How to avoid the friend zone by younger women?

[romeosadventure]

Hello, I'm a 45 year old guy that has come off a long term relationship about a year ago. I recently started "dating" again but need a bit of advice because I have found that I'm overall, attracted to younger women because they have less baggage, no kids, are more fun/outgoing, etc.

 

So far I've been out with women who are 22, 26, and 29. I'm a outgoing friendly guy and have no problem just striking up a conversation, etc. but am not generally "on the prowl".

 

When interested in a woman closer to my age, say 35 and above, I make it quite clear my intentions by strong flirting, touching, etc. I feel this best because if we have a date and it doesn't click, it's a lot easier going from date to friends than from friends to date!

 

However, when approaching younger women, say under 30, my understanding of the general rule for older guys is to go slowly and not be aggressive so you build trust, ease, etc. Otherwise, you easily get put in the "creepy old guy" zone! Unfortunately, this is the exact behavior (for lack of better term, "being a nice guy" that lands you smack into friend zone!)

 

So here lies my question. How is it best to make clear your intentions with a younger woman while not coming across as the creepy old guy? BTW, believe it or not, the 22 yr old is much more mature than girls in their 30's I've dated in the past.

 

Suggestions are welcomed!

[Philosoraptor]

Start off by telling her that when you were her age the world was in black and white and that she wasn't even born yet.

 

Sorry couldn't resist. Best you can do is just start a normal conversation like you'd do with anyone else then gauge their interest. If they have "why is this old guy talking to me" written on their face then let them walk off. If they seem genuinely interested then continue with your pursuit. But with an age gap like this you'd be best watching signs versus going aggressive, as you've stated.

[KathyM]

Most young women think older dudes are creepy if they try to flirt or hit on them. Most young women are not interested in being friends with much older dudes, let alone romantic partners. I counsel a guy your age that is obsessed with young 20 something women, and he keeps getting shot down and ended up getting fired from his job because of his hitting on women he worked with that considered him a creepy guy because of the age difference. I guess, perhaps, joining interest groups where there might be younger women, and being friendly but not obvious might be a possibility, and then you could gauge if there is a woman who is receptive to your friendliness. If she's receptive, then ask her if she wants to go out for a drink after the group ends for the day.

[theothersully]

We are dating the same girls here... for the same reasons. what I do is just tread lightly. Start off a little friendish. Next, try to graduate up to doing something really fun together. If she has an interest, it'll show up during the fun date. Then, just proceed normally. Don't think of her as a younger person. Just think of her as a person. It's all natural that way. See you at Ultra Music Festival in March! ha ha ha

 

Being creepy is 100% in your looks and your attitude. If you can get her thinking you are on the same level as her, while not looking like somebody's dad, you are in.

[theothersully]

Also, while starting off as friends, drop in subtle hints that you are interested in more. Women, by and large, are great at picking up on hints. We men miss them all the time, but they are great at it. If they pick up on the hints and react positively to them, you can move a little faster.

 

I just narrowly escaped the friend zone on a 23 yr old girl I've been dating on and off. Made sure mistakes and put myself into friend zone. Considering there are 3 guys chasing this girl right now, and I'm the oldest, it felt pretty good to not be friend zoned while the other side were. It was close though! I joined this site to see if there was anything was missing to help me get out of friend zone.

 

Moral of that story is... it's not easy to strike the balance... feel it out. It's different with every girl and every situation.

[carhill]

So here lies my question. How is it best to make clear your intentions with a younger woman while not coming across as the creepy old guy?

 

If the young lady finds you attractive, generally during your initial moments of interaction, approaching her in the customary manner will be as 'clear' as it is with contemporaries. IMO, I wouldn't change a thing, presuming your approach is/was successful over time with ladies of your own age.

[romeosadventure]

OK, I think I need to clarify something. My problem is not hitting on these women, it is how do I proceed once they go out with me. I have been out one on one with 6 girls under 30 in the last 3 months and still continue to go out. So it's not a question of me being creepy in their eyes INITIALLY because I'm fun and treat them with respect, etc. The question is how to transition to more than friends when in general most advice says to let the younger woman make the first move. Mind you, I already to somewhat flirty things like stroke their hair, etc, and they don't back away or seem offended. I even ask them if it's ok as I stroke their hair or rub their back, etc.

 

It's pretty much the kiss that I hesitate on, but I suppose as I just treat them as women and not as young women, the rules should be the same and I just go for it.

 

For those "girls" who have responded, I'm sure you'll never understand my situation, so probably best not to add your 2 cents as you're not open to the older/younger dating situation in the first place.

 

Thanks!

[Mascara]

The question is how to transition to more than friends.

 

That's what we're trying to tell you. You can't - because they're not interested in you That Way.

 

Mind you, I already to somewhat flirty things like stroke their hair, etc, and they don't back away or seem offended. I even ask them if it's ok as I stroke their hair or rub their back, etc

 

Yuck. I mean... just..... YUCK. I'm sure you don't mean it to come across as such, but this just makes you sound creepy.

[Janesays]

OK, I think I need to clarify something. My problem is not hitting on these women, it is how do I proceed once they go out with me. I have been out one on one with 6 girls under 30 in the last 3 months and still continue to go out. So it's not a question of me being creepy in their eyes INITIALLY because I'm fun and treat them with respect, etc. The question is how to transition to more than friends when in general most advice says to let the younger woman make the first move. Mind you, I already to somewhat flirty things like stroke their hair, etc, and they don't back away or seem offended. I even ask them if it's ok as I stroke their hair or rub their back, etc.

 

They are probably going out with you 'as friends' and likely see you as a Father figure. Likewise, when you do your 'flirty' moves, they are probably interpreting that as paternal. Like, "Oh, my Dad used to brush hair out of my eyes...he must see me as just a daughter-figure. How cute!"

 

When I was in my early 20's, that was immediately what I thought whenever an older man interacted with me on a friendly level. However, when they made it clear that their advances were sexual, as opposed to paternal, I recoiled from them so quickly and violently, I couldn't even be friends with them after that. Like I said before, they IMMEDIATELY got 'creep' labeled.

 

For all the older men who are INSISTING that young women regularly go for old guys....er....maybe on tv. Or if you're LOADED with money. But in real life?

 

Very, very rarely.

[romeosadventure]

I stated the reasons already why I prefer younger women and the least important is looks. Believe me, in another 20 years when you are bitter, divorced, and men hating, you'll understand. Until then, you'll just never get it. By the way, just tonight, spent the evening with some girls I met tonight from Spain in their late 20s early 30s and we had a great time...and insisted on paying for me!! (therefore not being a sugardaddy). They invited me to spain without me asking. Not to brag, but I must be doing something right!

[Janesays]

OH, I just thought of some actual, tangible advice!

 

OP, if you want to determine whether or not the 20-something you are currently hanging out with on a friendly level is open to some thing sexual with you....buy her a piece of jewelry.

 

No, not coffee. No, not a kooky bicycle helmet because you know she's an avid biker. No, not dinner. No, not ANYTHING that can be interpreted as a 'friend' gift.

 

You need to buy her jewelry.

 

I would say that vast majority of women know that men don't buy women jewelry unless they are interested in getting a piece. So you will be making your intentions 'clear' without crossing a physical boundary which might get you maced.

 

So buy her jewelry. If she accepts the gift, make your moves. If she refuses, she is NOT INTERESTED in you in that way.

Edited October 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[theothersully]

I stated the reasons already why I prefer younger women and the least important is looks. Believe me, in another 20 years when you are bitter, divorced, and men hating, you'll understand. Until then, you'll just never get it. By the way, just tonight, spent the evening with some girls I met tonight from Spain in their late 20s early 30s and we had a great time...and insisted on paying for me!! (therefore not being a sugardaddy). They invited me to spain without me asking. Not to brag, but I must be doing something right!

 

Whoa!!!! Same here! I have an invitation to Italy paid for by a pair of sisters... 22 and 18.

 

They want to show me their country after I took them on a camping trip and around nyc this summer.

[romeosadventure]

OH, I just thought of some actual, tangible advice!

 

You need to buy her jewelry.

 

I would say that vast majority of women know that men don't buy women jewelry unless they are interested in getting a piece. So you will be making your intentions 'clear' without crossing a physical boundary which might get you maced.

 

So buy her jewelry. If she accepts the gift, make your moves. If she refuses, she is NOT INTERESTED in you in that way.

 

Good idea!.....done it already! I bought a small Swarovski piece for one of my dates as she stopped by one of the shops when we were out. I took notice as to the things she was looking at and came back later and bought one. She was thrilled when I gave it to her and gave me a death grip hug......guess it's time to make a move! lol! Actually, I listen very carefully at what they are saying and just do the small things. One friend mentioned a type of dessert she likes so guess what, when she came for dinner several months later, I had it waiting. I think ANY woman would appreciate that!

Edited October 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[romeosadventure]

Whoa!!!! Same here! I have an invitation to Italy paid for by a pair of sisters... 22 and 18.

 

They want to show me their country after I took them on a camping trip and around nyc this summer.

 

Excellent! looks like WE are doing something right! By the way, yes if I found someone closer to my age with those same qualities, I wouldn't hesitate. Its just that it is so hard to find ones that don't have the same issues I mention, that by default they need to be younger.

[theothersully]

Excellent! looks like WE are doing something right! By the way, yes if I found someone closer to my age with those same qualities, I wouldn't hesitate. Its just that it is so hard to find ones that don't have the same issues I mention, that by default they need to be younger.

 

That's exactly it. It's these crabby, ultra negative, stick in a rut, boring types that seem to prevail at older ages. Apparently, they exist at younger ages too, but it's a lot less frequent.

[William]

As an advisory, due to a proliferation of off-topic and downright rude postings, this thread has found three members suspended, so moderation suggests that, if members have advice or suggestions for an older man pursuing a younger woman remaining outside of the 'friend zone', that they be provided in a topical and respectful manner. Thanks!

[RedRobin]

My advice is to seek out those with poor self esteem... pretend you care about her as a person. Use flattery, gifts... lie about your life plans or the people you are acquainted with and places you have traveled.

 

If she has few friends or doesnt get along well with her family.... thats some low hanging fruit right there.

 

Orbit until a life crisis comes along and do the whole 'here baby, I'm sure a back rub will make things all better'... then make your 'move'

 

It's not that tough... you know.... all the things other men do but women closer to your own age have figured out how to see through

[youaremysunshine]

Just to clarify, you don't think a 22 year old that would $@&$ a 45 year old doesn't have baggage, daddy issues perhaps?

 

I'm a young women and I'm often mature, polite respectful to older work colleges who are friendly because I view them as being somewhat asexual figures of authority, though I enjoy chatting with them.

 

You don't know what she is like in the club on a Saturday night, with her girlfriends. You don't know what her last relationships were like, they can be firey messes at this age. You don't know what her family situation is like.

 

Honestly if I hear one more guy say young girls are "uncomplicated" "fun" or "simple" I'm going to ask them if their ancient brain can recal women in their early 20s when they were that age and then multiply the crazy factor by 10

[youaremysunshine]

In order to give you sound advice on avoiding "the friend zone" e. i not $@&!ing these people, i need to know just what you feel you can offer a woman half your age, that she could not find in a man in her own age group and social circle.

 

Also I have to ask, you say women your age are often divorced, or have children which is unappealing to you.

 

Any divorces or kids yourself?

[nescafe1982]

The friend-zone doesn't exist. If a woman isn't attracted to you, she won't hook up with you regardless of approach. If she's decided she's not into it, an aggressive approach is creepy, and a placating approach comes off desperate.

 

I find the age difference of secondary concern, really... the only possible connection is that if you're 20 years older than the women you're pursuing, far fewer of those women are going to find you attractive mutually.

 

"Friend zone." Pshuh. I wish our society at large would stop boiling down women's attractions in this troubling way (not just OP but mankind).

[romeosadventure]

Just to clarify, you don't think a 22 year old that would $@&$ a 45 year old doesn't have baggage, daddy issues perhaps?

 

You don't know what she is like in the club on a Saturday night, with her girlfriends. You don't know what her last relationships were like, they can be firey messes at this age. You don't know what her family situation is like.

 

 

You sound like a mature younger woman by your post...that's a complement by the way... and I understand what you mean. However, with all due respect...sincerely... you're not a position to state what I know and what I don't know about this person. Fact of the matter is that I know all about her past boyfriends, how long they were, why they didn't work out, etc. I also know very well her family situation in quite high detail. I will give you one though, I don't know how she acts out at the clubs with her girlfriends, but she's not a huge partyer.

 

To answer your other question. I have never been married and don't have kids. It is a decision I made fairly early in life and at this point don't see it changing....and no, I'm not secretly George Clooney!

 

So back to the subject at hand. I think the best way to handle the situation is just to be up front with them from the beginning. That means I don't ask them to hang out, get together, chill, etc, etc, I ask them if they would like to go on a date. This way they are clear from the beginning and if they say no, then I know right away and if they say yes, then just treat it like any other date. How does that sound?

[William]

Members who wish to discuss the dynamics of the friendzone relevant to older/younger aged people dating and mating may do so here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/288549-consolidated-discussion-older-younger-woman-man-age-gap-dating

 

If there are any further suggestions regarding how to avoid the friendzone in this particular thread starter's circumstances, please share them here. Also, comments about moderation, regardless of type, are not topical. Our postings here are as advisories, not an invitation to discussion. Thanks!

[cif]

I think the best way to handle the situation is just to be up front with them from the beginning. That means I don't ask them to hang out, get together, chill, etc, etc, I ask them if they would like to go on a date. This way they are clear from the beginning and if they say no, then I know right away and if they say yes, then just treat it like any other date. How does that sound?

 

This sounds perfect.

[EasyHeart]

When interested in a woman closer to my age, say 35 and above, I make it quite clear my intentions by strong flirting, touching, etc. I feel this best because if we have a date and it doesn't click, it's a lot easier going from date to friends than from friends to date!

 

However, when approaching younger women, say under 30, my understanding of the general rule for older guys is to go slowly and not be aggressive so you build trust, ease, etc. Otherwise, you easily get put in the "creepy old guy" zone! Unfortunately, this is the exact behavior (for lack of better term, "being a nice guy" that lands you smack into friend zone!)

 

So here lies my question. How is it best to make clear your intentions with a younger woman while not coming across as the creepy old guy? BTW, believe it or not, the 22 yr old is much more mature than girls in their 30's I've dated in the past.

 

Suggestions are welcomed!

Your mistake is stereotyping women by age.

 

If a woman is interested, she's interested. It doesn't matter how old she is. If she's not interested, you're the creepy guy. If you're old and she's not interested, you're the creepy old guy.

 

Stop treating women as objects and treat them as individuals, and you'll never be friendzoned.

[ls32ssibm]

How to get with a 22 year old girl as a 45 year old man:

 

Step 1. Be rich.

 

Step 2. Sign up on sugardaddy.com

 

 

Otherwise, they will think it's creepy because it is. A 35+ year old is a different story, but you'll never get anything serious with a girl in her 20s when your closer to 50 than 30.