I am questioning if I'm crazy...

[velvette]

I didn't even deal with my H infidelity until he dealt with the abuse issues.

 

Once I was done with the abuse I wasn't staying in the house with him one more day until he got help to stop it.

 

Did you discuss these rages/anger mgt issues when you were in counseling? Did he make any commitments to deal with them?

[ComingInHot]

velvette,

Yes but in counseling he would deflect questions Not dealing w/his A as Not on topic or as we say here "T/J".

 

Yes, he "promised" never to rage on me again... you know, "I'm so sorry baby, I know it hurts you and I know I shouldn't do it but but now that "we" have worked through the why I had to yell at you, you won't do those things again so I can promise never to yell at you again"

 

Yet tonight he is SO very loving and wonderful and so concerned and thankful I wasn't hurt and genuinely scared that I could've been hurt!

[velvette]

velvette,

Yes but in counseling he would deflect questions Not dealing w/his A as Not on topic or as we say here "T/J".

 

Yes, he "promised" never to rage on me again... you know, "I'm so sorry baby, I know it hurts you and I know I shouldn't do it but but now that "we" have worked through the why I had to yell at you, you won't do those things again so I can promise never to yell at you again"

 

Yet tonight he is SO very loving and wonderful and so concerned and thankful I wasn't hurt and genuinely scared that I could've been hurt!

 

that's a pretty convoluted apology..........you might want to read The Verbally Abusive R by Patricia Evans if you haven't.

 

You need to start talking back to him without discussion, because there's no point in discussion with the logic he is exhibiting.

 

Say things like.....No. Don't yell at me. That behavior is unacceptable. etc. Things that do not invite discussion or argument.

 

Do you have any idea what is at the root of his rage?

[2sunny]

Okay, so I had to speak with my besties to wrap my head around what my H said yesterday.

Here goes...

I brought up how when I fall short and he gets "upset", and once he's calmed asks me what tools I am going to learn then implement so I don't make the same mistake again.

I reminded him of how he asks this and then said will you please use this process so you don't repeat the verbal and emotional abuse when you get upset with me or at someone/thing else and turn it onto me.

What tools can you acquire then implement to help you not continue treating me the way you do?

 

His reply:

"I CAN'T Change who I am, so I have to change what happens around me and control my environment so I am not pushed to that point"

(seriously, he Did say that)

 

I explained with as much calm and grace as I could that there are times in life when we can do Nothing to Control or Change our environment or people BUT it has been proven that the ONE THING individuals CAN Control and change is themselves. Then asked him if he felt he couldn't change or he was UN-willing to change?

 

H's Response;

"No. I CANNOT. This is Who I am and What I am. It's the blood that runs through my veins."

 

 

I am not sure if he REALLY believe this or if this is another manipulation tactic to try to get ME to believe it so I will resign myself to living this life accepting that it's not his fault as he can't help it...

It's Gross either way.

 

There is more but it's all I have the strength to write and I have to work.

 

I have decided to speak with a "professional" who creates and dissolves contracts to see what I can expect.

 

Never thought I'd be here with my M.

 

God I hope you divorce him!

 

I was M to a guy like him for 20 years - and leaving him was the best thing I ever did!

 

He made EVERYTHING my responsibility and MY fault!

 

And I was never allowed to complain!

 

Freedom! Divorce him and you will see what freedom feels like!

 

Yes, it is ABSOLUTELY abuse. I no longer ALLOW people to raise their voice to me - it hurts too much. It's very wonderful to train people to treat me with respect. If they don't follow simple instructions by being nice - they get cut out of my life really quickly!

 

No more abuse! Lie is too short to allow others to disrespect me!

Edited October 12, 2013 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

velvette,

Yes but in counseling he would deflect questions Not dealing w/his A as Not on topic or as we say here "T/J".

 

Yes, he "promised" never to rage on me again... you know, "I'm so sorry baby, I know it hurts you and I know I shouldn't do it but but now that "we" have worked through the why I had to yell at you, you won't do those things again so I can promise never to yell at you again"

 

Yet tonight he is SO very loving and wonderful and so concerned and thankful I wasn't hurt and genuinely scared that I could've been hurt!

 

They get "overly nice" to balance out the "mean and vicious" side they've shown.

 

Leave him! Who cares how much it may cost you - it will be worth EVERY PENNY to get him out of your life!

[ComingInHot]

And... it might cost me just that.

 

I really thought things had changed.

The cycle of abuse just happened to last over two years after his A, yet very slowly things eased back to where he is comfortable bringing back old behaviors.

 

Difference this time is I See it and don't accept it.

 

So now it's a matter of convincing Him that he no longer wants me. If I can. It's the safest way.

 

If I can't or he won't then I'll just have to do it the hard way.

[2sunny]

And... it might cost me just that.

 

I really thought things had changed.

The cycle of abuse just happened to last over two years after his A, yet very slowly things eased back to where he is comfortable bringing back old behaviors.

 

Difference this time is I See it and don't accept it.

 

So now it's a matter of convincing Him that he no longer wants me. If I can. It's the safest way.

 

If I can't or he won't then I'll just have to do it the hard way.

 

I can't stress enough that you should do it now!

[KathyM]

What he is doing is definitely verbal and emotional abuse. It's not going to change unless he gets extensive independent counseling for his anger issues and is motivated to change. These patterns are very engrained, and originate in childhood. There are various reasons why a person may develop these anger issues. It could be because the person suffered a narcissistic injury as a child. It could be because abuse was modeled to him by a parent or he was a victim of abuse himself. It could be because he was physically or emotionally abandoned by a parent during a portion of his childhood, so his fear of abandonment causes him to alternate between pushing you away by vilifying or abusing you, followed by trying to win you back. But regardless of the reason for why he is like this, he is not likely to change without extensive individual counseling and motivation to change. Don't be fooled by the honeymoon phase in the cycle of abuse, which he is now in if he is being sweet and loving after the latest incident of abuse. It won't last. Tension will build up in him again until he explodes and unleashes his anger on you again, which will again be followed by the honeymoon stage, and the cycle will continue. He may have been in the honeymoon phase for the last two years because his infidelity put him on shaky ground with you, but now that time has past, he is reverting back to old habits and patterns. He will find a reason to blame you for something and go into his tirades, followed by a honeymoon period, then a build up of tension, and a blow up. I would suggest getting out of the marriage. He was unfaithful AND he has a very engrained pattern of abuse. Don't allow yourself to be subjected to this. My sister wasted 20 years of her life with a man that sounds very much like your husband. Her husband had NPD, cheated on her, was verbally abusive, would blame her for every little thing, go into tirades, and at times, was physically abusive as well. She was very forgiving and stuck with him for 20 years until he cheated on her for a second time. After all that, her self esteem was shot after years of being blamed and put down, not to mention cheated on. She wishes she had left him after the first time he was unfaithful.

 

The book recommended by a previous poster, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans, is a good book for understanding the dynamics of verbally abusive people, and for how to respond to verbal abuse, but the book also states that verbal abuse usually escalates over time, the pattern is very engrained, and extremely difficult to eradicate. I think it would be a good idea to cut your losses at this point, before you invest even more of your life into this toxic man.

[KathyM]

And... it might cost me just that.

 

I really thought things had changed.

The cycle of abuse just happened to last over two years after his A, yet very slowly things eased back to where he is comfortable bringing back old behaviors.

 

Difference this time is I See it and don't accept it.

 

So now it's a matter of convincing Him that he no longer wants me. If I can. It's the safest way.

 

If I can't or he won't then I'll just have to do it the hard way.

Trying to convince him that he no longer wants you? That would be an exercise in futility. You are the type who men like this seek out. A woman who is very forgiving and tolerant. Who won't stand up for herself. Who will keep taking him back. Who will tolerate his abuse. Nothing is going to change until you decide you've had enough, and take action YOURSELF to leave this toxic man. He is not going to leave on his own. To him, he has a good thing going. Someone who will continue to tolerate and forgive. I don't mean to sound harsh, but when you say you need to convince him to leave you, rather than making the decision and take action to leave yourself, then something is amiss here.

[ComingInHot]

KathyM, I do appreciate the support. I'd everyone to know that although I have been a foolish woman, I AM an intelligent one.

 

My H is Text Book, word for word, out of the psych books. I stand up for myself Absolutely! However , remember, he is looking to me as his outlet. If I "engage" I am fueling him. If I do not engage, he keeps at it until he feels better.

 

The ONLY thing that will make him stop yelling at me, is if I'm NOT there.

 

I believe in forgiveness. I believe in second chances.

 

I believe that if someone Tells you they cannot change, they won't.

 

So, I'm out.

 

Officer lovely called me again last night (which I found weird kind of but I'm probably over thinking) . He said he was checking in about the accident then asked if I wanted to make the conversation we had re; H and abuse, into an official "statement/report"?

 

It didn't even occur to me I could, so of course, yes. The case building begins. He also advised that I don't up and leave until I have filed for a ppo and D.

 

On it.

[ComingInHot]

kathy, babe, I'm usually pretty thorough in my posting about why I come round to my different options for solutions.

 

I wrote it would be Ideal or easiest & safest if I could make him think D was His idea.*

In the meantime I Am starting to build my own case beginning w/following the advice of the officer I met yesterday at the stupid car wreck.

 

H is w/me EVERY moment he has but w/family in need, I am going to use my time to meet w/an attorney.

[Steen719]

CIH,

My XH was somewhat similar to yours in that he had anger issues, blamed me for most things and cheated on me. I saw him get plenty angry with me over the years, but never like I did when I was leaving him. He was mean, really cruel and yelled in a voice I had never heard in 23 years. Had I been afraid he would be physically violent, I would have been terrified. As it was, I did get a little concerned about it, but did not think he would do it, but who knows for sure? I, too, stood up for myself with him, but let things go when I was too sick of trying. I left the house very shortly after with many people urging me to, including my 20 year old son (age then)

 

Anyway, my point that I am trying to make without enough coffee in me is you are right to be concerned and just be careful, which I know you will be. Really wish you the best and hope you can find some peace for you and your children.

[ComingInHot]

I think there are a couple of catalysts for my final decision;

 

-Knowing that the cycle of abuse really didn't stop, just took a-lot longer to cycle.

-Hearing him accept that he Knows he is verbally emotionally abusive w/angry outbursts and states he "cannot" (code for will not) change

-Hearing him tell me he must control his environment and those in it or change his environment and those in it. (Ironic huh?)

-Our children. They are coming of age where they are now active participants in H's "environment" and Will impact/upset him. (It's already beginning but stops now)

-It is time to take all of this, wrap it up in a neat little D package, and Pray he won't do what the majority of my family & friends think he is capable of

 

Have I Ever written I hate Drama? I hate being drawn into w/out my consent. I hate accidentally starting it and diffuse it right away.

[ComingInHot]

Oh J', how can two totally different situations yield the same result?

Answer; The SAME type of man...

 

It is time we both Take back that which we gave So willingly, our lives.!!

 

I can sit here and type the "I Wish" scenarios, but it will waste my time and energy.

 

I believe I have done all that I can do, am required to do. You too.*

 

I sincerely forgive him. I don't hate him. But it's time for me to let go with No Regrets or feelings of failure on my part.

 

And that is pretty "freeing" for me.

[velvette]

KathyM, I do appreciate the support. I'd everyone to know that although I have been a foolish woman, I AM an intelligent one.

 

My H is Text Book, word for word, out of the psych books. I stand up for myself Absolutely! However , remember, he is looking to me as his outlet. If I "engage" I am fueling him. If I do not engage, he keeps at it until he feels better.

 

The ONLY thing that will make him stop yelling at me, is if I'm NOT there.

 

I believe in forgiveness. I believe in second chances.

 

I believe that if someone Tells you they cannot change, they won't.

 

So, I'm out.

 

Officer lovely called me again last night (which I found weird kind of but I'm probably over thinking) . He said he was checking in about the accident then asked if I wanted to make the conversation we had re; H and abuse, into an official "statement/report"?

 

It didn't even occur to me I could, so of course, yes. The case building begins. He also advised that I don't up and leave until I have filed for a ppo and D.

 

On it.

 

I hate to be cynical, but I have never heard of such a proactive cop. Don't meet with him other than station house. Verify his legal advise with lawyer. Also, I'm not current on this, but is he telling you they will arrest him for yelling at you? On what charges?

 

I read some of your back story. Esp the Sept 2012 ultimatum to get into counseling. That was a mistake imo(because you didn't know better --not criticizing you.); however, it appears your H when faced with losing you did what you asked him to do. As I said before joint counseling with an abuser is not effective in resolving the abusers issues.

 

What would happen if you said to him........this is not what I signed up for when I agreed to R; not what we agreed to; cant live with this; since you say you cant stop abusing me, go to counseling to get help for your issue or I'm done?

 

Not saying you shouldn't D. However, he needs to be in counseling. And, presumably he will be dealing with your kids whether you stay or go.

Better if he could get help even if you don't stay.

 

Has he actually been diagnosed NPD?

[KathyM]

kathy, babe, I'm usually pretty thorough in my posting about why I come round to my different options for solutions.

 

I wrote it would be Ideal or easiest & safest if I could make him think D was His idea.*

In the meantime I Am starting to build my own case beginning w/following the advice of the officer I met yesterday at the stupid car wreck.

 

H is w/me EVERY moment he has but w/family in need, I am going to use my time to meet w/an attorney.

Allright, well, it sounds like you are taking action to get away from this toxic situation. I would drop the trying to convince him to divorce you in any case. If he feels you are pulling away, which is what is likely if you start talking about divorce to him, he will likely become desparate. If the officer thinks you should stay and continue to be abused in order to gather evidence to use against the guy in court, I can't say that would be a good idea, but you do what you feel is best, based on the advice of your attorney. Good luck.

[ComingInHot]

vellvette, I kind of thought it odd myself when Mr. Officer called me back. I am wary and will speak to n attorney next week.

 

No. He can NOT arrest a person for yelling and wcreaming, however it would be documented. He stated he wished more spouses would call policy for domestic disturbances because it begins the trail of evidence. Without it I or people have a harder time proving verbal/emotional abuse. As well as, should anything turn physical (which I doubt in my stitch - he's smarter than that...), it would appear a "one time thing".

 

Don't think about whether your being cynical or not, it's these kinds of questions that are so important to be asked so the Poster ie; Me, can think things through*

There is only so much a person can or is willing to share sometimes (including myself) and it does leave "holes" that inhibit people here from being able to support, and for other posters to fall down going a direction not even close to relevant. (You didn't do that here by the way:))

 

Thank you!!*

[ComingInHot]

Thanks KathyM*

It's frustrating understanding & knowing what I do of the two dynamics between the abuser and victim. I Do experience what the victim feels and thinks only Now I have to be strong enough to Not enable the cycle to continue and literally change my pattern of thinking. Not always easy.

Not to mention it p*sses me of to realize that I am even IN this stupid stitch!

 

As for staying to continue in this, I am putting a plan in place as well as building a case so when the time comes, Everything happens at once allowing me to be safeER to begin the Hard work of stabalizing my life, finding work, and giving or children all that they are going to need to get through this as well.

 

The Whole thing is SO stupid. All because someone claims they can't control themselves but can control Everyone and Everything else!

Just Stupid.

[thefooloftheyear]

CIH.....

 

Sorry you are having all of these issues...

 

Yes, I doubt he'd get physical with you...From what I am reading - I dont think he would...

 

Question....

 

Has this behavior been since the breakup of the affair? Or has it escalated, since?

 

I say this, because of the possibility that he really didnt want to reconcile, but felt a duty to his kids and not getting his life turned upside down from the divorce, so now he feels "stuck"...not so much for the love of the affair partner-but that he got a taste of the "other life"...wants to live it and knows he cant due to financial reasons or guilt over the kids.

 

So he winds up in a constant state of resentment of you, because you are the one standing in the way of the "other life"....If you catch my drift..Every little thing becomes magnified.

 

 

I know those comments might be construed as hurtful-so I apologize in advance:( -just trying to shed a light..And I dont know your whole story so forgive me there as well..

 

I wish you all the best...

 

TFY

[ComingInHot]

fooloftheyear,

Actually this has been going on for Over 10 years. The first break from him yelling was after he ended the A and before I found out. When I found out, I gave him a hug and said everyone should have a chance to be happy, now go. There was never a battle to hold on to him. That was My out!! No custody issues nothing and everything would have been better, (for me & kids), & eventually him if he decided to get help*

 

It hasn't gotten as bad as it was but it IS starting again.

 

I guess I'm just not willing to go back to that place or subject our children to it, ya know.

 

Really I have only One Issue. Him yelling again... I Wish it was because he ever loved her, or wasn't over her. That would make it so much easier!!*

[Gunny376]

So, it's no secret that my H has anger management issues and he did have an A.

 

Things were better for a long time. I was trusting him again and working together was well, working.

I was So close to working off the debts that I didn't know the Company had, and my credit score was fi ally a B+ again.

I finally felt like our relationship was more that of a team rather than him being the Overload LOOKING for mistakes so he could unleash.

 

Then, w/out prior knowledge I found myself in a worse position than before. Something that never should have happened Did and he gave me like twenty reasons why it happened and why it wasn't His fault...

 

This last week, we've been under enormous amounts of stress and he started unleashing on me verbally/emotionally. At least that how it feels to me.

 

So I ask, Three hours of screaming, cussing, rampaging at me because I didn't know my cell was down while I was working (the job of 4 full time employees and that's not an exaggeration*) and I had forgotten to deliver a package that was initially his responsibility then gave to.

At first, I tried to explain that this was not a priority and although I did forget, the job would get done, but he was having none of it.

 

This IS abuse right? Being somebody's verbal punching bag like this Is wrong correct? My friends believe he systematically and maliciously planned to pull the stunt w/our business w/my name on the line, so he could gain control once again over me.

 

I also don't know what kind of things I can do to do anything prouctive. About this.

And honestly, I'm tired.

 

Pull tha' plug and go silent and deep like an American sub under the Polar Icecap!

 

Then lose the clown! He's not worthy of your time, effort, energy (mental, emotional, pyschogiocial etc!)

 

As a retired United States Marine prionr to my retirement from "Tha Corps!" I just didn't have a clue as to how many "losers" they're out and about here!

Edited October 13, 2013 by Gunny376

[Midwestmom12]

This is classic abuse. I know because I suffered through the same thing. I am in the process of a divorce from my husband of 6 years. Our divorce will be final in January and we have a 6 year old son.

 

Like you, he ruined my finances. I was so buried in work and trying to stay afloat that I was oblivious to his abuse for years. I had no idea he was cheating. I always thought his rage was due to our financial problems even though he was the one causing them with his out of control spending and lack of desire to keep a job. He was jealous of my friends. He didn't want me talking to my family.

 

He is from California and I am from Michigan. I met him and married him while I was living in California. Needless to say I found myself 2300 miles away from my family in a bad marriage with a small child. I was scared and I felt alone. I did have friends in California but he was so jealous I rarely went out. There were many instances where I knew deep down I should leave but I wanted to keep my family together. So I threw myself into work and our son and trying to be the best wife I could be.

 

Nothing I did was ever good enough for him. To the outside world he is this nice guy but I knew from living with him how he could quickly snap and turn into a monster. His fits of rage were scary. The constant fighting. He would find ways to start an argument even when there was some peace.

 

I am an educated smart and beautiful woman but I found myself married to a man like this. For years I asked myself "How did I get here?" Things became so bad financially that I asked my Mom if we could come to Michigan and move in with her. I needed to rebuild my credit and get my life together. He moved with me but he wasn't happy about the move because now that my Mother and my family were around he no longer had total control.

 

With the stress of carrying the ship off of me I was finally able to see him for who he really is. There is no saving a person like this. You can't help them. No matter what you do he will perceive it as a negative. He will say or do anything to lure you back when you try to leave.

 

I was afraid of him at first. That he would kill me. Sometimes I am still afraid but I also started to embrace my own anger. He has tried to intimidate me and scare me but I am fighting back. He threatened me recently and I exploded on him. He was afraid. I have also started documenting our conversations and communications via email and copying both of our attorney's to protect myself legally from his scare tactics in relation to our son.

 

Get out of this and don't look back. Leaving is scary but staying is more dangerous. I believe in marriage and family. I would have left sooner but I didn't want my son to be without his father. Then I realized how scared my son was of him and how his fits of rage were causing my son to suffer from anxiety. It was then I realized my son was better off without him on regular basis. Don't feel guilty. Think about yourself. Leave him alone to wallow in his anger. He needs to man up and address the source of it but he won't as long as you are around as a target. Move on for the sake of yourself and any children you have.

[ComingInHot]

Red Wolverine, Are you sure you're not me in disguise, like me from the future me.

 

Oh, and... "Go Blue!!" If you're for Green then... "Go Wings!!"

 

Seriously though, Thank You* All of You!!

 

Note: this will be the Only thread regarding my stitch, I am going to be keeping a low profile w/regards to this topic til I can Post Freely again.

He's been distracted lately w/parent, sick issues (I adore the parent & vis-a-versa*), so it's been hard.

 

Ya eh, no guilt there right?!

[TrappedWanderer]

Thanks midwestmom, for your posting. My husband turned out to be an abusive liar and now I'm trying to deal with the ramifications of getting myself out of this situation. You post was a good reminder that I am, indeed, doing the right thing by getting out now.

 

He's financially ruined me and I'm stuck alone in another country, making this process-the logistics and the emotional part-that much more difficult. But I guess it's better to see this now than 5 years down the road with more entanglement. The lies, the rage, the refusing to take any responsibility...all the while remaining mister nice guy to everyone else. It makes me so angry but more than that, so hurt.

 

Life, huh...sometimes I really do wonder if nice guys do finish last...

[ComingInHot]

TrappedWanderer wrote, "...sometimes I really do wonder if nice guys do finish last..."

 

Trapped, The One thing, the ONLY thing I EVER asked of my H was to just "be nice" to me.

I have an issue with bullies and mean people. I never dated them. Even the so called "bad boys" that I dated, were so very kind and nice to me. My H was the perfect suitor. He was charming and kind and everything I was looking for. I had NO idea he reacted abusively when he became angry or even just stressed. He had Everyone "snowed".

 

...what I wouldn't give for a "nice guy"... *sigh*