Demonizing the wife

[whichwayisup]

Um, if these men are trainwrecks, then the BSs put up with stuff too. Are they in an affair fantasy? I mean, these guys aren't saints to either party - both women are experiencing their flaws and faults to different degrees, surely? I think this applies to both women, not solely the OWs. And, if the BSs know them so much better than the OWs do, how the hell do they not know about these "deep flaws" after years of living with them and having children with them? That's silly - the BSs are putting up with it too, and usually to a greater degree as it seems the OWs get the better bits and parts from reading here. No?

 

Before a D-day a BS is in the dark. And an OW knows of the daily lies he creates. Anyway, you know what I meant.

 

A WS who is more or less living a double life and has one BS at home who has no idea she is sharing him with someone else, shows me that the WS is selfish, and puts his needs above the rest of his family. A person capable of having sex, having an affair and then coming home and pretending all is OK, or even if they are able to 'forget and put the AP out of their heads' , is quite manipulative and messed up.

 

Once a D-day happens, and a wife or husband chooses to stay and work it out with the WS, so be it, they have the right to fight for who they married, had children with, shared a life with. If that cheating behaviour continues and the H/W still wants them, so be it, they now know what scums they're married to and maybe are too weak or too proud, or maybe just love them too much to divorce. Difference what is shared in an affair vs shared in marriage, the glue that holds two people together is usually much stronger in a marriage than an A.

[jlola]

Um, if these men are trainwrecks, then the BSs put up with stuff too. ?

 

Yes they do! My mother puts up with my trainwreck of a father. Hoping to see the man who obsessively chased her and vowed to be faithful to her. I believe the BS falls in love with a man she sees has integrity,trust and love. The OW initially meets the man who shows he can manipulate,deceive,lie and gaslight, but they think this is the false person. Both OW and BS's see what they want. BS believes the man she first met is the real person. OW believes the man she first met is not who he really is BS made him this way!

[ladydesigner]

That's why it's hard for me to believe that the BS would be unaware if her husband is a coward, or abusive, or whatever. I mean, how would she NOT know that? So, she is staying despite that. Because their bond is strong? But when it's an affair it's because they are weak? Huh?????

 

I was absolutely unaware my WH was THIS personality disordered until the A with MOW. I never had enough proof early on to prove an actual A so I could see my WH had poor boundaries. But the lack of empathy and emotion I didn't see it until after Dday. I have been with him every day for 17 years. If I knew my WH was like this I never would have married him in the first place.

 

I have a hard time with the staying despite that because right now I am.

[velvette]

What is inconsistent about it? I have never disagreed that he is emotionally and verbally abusive. That was my biggest issue with him aside from the fact that he was married. I have said I understand why his ex wife wanted the restraining order as I know him and he would have tried to talk to her about the things he needed/wanted to talk about - relentlessly. That does NOT make him a physical abuser and does not mean that she and his children were in any "danger" physically from him.

 

I didn't bring up anything about physical danger, but since you did. Emotional/verbal abuse is frequently a precursor to physical violence. Its also resorted to by men who have physically abused and been called on it by threat of arrest or actual arrest. They can manage to pull back on the physical abuse sometimes for years by substituting verbal abuse.

 

That's the theoretical. The reality is that you have said contact with him makes you physically ill. That's certainly a danger. Cant imagine what it was like living with him as his wife. Well actually I can because I have been there. The inconsistency is that knowing all this you still believe his story that she withheld sex from him causing him to need to cheat to avoid divorce. Hmmm.......does it not occur to you that there is more to this story? Like maybe she feels so unsafe around this man that the thought of sex with him is revolting?

 

As others have said emotional abuse can be as damaging as physical. And, he may not be hitting his children, but if he is/was abusing their mother he is setting them up to be abusers themselves or the victim of other abusers when they select romantic partners. That could certainly become hazardous to their health.

 

You know a lot of stuff about their R, but I don't think you have a clue what their relationship was really like. I think you are interpreting the facts incorrectly and not recognizing how seriously distorted the stuff coming from an abusers mouth usually is.

 

I can certainly understand your confusion. But, imo, you would be better served to understand why you let yourself get sucked into their dysfunction than to try to sort it out with only one side of the story.

[ForeverHopeful1]

Um, if these men are trainwrecks, then the BSs put up with stuff too. Are they in an affair fantasy? I mean, these guys aren't saints to either party - both women are experiencing their flaws and faults to different degrees, surely? I think this applies to both women, not solely the OWs. And, if the BSs know them so much better than the OWs do, how the hell do they not know about these "deep flaws" after years of living with them and having children with them? That's silly - the BSs are putting up with it too, and usually to a greater degree as it seems the OWs get the better bits and parts from reading here. No?

 

The biggest difference is you know what he is doing. Sneaking, cheating, sexting, sending pictures and emails, sharing intimate details. All while married to his wife. His BW only finds out if there is a dday. Cheaters tend to hide well and sneak around gracefully, making things at home look peachy. These wives dont necessarily know what they got themselves into until they find out about another woman. The OW knows all along how much of a lying, cheating, a-hole of a man he really is, as the act of cheating is disgusting. I dont know how people knowingly sleep with someone or have an A with someone who is married. Sick. Really sick. Why you would want a man you know does this to his wife ........ bleck.

 

From what I read here, OW get the short end of the stick... not the good bits. You just think theyre good bits because you havent woken up enough to value yourself yet. In due time most OW around here realize their MM was a disgusting pig. The BSs around here also know this. Some chose to stay and work through it. Others tossed the cheaters to the curb and left their stuff and OWs house so she can have him.

Edited October 8, 2013 by ForeverHopeful1

[ForeverHopeful1]

Again, his wife knew about me from the beginning. She was already withdrawn from the relationship prior to me. There was no Dday, there was not some big discovery that he was unhappy and the rug being pulled out from under her.

 

If they are disgusting pigs, why reconcile? That makes no sense.

 

I am with you on that. I don't know why people stay in some situations. I really have no clue. It is a deal breaker for me, personally. I would not stay married to a man who screwed around.

[ForeverHopeful1]

Again, his wife knew about me from the beginning. She was already withdrawn from the relationship prior to me. There was no Dday, there was not some big discovery that he was unhappy and the rug being pulled out from under her.

 

If they are disgusting pigs, why reconcile? That makes no sense.

 

I absolutely agree. IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! LOL I would divorce my husband, as that is a deal breaker for me. I cannot even imagine him doing that, but in the event he cheated, I would leave him. If he did it, he better hope I don't find out. I would look at him like he was a pig, and I would not recognise him. I don't think I would ever get over a betrayal like that from someone I am the closest to in this world. I know your situation is a little different. I get it. I am glad no one was harmed in the making of your relationship with your MM.

[velvette]

Because she backs up his "story". They agree. She agrees that she withdrew from the marriage for her own reasons - and he agrees that he became verbally/emotionally abusive in his frustration with it all.

 

 

Lots of married couples have a "story" they tell the outside world. Some are true some aren't. Some complete, some not. I think its fairly delusional, arrogant and/or naïve to think you know the story of another woman's marriage.

 

But, more importantly people don't "become" abusive all of a sudden out of the blue due to frustration. Abuse is about power and control. Its a habit usually based on FOO or other childhood abuse. Its also a choice, not a reaction. A choice designed to manipulate, control or overpower.

 

It's also naïve of you to believe given what you know that this man has not been abusive for his entire marriage. You would not see that from him because you weren't living with him and trust me, hes not going to spell it all out for you. This is a man who lied to you from the very beginning.

 

I think you are so busy trying to convince yourself of the story you want to believe that you are failing to see what you know.

Edited October 8, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed quote

[Quiet Storm]

Again, his wife knew about me from the beginning. She was already withdrawn from the relationship prior to me. There was no Dday, there was not some big discovery that he was unhappy and the rug being pulled out from under her.

 

If they are disgusting pigs, why reconcile? That makes no sense.

 

Because an affair is often handled in the same manner as an addiction. It is commonly viewed in reconciliation as a weakness or a sickness that can be overcome. The drug, or OW, or gambling, etc. is an unhealthy way of dealing with personal issues. The relationship between MM & OW is not given any merit by the BW. She views it as unhealthy, as a manifestation of his problems (often family of origin issues). Just like she would view his love of alcohol, opiates, or casinos.

 

Some people honor their vowels, and "for better or for worse" and "in sickness and in health" apply here.

[whichwayisup]

That's why it's hard for me to believe that the BS would be unaware if her husband is a coward, or abusive, or whatever. I mean, how would she NOT know that? So, she is staying despite that. Because their bond is strong? But when it's an affair it's because they are weak? Huh?????

 

Why are you hyping this up to such an extreme? what's with all the ????'s, calm down.

 

Anyway I really don't feel like getting dragged into going into detail and having my posts picked apart. You've got your opinion and thoughts, fine but please just keep it realistic.

[ForeverHopeful1]

The reality is he is in love with the OW, who's not all full of bitching and animosity. Not saying it's right. So he cake eats. BS still can get off on bossing him around, and the OW can get off on the chemistry and connection. You could look at it as win/win

 

This is disgusting. Win/win... wow.

[thefooloftheyear]

Not fer nothin....

 

 

Is there a "bad" woman on the entire planet? Well, surely there must be, no? Maybe I have to go to the Smithsonian to find one?

 

This thread can go to 200 pages and all the BS's will be the moms/wives of the century...Always there for their husband in every way..Attentive to every need and detail. Perfect..

 

That being said, no one(on either side) deserves to be cheated on, and no OW/OM has the right to disparage a BS, unless you have first hand knowledge of their so called "issues"...even then its bush league...Just worry about yourself.

 

OK....carry on..

 

TFY

[Got it]

So, do you believe that they both did the best that they could at the time? With what they had? And with the familial responsibilities that they were trying to juggle?

 

I know that they feel they did.

 

Do I feel they did the best they could have? No. They both could have worked more on them to become healthier more well adjusted adults and focused on a less toxic and stressful home life. But they feel they did the best they could. *Shrug* It is what it is.

[Got it]

Because an affair is often handled in the same manner as an addiction. It is commonly viewed in reconciliation as a weakness or a sickness that can be overcome. The drug, or OW, or gambling, etc. is an unhealthy way of dealing with personal issues. The relationship between MM & OW is not given any merit by the BW. She views it as unhealthy, as a manifestation of his problems (often family of origin issues). Just like she would view his love of alcohol, opiates, or casinos.

 

Some people honor their vowels, and "for better or for worse" and "in sickness and in health" apply here.

 

t/j - personally I am really all about the consonants! :laugh: (thought that was funny. )

[Ruffian1]

That being said, no one(on either side) deserves to be cheated on?

 

Is this statement wrong, tell me, who deserves to be cheated on? Really who does? I want to know.

 

Who is going to throw that first stone?

 

Not enough sex?? Leave first, then go have sex with whoever. Be honest about it. Prefer to cheat? then give the BS that option too (or option to get out before you do).

 

Most MM don't give the BS that option, because they don't want her to do it to them and more than likely, it will cause talk of D and totally disrupt his life-style / good family man thing he got going. (Most wives don't want an open M, not what they signed up for).

 

Most men would be against an open relationship if wife was in her reproductive age range but then want an open M once she is no longer able to reproduce (usually he is in middle age too).

 

Are you perfect? If not, then you deserve to be cheated on?

 

no one(on either side) deserves to be cheated on - -

 

There is the crux of the issue, no matter if you are MM, OW, MOW, MOM, BS. - - no matter how much a person can rationalize / justify it,

 

it is just WRONG to do to another person. It's the deception.

 

If the environment is that bad, leave first.

 

Oh, yeah, "the kids",

well if the BS is that bad, you need to get them out of that environment too At least on your scheduled visitation days!

 

Most of the time, it's not as bad as the cheaters make it out to be at home. They just want the best of both worlds.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Ruffian1

[thefooloftheyear]

Is this statement wrong, tell me, who deserves to be cheated on? Really who does? I want to know.

 

Who is going to throw that first stone?

 

Not enough sex?? Leave first, then go have sex with whoever. Be honest about it. Prefer to cheat? then give the BS that option too (or option to get out before you do).

 

Most MM don't give the BS that option, because they don't want her to do it to them and more than likely, it will cause talk of D and totally disrupt his life-style / good family man thing he got going. (Most wives don't want an open M, not what they signed up for).

 

Most men would be against an open relationship if wife was in her reproductive age range but then want an open M once she is no longer able to reproduce (usually he is in middle age too).

 

Are you perfect? If not, then you deserve to be cheated on?

 

no one(on either side) deserves to be cheated on - -

 

There is the crux of the issue, no matter if you are MM, OW, MOW, MOM, BS. - - no matter how much a person can rationalize / justify it,

 

it is just WRONG to do to another person. It's the deception.

 

If the environment is that bad, leave first.

 

Oh, yeah, "the kids",

well if the BS is that bad, you need to get them out of that environment too At least on your scheduled visitation days!

 

Most of the time, it's not as bad as the cheaters make it out to be at home. They just want the best of both worlds.

 

You dont get the whole point...

 

Infidelity is just one form of marital indiscretion...And its a bad one...No sane person would argue that...

 

But what do you say to the MM that has a wife that is abusive, passive aggressive, lazy, unattentive, disrespectful, etc...??

 

OK, just leave...??:laugh:

 

Lets just say some women know that the Marriage Certifcate is a trap-especially when kids are involved...And they use it to shyt all over their husbands. The laws in many states are such that the guy gets gutted like a Christmas turkey when its all over...Please dont argue to the contrary..I know some of you are brain surgeons, but other women have a hard time holding down a job waiting tables at Denny's...

 

Ill say it again, it doesnt justfy infidelity...

 

Im agreeing with y'all, so please...dont be quick to judge..I will never defend a cheater-ever.

 

Ive stated it before,...Ask a BS about their marriage and sex life when there is no OW and they will say its absolutely horrible.OW comes into the picture and everything was absolute bliss.

 

TFY

[Ruffian1]

I will never defend a cheater-ever.

 

Well, you kinda just did that.

 

Yeah the man gets "gutted" financially in the short run, but women, especially the Denny's waitress with the min-wage job that gets the shaft in the long-run. Women are usually awarded custody of the children. Because our social values suggest that children are best situated with their mothers, women often do the lion's share of child rearing in divorced families, even in shared custody cases.

 

The problem of lower earning power is worsened by child care responsibilities. They reduce a woman's available work hours, making it more difficult for her to increase her income through promotions, education, etc. This reduced earning capacity is not factored into a divorce. Ultimately, the overall economic quality of a man's life, based on earnings and amount spent on living expenses, increases after his divorce. He continues to earn more but bears fewer family expenses. The overall economic quality of a EXW life, after divorce, decreases. However, I believe this is declining due to expanded education and work options for women now.

 

Since mothers usually take some time away from their careers, (not all do) and since women still earn slightly less than men, it is fair to say that most women, even prior to divorce, have lower earning power than their male spouses.

 

So while the female brain surgeon is obviously better off, the waitress does not get a life-long free ride off her ex husband either. Permanent alimony is not given out freely these days especially in a short-term M.

 

Of course the type of women you reference, just using a child as a way to get a man to take care of her, Baby Daddy? well, there is no true marriage bond there, not love based, a trap perhaps, but then the man is better off getting himself out of that sooner,(even paying the price) than later once he realizes he has been "had".

[velvette]

You dont get the whole point...

 

Infidelity is just one form of marital indiscretion...And its a bad one...No sane person would argue that...

 

But what do you say to the MM that has a wife that is abusive, passive aggressive, lazy, unattentive, disrespectful, etc...??

 

OK, just leave...??:laugh:

 

Lets just say some women know that the Marriage Certifcate is a trap-especially when kids are involved...And they use it to shyt all over their husbands. The laws in many states are such that the guy gets gutted like a Christmas turkey when its all over...Please dont argue to the contrary..I know some of you are brain surgeons, but other women have a hard time holding down a job waiting tables at Denny's...

 

Ill say it again, it doesnt justfy infidelity...

 

Im agreeing with y'all, so please...dont be quick to judge..I will never defend a cheater-ever.

 

Ive stated it before,...Ask a BS about their marriage and sex life when there is no OW and they will say its absolutely horrible.OW comes into the picture and everything was absolute bliss.

 

TFY

 

I don't actually know any M like this. What would you advise to resolve this dilemma?

[thefooloftheyear]

Well, you kinda just did that.

 

Dont put words in my mouth...youre wrong

 

Yeah the man gets "gutted" financially in the short run, but women, especially the Denny's waitress with the min-wage job that gets the shaft in the long-run. Women are usually awarded custody of the children. Because our social values suggest that children are best situated with their mothers, women often do the lion's share of child rearing in divorced families, even in shared custody cases.

 

If the guy is a real earner, she will be cared for...the laws make sure of it.

 

The problem of lower earning power is worsened by child care responsibilities. They reduce a woman's available work hours, making it more difficult for her to increase her income through promotions, education, etc. This reduced earning capacity is not factored into a divorce. Ultimately, the overall economic quality of a man's life, based on earnings and amount spent on living expenses, increases after his divorce. He continues to earn more but bears fewer family expenses. The overall economic quality of a EXW life, after divorce, decreases. However, I believe this is declining due to expanded education and work options for women now.

 

Many women are given the family home by the MM after the divorce,,,Men do this to ensure their kids dont have too disturbed of a life post divorce..,Not all men are deadbeats..Most that I knoiw have given MORE than they were required to give. Then, while the divorced wife gets to stay in the nice family home, the divorced guy gets to live in the 300 square foot apartment above the local deli, eat off a hotplate and get a second job to afford the CS and alimony payments. This is real stuff....happens every day.

 

Since mothers usually take some time away from their careers, (not all do) and since women still earn slightly less than men, it is fair to say that most women, even prior to divorce, have lower earning power than their male spouses.

 

Some women NEVER had a career...Yes, it does happen..

 

So while the female brain surgeon is obviously better off, the waitress does not get a life-long free ride off her ex husband either. Permanent alimony is not given out freely these days especially in a short-term M.

 

Permanent alimony is quite common around here...I guy I know still writes his ex a check...he got divorced in 1968! And yes, she bangs him for increases whenever she can.

 

Of course the type of women you reference, just using a child as a way to get a man to take care of her, Baby Daddy? well, there is no true marriage bond there, not love based, a trap perhaps, but then the man is better off getting himself out of that sooner,(even paying the price) than later once he realizes he has been "had".

 

 

Thats life...everything just isnt as you say, unfortunately.

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't actually know any M like this. What would you advise to resolve this dilemma?

 

 

Just because you dont know anyone doesnt absolve its existence..

 

What would be my advise?

 

Just take it, like all other men do...its the "deal" you made....*shrug*

 

 

TFY

[velvette]

Just because you dont know anyone doesnt absolve its existence..

 

What would be my advise?

 

Just take it, like all other men do...its the "deal" you made....*shrug*

 

 

TFY

 

I didn't say they don't exist. Just saying having never observed a M like this my only advice would be divorce. Wondered what someone who is familiar with this type of M would advise.

 

Most of the dysfunctional M I've seen involved both people having issues or one partner having a glaring issue like addiction.

[velvette]

With the divorce rate what it is, I dare say we all know the stories of D people.

 

But, sometimes that's really what they are ......stories laden with all the angst their M and D contained.

 

Most of the men I know who complain loudly about what they have given up live very well, have new girlfriends or second wives, drive nice cars, live in nice places, have joint custody or see their children whenever they want to.

 

I think it is human nature to tell these stories. But again, statistics don't bear them out as most men come out financially ahead of their wives in divorce.

[Got it]

Well, you kinda just did that.

 

Yeah the man gets "gutted" financially in the short run, but women, especially the Denny's waitress with the min-wage job that gets the shaft in the long-run. Women are usually awarded custody of the children. Because our social values suggest that children are best situated with their mothers, women often do the lion's share of child rearing in divorced families, even in shared custody cases.

 

The problem of lower earning power is worsened by child care responsibilities. They reduce a woman's available work hours, making it more difficult for her to increase her income through promotions, education, etc. This reduced earning capacity is not factored into a divorce. Ultimately, the overall economic quality of a man's life, based on earnings and amount spent on living expenses, increases after his divorce. He continues to earn more but bears fewer family expenses. The overall economic quality of a EXW life, after divorce, decreases. However, I believe this is declining due to expanded education and work options for women now.

 

Since mothers usually take some time away from their careers, (not all do) and since women still earn slightly less than men, it is fair to say that most women, even prior to divorce, have lower earning power than their male spouses.

 

So while the female brain surgeon is obviously better off, the waitress does not get a life-long free ride off her ex husband either. Permanent alimony is not given out freely these days especially in a short-term M.

 

Of course the type of women you reference, just using a child as a way to get a man to take care of her, Baby Daddy? well, there is no true marriage bond there, not love based, a trap perhaps, but then the man is better off getting himself out of that sooner,(even paying the price) than later once he realizes he has been "had".

 

And I disagree with this. I think there are assumptions made that by the virtue of having a vagina you are a better parental figure as it is more "maternal" has grown this belief that one parent's better. And so the courts have followed suit. I think the times are showing that everyone is starting to look at this differently and the norm is now joint custody unlike a few decades ago where it would have been full custody for the mother. It is also factoring in that more mothers work outside the house which is changing the landscape.

 

I agree that children care will impact one's working hours and this cutting back on a career women need to look at very seriously well prior to having children. You need to wrap up your fiscal well being prior to not after the fact. Why people have an issue with pre-nups boggles me, especially women, but that is another discussion. I think both genders need to look at marriage, child rearing, etc. from the above point of view of both comments and not getting all fluffy on love and soul mates and lasting forever would far better equip them for the real world.

 

I agree that while women still tend to get more of the kids, they make less money and vice versa. It is which side you want to roll the dice.

 

We talk about "affair fog" here but the biggest fog of all is "Love fog" and the bs notion that it will do anything to ensure a happy tomorrow. You want a happy tomorrow, you better get your ducks in a row today. Hope for the best, prepare for the worse.

 

While I don't have kids, I do make the lion's share of the household wealth even without deducting alimony and child support that my husband pays. He pays far more and longer than required by law. He pays child support until 20 and alimony percentages based on the 20th birthday. He also assumed all debt including credit card, remaining amount from short selling the house, etc. This has allowed his ex wife to continue working part time if she so choices until these pieces run out at the youngest child's 20th birthday. Based on this he gets the kids every other weekend and split holidays. It is not fair because he would like to see them more but unfortunately the job he has had from prior to the divorce has always had a lot of travel so to support the family he has needed to work jobs that require long hours and travel. So unless there would be able to be weekly flexibility in the visitations he is limited. This was set up so they could afford what they had well prior to me being in the picture.

 

So I understand the more typical "male" sentiments on divorce. I know that if we were to have kids, I would not stop working longer than a year or so. We would look at even distribution of time off of work if so desired but my careers has just as good of a trajectory of upward mobility as his does (in fact right now I am in a far more senior status). Frankly, in my eyes, I would be a fool to walk away from the security of it and gamble on my family's future if there is a divorce/handicap/death. Both parents being able to take over the household finances is vital in this day and age.

 

In our situation, they actually have had some financial benefits from me being in the picture. I have contributed to their household income in the thousands for a few years now, has allowed him to take on the debt, pay her the 5000 a month, and still afford to live himself. This really has only been possible because of my salary and bonus.

 

I take my dad's approach with his divorce (and this is one area that I applaud him on), if you make the other parent's life easier even financially after a divorce you are lightening the load on the kids. And if other parent is happier, than the kids are happier. My father has no legal requirements to my mom but because he now pulls in a large income he has been able to help her buy a house (a couple times now) support mortgages when in transition, buy her a car, etc. And we do appreciate that.

 

So, in my eyes, my husband's dynamic with his ex wife has been in place for a long time now. She was afforded the ability to work part time and has not developed herself financially or educationally. So regardless of right or wrong I assume to continue to support her financially up till she is with someone who will do so. But outside of that I have no issue making her life a little easier because it make the kids live's easier as well. I like working, I have no issues working, and expect to work at this level for the foreseeable future. If we benefit I have no issues sharing the wealth. Regardless of us starting as an affair, this is what I view as appropriate and reasonable coming into a relationship that has a prior marriage/children.

[Got it]

I agree, but if people are doing the best that they can do, how can you fault them that? They are predicting, taking chances, trying to do the right thing. What might be right for their families is not necessarily going to be the best for their spouse - but placing your children's well being above your spouses is not a crime, in fact, it's something I think that most of us would encourage if there has to be a choice of that nature.

 

Your parents tried to do what was right for you. It turns out they were a bit off on what would have been "best" for you. But, humans are human - doing the best they can. It's easy to look back in hindsight and say, "it would have been better this way"... but we have NO way of knowing how it would have worked out had they done it differently.

 

Yeah sorry no. There is no way that they should have found that daily home life as acceptable and regardless of how much they felt they were "trying" they needed to do a reasonable assessment of it.

 

There is a saying my husband has, some people talk about things happening, some people watch things happen, some people make things happen.

 

My parents were not "making things happen" type of people. They talked the talk, they just didn't walk it. I also think they have minimized a great deal of what was going on and sugar coated it. It comes up in conversations with us that they are repeatedly shocked at how bad it was/how bad we saw it. It was, we just didn't have any reason to try and pretend that it was better than what it was. We had no reasons to want to sugar coat it.

[Owl]

All these stats suggest to me that he should change his focus...and work on fixing his marriage/home relationships.

 

Or...start putting some serious effort into figuring out how to be the exception to all those statistics.

 

If divorce is that bad...then perhaps he should fix his homelife, put some serious effort into getting his wife to participate...and end an affair that's likely to result in a divorce.

 

Conducting an affair in light of those statistics seems foolish at best.