Dreamworld Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Well said! Where have you been? Mostly on the OW/OM and the Marriage/Infidelity forum. Thought I would try out the other sections too now that I am in a better state of mind. But yeah I have definitely been on the rollercoaster ride of the male/female friendship --Done FWB with mutual agreement that it was going to be one (like someone said here though, when one decides the sex has to stop, the friendship usually stops too) --married once, divorced --was an affair partner once which happened under the "guise of friendship" and the flirting went too far. It was the weakest loneliest and worst time in my life and I did it for the validation but I regret it. However, it made me much more aware of the importance of boundaries in a male/female friendship. So I'm definitely no saint but I'd like to think I know what I am talking about. Hope my words helped! 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 I might have 99 problems.....but these type of jerk job friendships aint one.. TFY
TheGuard13 Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Ironically, my girlfriend has a guy friend who just called her at 2:30 AM drunk and confessing his love. Hmm. 1
Kate9292 Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 I am not judging you, read my earlier replies to your comments. I am using your "electronic" words as examples to my point. Our points are different, no need to call me a control freak. This is an internet forum, simply having a healthy debate, not looking to judge you or tag you with a name. Look, I apologize if it offended you, but I don't get why you're so concerned with who has the control in the relation. Sounds like some kind of power play to me. THAT is certainly not what I call friendship. With my guy friends I completely don't care who has the control and I don't think they do either. They never said anything to me that would suggest they do anyway. We like each other companies, if one does nice thing to another of course another one enjoys it and one does too, knowing it made another one feel good. What's the problem?
ASG Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 So your point is, regardless of how attractive you are, or are not, your current male friends would have chosen to be friends with you? If you were uglier than Quasimodo when you met ALL of your male friends, they would have wanted to be your friend, period? There is no chance the initial attraction, was, well, physical attraction and a romantic interest? It was soley friends, and never more? acrosstheuniverse, well said on your follow up comments/posts! Yes. I have plenty of unattractive friends. The fact that they are makes no difference to our friendship. Why would a reverse situation make a difference?
ASG Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 BINGO! Just sayin' That was 17 years ago. SEVENTEEN! It has absolutely no bearing on our friendship now. If it did, as soon as he realised it was never going to happen, as I was seeing someone else, our "friendship" would have disappeared. But it didn't. It became stronger. And 17 years later here we are. We know each other's families, significant others, etc!
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Yes. I have plenty of unattractive friends. The fact that they are makes no difference to our friendship. Why would a reverse situation make a difference? Ive tried being friends with unattractive men. I didnt care what they looked like, but turns out they cared very much would I looked like. In comes that one sided thingy again.
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 That...is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. And this is LoveShack. That because I might have a feeling for a friend, I am suddenly not considered their friend anymore. Seriously, there is no logic whatsoever to that. Someone who wants to have sex with you is not your friend. This person wants to be your lover, fck buddy, etc. This is someone who wants to move to another level in the relationship, but at the moment they are settling.You want more, but they dont. You at best have a one sided friendship. Ive had to get so called friends out of my life because they were attempting to be my lover. Like ive said the truth comes out eventually.
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) Ironically, my girlfriend has a guy friend who just called her at 2:30 AM drunk and confessing his love. Hmm. And this is what male female friendships usually amount to One person has feelings, the other one doesnt. You have said that having feelings for a girl doesnt disqualify a man from being a friend. Since a man can have feelings for a woman and be her friend,, im sure you will not feel threatened or annoyed at your gfs orbiter, errr, friend! If it hadnt been love, it would have been a bootycall. According to you, he would still be a friend despite the sexual tension. Edited October 25, 2013 by hotpotato
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Umm...no. I did not say that that specific situation would equate to "friendship". At any point. But this situation is usually whats going on between a man and a woman. But most of the time this is what a male and female friendship is. One person wants to be friends. One of them is in love or wants sex. The other one doesnt. The latter sets the pace for the relationship. Which goes back to my point that most of the time men and women cant be friends. Most cases of male and female friends are cases of unrequited love or unrequited sexual feelings.
ASG Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 And this is what male female friendships usually amount to One person has feelings, the other one doesnt. You have said that having feelings for a girl doesnt disqualify a man from being a friend. Since a man can have feelings for a woman and be her friend,, im sure you will not feel threatened or annoyed at your gfs orbiter, errr, friend! If it hadnt been love, it would have been a bootycall. According to you, he would still be a friend despite the sexual tension. I think you're seeing this in wayyyy too black/white colours. Feeling attraction to someone does not equate to having feelings to someone. Also, that attraction might be passing. It might be a case of "uhhh HOT!" But then it kinda goes away, as soon as you realise it's not going to happen and you value the friendship. It doesn't have to be a long lasting thing and in most cases isn't. But sure, it happens. One party will have feelings and the other won't and the friendship will be unbalanced. But I'd wager that is a minority of cases.
thefooloftheyear Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 And this is what male female friendships usually amount to One person has feelings, the other one doesnt. You have said that having feelings for a girl doesnt disqualify a man from being a friend. Since a man can have feelings for a woman and be her friend,, im sure you will not feel threatened or annoyed at your gfs orbiter, errr, friend! If it hadnt been love, it would have been a bootycall. According to you, he would still be a friend despite the sexual tension. Gotta question those men...I don't think "real" men(I hate that characterization-but I dont have anything better to use) would ever put up with that garbage..Its all about dignity and self respect. Even if you have those feelings, you just dont beg and wait around like a dog for a crumb...Eff that shyt.. TFY
Author Babolat Posted October 25, 2013 Author Posted October 25, 2013 First comes the sexual tension. Then comes the jealousy, hurt, or even impatience when they learn you are dating or sexing someone else. If they were really a friend, it wouldnt matter. Plus, its unfair imo to have them around when we have different goals and expectations. This was a recent test for me with my very attractive 45 year old female friend. We have gotten very close over the pst 7 months. I have thought "Maybe" to dating, never thought about just F ing her. I do check her body out, but not in a way that I want to F her. Strangel, I never look at a woman and think "I want to F her" more "She has a nice body". We were recently out and she ended up talking to a guy. They exchanged #'s. He showed up at a festival we went to the next day. I was 100% OK with it, and actually happy for her. They paired off to talk near the end so I just left, texting her I was doing so. I cooled it off with the texting and meeting up, out of respect for what I thought was something developing between them. Ironically she has been texting me more and even recently and sent me a text stating she misses me and has forgotten what I look like (a joke).
Author Babolat Posted October 25, 2013 Author Posted October 25, 2013 Yes. I have plenty of unattractive friends. The fact that they are makes no difference to our friendship. Why would a reverse situation make a difference? I did not say if your friends are unattractive, I said if YOU were. I have no idea what your level of attractiveness is or if I would find you attractive. Doesn't matter for this thread. My question is, assuming you are attractive, or your male friends find you attractive, do you think, that ALL of them, who found you attractive, were simply interested in you, from the beginiing, in a friendship, and only a friendship?
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 I think you're seeing this in wayyyy too black/white colours. Feeling attraction to someone does not equate to having feelings to someone. Also, that attraction might be passing. It might be a case of "uhhh HOT!" But then it kinda goes away, as soon as you realise it's not going to happen and you value the friendship. It doesn't have to be a long lasting thing and in most cases isn't. But sure, it happens. One party will have feelings and the other won't and the friendship will be unbalanced. But I'd wager that is a minority of cases. Maybe those feelings are passing for you, but they arent for a lot or heck most men. I can look at a man and see his attractive. I wouldnt ever think of sexing him or dating him. Its not quite so easy for men. If you wait long enough, your male friends will start being more sexually aggressive or start professing their love. Id wager its most cases which is why most bfs dont like their gfs to have male friends.
Author Babolat Posted October 25, 2013 Author Posted October 25, 2013 Look, I apologize if it offended you, but I don't get why you're so concerned with who has the control in the relation. Sounds like some kind of power play to me. THAT is certainly not what I call friendship. With my guy friends I completely don't care who has the control and I don't think they do either. They never said anything to me that would suggest they do anyway. We like each other companies, if one does nice thing to another of course another one enjoys it and one does too, knowing it made another one feel good. What's the problem? Control, balance, whatever we agree to call it. In ALL relationships, friends, colleagues, marriages, family, there are control "struggles". The best ones are when it's 50/50, in my opinion. That's true friendship to me. If a male has expressed any kind of sexual, romantic, I want to F you intererest in a woman, to me, at that point, the balance/control is off. Same goes for if a woman expresses the same to a man. I do believe in the rare case that acrosstheuniverse explains, where firm boundaries are defined, the man gets it, decides to stay or go, sincerely, and all is well. I think that is the exception though. The man may say "I agree to your boundaries" for you, not for him, but in the back of his mind he knows, given the opportunity to do you, he would. And if the woman knows it to, and continue with the firendship, I think that is wrong.
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Gotta question those men...I don't think "real" men(I hate that characterization-but I dont have anything better to use) would ever put up with that garbage..Its all about dignity and self respect. Even if you have those feelings, you just dont beg and wait around like a dog for a crumb...Eff that shyt.. TFY Yes, and thats exactly why they are sometimes called betas. Im glad im a female who can see whats going on. "He wants my poon, but hes still my friend!" Nope, thats not me!
ASG Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Maybe those feelings are passing for you, but they arent for a lot or heck most men. I can look at a man and see his attractive. I wouldnt ever think of sexing him or dating him. Its not quite so easy for men. If you wait long enough, your male friends will start being more sexually aggressive or start professing their love. Id wager its most cases which is why most bfs dont like their gfs to have male friends. My experience is not like that at all. Most of my male friends had passing attraction to me but that's behind us. It happened when we first met and then went away as the relationship developed. Other male friends did not even have that attraction, for whatever reason. Also, a LOT of my male friends, if not most, are not single. So they already have someone they are attracted to/in love with. And I know their GFs/wives is almost every case.
Author Babolat Posted October 25, 2013 Author Posted October 25, 2013 Maybe those feelings are passing for you, but they arent for a lot or heck most men. I can look at a man and see his attractive. I wouldnt ever think of sexing him or dating him. Its not quite so easy for men. If you wait long enough, your male friends will start being more sexually aggressive or start professing their love. Id wager its most cases which is why most bfs dont like their gfs to have male friends. I think becoming friends, an attraction beyond friendship develops, for one, or for both, can happen, and does happen. So long as the parties are talking about this, agreeing to new boundaries, if necessary, making adjustments, if necessary, then all is good. There is a big difference between attraction, thinking about dating, and thinking about F-ing in my book. When one of the parties says "No", to anything, and the other party agrees to the "No", though in the back of their mind is hoping for a "Yes" one day, that's not a friendship. If one of the parties says No", and knows the other party is "just" agreeing to it, but is not sincere, and lets the friendship continue, than I think the first party is acting selfish and enjoys the attention, has the control if you will. Example, man meets woman, man lets her know he wants sex, woman says no, man may try a few more times, woman still says No, but I like our friendship. Man says OK, we will be friends. In whatever way, shape or form the woman knows the man is not sincere (flirts with her, says thinks, whatever he does that deliver the "I would F you message, sometimes in the guise of drinking "oh, I was tipsy or drunk so that does not count"), yet continues forward with the friendship, that to me is an issue.
ASG Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 I did not say if your friends are unattractive, I said if YOU were. I have no idea what your level of attractiveness is or if I would find you attractive. Doesn't matter for this thread. My question is, assuming you are attractive, or your male friends find you attractive, do you think, that ALL of them, who found you attractive, were simply interested in you, from the beginiing, in a friendship, and only a friendship? Yes. Like I said, a lot of my male friends are not single. And were not single when we met. We still developed a friendship. If my attractiveness had anything to do with it, I would suspect those guys would have disappeared long ago, when it became clear I was not and would not be interested at any point.
Author Babolat Posted October 25, 2013 Author Posted October 25, 2013 My experience is not like that at all. Most of my male friends had passing attraction to me but that's behind us. It happened when we first met and then went away as the relationship developed. Other male friends did not even have that attraction, for whatever reason. Also, a LOT of my male friends, if not most, are not single. So they already have someone they are attracted to/in love with. And I know their GFs/wives is almost every case. The single versus married does make a difference, and I agree with you on this. Most of your male friends had passing attraction, but that's behind us....how so? How do you know, with 100% condifence that attraction just "passed". Because they told you? because you have been friends for so long and it has not come back up? Not judgeing you at all, just curious to hear about this.
Author Babolat Posted October 25, 2013 Author Posted October 25, 2013 Yes. Like I said, a lot of my male friends are not single. And were not single when we met. We still developed a friendship. If my attractiveness had anything to do with it, I would suspect those guys would have disappeared long ago, when it became clear I was not and would not be interested at any point. I agree with you on this
ASG Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 The single versus married does make a difference, and I agree with you on this. Most of your male friends had passing attraction, but that's behind us....how so? How do you know, with 100% condifence that attraction just "passed". Because they told you? because you have been friends for so long and it has not come back up? Not judgeing you at all, just curious to hear about this. Because is some cases we've talked about it. Others because I noticed the change in the flirtation. I have had male friends profess their love. It basically made me stop reaching out to them and only seeing them in group situations that we were both invited to, and never one on one. Years passed. They moved on. We reconnected. And continued the friendship that had been interrupted. 1
hotpotato Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 This was a recent test for me with my very attractive 45 year old female friend. We have gotten very close over the pst 7 months. I have thought "Maybe" to dating, never thought about just F ing her. I do check her body out, but not in a way that I want to F her. Strangel, I never look at a woman and think "I want to F her" more "She has a nice body". We were recently out and she ended up talking to a guy. They exchanged #'s. He showed up at a festival we went to the next day. I was 100% OK with it, and actually happy for her. They paired off to talk near the end so I just left, texting her I was doing so. I cooled it off with the texting and meeting up, out of respect for what I thought was something developing between them. Ironically she has been texting me more and even recently and sent me a text stating she misses me and has forgotten what I look like (a joke). Sounds like she wanted you to orbit. Kudos to you for nor being an orbiter!
TheGuard13 Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 I just think people are way too hung up on labels, and putting people into one category at a time. This whole "you're not a friend if you feel this or that" argument is just ridiculous. Being a friend means having shared interests and experiences, an emotional connection (including love), a certain degree of loyalty, trust, being someone's support system and moral reflection/compass, etc. Add "I want to **** you" or "I would like to date you" to that, and those other things can still remain. Therefore, I believe friendship can exist regardless of feelings, affections, etc. You don't magically stop being a friend just because you'd like to be more. Unless you yourself choose not to be a friend because of that situation. Also, interestingly enough: Word History: A friend is a lover, literally. The relationship between Latin amcus "friend" and am "I love" is clear, as is the relationship between Greek philos "friend" and phile "I love." In English, though, we have to go back a millennium before we see the verb related to friend. At that time, frond, the Old English word for "friend," was simply the present participle of the verb fron, "to love." The Germanic root behind this verb is *fr-, which meant "to like, love, be friendly to." Closely linked to these concepts is that of "peace," and in fact Germanic made a noun from this root, *frithu-, meaning exactly that. Ultimately descended from this noun are the personal names Frederick, "peaceful ruler," and Siegfried, "victory peace." The root also shows up in the name of the Germanic deity Frigg, the goddess of love, who lives on today in the word Friday, "day of Frigg," from an ancient translation of Latin Veneris dis, "day of Venus."
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