Telling her she has acted disrespectfully

[organizedchaos]

"If you love someone set them free"...well...you speak as though you are somehow aware of some sort of "truth" about which I have yet to be "enlightened." I'm afraid that's never the case...this is always a matter of opinion...and of how we care to dress it up. You got your way, which I don't agree with, and I got mine.

 

The concept of "If you love someone set them free" can be understood in many ways. Nobody would disagree with the idea that "letting go" is essential. But "setting someone free" may mean RESPECTING them (and you) enough to walk away knowing that they still see you as a human being, knowing what just happened (maybe even why it happened), that there is no chance of reconciliation, and being clear about that (or clear that you aren't sure about it).

 

LS is full of people who have been completely blanked by their exes, ignored, left wondering and have that "inability to move on". They have not been "set free" as you put it, they are actually "trapped" in a prison of wondering what went wrong, if they have a chance at reconciliation, if they did something wrong, if they are hated. Is leaving someone in that sort of place really "setting them free"...I'm not sure about that?

 

I'm not saying we should hold court with our exes daily and maintain contact for the sake of it. Not at all. But there is a difference between that and a respectful, humane ending (we are always told that healthy relationships involve communication and it isn't so hard to extend that to suggest that so should healthy ENDINGS).

 

And anyhow, in this case we are talking about an ex just completely ignoring a question like "Hey...I still feel for you, do you think we might still have a shot?"...doesn't even dignify it with a simple "no" or "I'm not sure" or "I can't answer that."

 

(1) It doesn't mean you have NOT "set someone free" just because you BOTHERED to answer a question like that. A "no...I just don't feel like that" would certainly set me free a hell of a lot better than a non-response would. It is clear, unambiguous, and means what it means. I also don't feel like I'm not even worth responding to...like I'm sub-human.

 

(2) By ignoring the question, you have actually created a hell of a lot more uncertainty than you would have done had you simply answered "no." What does a non-response mean? No? Not sure? That she hates me? That I'm not worth even responding to? That she's laughing at me? The non-response is NOT kinder...in this thread the OP is hurt, confused, and angry BECAUSE of the non-response...BECAUSE it makes him feel sub-human. He may have been hurt by a "no"...but not in the same way.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that each person is responsible for their own post breakup care. But I do not see completely ignoring another person in this way as part of a healthy, respectful breakup...which CAN and DOES exist and we should advocate. I know you're part of the "strict NC brigade" aspiring...but yours ain't the only religion.

 

Because she probably figures engaging you and telling you what you don't want to hear will only lead to a lot of dramatic back and forth texts. So she'd rather avoid that drama, ignore and figures you'd get the hint. Her non answer is your answer.

[aybc123]

The only reason i said that it seems she doesn't care is because I know she kept in contact with her previous ex from a less serious relationship. And that initially he acted in a similar way trying to get her back etc but she never cut him off.

 

I think after a few months he must've gotten over it and them just been friends again because if we were spooning or something and she got a text she'd always just open up her phone and reply and she did the same if the text was from him knowing i could read the whole convo over her shoulder if i'd wanted to so i never felt threatened. Plus he lived several hundred miles away and theyd only been together like 10 months and she told me she broke up with him because she didn't/hadnt ever loved him and it'd been a rebound from a previous serious relationship.

 

So if there's this guy that she never loved and was with for a shorter time etc that she didnt cut off it says something about how low on the totem pole of ****s she's giving about people that I do.

 

Im also split in my opinion of the discussion that seems to have taken place here. I agree that I really hate the the way people think relationships are transactional, respect, caring etc are not contractual obligations to just suddenly be severed, at the very least the person is still a person and deserves the minimum respect that all people, even strangers, do. I also think that you can't "white fang" people, some people think it's noble to do so like they want to be hated by the person so they can move on. But this forum should be a clear indication that it doesnt work that way and it just ends up causing the dumpee more hurt

 

Having said that staying in close contact is a big mistake, both parties do need a significant of time apart to move on, but there's no reason that that time apart cannot be discussed beforehand so that both parties understand what's going on and feel more secure about it.

 

Anyway i think sambo77 pretty much summed up how I feel about the whole thing. I also don't think anyone ignores this kind of thing out of a kindness, I know the girl in question pretty well and knowing how much she hates conflict Im guessing ignoring me was far far easier for her to do than doing the right thing and giving me an honest but blunt answer. As for why i'd even been asking 6 weeks after I'd been dumped well we'd had a bit of a weird breakup/time of it to be honest (im sure everyone thinks they do) anyway when we broke up it had been fairly mutual and she couldn't have been anymore breadcrummy about it (basically said she loved me and wanted to be with me but wasnt healthy enough mentally to be in a relationship just then, which in hindsight turned out to be a bull**** 'it's not you it's me' excuse).

Edited October 24, 2013 by aybc123

[organizedchaos]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it was easier for her to remain in contact with someone in a less serious relationship was because it was less serious??? This isn't easy for her either, and engaging with you will only add more drama for both parties. So stop the comparisons with some other ex.

[aybc123]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it was easier for her to remain in contact with someone in a less serious relationship was because it was less serious??? This isn't easy for her either, and engaging with you will only add more drama for both parties. So stop the comparisons with some other ex.

 

No I hadnt thought of that really but it's hard to not just think of the negatives, and yeah i shouldnt compare. But i still dont think it's that, the last text i sent to her a few weeks ago after i was feeling a bit more serene about the whole thing where i apologised for blocking her etc, i said that the thought of her thinking badly of me was hurting me a lot.

 

I would've thought if she cared that she would've broken her silence if she realised the other person was hurting and thought she hated them. If only to say it's ok i forgive you but we really shouldnt talk im not gonna reply anymore. Maybe not i dunno.

Edited October 24, 2013 by aybc123

[sambo77]

If you dump someone, it is foolish for the dumpee to hope for reconciliation. You just got dumped. It's over. What is the dumper supposed to do, keep spelling it out over and over again? Seems pretty cruel to me.

 

If you can't interpret an ignoring as "leave me alone", I fail to see how that is the person doing the ignoring's problem. It s pretty clear. Failure to interpret it is... well, it's a bit dense, to be honest.

 

(1) Foolish to hope?...maybe. But perfectly normal and absolutely understandable (given you have just lost a hugely important affectionate bond that was integral to your well being). The very existence of LS should be all the evidence you need that most people DO hope for reconciliation in such circumstances. Heck, you can FEEL the hope screaming out at you when you hang out here. We aren't androids. We can pretend we don't hope if you like. We can label it foolish if you like. Call it whatever you like...but that don't change the fact that it happens...and everybody on here knows that deep down. You can't "instruct" people NOT to hope...that's...well...a bit dense to be honest.

 

(2) I didn't say that this needs to be a head-banging-against-brick-wall-time-and time-again sort of deal. Sure, repeatedly asking the same question is foolish. But that's not what I'm talking about...and we know that. Break ups are often a process...they aren't over and done with in one 5 minute communication (or worse, in a disappearing act)...they can sometimes play out over time. I'm saying we need to think about nurturing the ending with the same care, attention, and respect that we always preach about in relation to the beginning and the middle. What's wrong with that?

 

(3) So, if you can't interpret "ignoring" as leave me alone then that's your problem? Well, I would have interpreted my ex spitting in my face as her saying leave me alone...but that doesn't condone it.

 

If "ignoring" another's expression of vulnerability is an "acceptable" way of saying to another human being "leave me alone" or "no," then why, for example, does it feel so utterly dehumanising to just ignore, turn your back on, or look right through the beggar's request for your spare change as you walk down the street? If the beggar can't interpret that as a "no" then "screw him"...he's a bit dense.

 

But don't worry, he totally "gets" that it's a "no"...what he doesn't "get," what hurts, is why you felt so unable to regard him as another human being with feelings. You didn't have to give him any money...but you could still have given him your respect. But hey, not your problem...right? This is the sort of thinking that's eroding all elements of care and respect from the world. You're advocating that we should "expect a lack of respect" from each other.

 

It isn't the fact that we don't GET the message ignoring sends out...it's the fact that this "method of delivery" is just about the most degrading response to an expression of vulnerability there is. The fact is, we, as people, are grossly underprepared to deal with (a) being the cause of pain in another (which is inevitable), and (b) being compassionate to others even if it means it's uncomfortable for us. We have no idea how to do it...we are inept at it...and so we avoid it at all costs.

[sambo77]

Because she probably figures engaging you and telling you what you don't want to hear will only lead to a lot of dramatic back and forth texts. So she'd rather avoid that drama, ignore and figures you'd get the hint. Her non answer is your answer.

 

Put differently, she is scared of, and predicts that she will be uncomfortable with, telling you the truth. It's easier for her.

 

Sure you'll get the hint. And get the added bonus of feeling like a non-entity to boot.

[reddragon588]

(1) Foolish to hope?...maybe. But perfectly normal and absolutely understandable (given you have just lost a hugely important affectionate bond that was integral to your well being). The very existence of LS should be all the evidence you need that most people DO hope for reconciliation in such circumstances. Heck, you can FEEL the hope screaming out at you when you hang out here. We aren't androids. We can pretend we don't hope if you like. We can label it foolish if you like. Call it whatever you like...but that don't change the fact that it happens...and everybody on here knows that deep down. You can't "instruct" people NOT to hope...that's...well...a bit dense to be honest.

 

It's natural to have that hope sure. It's foolish to hold onto it.

[aybc123]

the homeless person analogy seems like a good one

 

in one it's a stranger asking you for change which you either dont have or dont want to give.

 

in another it's a person you probably care about but not enough anymore asking you for love which you dont have or dont want to give.

 

Some people ignore the homeless person because it's easier and less awkward, some people look them in the eye and say 'sorry i don't have any change'. Some people ignore the ex because it's easier and less awkward and some people say 'sorry it's over'.

 

In both cases pressing the issue or getting angry as the homeless dude or the ex is just going to make the person you're asking angry and even less likely to give you what you want, even if they did act badly telling them so is just going to make them feel vindicated in their decision to do so and care even less.

 

But I'm pretty sure if i had instead texted her 'I just wanted say, I'm short £2 for a taxi could you spare some change?' rather than 'I just wanted to say, I still love you is there any way we can work this out?' Then she would probably have replied..

Edited October 24, 2013 by aybc123

[sambo77]

It's natural to have that hope sure. It's foolish to hold onto it.

 

RD...nobody WANTS to hold onto hope. Believe me, if I could click my fingers and no longer hold out any hope of reconciliation I'd do it now. And so would most of us. But what we'd be doing is magically bypassing an essential emotional process.

 

You're missing the point. Letting go of hope is essentially the essence of the grief process, where we undergo the GRADUAL death of our hopes and dreams in relation to the person we have lost. Our mind slowly disentangles us from them.

 

But this is a PROCESS. It is a process that we CANNOT and SHOULD NOT bypass, shortcut, or skirt around. We will gradually relinquish our hopes over time and a myriad of complicated factors will play a role in how long that takes and how bumpy a ride it is for us.

 

Trying to "force" ourselves or (worse still) pressure or convince each other into releasing hope before it is ready isn't always the best way you know. I read a lot of posts on here where people are bludgeoned into feeling pathetic because they clearly still haven't given up hope. It's like they should feel bad because they aren't out of the holding onto hope phase yet.

 

It's easy to sit there, having finally released your hope (however long it took), to suggest to others that it was your turning point and that's what they therefore have to do to get better. And that they must release hope and stop being so silly or foolish. That's probably true. But that's like telling a clinically depressed person to "cheer up."

 

Expecting the release of hope to happen abruptly, according to some sort of rule book, or without a degree of bargaining, searching, desperation or quest for understanding on the part of the individual concerned is not really (a) recognising that they are human, or (b) considering their personal growth. We grow by releasing the hope and going through our grief...but you have to be sensitive enough to realise that each person's way of grieving is highly personal and they need to go through it in their own way. It's their journey...and there's no cook book for how best to go through it. There may be a significant and important reason why some are hanging on to hope for a bit longer than others.

 

While I think this place is awesome, I think it's dangerous to stir up a discourse (and that's all it is) that leads people to believe there's a way they "ought" to be grieving. Like they gotta let hope go NOW or they're a fool. Like they should expect to be disrespected by their ex. Like they should feel foolish because they dared to believe their ex would respond to a simple query about whether another chance is possible in a reasonably respectful way. Like NC is a religion. And so on and so forth. Sometimes it's cooler just to hold people's hand while they go through ***** their way. So...therapist as opposed to agony aunt.

[Kate9292]

Because it's standing up for myself rather than letting her treat me like **** and get away with it? By your logic noone should ever tell anyone they've done something wrong because they wont care, which isn't even nearly true.

 

These are guys who you spent 2-3 years in a relationship with? If so it just tells me what kind of person you are so not really relevant, i've never done anything like that when exes (including this ex when i broke up with her a year ago) have sent me clingy/ angry texts etc.

 

I know I acted pretty crappy in my last LTRs (including cheating). But honestly, if any of my exes sent me a tirade on how crappy I acted, I'd laugh it off. They honestly don't matter to me. Seriously, if it was some random guy on the street who told me exact same thing as exes, I'd probably take it more personally than if it was my ex. It's like they don't matter at all.

[Simon Phoenix]

I think as both of you grow further past this relationship you'll realize that they are doing you a favor by staying out of contact. aybc, the more emotional the relationship and the break, the more it hurts to maintain contact. sambo, it just seems like everything is way too raw and you are speaking out of emotion than logic.

 

They are doing you favors. Trust me. I thought my ex was mean for ignoring me at the early stages of our break, but it ended up helping me a ton over time. And at this point she'd talk to me whenever I wanted to -- I just don't want to right now and I'm not sure I'll ever want to. But space and time are much better healers than what both of you are striving for right now.

[sambo77]

Hmmm...you might be right Simon. It may be the case that I'll later see the value in what I currently see and feel is disrespectful. A bit like when I was 10 I could see the value in stuff I simply hated when I was 4 :-) Problem is, I couldn't be 10 when I was 4. So I had to wait until I was 10 to appreciate it...even though the 10 year olds at the time tried their best to convince me.

 

But I hope you're right.

[sambo77]

Like I said - can't teach those that don't understand. You can think me an uncaring android all you want - in the end, I know that's not true, and that's all that really matters.

 

Good luck in your break up and finding someone new and better.

 

I don't claim YOU to be an uncaring android, aspiring...sorry if that's how it came across. Wasn't meant to and I'm sure you aren't.

 

I'm only disagreeing with your position. I just don't think it's morally in line with my own views about care and respect during relationship endings.

 

But hey...this place is all about different perspectives I guess.

 

Teaching someone isn't about getting them to come around to your viewpoint...it's about facilitating them reaching their natural point of understanding. In a way, you have taught me loads here...you've allowed me to realise my viewpoint is currently the polar opposite of yours (and to think through why)...and that's a cool lesson.

[Simon Phoenix]

I don't claim YOU to be an uncaring android, aspiring...sorry if that's how it came across. Wasn't meant to and I'm sure you aren't.

 

I'm only disagreeing with your position. I just don't think it's morally in line with my own views about care and respect during relationship endings.

 

But hey...this place is all about different perspectives I guess.

 

Teaching someone isn't about getting them to come around to your viewpoint...it's about facilitating them reaching their natural point of understanding. In a way, you have taught me loads here...you've allowed me to realise my viewpoint is currently the polar opposite of yours (and to think through why)...and that's a cool lesson.

 

What's more caring though -- giving a clean (albeit blunt) break from not talking or staying in communication and giving the dumpee hope or confusing the fu*k out of them? I think staying in communication when you have no inclination to go back to them is much more disrespectful than letting them free. Just read this board for a few days and see the scattered carcasses and fallout from dumpers maintaining contact with dumpees and the torture that comes from that behavior.

 

And be honest, having a respectful end to the relationship isn't your main motivation for wanting to remain in contact. You can deny it if you want, but let's be real, you hope that communication will help fuel the hope you have and give you an avenue to get back. Your ex currently doesn't want that, so instead of staying in communication and confusing the living crap out of you, she's decided to go radio silent so there is no conflicting signals being given.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Simon Phoenix

[Sugarkane]

I only think it's easier for them to stay in NC because they don't ever have to face you and admit they were a total Ahole. And still look like a good person infront of their friends/family.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it was easier for her to remain in contact with someone in a less serious relationship was because it was less serious??? This isn't easy for her either, and engaging with you will only add more drama for both parties. So stop the comparisons with some other ex.

[aybc123]

I know I acted pretty crappy in my last LTRs (including cheating). But honestly, if any of my exes sent me a tirade on how crappy I acted, I'd laugh it off. They honestly don't matter to me. Seriously, if it was some random guy on the street who told me exact same thing as exes, I'd probably take it more personally than if it was my ex. It's like they don't matter at all.

 

Reminds me a little bit of a time i broke up with a girl because she started belittling her ex to me, i think she was trying to do it to please me but i was just like **** that this doesn't seem like a nice person. i also decided not to go on another date with one of the girls i've been seeing at the moment because she called the waiter a weirdo behind his back for bringing some ketchup over unannounced.

 

Point is people are different but although she has treated me ****tily now (and you guys can argue its a favour all you want and it may well be in the long run but i don't think it's an intentional favour) she really isnt the kind of person to laugh at and share someone else's misery because i hate that kind of behaviour and screen for it pretty hard whenever i start seeing someone.

 

At the moment though i agree that anything i say will just be used as vindication of her actions and to push me away even more because of the homeless guy effect.

 

And simon i think i remember discussing this with you before in another thread, but i agree with you essentially and am all for a clean break, but there are much better ways of starting it rather than doing so unannounced and without warning because of the reasons sambo77 has brought up and it making the person being ignored feel sub-human.

 

You can also say there's no relationship so dumpers can do whatever they want. But you can also say that someone can shoot someone in the head if they want because there's nothing stopping them, it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying there should be a law about ignoring people before someone suggests I am but just because there's no law/reprisal from doing a ****ty thing that hurts someone doesn't mean it's acceptable behaviour.

[Simon Phoenix]

And simon i think i remember discussing this with you before in another thread, but i agree with you essentially and am all for a clean break, but there are much better ways of starting it rather than doing so unannounced and without warning because of the reasons sambo77 has brought up and it making the person being ignored feel sub-human.

 

You can also say there's no relationship so dumpers can do whatever they want. But you can also say that someone can shoot someone in the head if they want because there's nothing stopping them, it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying there should be a law about ignoring people before someone suggests I am but just because there's no law/reprisal from doing a ****ty thing that hurts someone doesn't mean it's acceptable behaviour.

 

First of all, a break is a break. Doesn't really matter how it's done, the result is still the same. Honestly, her saying "I don't think we should talk anymore" wouldn't make you feel warm as fuzzy. You'd be just as pissed at that as you are now. And honestly, if you feel sub-human because another human won't talk to you, that reflects more on your low self-esteem than anything else. When someone doesn't talk to me, my first instinct (even with my ex) was "Fu*k them". It wasn't me hating myself. If you feel sub-human because your ex won't talk to you, that's you putting her on a pedestal.

 

As for the second part, comparing her not talking to you to shooting someone in the head is just ridiculous. Just a bad comparison and you should probably take a lap for it.

 

Honestly, you need to get to the point where her not talking to you doesn't make you emo depressed. You need to get to the point where you consider it to be her loss for not talking to you. If anything, her not talking to you hasn't exposed her for being a monster -- it's exposed you for being too reliant on another person for your own self-esteem and well-being.

 

I still think the whole underlying theme behind this whole thing is that you are looking for a crack in the window, a glimmer of hope, anything you think you can use to get her back. I think the whole "respect or disrespect" thing is a cover story to mask that. JMO.

[Sugarkane]

I get it when someone disrespects you and you go NC, it feels like you're being a doormat and letting them get away with it.

[aybc123]

First of all, a break is a break. Doesn't really matter how it's done, the result is still the same. Honestly, her saying "I don't think we should talk anymore" wouldn't make you feel warm as fuzzy. You'd be just as pissed at that as you are now. And honestly, if you feel sub-human because another human won't talk to you, that reflects more on your low self-esteem than anything else. When someone doesn't talk to me, my first instinct (even with my ex) was "Fu*k them". It wasn't me hating myself. If you feel sub-human because your ex won't talk to you, that's you putting her on a pedestal.

 

As for the second part, comparing her not talking to you to shooting someone in the head is just ridiculous. Just a bad comparison and you should probably take a lap for it.

 

Honestly, you need to get to the point where her not talking to you doesn't make you emo depressed. You need to get to the point where you consider it to be her loss for not talking to you. If anything, her not talking to you hasn't exposed her for being a monster -- it's exposed you for being too reliant on another person for your own self-esteem and well-being.

 

I still think the whole underlying theme behind this whole thing is that you are looking for a crack in the window, a glimmer of hope, anything you think you can use to get her back. I think the whole "respect or disrespect" thing is a cover story to mask that. JMO.

 

I disagree with the first line but other than that you're pretty much spot on. Also I think the "I don't think we should talk anymore" line you suggested is a bit of a straw man which yes would really only be marginally better than being ignored completely. The bit that hurts is the perceived value judgement attached to either that sentence or the silence "I dont think we should talk anymore, because I hate you" and "I dont think we should talk anymore, because we both need to move on" would have vastly different impacts on someone and its the confusion of not knowing which of those sentence endings applies to complete silence that is half the problem. Especially when someone is in a bad space anyway involving the negative thinking that comes with that. A me that was win a good space might well think 'well, she probably just wants some space for us both to move on, anyway screw it her loss. But someone reeling from losing a person they love and who unknowingly wasnt in a particularly good place anyway thinks 'oh my god shes not talking to me she must hate me and if she hates me i must be a piece of ****'.

 

 

Anyway, honestly you're right, I do have low self esteem at the moment and I did become/ am too reliant on another persons opinion of me, im not even sure when it happened, i certainly remember 6-9 months ago not feeling this way at all and i haven't felt this way in the past so sometime since then. Probably was when i focused all of my energy on helping her when she had a psychotic break over something that I did (even though the thing - dating someone else when we were broken up - wasn't actually a bad thing), looking for forgiveness or trying to make amends to her maybe turned into her opinion of me mattering too much. And it was only when that pillar was suddenly taken away that I actually noticed.

 

But, I can recognise that and admit it and am doing pretty much everything I can to work on being happy on my own again, but it takes time I think. Same with not getting emo depressed about it and seeing it as her loss, i completely agree, of course that's where I need to end up but it's not an overnight switch I can flip. I do actually feel a whole lot better than I did a month ago but it's probably not obvious on here because i'm using it as a place to vent and release all of my insecurity/ emoness about the situation rather than inflicting it on people IRL.

 

As for the last part, I actually am not sure about. On one hand yes obviously i do still want her back that's a bit of a no brainer, everyone on here in the first couple of months wants the person back whether they admit it or not, I loved her 6 weeks ago just like i loved her 2 years ago and I still do now, it's going to take time to fade just like it has with others in the past whether i was in the relationship when it faded (dumper) or out of it (dumpee). But, im not in the mindset that i'll never be happy with another person again and can see the light at the end of the tunnel in that respect.

 

So does that mean im using feeling hurt etc as a way to get back in the door? i honestly dont know, i really do feel disrespected and that it wasnt a good way to act and am angry about that, but we just established above that despite that I do still want her back, so who knows.

 

PS: Ok yeah poor analogy, it's like knocking a beer out of someones hand and not offering to buy them a new one. whatever. point is it's not great behaviour imo.

Edited October 25, 2013 by aybc123

[Simon Phoenix]

I'm not looking to dog you, so please don't take any of what I said as a personal insult. That being said, I really don't think any "I don't want to talk to you" line, no matter how sugarcoated it is, is something that would really make you feel better the way you think it does. I think that's wishful thinking and hope overriding logic. The end result, no matter how you are broken up with, is the same. Unless it's a completely mutual breakup, there's going to be anger and hurt feelings no matter how "nice" a break is. Because at the end of the day, you are still dumped.

 

I don't think there's a good way to break up with someone that will make the dumpee feel good. In fact, the more sugarcoated the break, the worse it is, because giving the dumpee false hope is extremely cruel.

 

I agree that she probably isn't cutting off contact because she feels it's altruistic. She probably wants to avoid awkwardness and confrontation first and foremost. But it doesn't mean that what she's doing is ultimately bad. I think you are still hurt by the whole situation and you are just latching on to this particular part of the hurt right now. In a month, you'll have moved on to some other part of the relationship/break to be sore toward. Which is normal.

 

Personally when I'm broken up with, the worse the breakup, the better. Because I can move on and direct any hate I have toward myself outward.

[aybc123]

yeah I know, dont worry about it I appreciate the honesty, you cant really hide from the cold hard objective truth. Plus like I said it's not really anything I didn't know, I wouldn't have joined this forum if I thought I was in a particularly good spot at the moment.

 

In a month, you'll have moved on to some other part of the relationship/break to be sore toward

 

Can't wait..

[sambo77]

What's more caring though -- giving a clean (albeit blunt) break from not talking or staying in communication and giving the dumpee hope or confusing the fu*k out of them? I think staying in communication when you have no inclination to go back to them is much more disrespectful than letting them free. Just read this board for a few days and see the scattered carcasses and fallout from dumpers maintaining contact with dumpees and the torture that comes from that behavior.

 

And be honest, having a respectful end to the relationship isn't your main motivation for wanting to remain in contact. You can deny it if you want, but let's be real, you hope that communication will help fuel the hope you have and give you an avenue to get back. Your ex currently doesn't want that, so instead of staying in communication and confusing the living crap out of you, she's decided to go radio silent so there is no conflicting signals being given.

 

Well, this is an interesting discussion Simon. I guess I'd (respectfully) make the following points in response...

 

(1) Your point above makes it seem like the only possible reason you can conceive of that I might have to think it disrespectful and uncaring to simply ignore someone when they ask you (once...not 50 times) "Hey...I still feel for you...do you think we have another shot here?" would be because I am emotionally raw and still want my ex back?

 

That's like saying if I don't agree with your viewpoint it therefore follows that I MUST have some sort of emotion going on that cloud me from seeing the "reality" here (there's no reality, this is always a matter of perspective). That sort of thinking is how indoctrination begins - "if you don't think like this you must be broken or deficient."

 

I could easily do the same thing to you and venture that the only reason you are staunchly refusing to recognise that it is disrespectful, inhumane, and uncaring to blank someone asking this question (as a one time occurence, remember...a million times is a different proposition) is because you are defending yourself from admitting that it's upsetting to think that humans can disregard each other in this way.

 

(2) But you'd be off the mark in this case. Sure, I am very hurt that my ex has gone radio silent and does not want me any more. I probably (no...definitely at this stage) still hope on some level that she might return (although, frankly, that's about as likely as me winning the nobel peace prize).

 

But that doesn't change what is essentially a logical issue about whether it should be thought of as morally acceptable (or not) to completely ignore a person who (ONE time only...after an ambiguous and unclear breakup) tells you they still feel for you and wonder if you feel there's another shot. Regardless of my emotional state now in relation to my ex, I cannot defend that as morally acceptable because it is dehumanising, disrespectful, and uncaring.

 

Sure, I may well get the message and end up in the same place if she ignores my question. But why does that suddenly make it morally acceptable? That's like saying (back to my beggar example) that whether I ignore him completely or explain to him that I don't have enough money to give him, the end result is the same (he gets jack *****)...so both courses of action are therefore equally acceptable.

 

But IMO they aren't from a moral perspective. One dehumanises him and one does not. One disrespects him and one does not. And one shows him that even though you can't give him what he wants you can still acknowledge him as a human being.

 

All I'm saying is that I can't morally justify such actions. Not saying staying in contact is desirable...I know it isn't. But that isn't really what we're talking about here.

[ConfusedHumanBeing]

Well, this is an interesting discussion Simon. I guess I'd (respectfully) make the following points in response...

 

(1) Your point above makes it seem like the only possible reason you can conceive of that I might have to think it disrespectful and uncaring to simply ignore someone when they ask you (once...not 50 times) "Hey...I still feel for you...do you think we have another shot here?" would be because I am emotionally raw and still want my ex back?

 

That's like saying if I don't agree with your viewpoint it therefore follows that I MUST have some sort of emotion going on that cloud me from seeing the "reality" here (there's no reality, this is always a matter of perspective). That sort of thinking is how indoctrination begins - "if you don't think like this you must be broken or deficient."

 

I could easily do the same thing to you and venture that the only reason you are staunchly refusing to recognise that it is disrespectful, inhumane, and uncaring to blank someone asking this question (as a one time occurence, remember...a million times is a different proposition) is because you are defending yourself from admitting that it's upsetting to think that humans can disregard each other in this way.

 

(2) But you'd be off the mark in this case. Sure, I am very hurt that my ex has gone radio silent and does not want me any more. I probably (no...definitely at this stage) still hope on some level that she might return (although, frankly, that's about as likely as me winning the nobel peace prize).

 

But that doesn't change what is essentially a logical issue about whether it should be thought of as morally acceptable (or not) to completely ignore a person who (ONE time only...after an ambiguous and unclear breakup) tells you they still feel for you and wonder if you feel there's another shot. Regardless of my emotional state now in relation to my ex, I cannot defend that as morally acceptable because it is dehumanising, disrespectful, and uncaring.

 

Sure, I may well get the message and end up in the same place if she ignores my question. But why does that suddenly make it morally acceptable? That's like saying (back to my beggar example) that whether I ignore him completely or explain to him that I don't have enough money to give him, the end result is the same (he gets jack *****)...so both courses of action are therefore equally acceptable.

 

But IMO they aren't from a moral perspective. One dehumanises him and one does not. One disrespects him and one does not. And one shows him that even though you can't give him what he wants you can still acknowledge him as a human being.

 

All I'm saying is that I can't morally justify such actions. Not saying staying in contact is desirable...I know it isn't. But that isn't really what we're talking about here.

 

.....what?

 

I've read all of your post on this site and your responses to Simon, and honestly dude, it just seems so reaching at this point. At the end of the day, your ex made the decision to leave. Why debate on the context of it (like you did above) rather than juts come to terms with everything?

 

I've seen Simon on here for the better part of a year. Simon and myself have seen countless stories on here and every person thinks that theirs is unique, special, or different. At the end of the day, they aren't. Sadly, yours isnt either. The way Simon gives advice is the best on here because he (and myself) dont like to sugar coat anything and just tell the truth. His "thought process" might be different than yours, but it doesnt make it wrong. Face the facts. I agree 1000 percent that keeping contact with your ex is just plain dumb. She went "radio silent" because she doesnt want that anymore. No matter what she tells you or whatever. She doesnt want that relationship anymore. The faster you recognize that and move forward, the better off you'll be.

[aybc123]

i still do agree with the above post, but dont want to get involved in the discussion again. I will add though that of the people i've spoken to irl about this in the first couple of weeks after it happened (a few close friends and my sisters) they all pretty much agreed unanimously that it was a pretty heartless and horrible thing to do, and i dont think they were just trying to make me feel better. So there's always a danger that because people get so jaded by being on a site like this that you kind of forget that most breakups aren't actually horror stories and maybe your opinion of what is ok and not ok changes.

 

since the thread was bumped though i am gonna ask, i've just been feeling progressively more angry over the last week or so. I know sending a well thought out email is a bad idea or telling her she did wrong etc but...

 

Is a short text just as bad? something like 'You seriously just going to ignore me? Fine.' or even just a 'Fine.'

 

I've read a lot of threads on the NC stuff now and it seems it only starts to help people when they can in their head turn around and walk the other way and that the other person knows that's what they're doing.

 

I guess my other motive is that noone finds a doormat attractive, and that's probably the last impression i gave. Simon i know that you didnt say anything when your ex tried to get you into trouble at work, but you did see her everyday, you blanking her let her know how not ok with what she did you were and it ate her up. If you'd worked at separate places and never seen each other do you think the effect would've been the same? Realistically she isn't back in town until late november and with christmas breaks etc we aren't going to be risking bumping into each other until january (which is quite good for me because it gives me plenty of time to move on and work on myself) but even then it's unlikely we'd see each other often enough to get across the point that a) it wasn't cool and b) im just fine now anyway thanks.

 

Disclaimer: I'm probably not going to send this text and someone is probably going to tell me it IS just as bad an idea, this is just a way to stop myself from doing it as before.

Edited October 25, 2013 by aybc123

[im_thedude]

I actually sent a text to my ex about a week ago, letting her know how I truly felt. I too had felt obligated because I didn't want the last contact she received from me to have been from me on my knees, still worshiping her.

 

Her treating me like trash after the relationship, the true realization of how bad she was during the relationship, her making me out to be a creep to her friends, and worst of all, her immediately getting with another guy - all these things culminated into me wanting to really let her know how I feel. So I sent a long text telling her off.

 

At first it felt good, and ultimately I'm glad that she knows how I feel, but I will tell you I'm pretty damn sure she didn't care what I had to say at the end of the day. It may have effected her greatly, I don't know.. I only got a small, meddling reply. The rest of that evening I wondered and wondered if it had any effect on her.

 

And looking back, it all seems so silly.