Demonizing the wife

October 7, 2013

the journal article request. The refuge when no argument can be made.

I would trust the word of mental health professionals who have to work with kids everyday who's parents acted badly, and cheating is acting badly. It is a p@ss poor method of solving problems, it teaches the children that lying and deceit are acceptable, and it puts a betrayed spouse in an untenable situation.

If it's easier for you to make your case, why don't you share links to show journal articles (published in a reputable journal) hat show how an affair doesn't affect the children, and is a good parenting tactic. I'd be very interested to see them.

If you need to see a journal article to know that a parent having an affair is hurtful to the children and can lead to them having mental health problems, I would highly suggest that you quiet emulating an ostrich and get your head out of the sand.

I really wonder why some people seem to believe the actions of a parent have zero effect on a child. Especially today. How often does one read on here about how the lovers in an affair sends dozens of not hundreds of texts everyday to each other, spend hours online together etc. how is this not gong to have a effect on the children? Don't people think they will be affected by this?

Edited October 7, 2013 by rumbleseat

October 7, 2013

Well, I never said that what parents do doesn't affect their children. I question why children (not teenagers or older) are privy to the facts about their parent's intimate/sexual lives? I find that unhealthy in all kinds of ways. Also, not all WSs spend time texting or online with their lovers. In fact, my exMM and texted possibly 3 times or so in our entire 10 year relationship and have NEVER been online together. I can see that yes, that kind of time input while your children are being ignored would be damaging.

I am sure that if a 5 year old is being talked to about Mommy or Daddy's affair that this would be damaging. Other than one parent telling them about it, how the hell would they know it was even going on? People using children as pawns is disgusting.

I would hazard a guess that any mental health professional who feels that children, even little ones can't tell when something is wrong with mommy or daddy, that they are sad or something is on their mind is not one I wold trust. I would even wonder if they had a skewed perspective, and may be allowing their personal life to bleed into their professional

I've and color their opinions.

All I can say is that when a psychiatrist, who was an authority on adjustment disorder and depression in children said that a parent having an affair affects the children, I would take him at his word. Maybe you need to see something written down to "get it". I would suggest than an online search may be in order for those not gifted with common sense.

Cheers

October 7, 2013

Ten characters.

WTHF, so much justification and anger are in your posts. So much justification for bad behaviors. Many OW on these threads agree there are negative effects to kids. Kids are smarter than some give them credit for. The older the kid, the easier for them to pick up on the reality without anyone saying **** to them.

As for demonizing the wife, it is very common. See it all the time on the boards. My guess is that thinking negatively about the spouse helps the other not only justify the affair, but also as a way to block guilt. This whole issue with him driving when just the day before he was too sick to drive? Seriously I can't believe that the BS is being painted as the mean mommy when she is clearly concerned for his safety and well being. Actually, when I get medical treatments my husband absolutely babies me...brings me my favorite.coffee, gifts, cooks for me, etc. Why? Not to be my daddy, but because he loves me and wants me to focus on getting better. Wants me to follow doctors orders to the T. Including not driving when applicable. Ya know?

There are also OW who spend plenty of time on the infidelity boards making inflammatory comments as well. Many BS who post here do so not out of bitterness or anger or hatred, but to try and help others see the reality that mAP typically lies to both to keep both. Head, meet sand.

October 7, 2013

Here are some articles that include links to journal articles re: the effect of infidelity on children:

How Does Infidelity Affect Children: Interview With Kelli Korn | eRelationshipAdviceCafe

http://digitool.library.colostate.edu///exlibris/dtl/d3_1/apache_media/L2V4bGlicmlzL2R0bC9kM18xL2FwYWNoZV9tZWRpYS8xNzUwMzE=.pdf

http://www2.uwstout.edu/content/lib/thesis/2001/2001koskim.pdf

Parents Who Cheat is a book written on the subject, but I didn't want to post a commercial link so you'll have to look it up

Edited October 7, 2013 by rumbleseat

October 7, 2013

Well, I never said that what parents do doesn't affect their children. I question why children (not teenagers or older) are privy to the facts about their parent's intimate/sexual lives? I find that unhealthy in all kinds of ways. Also, not all WSs spend time texting or online with their lovers. In fact, my exMM and texted possibly 3 times or so in our entire 10 year relationship and have NEVER been online together. I can see that yes, that kind of time input while your children are being ignored would be damaging.

I am sure that if a 5 year old is being talked to about Mommy or Daddy's affair that this would be damaging. Other than one parent telling them about it, how the hell would they know it was even going on? People using children as pawns is disgusting.

My H made our daughter "privy" to his affair when he was not careful with a late night phone call to his mistress. My daughter carried tremendous guilt after d-day for not understanding what she had walked into at the time. He made all of our children "privy" to his affair when his psycho sl*t stalked us. My kids were put through hell. HE and his psycho mistress used our children as pawns and yes, it was disgusting. He may never be fully able to repair those relationships and it is 100% on him.

October 7, 2013

So, why isn't he coming clean with his wife and telling her that he is totally giddy in love with someone else and he has to divorce her so he can start his life with you?

For your sake, I hope he isn't 'future faking' and giving you tons of hope when all the meanwhile he is just enjoying the A and has no real intention of leaving and divorcing his wife.

Please protect your son so he won't get hurt if all goes south.

My son is 28

October 7, 2013

I'll say it again. It's very simple.

If the BW is human, then any OW with a conscience might feel actual guilt about screwing her husband and the father of her children.

So she has to be evil.

As for those who know she is human and still think they are blameless and are proud of screwing the BW's husband....

You can't fix that. That kind of flaw runs too deep.

October 7, 2013

I think an AP 'hating' the BS is the natural product of cognitive dissonance. The fact that WS proclaims love for the AP and often insults/complains about the BS to the AP but still doesn't leave the relationship is a breeding ground for cognitive dissonance in the AP. The AP only has two options: (1) leave, or (2) change how they interpret the situation in a way that justifies staying with the WS. They need a reason that explains why the WS has free will and can leave but doesn't. Thus, the BS becomes the enemy who is somehow holding the WS hostage.

October 7, 2013

WTHF WROTE, " I never said it was an ideal choice, or that it was the "right" choice, or that it didn't have its cons. But, I am able to see why it is considered a possible choice to avoid divorce. You obviously believe that divorce is simple as one, two, three, easy as pie (Yet think that the marriage union is complex and important and not just a piece of paper, but dissolving it is easy - kind of contradictory), and we obviously disagree on that. I suppose, if you are the type of person to tell your children about adult matters/issues, and use them as pawns against their other parent because you feel wronged and are spiteful, sure, that could be pretty damaging to children."

Wtfh, uh, no. Waaaay off track but that's fine. At least we agree that it's not the "right" choice.

It's sad that so many Know it's not the "right" choice but choose it anyway.

Divorce is NOT easy. Never Ever said it was but as read here, for some cheaters it ends up being the right choice for Everyone sucked into the A-Fallout.

As well as for those that don't cheat*

October 7, 2013

solostand wrote, " The heart wants what it wants."

Solostand, I understand from reading where you are in the position of the A why you feel & see the way you do. I don't believe in telling someone Ever that their feeling are Not real.

Your last comment though, is a dangerously contentious one because (I see) it as opening the door for Anyone to do Anything They Want, regardless of who gets hurt, so long as they get it. This equates then to Cheating, enabling, rape, murder, theft, Anything because, " The heart wants what it wants".

There are times when I WANT something but know that it is not mine or would hurt others and tell myself, No. It sucks for a while, but I move on a better, stronger person having left Others better for it too*

In your stitch, I Do pray he (MM) works out what he wants/needs to put an end to the A as soon as possible, whether that be to D and hook up w/you or attempt Ring w/his Wife.

CIH*

October 7, 2013

Yep, me too.

He has switched his emotional attachment from her to me already - he told me last week that I know more about what is going on in his emotional life than his wife, which I already knew.

its complicated, but he cannot leave at this very minute because he has to switch his company (which he started and has operated for 40 years) to his adult son and give himself a large salary.

He shows he loves me in many ways. When my cousin died unexpectedly, he immediatly came to be by my side. Then he came to the wake WITH ME as my significant other, even though there were people there from his home town. He did not know my cousin.

When my son's dog died, it was sort of a middle of the night tragedy, he came to be by my side. I did not ask him to, he just did it.

October 7, 2013

Yep, me too.

He has switched his emotional attachment from her to me already - he told me last week that I know more about what is going on in his emotional life than his wife, which I already knew.

its complicated, but he cannot leave at this very minute because he has to switch his company (which he started and has operated for 40 years) to his adult son and give himself a large salary.

He shows he loves me in many ways. When my cousin died unexpectedly, he immediatly came to be by my side. Then he came to the wake WITH ME as my significant other, even though there were people there from his home town. He did not know my cousin.

When my son's dog died, it was sort of a middle of the night tragedy, he came to be by my side. I did not ask him to, he just did it.

This guy is not very smart, is he? Doesn't he know the court is just going to reverse that and force him to give half the company to his wife? Sorry, but you don't get to ride off into the sunset with all your marital assets and your mistress. Any lawyer will tell your misguided affair partner that moving assets to avoid equitable distribution is only going to piss off the judge. His wife is going to get what is due her no matter where this guy moves his assets.

Has he even talked to a lawyer? His wife is going to make out like a bandit whether he likes it or not; and since the end result is the same, why doesn't he just leave today? It makes no difference.

October 7, 2013

Well he's not very experienced in divorce, never having had one.

She'll still get her share. There's plenty to go around.

And he's not trying to shut her out at all. He just wants to make sure she doesn't block him out completely, since she is the treasurer.

Edited October 7, 2013 by solostand

October 7, 2013

Don't wanna be a wife. Been there, done that. Got the T-Shirt.

October 7, 2013

"The heart wants what it wants."

You may remember those words. They're the excuse Woody Allen offered in 1992 for leaving his longtime lover to run off with her daughter. Even many of Allen’s fans were repulsed by the affair and by Allen’s cavalier attitude...

So Allen's heart got what it wanted. According to the unwritten laws of our culture--and according to the philosophy he expressed in that infamous sentence--he ought to be happy.

Only he's not, according to a new interview in the Washington Post. Interviewer David Segal quips that Allen's worldview "is so bereft of meaning, so godless and absurd, that the only proper response is to curl up on a sofa and howl for your mommy."

October 7, 2013

Lol, hear hear! It intrigues me why some believe that everyone MUST want what they have in the exact same pattern that they have? Some of us have had it and found it distasteful. Imagining that there are all these jealous haters is probably comforting, but FAR from the truth. I would be interested in figuring out how one gets to that level of delusion, imagining that everyone must want to be them? I would call it Paris Hilton syndrome if I could name it, lol.

None wants to be an OW. I doubt little girls aspire to be that to a man when they grow up. I would rather be alone than to be sneaking around and putting up with crumbs. Please stop acting like it is a banquet. While pretending I want nothing in life than to be another woman and potentially show my children and spouse such disrespect,disloyalty and pain. A lot of potential harm and fallout for something you do not want. The ultimate, "It is all about me and what I want"

Why would you put your kids at risk to find out about an affair, accidently or whichever way for something you do not see having an ultimate end of being together? Have you seen the movie "The Descendents". More reality how parent's "fun and games " can ruin a child when they find out. The child found out before the father.

October 7, 2013

And, she got the restraining order because she didn't want to talk about anything. That was kind of her MO. She was tired of him trying to talk to her about their relationship problems - as he had been trying for years to get her to engage in the relationship and she refused. It was simply her refusing further to attempt to address anything - and she was exhausted with hearing him try to communicate with her. He is a very willing communicator, but he can also be very insensitive and cruel (out of his own insecurities I think) when he does so - especially if his feelings are hurt or he is feeling rejected.

I also know kids that are friends with his kids. All of the kids talk about him, how much fun he is, how he interacts with his children and with them all the time. How they talk to him about their lives and relationships. So, it's not like I'm getting the information from him.

What world do you live in???

October 7, 2013

I think the most I've gathered from this thread is that no matter what some BS' do, there will be some APs who still hate them.

October 7, 2013

I too have many different t-shirts. Not all of them have looked good on me.

But if you wear it well...

October 7, 2013

solostand, I gotta write I like that you are honest w/your thoughts here no matter how awful I think they are. You don't contradict yourself (at least not of what I've read of your posts*).

October 7, 2013

Ok. so you may never want to be a wife again......but do you honestly want to be cheated on by your lover? Are you seriously trying to tell me that you want to share your mans penis with another woman (or women) for the rest of your life?

LOL! Me too!

As mentioned by others in this thread, it's cognitive dissonance. A famous, simple example of this is Aesop's "The Fox and the Grapes".

I think most OW do want to be with the MM. They may not want marriage, but most want to be his primary partner. Even those that accept that he's staying married are often very hurt if she discovers another OW.

I also think most single OW do think cheating is wrong. It's just that they "love" MM so much that they accept the relationships limitations.

Their need to be with MM is very strong. And often, their values, principles, boundaries & standards conflict with their desire for MM.

If they did not use cognitive dissonance as a coping skill, most OW would feel guilt, accountability, suspicion and disappointment. Those feelings would tarnish the love & their ideas about the relationship. So it is a useful tool, as it allows them to continue doing something that brings them great pleasure & happiness. Of course, it's not a conscious decision to do this. It's a default coping mechanism, usually developed in childhood. This thread would be a psych professor's dream.

Our mind has all sorts of ways to protect us. It's good to remember, though, that what helped us as children, can hinder us as adults.

October 7, 2013

Kids appear to be resilient because they often use coping mechanisms to deal with the lack of control that they have over their own lives. In childhood these mechanism help us to stay sane because we have no control over our environment.

They are not resilient because divorce is no big deal. They are resilient because they had no choice- they had to get through it one way or another.

These same "resilient" kids rely on those coping mechanisms as adults, leading them to make bad choices and accept circumstances that should not be tolerated. As adults, these skills become unhealthy because we have choices. We are not at the mercy of our parents anymore.

Sometimes these kids grow up to be a BS that accepts an unremorseful cheater back time & time again. Sometimes they are an OW that tolerates her role. Sometimes they are a WS that copes by escaping & self medicating. All of them make choices that indicate low self worth and unhealthy coping.

Our parents are our models for coping. If we don't learn healthy ways to deal with stress & adversity early, it becomes very hard to change the unhealthy "default". People that live like this can't see their faulty ways of dealing, though. Their circumstances often get blamed on bad luck, unforseen circumstances, or the actions of other people.

Older kids & adults can sometimes be better equipped to deal with a parents divorce, because their coping skills are better developed. Those that have poor coping skills will often still be negatively affected.

It's easy for older kids to say "My parents shouldn't have stayed together for me, I would've been fine", but they have NO IDEA how they would've turned out if it had happened differently. Kids raised in the security of a an intact family have no frame of reference to judge. Their opinion is coming from a mind that was protected from the realities being a child of divorce. Unless they were raised in an abusive or a neglectful environment, they most certainly benefited from their parents decision to raise them in an intact family.

October 7, 2013

"The heart wants what it wants."

You may remember those words. They're the excuse Woody Allen offered in 1992 for leaving his longtime lover to run off with her daughter. Even many of Allen’s fans were repulsed by the affair and by Allen’s cavalier attitude...

So Allen's heart got what it wanted. According to the unwritten laws of our culture--and according to the philosophy he expressed in that infamous sentence--he ought to be happy.

Only he's not, according to a new interview in the Washington Post. Interviewer David Segal quips that Allen's worldview "is so bereft of meaning, so godless and absurd, that the only proper response is to curl up on a sofa and howl for your mommy."

Yes but not to threadjack but isn't that who WA is? I perpetually sullen and intelligent person who if was actually happy would probably poof in a column of smoke. I thought he made millions off of never being happy.

October 7, 2013

He was faithful to me.

Why do you feel that his infidelity is circumstantial, and not character related?

October 7, 2013

You act as if there is some sort of indivisible line between childhood and adulthood. It's a long slow process of development with fits and starts. Places where the kids can learn to become good people.. the kind that avoid the worst mistakes we've made in our own lives. Yes, they will need to find out some things for themselves, but our job as parents is to set them on the past path forward.

The whole "children are resilient" bothers me. First, because usually it's spoken by people who have robbed their kids of a better life, and second because it's not entirely true. We've raised this topic in other forums, but it's clear that affairs and divorce have a huge impact on children, most often negative. Children of divorced parents tend to divorce, children of cheating parent tend to cheat. Should we just all throw our hands up in the air and say "oh well, **** happens"?

See in regards to the children are happy stance. Affairs and divorces are the by product of what impacts the kids the most. Parents who aren't happy, can't be happy, and can not figure out how to be content and/or make the best decisions that make for unhealthy children.

If people would stop having kids so young, hold off until late 30's, become financially stable and stay that way, and put together a marital foundation with counseling where there childhood issues have been addressed, they understand how to communicate properly, and they deal with their self esteem issues so we are witnesses the coping mechanisms of affairs, compulsive eating, excessive working out, yo you dieting, etc. Actually having a sense of self and satisfaction that is internally built.

Then maybe we will have happy kids. Outside of that it is rinse and repeat. I can say, growing up, I don' t know of any of my friends' parents that weren't either divorced or together but seemingly hate each other. My best friend and I used to joke that she must have been conceived by her parents falling on the stairs together or something. Those that actually had loving towards each other parents would be the freaks.

I can say growing up I can't recall of any marriages whether they be 10 years or 50 where the two people actually seemed to like each other. And in speaking to people over the years this isn't an anomaly.

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