BornToDie Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I know things are easier said than done, but I'm tired of seeing couples fight and curse like cats and dogs every day, throw things around, and continue to live in such a negative environment but justify it by saying, "It's good for the baby to have his parents together." I know, I've never been in the situation myself, but I once was the child stuck with two parents in a miserable marriage. I remember, at two years old, my parents fighting and saying awful things to each other, and I was terrified and sad. My best friend recounted to me being two years old and going with her dad to the "other woman's" house (although her parents were still married), him telling her that this strange lady was "just a friend he worked with." My mom divorced my dad short after those memories, telling me all my life that she didn't want for me to have to grow up around their arguments and that "if someone makes you more miserable than happy, it's time to leave them." I've always been grateful to her that I didn't have to be around the two of them together and that I grew up away from my dad. Some other kids just aren't as lucky. I feel like kids are sponges; they pick up on that sort of thing. Who wants for their kid to think it's okay to talk down to women because growing up, dad did it to mom? I'm only really inquiring about this now because my boyfriend has a brother who has been "stuck" with his baby's mother for the past two years. In the past, before the baby, the cops have been called to them.. things going on like choking, hitting, and knives being pulled. They don't see themselves as being in a relationship with each other anymore and refer to the other as "roommate." Every time we go to see them, there's always fighting and very hateful language exchanged between the two of them, and each one complains about the other and how miserable they are with them. Then we get to hear "if the baby wasn't here, I'd be gone in a heartbeat." When I ask, "why not leave?" I get, "It's good for the baby that we stay together." Thoughts? Experiences?
Criticality Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Why stay together? Because sometimes its the best thing for the kids. Id be willing to stay for the kids. Sheis posted a thread about this the other day. She stayed for the kids and it turned out to be for the best. Obviously if there is physical violence, frequent fights and yelling, and the tension tends be thick in the air, then no. You shouldn't stay, and you'll screw up your kids. But if the parents can be civil to each other, get along without yelling or heck, if they can be nice to each other, not because they're in love but because they've spent years together as friends and companions, then yes: By all means stay for the kids. I think it's a nobel sacrifice in fact. Divorce is usually not a good option for all parties involved. It's just the best available option in a situation where the alternatives are even worse. 2
gaius Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Nobody really stays for the kids. It's just an excuse they tell themselves and other people Like anything else in life, for whatever reason the relationship meets their needs so they stick with it. 4
todreaminblue Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 children need two parents sometimes life doesnt afford that ....but....if you can be civil as another poster said and work on your relationship seek counsel never fight in front of the kids ...always keep it a family friendly environment then yes i do think things can be worked out..... and as far as honoring marriage vows ...isnt that what it is about.......keeping to the comitments you made......no matter if it gets rough you work through it......family counselling can also be beneficial for th echildren for them to express theri feelings if they have been witness to any discord, you have to have two willing parties come to the table...other wise dinner for one isnt really an option to stay together for the kids.....i have been that oen party at the table and i fought like a dog for years to keep the family together.sacrificed much.......not as in violence but unconditional love and forgiveness when you are being hurt time and time again is hard to live by...didnt work..when we broke up ......the kids had no idea because i didnt allow fighting or arguments or anger to influence them ....but then yeah they were shocked as was everybody because i didnt speak of what i was going through to anyone until it was over and i was hospitalized...so yeah talkign is good......counselling would be good too.......kids benefit from having two parents and when you have kids that should always be the plan........deb 1
Mascara Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Nobody really stays for the kids. It's just an excuse they tell themselves and other people Like anything else in life, for whatever reason the relationship meets their needs so they stick with it. This, times a million. (Unless there is violence, cheating or abuse, can we take those as a given. Or if someone walks out on you, since you have no control over that) Whenever I hear of people saying "it's better for us to separate than have the kids grow up hearing us fighting". Erm.... don't fight! Why does the option have to be either split up or have a miserable household? Those very same people will be on a dating site 6 months down the line telling people how their kids always come first, dammit. Yeah, if your kids came first you'd still be married (with the exceptions noted above) 2
thefooloftheyear Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 No one has the right to judge someone for "staying for the kds"...As a victim of a broken home, as bad as things were, they were always worse when my mom left...WAY worse...And my parents had about as bad a M as you will ever see. People who say kids are resilient..they get over it...Nonsense...They dont...Its horrible..If two parents decide to keep it together for the kids, they are making a sacrifice... I wont judge anyone for bailing, nor will I judge anyone for staying. Its their right. TFY 2
Mascara Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 No one has the right to judge someone for "staying for the kds"...As a victim of a broken home, as bad as things were, they were always worse when my mom left...WAY worse...And my parents had about as bad a M as you will ever see. People who say kids are resilient..they get over it...Nonsense...They dont...Its horrible..If two parents decide to keep it together for the kids, they are making a sacrifice... I wont judge anyone for bailing, nor will I judge anyone for staying. Its their right. TFY Me too TFY, and I'll never understand why that was somehow better for me than my parents staying together and not arguing. If they truly were interested in what was best for us, they'd have found a way to live together, no matter what it took. I was very young when they divorced - the couple I sometimes refer to as "my parents" here are actually my mother and my stepfather - so it's not like they battled through for years until we were almost grown. 1
stillafool Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Nobody really stays for the kids. It's just an excuse they tell themselves and other people Like anything else in life, for whatever reason the relationship meets their needs so they stick with it. I completely agree and I wish people would stop using it as an excuse to stay. They stay because they want to be there not because of the kids. If they cared that much for the kids they wouldn't be cheating in the first place. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Me too TFY, and I'll never understand why that was somehow better for me than my parents staying together and not arguing. If they truly were interested in what was best for us, they'd have found a way to live together, no matter what it took. I was very young when they divorced - the couple I sometimes refer to as "my parents" here are actually my mother and my stepfather - so it's not like they battled through for years until we were almost grown. Neither my mom or my dad would have settled for someone else and we had NO money...So I would have wound up living with a relative(which we did several times) or maybe even going to a foster home..There was a lot of passive aggressiveness, but to their credit, they kept it together so we can get out of the house. Once my kid brother got out of the high school, we were all on our own(parents kids, everyone).. My Dad is gone now, but I do not harbor the least bit of rementment for my mom. She left a few times for short periods, but could never leave us with my dad...he couldnt handle raising kids..She gave up her life for us..She has no regrets either-if you ask her...How can anyone possibly be critical of that? TFY
thefooloftheyear Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I completely agree and I wish people would stop using it as an excuse to stay. They stay because they want to be there not because of the kids. If they cared that much for the kids they wouldn't be cheating in the first place. Are you a parent? Youre not right about this...kids arent "excuses"...they are a responsibility of the greatest you will ever imagine..Cheating hasnt been brought up in this thread so why bother bringing that in? A friend of mine just got divorced...The whole entire process took all of 3 weeks..No apprehension, No angst, No guilt, NO nothing.. You know why? NO KIDS!! TFY
ASG Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I am very glad my parents didn't stay together. I was about 6/7 when they split up. They didn't love each other anymore, and even though they didn't have horrendous fights (at least not in front of us), they also weren't happy. Sometimes a relationship isn't fixable, no matter if there are kids or not. My dad left. But he was never a dead beat dad. He was there every step of the way. I saw him almost every day and he sure was there for every mile stone. My mom started dating someone new (and they're still together to this day, over 20 years later) and that was never an issue. So yes, kids do get over it. I never EVER wanted my parents to get back together. The thought NEVER crossed my mind. At all. When I was introduced to my step dad, the only thing I thought was "cool, he seems nice." I was 8. Some people have horrible experiences with one parent leaving. But I still think it's best that they leave. What good can possibly come of living in a household where the parents hate each other and fight all the time??? 3
Criticality Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Some people have horrible experiences with one parent leaving. But I still think it's best that they leave. What good can possibly come of living in a household where the parents hate each other and fight all the time??? No one says they have to hate each other and fight all the time. Sometimes spouses just fall out of love, but remain civil. Or one spouse feels like leaving. Or heck, they might both hate each other but at least keep it civil. If you can stay without constant fights, tension and abuse then sure, stay. Chances are its better for the kids. I'm glad you were fine with their divorce, and while I'm sure you're not the only kid who felt that way, there are also a lot of kids who dealt very poorly with their parents divorce. One of my friends actually had an mother who was abusive towards his dad. He understood both then and later that it was for the best that they'd seperate, but he still always hoped and wished for them to get back together. 2
Criticality Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 No two divorces or families are the same, and sometimes there are no right and wrong answers. Only tolerable solutions and even worse solutions. Overall though, if you can stay in a marriage without too much fighting or tension, if you can say: "OK, I don't love my spouse anymore, its not who I'd be with if I had the choice, and sometimes I don't even like my spouse that much. But I'm going to stay here for the next ten years for the kids, and maybe then try to find somebody else to spend the rest of my life with". That's a noble sacrifice for your kids. And of course it's helped by the fact that often, when two people don't love each other romantically anymore, there usually remains a partnership or friendship forged by all the years and experiences together. You are incredibly comfortable around each other and nobody knows you as well as your spouse. The above is also why cheating men usually come back to the wife. And of course for the kids... 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 No two divorces or families are the same, and sometimes there are no right and wrong answers. Only tolerable solutions and even worse solutions. Overall though, if you can stay in a marriage without too much fighting or tension, if you can say: "OK, I don't love my spouse anymore, its not who I'd be with if I had the choice, and sometimes I don't even like my spouse that much. But I'm going to stay here for the next ten years for the kids, and maybe then try to find somebody else to spend the rest of my life with". That's a noble sacrifice for your kids. And of course it's helped by the fact that often, when two people don't love each other romantically anymore, there usually remains a partnership or friendship forged by all the years and experiences together. You are incredibly comfortable around each other and nobody knows you as well as your spouse. The above is also why cheating men usually come back to the wife. And of course for the kids... Well said...couldnt agree more.. The reality is that no two parents are the same either..While you would think that most parents are loving and attentive to their kids and do everything within their power to see that the kids lead a healthy and successful life..The sad reality is that many people only have kids because its what is "expected" or its some kind of "accessory" to their lives...Its horrible, quite frankly. So, for them, getting a divorce-or doing anything else that may remotely be considered detrimental to their kids is of no concern to them...They only think of themselves. TFY
gaius Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Are you a parent? Youre not right about this...kids arent "excuses"...they are a responsibility of the greatest you will ever imagine..Cheating hasnt been brought up in this thread so why bother bringing that in? A friend of mine just got divorced...The whole entire process took all of 3 weeks..No apprehension, No angst, No guilt, NO nothing.. You know why? NO KIDS!! TFY People who are bad for each other stay together all the time despite not having kids. Your friend is just one example. My father found out my mother was pregnant and exited just as fast. So much about for the kids. Some guys might stay because they see it as their duty, but that doesn't mean they're actually doing it "for the kids". That it benefits those kids by staying. They're really doing it for their own self-image. I remember when my mother finally kicked out my step-father who beat the crap out of me and whom she was always fighting with. It was a much more pleasant atmosphere without him. Everyone was happier except him. But of course he kept coming around, contributing to fights and misery in the house "for the kids". My real father did me a better service by just staying away and keeping the child support checks coming. Edited October 14, 2013 by gaius
gaius Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 No two divorces or families are the same, and sometimes there are no right and wrong answers. Only tolerable solutions and even worse solutions. Overall though, if you can stay in a marriage without too much fighting or tension, if you can say: "OK, I don't love my spouse anymore, its not who I'd be with if I had the choice, and sometimes I don't even like my spouse that much. But I'm going to stay here for the next ten years for the kids, and maybe then try to find somebody else to spend the rest of my life with". That's a noble sacrifice for your kids. I see that as just teaching your kids bad habits. Kids are very perceptive. No matter how civil you try to be or how well you fake it they're still gonna figure out that you don't really love each other, and that's what they should aim for and tolerate. This, times a million. (Unless there is violence, cheating or abuse, can we take those as a given. Or if someone walks out on you, since you have no control over that) Whenever I hear of people saying "it's better for us to separate than have the kids grow up hearing us fighting". Erm.... don't fight! Why does the option have to be either split up or have a miserable household? Those very same people will be on a dating site 6 months down the line telling people how their kids always come first, dammit. Yeah, if your kids came first you'd still be married (with the exceptions noted above) Where have you been all my loveshack life? Some really good, on the spot posts from you lately. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) People who are bad for each other stay together all the time despite not having kids. Your friend is just one example. My father found out my mother was pregnant and exited just as fast. So much about for the kids. Some guys might stay because they see it as their duty, but that doesn't mean they're actually doing it "for the kids". That it benefits those kids by staying. They're really doing it for their own self-image. I remember when my mother finally kicked out my step-father who beat the crap out of me and whom she was always fighting with. It was a much more pleasant atmosphere without him. Everyone was happier except him. But of course he kept coming around, contributing to fights and misery in the house "for the kids". My real father did me a better service by just staying away and keeping the child support checks coming. Kids change people...I am thinking you dont have any kids...I wont hold that against you, or say you cant comment, but your perspective is obviously limited. When my kid arrived, it was truly a life altering experience in my life..I was the type that was immersed in business and the thought of having a "little me" was so out in left field, that it amazes me to this day.. I turned into a more compassionate person..No longer always chasing a dollar, now I had something to look forward to..Even though she is ten years old, I spend a fair amount of my daytime hours wondering how she is doing, is she paying attention at school, is she cold, did she forget anything, etc... Point is, if you think its easy to turn that little angels life upside down(which is what any divorce would do), then you really dont have the perspective to understand. And, for the record, I am NOT one of those goofy, overbearing type of parents...I just the hell out of her... YMMV TFY Edited October 14, 2013 by thefooloftheyear 1
GorillaTheater Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I can put up with a hell of alot for the sake of my kids, and what I percieve to be in their best interests.
Mascara Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Where have you been all my loveshack life? Some really good, on the spot posts from you lately. Ha, I've been around for years. I was inactive for many though. 1
todreaminblue Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 No one says they have to hate each other and fight all the time. Sometimes spouses just fall out of love, but remain civil. Or one spouse feels like leaving. Or heck, they might both hate each other but at least keep it civil. If you can stay without constant fights, tension and abuse then sure, stay. Chances are its better for the kids. I'm glad you were fine with their divorce, and while I'm sure you're not the only kid who felt that way, there are also a lot of kids who dealt very poorly with their parents divorce. One of my friends actually had an mother who was abusive towards his dad. He understood both then and later that it was for the best that they'd seperate, but he still always hoped and wished for them to get back together. to true some kids have a terrible time , blame themselves , deal with associated trauma.....and when kids are abandoned begging their parent not to leave and that parent turns his..... ok.... or her back on the and says sorry i have to do this for me.......what does that say? ....or do?....possibly give a child abandonment issues to take into any relationships they might have......clinnginess neediness vulnerabilities to being abused or left in the same manner......too many too mention deal with most of them...... i am actually at peace now with my partner leaving me, it was for th ebest......not necessarily for the kids an ideal situation would have been for him to stay and be a dad and get counselling he wasnt willing too.....he walked out on my girls pleading with him and when he left them so coldly...my oldest daughter lookign at me and sobbing why mum why cant you make him stay...nah.....i dont know how he could have done that my mind gets confused when i try to think of it......kids dont deserve to be bought into the world to be left...i think fo that when i get depressed.....i have to stay no matter how depressed i am how blue how sad how angry or mad..or hopeless as a parent i feel...they never asked to be born.......i had them ....my responsibility...maybe all parents should think of that...before they give up what should be....maybe then there would be less single parents and less sex being had by people who arent committed to each other in the first place....thats why i believe in sex after marriage...chidlren are life long responsibility as guardians carers nurturing new lives into fruitful existence...you cant guard if you are not present.....no wonder kids are growing up with no natural affection for familial ties....family is forgetting to be family in the first place....i am so passionate abotu this......and yet society today looks down at single mothers...spend a day in the life of i smy suggestion....see how hard it is...ebfore judging and think that single mothers want this and are judgemental on why mothers or fathers decide to stay and kee[p a family united.........makes me retch.....so they should stay ...thats responsibility and commitment........deb
lollipopspot Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I see that as just teaching your kids bad habits. Kids are very perceptive. No matter how civil you try to be or how well you fake it they're still gonna figure out that you don't really love each other, and that's what they should aim for and tolerate. What's the bad habit you're teaching? Marriage doesn't have to just be about romantic love. In fact, I don't even think that was the original purpose of marriage. It can be about working together as a partnership, and taking care of the responsibilities you brought into the world (children). I don't see the bad habit. I think if the parents can live together, function well together, and raise their children in a stable environment, that's pretty great, even if the romantic part of the marriage is gone. I think when you have young children and get divorced, the romantic part of your life should be on hold anyway, if possible. Bringing a string of new partners and step parents into the mix is often enough a recipe for discord and even molestation.
iris219 Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Overall though, if you can stay in a marriage without too much fighting or tension, if you can say: "OK, I don't love my spouse anymore, its not who I'd be with if I had the choice, and sometimes I don't even like my spouse that much. But I'm going to stay here for the next ten years for the kids, and maybe then try to find somebody else to spend the rest of my life with". That's a noble sacrifice for your kids. And of course it's helped by the fact that often, when two people don't love each other romantically anymore, there usually remains a partnership or friendship forged by all the years and experiences together. You are incredibly comfortable around each other and nobody knows you as well as your spouse. The above is also why cheating men usually come back to the wife. And of course for the kids... This is what my bf and his ex did for most of their marriage. It got to the point where they couldn't be in the same room together--not because they hated each other (at first they didn't, at least), but because of the resentment that built from the fact they were basically trapped with each other, with a person they were entirely incompatible with. They had almost no life beyond the kids. Sure they would go out occasionally (separately of course), but what kind of life is that really? How is it noble to put aside your emotional, intellectual, and sexual needs for your children? You will be a couple, sure, but you will both be empty shells of people raising these children. How can you possibly be an effective parent in a situation like that?
lollipopspot Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 How is it noble to put aside your emotional, intellectual, and sexual needs for your children? You will be a couple, sure, but you will both be empty shells of people raising these children. How can you possibly be an effective parent in a situation like that? If someone insists on being an "empty shell" of a person because they have to stay with the person they decided to procreate with (whom they apparently had nothing intellectually in common with), then they shouldn't stay together. But some people can manage to stay together, be civil and friendly to each other, continue their hobbies and other interests, and raise their kids as a partnership. 2
todreaminblue Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 If someone insists on being an "empty shell" of a person because they have to stay with the person they decided to procreate with (whom they apparently had nothing intellectually in common with), then they shouldn't stay together. But some people can manage to stay together, be civil and friendly to each other, continue their hobbies and other interests, and raise their kids as a partnership. i agree it has to be a two way street...you have to work on it get those compatabilities back.......and for some it isnt suitable to stay together....oen thing i dont agree is the getting back together separating getting back together that to me would confuse children even more...it needs to be cut and dried stay or go...no empty shells but a combined effort to make a marriage work.....civility respect fidelity..i figured this out for me anyway...when i contemplated trying again with my ex getting him back...i was thinking of the kids trying to convince myself of what we had by remembering how he touched me how we were in the beginning the love part.......... my heart was going nooooo dont you dare do it.......i listened to my heart........and my kids are slowly getting better its been years and they have residuals still.....deb
gaius Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Kids change people...I am thinking you dont have any kids...I wont hold that against you, or say you cant comment, but your perspective is obviously limited. When my kid arrived, it was truly a life altering experience in my life..I was the type that was immersed in business and the thought of having a "little me" was so out in left field, that it amazes me to this day.. I turned into a more compassionate person..No longer always chasing a dollar, now I had something to look forward to..Even though she is ten years old, I spend a fair amount of my daytime hours wondering how she is doing, is she paying attention at school, is she cold, did she forget anything, etc... Point is, if you think its easy to turn that little angels life upside down(which is what any divorce would do), then you really dont have the perspective to understand. And, for the record, I am NOT one of those goofy, overbearing type of parents...I just the hell out of her... YMMV TFY Well that's good for you, condescending post and all, but you're avoiding the main point. Why would you have to stay with your wife in an unhappy marriage to make all that happen? You can't think about her if you live nearby? You can't call her, ask about her day? See her every weekend? Of course you can. If you're making the deliberate choice to stay with someone who makes you unhappy when you're more than capable of maintaining a healthy and frequent relationship with your daughter, well then there must be some other process going on in your brain. One that's probably more self-involved than you're willing to admit. Not that I'm saying that's your situation, I'm just speaking hypothetically. I have no idea what your situation is.
Recommended Posts