Author katielee Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 velvette - I get what you're saying.... it just seems like I'm the one doing the bending all the time... I guess I feel that after two affairs, I shouldn't have to bend AT ALL. I suppose for reconciliation to work, I still have to do it.
velvette Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 velvette - I get what you're saying.... it just seems like I'm the one doing the bending all the time... I guess I feel that after two affairs, I shouldn't have to bend AT ALL. I suppose for reconciliation to work, I still have to do it. Hmmm....I would not be in a M where I was expected to be the only one doing bending, compromising etc. under any circumstance. I'm quite sure from talking to you that you wouldn't either. So, that's a pretty unreasonable expectation for your H. Its more of the no win thinking that you frequently exhibit. What is that all about really? Are you a perfectionist by any chance? Anywho, on the general issue of bending.....for a M to work both have to be giving 100% to the M realizing that each will fall short from time to time and being willing to nudge/support each other to stay on track. Course, you cant do that unless you know where you want to go and have mapped that out with each other in detail. It shouldn't be one person doing all the bending. Although, it may initially take one person to change courses in the M or to lead the way especially if you are in a long M with entrenched behavior patterns that don't work.
janedoe67 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 this I agree with.... The thing is, if we don't occasionally discuss our hurts or occasional triggers, we're right back where we started - conflict avoidance. Sounds reasonable. Do it when the sun is up.
BetrayedH Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 You're a bit of a pyro, aren't you? All just meant for comedic affect these days. 1
Journee Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I definitely think that this is complicated by the fact that you both have had affairs. He was obviously affected by your choices and in turn made some bad choices of his own. You both sound like you are resentful of one another. Resentments build through arguments and needs/requests/desires/concerns go unaddressed. Talking about these things IMO is so important. There is a reason why he answered the way he did. Something perhaps that made him put his BS hat on for a moment. Even with IC or MC in place people can still fall back into old communication habits. I think that moment when he asked "Why did you?" was a real honest moment for him. There is a reason for that question in that moment and just because it doesn't fit into whatever guideline of communication that you both are trying to maintain, doesn't take the importance of that moment away. Both of your pain and confusion matters. You both have been betrayed but he may feel that you drew first blood. Has he ever expressed any feeling like that to you?
Author katielee Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 journee - very much so. Things like, "you broke the vows first, what you did changed my personality, you had two so I got to have two (I was raped and early on he referred to it as my 2nd affair)" - he said those things to me in moments of defense, so I'm not sure he still means them. He says he doesn't but I wonder if in these moments where's he backed against the wall, these are the things he really DOES think. So if that was an important moment, what did his response mean?
leonine Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Katie, a lot of your posts make your marriage sound like a competition. You express concern about him "winning" or that you don't think he gives as much as you do (and you have the scorecard to prove it). I think a marriage is best when your spouse is your partner, not your adversary. My husband and I are competitive as anyone when it comes to games or that sort of thing, but when there's a problem that we need to face, we work together. After I confessed to my affair, we both decided that we still loved each other and wanted to make our marriage work. It was my job to do everything I could to make him feel safe and to prove myself trustworthy. For us, that meant me being completely honest and transparent and answering his questions with a minimum of defensiveness or deflection. It also meant for him more or less keeping the affair in a box and not using it as a bludgon. By that, I don't mean bottling up his feelings or not addressing triggers, but just keeping it separate from other issues (as a silly example, if we're arguing about who needs to empty the dishwasher, he doesn't bring up my affair as why I should do it). It's been about 18 months since d-day and we still talk about the affair now and then. Sometimes he brings it up and sometimes I do. I'm never made to feel that it's a punishment (though I still feel terrible about what I did). I had some legitimate issues with his behaviour towards me before the affair. He has addressed these concerns and we continue to work together to make our marriage what we both want it to be. A partnership between equals who are together because we love each other and because our lives are significantly improved by our union. You both have to be on the same page to get to that point. You also both have to be willing to, at least on some level, put the past in the past while still acknowledging that painful scars remain.
RightThere Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 journee - very much so. Things like, "you broke the vows first, what you did changed my personality, you had two so I got to have two (I was raped and early on he referred to it as my 2nd affair)" - he said those things to me in moments of defense, so I'm not sure he still means them. He says he doesn't but I wonder if in these moments where's he backed against the wall, these are the things he really DOES think. So if that was an important moment, what did his response mean? Wow. Some things that get said, you cannot get over them. Ever.
Confused48 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I am very late to this thread and have only read a bit of it so disregard this if you wish. I have read and experienced that the need to keep talking about it often comes from still feeling unsafe. Feeling it could happen again. Just bc your WS is truly remorseful does not mean you are safe. You have to see internal changes in the WS. Fixing what was broken in WS that made WS think that the A was an ok idea. That takes time. 1
Author katielee Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 Unsafe? I have had to work very hard at not feeling that if I make any mistske, lll be punished. I have had to work very hard at felling ok that he works 1 block away from OW1....
Journee Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I just want to take a minute and say that I am very sorry that you were raped. I know how unbelievably painful that is. I want to reply to you when I have a little more time. Dinner is on the stove right now so I am just jumping in and out. Rape is not an affair and ...ugh. my God. Just wanted to give you a hug ((((Katie))))
leonine Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 you had two so I got to have two (I was raped and early on he referred to it as my 2nd affair)" Wow, that's...ugly...
Confused48 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Unsafe? I have had to work very hard at not feeling that if I make any mistske, lll be punished. I have had to work very hard at felling ok that he works 1 block away from OW1.... Well that is terrible. Of course you can't feel safe. Of course you are going to be thinking about it and need to talk about it. I hope your situation improves.
road Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 maybe in your head. In mine it's a dealbreaker. Your WH, repeatedly putting his hot dog in the OW's hot dog bun is not a deal breaker. Yet your WH showing the OW pictures of his kids to the OW is a deal breaker. I do not know whether to ROTFALMAO. Or to think how warped you are.
road Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Unsafe? I have had to work very hard at not feeling that if I make any mistske, lll be punished. I have had to work very hard at felling ok that he works 1 block away from OW1.... Many a marriage has not recovered because the need to move far away from the AP is needed for the BS to feel safe. It is a must that you and your WH move far away from the OW.
BetrayedH Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Unsafe? I have had to work very hard at not feeling that if I make any mistske, lll be punished. I have had to work very hard at felling ok that he works 1 block away from OW1.... Yep, that's because there's still dirt under the rug. I still think you need to move. 1
Journee Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 journee - very much so. Things like, "you broke the vows first, what you did changed my personality, you had two so I got to have two (I was raped and early on he referred to it as my 2nd affair)" - he said those things to me in moments of defense, so I'm not sure he still means them. He says he doesn't but I wonder if in these moments where's he backed against the wall, these are the things he really DOES think. So if that was an important moment, what did his response mean? What I meant was that he seems to hold some resentment about your A (being raped is not an A and I hope that this has been addressed with your H) that he feels that he is justified for his RA's? You two have a long road to haul as most of those in R do. Add in the RA and your assualt .....you have so much to get through. Have you been to IC about your assualt? Have you been able to really process things? I know for me my H was the only man I had ever trusted after my rape. His betrayals have been especially upsetting because of this. I hope you are able to talk about that if you are ready to.
Author katielee Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 Road- he didn't have sex, just making out and yes showing them a pic if our kids would bother me more... I have had EMDR to deal with rape trauma. MC set hubby straight on rape...,
ladydesigner Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 (((katielee))) I just want to give you hugs today because I think you need them sweetie! I am a madhatter who had a revenge affair and I am sorry your WH did that to you and also to do it again after you were raped I am in the same boat with both of us having had A's so I understand how hard R is in these situations. I am a sexual abuse survivor and was gang raped in high school. All of those past feelings sometimes intermingle with the infidelity because the feelings of shame and humiliation are the same. Please be kind to yourself. 1
road Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Road- he didn't have sex, just making out and yes showing them a pic if our kids would bother me more... I have had EMDR to deal with rape trauma. MC set hubby straight on rape..., Making out is a PA to me. When people make out it is to get turned on. Hands are not kept behind their backs. Mouths were open. The old joke the guy I dated last night was a half breed. A Half breed? Yes, half breed, he had Russian hands and Roman fingers. Still that is way worse then an OW seeing pictures of you kids. OW seeing a photo of them is still a non issue. Your other issues aside from the affair are separate issues. I hope you get a handle on them soon. Though they way you are handling the recovery from the affair shows that you MC is incompetent. It appears that as most MC's they only want to tell you what you want to hear so you keep paying for more sessions. Soon as a MC gets honest and tell their clients things they do not want to hear and or do they stop becoming paying clients.
AlwaysGrowing Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I tend to agree with those that say moving might give you the relief that you seek. It would remove OW from your life, be the grand gesture from your husband if you are someone who needs that, something to look forward to, a fresh start and something that you both can work towards as a team. 3
janedoe67 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Making out is a PA to me. When people make out it is to get turned on. Hands are not kept behind their backs. Mouths were open. The old joke the guy I dated last night was a half breed. A Half breed? Yes, half breed, he had Russian hands and Roman fingers. Still that is way worse then an OW seeing pictures of you kids. OW seeing a photo of them is still a non issue. Your other issues aside from the affair are separate issues. I hope you get a handle on them soon. Though they way you are handling the recovery from the affair shows that you MC is incompetent. It appears that as most MC's they only want to tell you what you want to hear so you keep paying for more sessions. Soon as a MC gets honest and tell their clients things they do not want to hear and or do they stop becoming paying clients. It is my feeling that people are entitled to their own perspective of their own pain. If the picture hurts katie more, then it hurts her more. Just because YOU don't think it should matter as much is irrelevant. Just like those dingbats who think an affair obviously hurts everyone worse than losing a child. It is not my place to quantify OTHER PEOPLE's pain.
road Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 It is my feeling that people are entitled to their own perspective of their own pain. If the picture hurts katie more, then it hurts her more. Just because YOU don't think it should matter as much is irrelevant. Just like those dingbats who think an affair obviously hurts everyone worse than losing a child. It is not my place to quantify OTHER PEOPLE's pain. There is no sane reason for self flagellation. The OW even seeing the kids because her kids go to the same school is not going to bring harm to her kids. She is grasping at anything that she can to continue her to act hurt. Not saying BS's do not hurt. She is deliberately wallowing in the hurt. Taking hurt baths every day does not remove the hurt but just keeps her immersed in the hurt. Google emotional pain and secondary gain.
janedoe67 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 There is no sane reason for self flagellation. The OW even seeing the kids because her kids go to the same school is not going to bring harm to her kids. She is grasping at anything that she can to continue her to act hurt. Not saying BS's do not hurt. She is deliberately wallowing in the hurt. Taking hurt baths every day does not remove the hurt but just keeps her immersed in the hurt. Google emotional pain and secondary gain. And again I say...pain is subjective. You do now KNOW what hurts other people and how much. 1
beatcuff Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 ...MC set hubby straight on rape... well which is it? does he still count it (shame on him), or not (then why bring it up). once again you are trying to 'win'. to the others --- really odd OP appears more upset H showed pictures of the children than equating rape with sex (a/k/a: a choice).
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