Standard-Fare Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 For those of you who believe in evolution – as in Darwinism, humans descended from apes – would you even CONSIDER dating someone who didn't? I grew up in the Northeast U.S., college-educated there, etc., and haven't even had to deal with this viewpoint before. Unfortunately, I've now discovered it in the man I'm dating. During the warm-weather months, I spend a lot of time in a coastal area of the South. This year I started a romance there. The guy is sweet, charming, and very kind to me. He grew up in a rural area of the South and I could always tell our different backgrounds would make for some contrasting political/religious views. I can accept most of our differences. We don't talk about them much and when they come up it's usually through interesting debate. But ... it came out this weekend that he doesn't believe in evolution and I was pretty appalled. Don't even know if I can accept it. I'll be completely honest at the risk of sounding snobbish/unfair -- I think this is touching on some of my fears/prejudices of "The South." Since we have only skimmed the surface in our different belief systems, I fear this is just the tip of the iceberg and we should probably cut loose now.
Emilia Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Since we have only skimmed the surface in our different belief systems, I fear this is just the tip of the iceberg and we should probably cut loose now. I would. The 'cuteness' of differences wears off when you realise the other person is simply stupid and isn't capable of a reasoned argument. 8
Author Standard-Fare Posted October 7, 2013 Author Posted October 7, 2013 I would. The 'cuteness' of differences wears off when you realise the other person is simply stupid and isn't capable of a reasoned argument. He's not stupid at all. He reads, keeps himself informed on national/worldwide news (more than I do, in fact), has traveled all over, has mature tastes in art, music, food. He's not just some "dummy redneck." However, I do sense that deep down some of his more conservative viewpoints (coming from his upbringing in a very Christian Southern town) are going to clash hardcore with some of mine. In a way that may be too hard to overcome.
ConstantVoyager Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Modern evolution does not postulate that humans are descended from apes, but that we both come from common ancestors. That said, if a guy didn't believe in evolution, it's highly likely we'd disagree on way too many things to make for a realistic relationship. 3
Arabella Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 I dealt with exactly the same issue with my ex. I am an Atheist, and he was a Baptist. For most of our relationship, we simply respected each other's beliefs and did not discuss the topic often. Then we got married (civil ceremony), and I realized just how deep the differences ran. He, like your prospect, did not believe in evolution. At first, it didn't matter... But then, like Emilia said, I started to resent every time that we talked about anything relating to the world BC, and he would basically stare at me like I was insane. I tried to "educate" him so he would at least understand my point of view... but to no avail. He wasn't interested. Eventually, this became a significant rift, and definitely a contributing factor to the demise of our relationship.
ScienceGal Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 For me, blatant denial of evolution would be a deal breaker. There is a middle ground, where evolution and creationism can overlap and not be in complete disagreement with one another though. I would be open to discussing that stance with a partner, as I think being inquisitive and open-minded is a good thing. If he's already shut the door on the issue, and doesn't want to explore and learn more about it, then you have to accept it or move on. I'd advise you learn more about who he is, and his position on other issues that are important to you. There might be more differences to take into account. Good luck. 7
Philosoraptor Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 As long as two people are truly accepting and respectful of the belief system of one another; there doesn't have to be an issue. My fiancee and I have differing beliefs and it's never caused a rift or any problems.
Mascara Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 I couldn't be with someone like that, but then in the UK it doesn't really come up. We're not a very religious nation compared to America.
Emilia Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 He's not stupid at all. He reads, keeps himself informed on national/worldwide news (more than I do, in fact), has traveled all over, has mature tastes in art, music, food. He's not just some "dummy redneck." However, I do sense that deep down some of his more conservative viewpoints (coming from his upbringing in a very Christian Southern town) are going to clash hardcore with some of mine. In a way that may be too hard to overcome. I'm sorry but intelligent people don't question evolution. They might not agree with all of it but they will believe in the principle. I'm sure he is widely travelled but that does not make him smart. 3
JamesM Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 It doesn't really matter what the issue, but the reality is...the best marriages are when two individuals can agree on all of the major issues. Marriage is difficult and requires work. It doesn't matter how much love there is...it still is work. When the two cannot agree on major issues, then it is guaranteed that this will cause rifts. It is far better to date someone who agrees with you than to choose someone who has major differences. Evolution is such a difference. I'm sorry but intelligent people don't question evolution. It would be another thread but many intelligent people question evolution (as in how we all came from a single cell) and not just creationists. I would like to think I am somewhat intelligent, and yes, I question it on a number of levels. Having said that, yes, it would be a dealbreaker for me if someone accepted it without questioning it.
Ninjainpajamas Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Having similar viewpoints, beliefs and values is of paramount importance in a long-term relationship because it dictates how you choose to live your life together and potentially as a family and trickles down to all other things, it's fine though for shotgun romances and love-affairs, the differences may be hardly felt and appear to be inconsequential....but in the big picture it's not just this lukewarm indifference where "everything is going to go alright down the road because we get along so well" kind of thing, all those other sweet and nice things right now aren't going to fix every disagreement or even make the other want to compromise or see eye to eye. Someone who has a completely different view is obviously going to clash with you on things you cannot perceive and It's definitely going to be something that is relevant if kids come into the picture...somebody is going to get the say so with how the kids are raised, so if you're ok with being a bit submissive and letting this guys values dictate much of the ideology in the household for the entire family then go for it. Otherwise realize this person might be great in many ways but fundamentally clashes in the bigger picture...the longer-term, and therefore not take it that far...you'll save yourself a lot of trouble and "ups and downs", it's best to leave while you still have that mutual respect and consideration with each other rather than letting it get to the breaking point of having to insult or disrespect each others values in defense of your own views or criticisms. I'm not saying it's entirely impossible to make these type of relationships work, but it's going to be a lot of extra work to do it...better make sure it's worth the sacrifice and you've got a lot of communication, compromise and respect on the table...don't wait for the important things to be talked about down the road thinking you'll just magically roll over them in your love mobile...shet changes in the long-term, the butterflies and rose pedals aren't enough to overshadow the realities of core incompatibilities past the honeymoon phase. 5
Carenth Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 100% deal breaker for me a sure sign that our views of the world are polar opposites. Thus no point in pursuing a relationship as I will end up wanting to kill them. 1
serial muse Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 It would be a dealbreaker for me in a significant other. I have friends and family who don't understand evolution (I agree that it's not a belief), and thus we just don't talk about it and I respect that that's their choice; I'm not out to berate anybody. But I couldn't deal with that kind of distance in my core relationship. Science is too important to me. 3
colombiana28 Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 I could begrudgingly accept a belief in theistic evolution, but definitely not young earth creationism. But mostly I want to find a sexy atheist man who knows more about science than I do. 2
Shepp Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 This title just instantly reminded me of friends!!! 2
BluEyeL Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 He's not stupid at all. He reads, keeps himself informed on national/worldwide news (more than I do, in fact), has traveled all over, has mature tastes in art, music, food. He's not just some "dummy redneck." However, I do sense that deep down some of his more conservative viewpoints (coming from his upbringing in a very Christian Southern town) are going to clash hardcore with some of mine. In a way that may be too hard to overcome. I would definitely not date this person. It's all new now, but long term, such major belief differences are not looking good. Unless you start convincing yourself to adopt his views. I've seen white women become Muslims and cover their head because they married Arabs.
jimloveslips Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 I couldn't be with someone like that, but then in the UK it doesn't really come up. We're not a very religious nation compared to America. Isn't it ironic how the Queen is the head of the Church in the UK, but over here the Church and State are constitutionally separated and yet you can't get elected if you don't have a religion... well, a Christian religion! (I'm a English/British expat)
soccerrprp Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 For those of you who believe in evolution – as in Darwinism, humans descended from apes – would you even CONSIDER dating someone who didn't? Sure. I personally don't see how this is a deal-breaker. If this belief is a tip of an iceberg of a series of differences in core values then it's a problem, but if it's an isolated difference in opinion, I'd agree to disagree.
Mascara Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Isn't it ironic how the Queen is the head of the Church in the UK, but over here the Church and State are constitutionally separated and yet you can't get elected if you don't have a religion... well, a Christian religion! (I'm a English/British expat) I think Brits are a bit bewildered by how important religion is there... it can be a deal breaker for a US presidential candidate to declare as an atheist, but over here the opposite is true.... religious leaders, like Tony Blair (devout Catholic), have to downplay their beliefs if they want to be elected. We don't like our politicians too churchy 1
Author Standard-Fare Posted October 7, 2013 Author Posted October 7, 2013 The thing that saddens me about this is the underlying takeaway seems to be: "People with very different upbringings can't form successful relationships." Or more specifically, "Northeast U.S. vs. Southeast U.S. = big culture clash." He and I have different backgrounds that have formed our beliefs here. For me, being born, raised and educated in the Northeast, there's not a chance in hell I'd question the fundamentals of evolution. That's simply not a viewpoint that had any weight in my education and upbringing. But for him, it was. In fact, it was the most prevalent viewpoint he encountered. As I said, he's not stupid at all. And during our conversation about this he noted that he took AP Biology in high school, college-level science courses, etc. So he's not just approaching this from an ignorant place. He also has more nuanced viewpoints than just "this doesn't exist." But ultimately I think his background is just too strong to overcome. Our last clash along these lines involved "Obama's war on coal." But it's pretty obvious that I'm going to take the liberal "coal = bad" view given my background. Meanwhile, his viewpoint is formed by actual growing up near coal mines and seeing friends and family members lose jobs and find no other livelihood. He's coming at it from an entirely different angle and I can't relate.
soccerrprp Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 I think Brits are a bit bewildered by how important religion is there... it can be a deal breaker for a US presidential candidate to declare as an atheist, but over here the opposite is true.... religious leaders, like Tony Blair (devout Catholic), have to downplay their beliefs if they want to be elected. We don't like our politicians too churchy A fricken' lesson our politicians and society here in the USA should adopt, frankly. Not b/c religions is necessarily bad, but b/c our American brand of religiosity is abundantly corrupted by worldly and political influences so that hypocrisy is a common theme.
KathyM Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 shet changes in the long-term, the butterflies and rose pedals aren't enough to overshadow the realities of core incompatibilities past the honeymoon phase. The above bears repeating. Core incompatibilities will put a huge strain on your relationship, and is often what breaks up a marriage or a relationship. Shared values and core beliefs are important in a relationship, and make for a more compatible, harmonious relationship. If you have such disrespect for his belief system, and even consider him as unintelligent just because he has a different belief system than you, you are obviously not compatible.
soccerrprp Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 ...the butterflies and rose pedals aren't enough to overshadow the realities of core incompatibilities past the honeymoon phase. If evolution is a CORE value to the OP, then let that person go. I believe in evolution and don't find it to be a CORE value. In fact, people who believe in evolution have their own degree of loyalty to theory that falls on a spectrum of evolutionary commitment and adherence. Shall I reject potential mates b/c they don't believe in evolution AS MUCH as I do? Not. Anyway, if evolutions is that strong of a value to you, then move on.
soccerrprp Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Isn't it ironic how the Queen is the head of the Church in the UK, but over here the Church and State are constitutionally separated and yet you can't get elected if you don't have a religion... well, a Christian religion! (I'm a English/British expat) A TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN RELIGION. If people think Romney's Mormon beliefs didn't have some role in him losing some votes, I think they'd be wrong. The traditional, conservative faiths that did vote for him did so b/c they didn't like the alternative, not b/c they stopped thinking he was a member of a cult.
JamesM Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 As a man who has been married many years AND with children, I can say that the major issues didn't really become issues until we began raising children. Thankfully, we DO agree on most, and I knew that going into the marriage. But I think most couples can overlook major issues when they do not have children. When the children come along (assuming they do), then when you see your spouse teaching "your" children ideals that you fundamentally disagree with (or vice versa), then those issues that "we will agree to disagree" become huge hurdles to overcome. Honestly, the fact that you made this thread says to me that you should part ways with this guy before you become to emotionally involved. 2
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