The worst crime?

[waterwoman]

I have read here that there are many things you can do to damage a relationship, and that infidelity isn't the worst. I find that quite hard to swallow but maybe that is because of where I am. Currently, even 15 months after dday, and inspite of fessing up to everything I can think of that I did wrong that might have contributed to the situation, I still think H's affair was the worst. I have tried to work out why I feel that but I just keep coming up against a big stone wall of hurt. I can't quite get past that no matter how much I try to rationalise it all.

 

The only thing I can think of that would have been more damaging was doing something to hurt on our children.

[GorillaTheater]

The only thing I can think of that would have been more damaging was doing something to hurt on our children.

 

That's the only thing I could think of as I started to read your post.

 

I suppose domestic violence could be another, certainly under certain circumstances.

[underwater2010]

Physical/emotional infidelity and/or financial infidelity can be a marriage killer. It forces us to either leave the relationship or begin a new one where trust is earned not a given. I do feel that my husband cheating was the second to the worst thing he could do to me. The first being physical/emotional abuse towards our children.

 

But for us we started anew. And I pray that he never does this to me again.

[velvette]

To me its one of the worst things because it involves a lot of things that destroy R....lies, dishonesty, disrespect, etc..........but it has an added ingredient that those things in and of themselves don't......a third party........making any other problem within the marriage unsolvable so long as the A continues. Ditto with the aftermath.

[carhill]

The worst crime? Arbitrarily and capriciously terminating another human's life. Infidelity doesn't even come close. Given the numbers of betraying and betrayed who go on to die peacefully in their beds at an advanced age, it's pretty self-evident. Painful? Absolutely. Devastating? Yep. Wrong? Definitely. But nowhere near the worst crime, morally or legally, perpetrated by humans upon humans.

[GorillaTheater]

The worst crime? Arbitrarily and capriciously terminating another human's life. Infidelity doesn't even come close. Given the numbers of betraying and betrayed who go on to die peacefully in their beds at an advanced age, it's pretty self-evident. Painful? Absolutely. Devastating? Yep. Wrong? Definitely. But nowhere near the worst crime, morally or legally, perpetrated by humans upon humans.

 

This is certainly a fair point, and one I alluded to in my post re domestic violence. Rape would be another (although I have seen at least one post by a woman who has experienced both, and described the infidelity as the more painful and harder to overcome).

 

But, having come a little closer to death than I'd prefer a couple of years ago, I'd point out that once you're dead, your problems are over. If you find you've been cheated on, your problems are just beginning.

[yellowmaverick]

Although infidelity is technically not a "crime" in most states, one could argue that it is a crime against God (if you believe in God). I have yet to meet a BS who did not think that his/her spouse's infidelity was the worst emotional act of their marriage. I certainly agree with this as does my WH.

 

As I have never been a battered wife, I cannot say that infidelity is worse than physical abuse - I don't know. Both acts are horrible violations of the trust that we have in our spouses to care for us and to protect us.

 

I can say this for certain - my H's infidelity and the resulting stalking of me and my children by his OW are the events that have most profoundly changed my life and the core of who I am (and I have lived through several devastating events, including the loss of six babies). Nobody who hasn't experienced this level of infidelity could even begin to understand the devastation.

[waterwoman]

I didn't mean 'crime' in the sense of breaking the law. Sorry, I thought that was obvious given the context. I was referring to 'crime' in the sense of damage to a marriage.

[carhill]

Since betrayal is a part of everyday life, and infidelity is historically extant and significant and at, purportedly, all-time highs, people have been dealing with these problems throughout time and, if anything, the legal and social sanctions regarding infidelity/betrayal have lessened, not strengthened. For the person betrayed, their personal experience is one no one else will ever know. To them, it may very well be the worst crime. However, society/culture/government, as a whole, appears to criminalize infidelity subordinate to other crimes, hence, not the worst crime.

 

To use an example from personal experience, I might think that being beat to a pulp and left in a field to die might be the worst crime but society disagrees and tells me to 'man up' and assigns the label of 'battery' to such acts, and often does not prosecute such perpetrators, especially as minors. Now, my perspective and societies perspective may disagree, just as my perspective, societies perspective and the betrayed's perspective may disagree. Hence the debate.

 

On the 'problems just beginning' front, I'd rank child abuse far above infidelity on the 'worst crime' list. That's a betrayal of the most elemental kind, and at a time when the victim is largely helpless, inexperienced and dependent and, if they live, have a whole life to deal with the fallout of the actions of the perp.

[Spark1111]

WW, other than dying, being raped, or having my legs and arm chopped off....infidelity remains the most painful experience I have had to overcome.

 

Until I experience anything worse (God forbid!) It is at number one.

 

I am the child of a mentally ill, devoutly religious mother and a gifted, but alcoholic creative father.

 

Even as a young child, I realized that they had no control over their afflictions, although they strived daily to do so. While I felt neglected at times, I also felt loved and reasonably safe and well-cared for. They tried, KWIM?

 

So, I, who did not want to marry, married the only man on the planet who I loved and trusted blindly because of how safe and secure he made me feel.

 

I came home to the home I had never had. And he was as constant as the North Star.

 

....until I discovered his affair with a nut job drama queen co-worker who ALSO claimed how abusive her xH was and continued to be.

 

And that ripped the very fabric out of the reality, I, we, had worked so hard to create for one another. And shattered the trust. And my superhero came crashing down to earth in flames, tattered and tainted.

 

So yes, infidelity for me, was the number one most painful act I have ever had to experience and overcome.

[thefooloftheyear]

It(Infidelity) is as bad as it gets....

 

But what "weight" would you place on years(decades?) of neglect, passive aggressive behavior, sexual and emotional disconnect and and lack of compassion and understanding of the MP?

 

And I know the "easy" answer is to just pack up and leave.. Its not easy, especially if you care about the person, honor the institution of marriage, and dont want to subject your kid(s) to the ravages of a divorce.

 

I wonder what God would think of that?

 

 

TFY

[waterwoman]

It(Infidelity) is as bad as it gets....

 

But what "weight" would you place on years(decades?) of neglect, passive aggressive behavior, sexual and emotional disconnect and and lack of compassion and understanding of the MP?

 

And I know the "easy" answer is to just pack up and leave.. Its not easy, especially if you care about the person, honor the institution of marriage, and dont want to subject your kid(s) to the ravages of a divorce.

 

I wonder what God would think of that?

 

 

TFY

 

God? I personally don't have a lot of time for what God would think being an atheist. I just know what I think in the context of my marriage and the behaviour within it.

[waterwoman]

But what "weight" would you place on years(decades?) of neglect, passive aggressive behavior, sexual and emotional disconnect and and lack of compassion and understanding of the MP?

 

Sorry forgot to address this. Personally I would put a great deal of weight on that. I am sad to think that anyone has to live in a relationship of that nature. Thankfully for my H he didn't (as he would attest if you asked him). I still don't think it makes infidelity acceptable. And I can't see how it would help to fix those particular problems.

[underwater2010]

It(Infidelity) is as bad as it gets....

 

But what "weight" would you place on years(decades?) of neglect, passive aggressive behavior, sexual and emotional disconnect and and lack of compassion and understanding of the MP?

 

And I know the "easy" answer is to just pack up and leave.. Its not easy, especially if you care about the person, honor the institution of marriage, and dont want to subject your kid(s) to the ravages of a divorce.

 

I wonder what God would think of that?

 

 

TFY

 

I guess if your situation is years(decades?) of neglect, passive aggressive behavior, sexual and emotional disconnect and and lack of compassion and understanding of the MP the weight would be fairly heavy. But bringing an affair into the mix does not solve the problem. And in that situation can even make it worse.

 

I am guessing God would say the spouse had already broken the vows, therefore the marriage would be null and void. Hence the application of divorce and annulments.

[waterwoman]

My point is, to me what could be salvagable becomes unsalvagable once my partner makes the decision to screw someone else. Any neglect I could get over if things improved.

 

Yep. It's a bit of a 'stop the bus' isn't it. Which can be a good thing in a way as it forces both partners to re-evaluate and take action. Still a sh*tty thing to do to anyone.

[thefooloftheyear]

True.

 

However, if I had a spouse that neglected me, sexually or otherwise, and it took a toll on me, I could recover from that if we got help and things got better.

 

Being neglected isn't something that would cause me great emotional distress. Causing me to be unhappy in the marriage, sure, but not mentally damaging.

 

As opposed to being cheated on. I wouldn't be able to get over that as I could neglect from a spouse.

 

My point is, to me what could be salvagable becomes unsalvagable once my partner makes the decision to screw someone else. Any neglect I could get over if things improved. Cheating?, no.

 

Ridiculous...

 

Im sorry...The fact that you said "if" means you have no personal experience it..You cannot relate.

 

Tell it to someone who has walked in those shoes and has to come home to that every day...Nonsense....Long term neglect and disconnect, year after year after year, is one of the cruelest forms of abuse. Id rather get a Lousville Slugger to the skull then endure that ever again..

 

Doesnt justify going outside the marriage, but to toss that aside like its that they didnt take out the trash on Tuesday just shows you have NO idea how painful and frustrating.it is..

 

Id argue that its easier to get over an affair-especially if it was a one time indiscretion with no real feelings for the OW/OM, but no two people are the same.

 

 

TFY

Edited October 10, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[thefooloftheyear]

Not ridiculous at all. I said this is FOR ME. For me it isn't salvagable. Thats the way I feel about it. Not saying its the way it should be for all.

 

 

 

 

I say "if" because currently I'm not married.

 

I was married. Wife cheated. I divorced her.

 

 

 

 

Nope, I was in those shoes. No nonsense whatsoever. Nice try.

 

 

 

 

Not for me. I lived it. My wife neglected me. Yes, I wasn't happy about the situation, but it wasn't traumatic for me. If things had improved, I could have gotten over it.

 

 

 

I do, I lived it. Nice try.

 

 

Im calling BS

 

You never mentioned you were neglected and suffered any emotional disconnect in your first post and now you do? You said "if" ...You wouldnt have said if, if you had already lived it...Oh well..

 

Maybe if we asked her, she was the one that suffered the emotional disconnect and neglect...But she cant give her side, so...

 

Im sorry you got cheated on...It sucks for anyone and I would never say that anything is a reason to engage in it. But its silly to dismiss it as something thats easy to get over....Its the equivalent of someone bleeding you to death over time..

 

 

I wish you well...

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

Why do I have to mention that I was neglected by my wife? I wasn't interjecting my situation into the first post. Was addressing the idea of what other worse "crimes" there were.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure she would say she did too. It takes two to make a marriage work. I happened to handle my neglect differently than she would have. Call it two individuals who handled complacency differently.

 

 

 

I never said it would be easy to get over. I am saying it wasn't traumatizing for me as the cheating was.

 

And again FOR ME, I could get over neglect if things improved. I could not, however, get over the cheating, hence why I divorced her.

 

 

 

 

Ya sure, all while calling BS because I didn't happen to mention my entire marital story in the first post:rolleyes:

 

Of course you are going to have to call BS to save face since you were completely off the mark the first time. But at least try to come up with a better argument as to why you call BS.

 

 

This is your exact quote...

 

"However, if I had a spouse that neglected me, sexually or otherwise, and it took a toll on me, I could recover from that if we got help and things got better."

 

 

 

Look...I dont want to argue with you, but in reality anyone wouldnt have said "if" to any situation, if they actually lived it..You can tell me nice try, and I can say BS..Who cares? .Whatever...Lets not make a big deal of it..K?

 

I do wish you well..Its a bitch..I sympathize 100%...No one should have to go through it..

 

TFY

Edited October 10, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[JamesM]

I am going to say that infidelity is up there, but I would agree with those that the emotional pain of watching your children suffering physically or emotionally at the hands of another while being able to do nothing about it would be far worse.

 

Honestly for me (note I said for me), the pain of divorce would be worse than infidelity unless perhaps the divorce resulted from infidelity. That would be worse combined. Being rejected and watching her instead want someone else while I still loved her would be devastating. Having her cheat with someone else and want to come back should be less painful. Finding out that she cheated AND wanted a divorce would be the worst of these three options.

 

However, if you want to really get into it, then I have no doubt that emotional and physical torture at the hands of another who controlled your life would be worse than the pain from infidelity.

[Quiet Storm]

I helped a casual friend whose husband was, in my opinion, a sociopath.

 

He had cheated on her multiple times. He did not physically abuse her, but threatened her when she decided to leave him due to his cheating. He wouldnt leave the house. She managed to get a restraining order and he was ordered out of the house. He was given a set time to get his things while she would be at work.

 

When she got home, her dog that she had since a puppy was dead. The dog appeared to have strangled himself by getting tangled in the cord from the window blinds. She believes he killed the dog, but the cops let it go, said there was no proof.

 

She was hysterical for days, followed by a deep depression.

 

I ended up giving her money for an attorney so she could get an expedited divorce ( in md you have to be apart for a year) and I gave a deposition on her behalf, as I had witnessed some verbal threats.

 

She told me that killing her dog was worse than the cheating, as the dog had been there for her so many times when she felt alone.

 

He didn't give up and tried to get her fired, followed her, etc. She is still watching her back and its been years.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Quiet Storm

[JamesM]

So what is the point of pointing out there are worse things than infidelity?

 

You should ask waterwoman that question.

 

The original post and title asked if infidelity was the worst crime? And then she later asked regarding the worst in a relationship. Perhaps you didn't read it like I....and most of the other posters....read it.

[GorillaTheater]

I can tell you what the point of it is. It is said by people who really want to tell some BS's out there, "there are worse things than infidelity, so just f'in get over it", and most often said by those that have done the cheating before.

 

Would it change your opinion to know that the OP was the BS?

[JamesM]

I can tell you what the point of it is. It is said by people who really want to tell some BS's out there, "there are worse things than infidelity, so just f'in get over it", and most often said by those that have done the cheating before.

 

Check out waterwoman's past.

 

 

 

Nice condescension

 

Thank you?

[jlola]

Some people simply are not cheaters. Neglect, abuse,nothing will make them cheat.

 

My mother could have gotten 10 men to cheat with her for every one woman my father had. But she id not. He was neglectful,moody,absusive, a liar anad a cheater. I still have issues of why she would stay with this man. But cheat, she never did. she would say she would not stoop as low as he, plus never show us this was an example of how to cope.

 

I have said this before. My sister has cheated on all of her husbands. And talk about neglectful. Soon as she married them she got bored. She would come home late. We have heard from all husbands how she will completely shut down and not talk for days.

 

Last husband was in the hospital with anxiety attacks 4 months after marriage. ALL of her husbands except #2 her cheating partner did not cheat. She has radar for good guys.Well most of the times anyway.

 

See, she was on alert if it was going to be done to her. In fact, the man who did cheat on her a BF, betwwen husband #2 and #3 was the one who landed her in the mental ward. We had to have her committed. Funny,when she was the one cheating, it was "no big deal. get over it". But when it was done to her, she could not handle it!

 

Then comes my half sister. She too was NOT neglected. She was having an affair with MOM BEFORe she was even married. So when she had her MOM's child and tried passing it off as BS's child, she was not neglected. In fact, she had an attentive and good husband along ith his family who loved her dearly Well, till they found out what a cruel person she really was.

 

I have been in relationships where I was neglected and not to brag, but there are never a shortage of men I could have gone to for "comfort" . I never did. I let a lot of really great guys walk by while I was in relationships with losers . I left when I was ready.When I learned the lesson I needed to learn for growth. Never cheated!!I have seen way too much destruction to think it's an option.

 

I have learned to choose wisely and to value character over words.

[jlola]

I have to add that I do not think it was the infidelity alone that drove my sister mental. She is fragile to begin with.

 

But it was the gaslighting, the "I didn't say that, you heard wrong", the lies, the excuses made by then BF when he was late "I was just spending time with my son" (but do not dare call my ex-wife to confirm).

 

"You are so insecure". Meanwhile shutting his phone off so she cannot contact him. The manipulation. The flirting, Everything that goes along with the crazy making and making her doubt her perceptions. As I said before, the very same tactics used on husbands were used on her. But she still did not learn the lesson she was meant to.