicate my hurt regarding his affairs. Not sure everything can be "resolved." they can be worked through maybe, with lingering hurt. The lingering hurt links to the need for talking. When we hurt, we want some resolution, talking becomes necessary. Not to hurt back, but some small crumb in hopes of healing. The talking may never stop, even for years, knowing this you should look to coming to some agreement on when talks can take place. In my situation, I know my WS is weary of my repeated discussions, she says she has no more information to give. My statements are repetitive, she is right but I need to speak when I hurt. I also know, she very much regrets what she did. That is a very important part of our R. For this reason, I try to limit our talking about her affair. We decided week-ends are for fun or relaxing so it is not brought up between Friday and Sunday. Once in a week or less. We are 11 months out, and she is in therapy. We do discuss the therapy the same day. I hope this helps, take care,
Author katielee Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 thank you yesterday. I'm going to ask for an appointment to talk to him on Saturday or Sunday morning, as that is when he prefers. My talking is not about any more details, which he fears, but just expressing hurt and asking about his feelings for me and what was going through his head when he said some of the stuff he did. 2
beatcuff Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 wow, comparing marriage to a business relationship? Wow. M=signed contract. the point is read the other threads. too many times the WS after a couple of years shouts "enough". if one gives up everything to make it work, it wont. i'm so so tired of people saying, "just move forward, resolve it and then move forward," wow, so easy is it? How do you resolve without talking? ...move forward? YES ...with him? this is what they mean by move forward --- make a decision ...easy? depends, the more time, the more children, the more shared friends the harder it is at some point either you R or D. if he is unwilling to discuss there is no R, unless you give up everything (go back to the top of the message). BTW really confused you have to make an appointment to talk with your H about M. now that sounds like a business relationship. 1
Author katielee Posted November 6, 2013 Author Posted November 6, 2013 BTW really confused you have to make an appointment to talk with your H about M. now that sounds like a business relationship. I know, right!
Clay Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 I know, right! Seriously??? That would really not work for me. You know if you can't get him to talk make him come to you. Change things. Be nice to him but don't put yourself out. I think I read on another site its call 180. It might help you get him to open up and come to you. Just a thought. I am sure this has to be tough on you. Clay
Author katielee Posted November 7, 2013 Author Posted November 7, 2013 I wrote this to him but after reading it many times I realize I wrote it to myself: I’m concerned that you consider our talks as a victim/punisher thing. Punishment is not something I want for our marriage. Using the story of when you stole from the store as an example I thought was an insulting deflection. This wasn’t a child’s misdeed. It was a marital tsunami. Four times. People who have experienced trauma need to occasionally talk about it. I realize that I shouldn’t talk to you before bedtime. What happened is too big a thing for me to move forward from without having all my questions answered and clarity on some issues. It is such a big thing that I have worked almost full time to heal from this. I see you solving problems at work and doing everything you can for our children. What about work on us? I’m not interested in having a marriage where I must sacrifice or settle. Nor do I want that for you. I’ll never be ok with what happened. I guess it just weaves itself into a long married life that includes good times and bad times. I hope I can forgive what I haven’t forgiven yet. I hope I can forgive myself for staying in a relationship where I have been abused. I hope I can accept what happened, even just a little so I can have some peace in my life. The internal struggle I have inside my head is overwhelming at times. It is the loneliest feeling in the world.
whatatangledweb Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 wow, comparing marriage to a business relationship? Wow. I'll never "walk away satisfied" that my husband had affairs. An "I can live with this," maybe. We've been through trauma and moving forward takes great effort, ON BOTH SIDES! i'm so so tired of people saying, "just move forward, resolve it and then move forward," wow, so easy is it? How do you resolve without talking? You do need to talk about it. Otherwise it leads to resentments that will destroy the marriage. Talk about it as often as you need to. I learned the hard way that how I talked about his affair made a huge difference. Meaning if I let my emotions take off and let it go mean that he was hurt. I wasn't trying to hurt him. So I learned to talk about it in a kinder way..do you know what I mean ?
Author katielee Posted November 7, 2013 Author Posted November 7, 2013 whatatangled - yes, I do.... but even me bringing it up at all is difficult for him. I guess that's his issue. But that's why I said last night - can we meet Saturday or Sunday am to talk?
Author katielee Posted November 8, 2013 Author Posted November 8, 2013 ok, i bubbled over last night... we go to an event . I'm dressed to the nines and feeling good, a little worried I might run into either OW but feel happy to be there. At the end they brought some single girl up and about 20 guys (hubby too) went up to sing to her - "you've lost that loving feeling." I felt ok about it and then said when we got home, I don't know if I should be mad about that but wanted you to know I was ok with it. He screamed, "It was all an act for the show!" ok... then we went on to talk about the victim/punisher thing I was so concerned about - that he thinks talking is punishing him and I think it's being there for your spouse... and I'm talking about saying, "I had a struggle today about this," or "it really hurt when you said this." I also said I was so insulted by his stealing candy from the candy store analogy and being punished by his parents but they didn't keep mentioning it. I said you know, that was a deflection. What happened was a marital tsunami. Four times. He says, "I'm not going to say what I want to because things were done to me like this in the past by you." So I come downstairs and say you know, that was still another deflection. He said, "I know what I did was wrong, do we have to talk about it every night? me: no. him: thank you. (we talk on average once every 1.5 weeks about) I said, I'm trying to turn to you when I struggle. I don't understand how you see this as punishment. This is a very lonely feeling. I am haunted by some of the things that happened. him: you don't think I know that? I know about lonely. I learned in the army that you just have to be mentally tough and that's how I handled what you did. me: are you sure you've dealt with what I did? (thinking having two RA isn't really handling it) him: nothing.. then we went on to talk about how we think differently about the talking thing... the things is folks: I was the WS for two years. Every 1.5 weeks he would have a meltdown. I was there to hug him, hold his hand, apologize, etc... He was never specific like I am but just said he was hurting.... I took this as my job as the WS and was glad to do it. Still am. He says he will not bring up anything I did because it's his burden to carry. I said "I'd like to help him carry it." No, it's time to move on, he said, "although I better not say MOVE ON because that's not the right thing to say either. Everything I say you use against me so I'm not going to say anything.... " We are in MC but the communication stuff just doesn't seem to work for us. i'm trying to do my part. I must be failing miserably.
AlwaysGrowing Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Its obvious he never dealt with your affair in a healthy way. It looks like somewhere inside of him, he got his justice, so he is done. He got you to pay. So, let me get this straight, talking is punishing your partner, having two affairs in retaliation is not? Can he not see, it was his lack of communication that contributed to his choice to cheat,,,not once...but twice. Katie..as you know...all you can do is state how you want your new relationship to be. He is either in or he is not. You then have to decide if it works for you. Some couples can come together much stronger after an affair, others implode immediately, while others die off a slow death. 1
Author katielee Posted November 8, 2013 Author Posted November 8, 2013 Can he not see, it was his lack of communication that contributed to his choice to cheat,,,not once...but twice. . I dont think so. I keep trying to make the point that at exactly the same time out from his affairs, i'm trying to turn to him to talk about my struggles. I don't have a right to do angry things or act out. I'm trying to make a connection but he interprets it as punishment.
AlwaysGrowing Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Katie, I understand your need to have a stronger,healthier relationship post affairs. Any healthy person would.You just have to decide if it is something that is attainable in this relationship. I wish I could shake your husband, to see, that, if he would meet that need for you willingly.....you would need to discuss the affair less and less. AND it would set up a dynamic of sharing all ones thoughts/feelings openly. So, that in the future, the relationship would move into something deeper. And who wouldn't want that as a goal.
whatatangledweb Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 I dont think so. I keep trying to make the point that at exactly the same time out from his affairs, i'm trying to turn to him to talk about my struggles. I don't have a right to do angry things or act out. I'm trying to make a connection but he interprets it as punishment. I believe that your husband wants to forget it all and let it go. It seems in his mind you two are even. You cheated , he cheated twice in return. I am not saying this is right but there are people who have RA who don't feel they were in the wrong. That they had a right to the same thing that their spouse had. They have leveled the playing field and want to move past it. Your husband seems to be like that from what you have written. Have you ever asked him in MC if he felt guilty or remorse for cheating on you? Or asked did he feel he had a right to do it?
Author katielee Posted November 8, 2013 Author Posted November 8, 2013 tangled - yes, even last night he said he knew what he did was wrong but could we please stop talking about it.
Recommended Posts