What Should I Make of This?

[lakerman34]

OP - all very interesting reading. Mutual rejection = why even go further than that? Like I said before - drama. I wouldn't put up with it. So what's your goal with this chick? Relationship? Hookup? It seems like a lot of time and effort to just keep spinning your wheels. But it is fun reading about, I give you that much, sir.

 

Haha. I laugh because a lot of people tell me that it's enjoyable to read about my encounters. I find that interesting because I just write it how I remember it.

 

I don't know why I keep on with this girl, honestly. I'm VERY good at dropping girls. My ex was probably the closest I've felt to love (wrote about her when I first started in this forum). We dated for 7-8 months, took me 2 months to get COMPLETELY over her. I didn't even seriously date THIS girl, and 8 months later, I'm still trying to get a date with her. It's puzzling to me too. And, I know if I put myself out there, I can get other prospects, but for some reason, I end up back on this girl.

 

I think I felt a closeness to her that I've never felt with a girl. I think our personalities REALLY complement each other, we are both very ambitious, want the same thing out of a relationship, on the attractiveness spectrum, we're about equal, we understand each other where most people have trouble understanding us, and we also have very similar (and also some very different interests). I think my unconscious keeps telling me that she's a fit. I could see myself being the best "me" with her around, even if it is just as a friend (but if I'm friendzoned, I probably wouldn't get the kind of respect I want from her, so I'd have to just stop talking to her).

 

I do have to say, during the time that we weren't talking to each other, I hooked up with 3 girls, and wouldn't be surprised if she hooked up with a couple of guys.

 

This Saturday or Sunday, come back to this thread, and I'll post what happened!!

 

Just promise me that y'are rooting for me!

[truth_seeker]

You’re lucky I don’t feel like working today.

 

Listen: Girls who like guys don’t repeatedly turn them down and give them vague answers or non-responses when they are asked out on dates. They just don’t. When a girl likes a guy and she truly has plans or can’t get together, she wants to make darn sure the guy knows he isn’t being blown off or ignored. For whatever reason, you don’t want to believe this. You want to think that she is different, and that these rejections mean that she likes you. I don’t get it.

 

For the record, I think you are very smart. It’s just that you like this girl so much that you can’t see through your fog. Yes, you got her naked on top of you. Eight months ago. And after that, she told you she did not want a relationship with you. Are you forgetting that part? Step into the present, please.

 

 

 

Um…being asked to do something and giving a vague answer, no times when you are available, making no effort to make the plans, or not responding at all is a rejection. A lot of girls do this because they feel uncomfortable saying no. So they vaguely say things like “sure, great, fine” and do not do anything to follow up on it, and hope the guy eventually gets the picture if they blow him off enough times.

 

So, let me count the ways she has rejected you, and I’m not even going to include all the times you posted about how she flat out told you that she doesn’t want a relationship with you:

 

From your September 14 post:

 

 

 

Newsflash: “I don’t think so” means “no.” It’s just a much less harsh “no.”

 

 

 

No reply = rejected.

 

From you September 28 post:

 

 

 

Again, “I don’t think so” means “No.”

 

“I’ll let you know” without ever letting you know = No.

 

No response = No.

 

 

 

This is classic avoidance behavior. “We’ll see,” getting offline without giving a response, etc….means no motivation at all to actually make the plans. How can you not see that? If she liked you, her response would have been to pick a date right then and there.

 

 

 

Again, “I don’t think so” means “No.”

 

Saying “Yeah, I would really like to [hang out]” without ever trying to make it happen means that she doesn’t really want to hang out with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, you have been chasing her so hard over the past six weeks that she’s probably completely forgotten about how you “rejected” her back in February.

 

She may well make you a one night stand, but you don’t seem to want that. How is that going to work for you? How much more time are you going to waste on these stupid games with her?

 

I'll leave you alone now...

 

Clia with the death blow.

[AlliceInWL]

First of all, it's refreshing to read posts from someone who 1) knows and uses correct grammar, and 2) is insightful about a real, complex dating situation. So thanks for that!

 

I read this thread and a little bit of the original thread that you linked. I have my own insights and opinions that mostly stem from the fact that this girl sounds a lot like me at 21 (I'm 26 now). So here are my thoughts. Hopefully, it will give you another perspective or validate your own, but in no way am I saying this is how it is. Just my personal thoughts.

 

To respond to the questions in your post, no I don't think you're friend-zoned. Yes, I do think you have a chance with this girl. And regarding how you should "play" this depends on a few things...

 

I'm assuming you are pursuing a long term, meaningful relationship with this girl. And if that's the case, I think you are on a good track. But there are some things I would be worried about. First off, I think it's great that you didn't have sex with her before. Some girls can be promiscuous for reasons they don't understand, like insecurity or a deficiency of love which causes them to desperately want to feel loved or accepted. For girls like this, coming off as confident, sure of themselves, and bitchy is common. It sounds like this girl fits in this category because 1) she initiated sex on the first date, but most of her actions show that she is a somewhat-believer in traditional male-female roles (e.g. men should pursue women), 2) she mentions that she is weird, which implies that she doesn't think she is normal (sign of insecurity), 3) rejects then actively pursues you, etc. All things that I have done myself in past relationships.

 

So, here are somethings I would be worried about.

• She is inconsistent. This could be because you were leaving for so long, but it's probably just because she doesn't know what she wants.
  
• It sounds like she is testing you, not for worthiness of sex, but for worthiness of a relationship. I am not a fan of testing potential partners, even though I have done it many times. Dating should be about being open, honest, and getting to know each other, not being manipulative to see if the other person does what you think he should do.
  
• Along with the testing, she sounds fairly immature. And I say fairly because she does sound like a smart, insightful person (much like yourself). But it also sounds like she doesn't have any solid values that she can lean on. Which can be good; I mean, she's figuring the world out with her own mind. But until she develops her own values and convictions, she's not going to be able to commit to another person.
  

 

Overall, I think the future of this relationship is going to have a lot of push and pull, mind games, and rejection followed by pursuit (in other words, not a mature relationship). But it sounds like you're up to the challenge. My advice to you would be to take a step back every once in a while and determine if you want to pursue her because she's what you want or because she's a challenge. If it's the former, keep pursuing and expect that she will continue to reject you at times until she's completely in love (which may never happen, even if she says it). If it's the latter, do both you and her a favor and find another challenge.

 

Ok, sorry for the novel of a response. I hope there's at least something in there you can use. And good luck.

[lakerman34]

First of all, it's refreshing to read posts from someone who 1) knows and uses correct grammar, and 2) is insightful about a real, complex dating situation. So thanks for that!

 

I read this thread and a little bit of the original thread that you linked. I have my own insights and opinions that mostly stem from the fact that this girl sounds a lot like me at 21 (I'm 26 now). So here are my thoughts. Hopefully, it will give you another perspective or validate your own, but in no way am I saying this is how it is. Just my personal thoughts.

 

To respond to the questions in your post, no I don't think you're friend-zoned. Yes, I do think you have a chance with this girl. And regarding how you should "play" this depends on a few things...

 

I'm assuming you are pursuing a long term, meaningful relationship with this girl. And if that's the case, I think you are on a good track. But there are some things I would be worried about. First off, I think it's great that you didn't have sex with her before. Some girls can be promiscuous for reasons they don't understand, like insecurity or a deficiency of love which causes them to desperately want to feel loved or accepted. For girls like this, coming off as confident, sure of themselves, and bitchy is common. It sounds like this girl fits in this category because 1) she initiated sex on the first date, but most of her actions show that she is a somewhat-believer in traditional male-female roles (e.g. men should pursue women), 2) she mentions that she is weird, which implies that she doesn't think she is normal (sign of insecurity), 3) rejects then actively pursues you, etc. All things that I have done myself in past relationships.

 

So, here are somethings I would be worried about.

• She is inconsistent. This could be because you were leaving for so long, but it's probably just because she doesn't know what she wants.
  
• It sounds like she is testing you, not for worthiness of sex, but for worthiness of a relationship. I am not a fan of testing potential partners, even though I have done it many times. Dating should be about being open, honest, and getting to know each other, not being manipulative to see if the other person does what you think he should do.
  
• Along with the testing, she sounds fairly immature. And I say fairly because she does sound like a smart, insightful person (much like yourself). But it also sounds like she doesn't have any solid values that she can lean on. Which can be good; I mean, she's figuring the world out with her own mind. But until she develops her own values and convictions, she's not going to be able to commit to another person.
  

 

Overall, I think the future of this relationship is going to have a lot of push and pull, mind games, and rejection followed by pursuit (in other words, not a mature relationship). But it sounds like you're up to the challenge. My advice to you would be to take a step back every once in a while and determine if you want to pursue her because she's what you want or because she's a challenge. If it's the former, keep pursuing and expect that she will continue to reject you at times until she's completely in love (which may never happen, even if she says it). If it's the latter, do both you and her a favor and find another challenge.

 

Ok, sorry for the novel of a response. I hope there's at least something in there you can use. And good luck.

 

That was VERY insightful, thank you!

 

I think I've made things very easy for her in the past. I was honest and straight-up with her, telling her "I like you, if you like me I would love to take things slow and see where things go."

 

I, too, think she isn't entirely sure of what she wants. I think she probably BELIEVES that she knows, but even when I was talking about her goals after college, for being such an ambitious girl, it was frightening to hear she had no plans. She's even applying to scholarships in England (she studied a semester there abroad a few years ago), and although I'd never call her out on it, I HIGHLY doubt she REALLY has an intention of going. I think she's trying to prove a point to her dad that she can get up and leave whenever she wants, and she wants the comfort of feeling acceptance to whatever school she gets accepted (she's applying to both Oxford and Cambridge).

 

The last guy she was crushing on for seemingly months was one of the guys she studied abroad with. I think she associates 'good feelings' with this study abroad trip, and because that guy was present in the group (even though she was banging a German guy) she started to like him. Now, I know OF this kid, I've seen him around, but never really spoke to him, so I don't know his feelings about her, but I DO know that he's still hooking up with his ex, and from what I understand, he's rejected her. The pattern to me looks like she likes very intelligent guys who befriend her, but ultimately reject her.

 

With that sort of knowledge, I think the fact that I am a graduate and don't speak/see her often helps. I've made myself scarce to her. I'm not going to be so honest this time around, I'll just drop subtle hints (in a sort of gender role reversal). I think the fact that we are going to one of the scariest haunted houses in the country can only help me. By the nature of it being scary, and the fact that they only allow 2 people in at once, I think the touch barrier will inevitably be broken....often broken.

 

Also, it's going to rain, so I'm going to hook her up with my jacket and I'm bringing a small umbrella so I can hold her close.

 

And after the House, I'm going to drive to a diner without telling her, so we can sit down, talk, and have a more 'date-like' feel and build the illusion that I've taken her on multiple dates.

 

What can I say? The guy makes plans.

 

At the very end of the night is where I get hazy. I think I can at the very least be able to walk her to her dormitory's entrance if it's still raining. I almost feel like we are at a point where she's going to have to make the first move.

 

Don't take this as overthinking, I'm going to go with the flow all night. If I get a "just friends" feel from the entire night, I'll still have a good time and just won't plan for round 2. I just set it up in a way that the night should favor me, is all.

[lakerman34]

ANNNNNNNDDDDDD I'm pretty certain I was friendzoned.....perhaps by accidentally friendzoning her.

 

Let me walk you through the night.

 

Day before, she got a concussion. Put a dent in our plans. She said "F it, I'm still going." Doctor, the next day, said otherwise. She can't do ANYTHING. So she asked to do something more lowkey. We decided on froyo and a movie.

 

Right before I was about to leave, she texts me. She's WAY too tired (concussions make you lethargic) so she's going to go to sleep, asks me if I can do Sunday.

 

I tell her no, so we bounce back dates, and finally I decide that I'll hang out with friends, and she'll call me when she wakes up. She said that works.

 

At about 9:30, she texts me. I'm waiting for her, she never replies. I wait for about an hour (it's OK, I'm with friends) and then go meet her. She has the door open, waiting for me. First thing she does? Removes gum, takes out hair tie. Good sign.

 

But that concussion. She looks SO fragile to me.

 

We start talking. I look at her directly in the eyes for long periods of time, she looks back, but no dilation of the pupils. I change our seating arrangement. We are both sitting on the floor on pillows, she's covering her eyes the whole time. I bring myself closer and closer to her, she doesn't draw herself away. I touch her back, leg, and arm several times, she doesn't pull away. I didn't do it in a sexual manner, I did it more in a comfortable manner. I kept calling her "buddy, bro, & dude" all night. Not on purpose, it just came out that way.

 

She was in a lot of pain. Her head was clearly killing her. She was cradling her body the whole time, and usually that means 'closing oneself off,' but even the first time we hooked up she did this.

 

Then, what happened at the end of the night was what killed me. There was a silence, and she said "I should probably go to sleep." I replied, "yeah, you look so tired." At this point, her body looked like it was turned the other way, away from me. I went for the full-on wrap around hug, she did the lean in hug.....and we hugged twice. Second time, she said "oh, again?"

 

Keep in mind, this is a not so affectionate girl.

 

I was trying to judge her voice, and this was another weird thing. At the beginning where she seemed more receptive, her voice was much more regularly pitched, but towards the end of our conversation, it was higher pitched and breathier. She started also blinking at me more profusely (could also be the concussion).

 

This girl gets aroused by good conversation, and I think it was pretty good. There were some awkward silences, and there were times she was burying her head into the ground so she can avoid the light, but overall, the conversation was good.

 

She brought up a boy she liked and how he "completely broke her" and how "he rejected her three times." I thought this was weird of her, but she's not one for social etiquette. I just smiled and said "wow."

 

About an hour later, I text her "sorry, my mind wasn't fully there so I couldn't fully engage, but always great to pick your mind [name]" to save some face. She knew I was tense before we met up because I had an argument with a friend. She wanted to know what was wrong, I told her "just arguing with a friend," and I dropped it.

 

When I left, I told her "text me when your down w/ your concussion. I need you with me 100%." She said "*******," I told her "kidding, later bro."

 

She still wants to go to the haunted house with me, but we're rescheduling that for Nov. 2. I want to see her again before that, but I don't know if that will happen or not.

 

I think it's best just not to contact her a whole lot. She seemed more eager to meet with me than I her (I was texting her "would another day be better?" and she responded "No! Come here now!" Things of that nature). If I see her once a week, and I only respond when she contacts me (except maybe on Monday I ask her to hang out on Thursday), there may still be a chance with her. Historically, I think it has taken her time to fall into some sort of "like" with guys, and we already have the history of her being on top of me naked.

 

I hope the mix of physical touching (she kind of put her leg over my foot and kept it there at one point -- no way she didn't realize, but it was too subtle to mean anything), fact she had a concussion, and something being on my mind I HOPE will lead her to "eh, circumstances were weird, I'll take another whack at him."

 

I noticed when I called her 'buddy,' she buried her head into her knees.