serial muse Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 It's all semantics. I totally agree. What's the point of parsing words here? I can only think of one: He's setting the line for what's forgivable and what isn't = what's a true dealbreaker. For example, you say he's planning a bachelor party - and presumably, in his mind, as long as he doesn't actually have sex with any strippers, then he's only "disrespecting" you if he gets lap dances/makes out with them/whatever aside from actual p in v but not cheating on you? Meaning, you "have" to forgive him, even if you're "allowed" to be mad first? Well! That's something to look forward to. And he's right that getting pics from these other women can make it seem more "real" than traditional porn. Well, yippee, because that's exactly what you don't want: For it to be more real. That he doesn't see the inherent issue there is troublesome too. I don't know, if I were you I wouldn't want to hang on for more heartache. Perhaps someday he'll get his act together, but it doesn't sound like he's there yet. I suppose you might be the partner to help him get to that place, but not before a lot of angst and unhappiness on your part. I'm sorry.
Author confused8787 Posted October 4, 2013 Author Posted October 4, 2013 Wow. LOL. I did not expect such a heavy outcry against my offer for a second chance. Let me tell you why I think he has the POTENTIAL to change for HIMSELF (I never said I wanted to change him). His personal family circumstances led to his dropping out of school at 15. He got into some pretty crazy stuff and ended up wasting time and money on a lot of stupid things. He hit rock bottom and realized he wanted more out of life, he picked himself up and enrolled in community college and now he is on track to get into a top school with great grades! I know a lot of people do this these days, so please dont discount their effort as being "cliche". The reason I have so much respect for people who go back is because ... can you count the number of people in college who truly VALUE college? Most people are in there to party, have fun, get a degree, and get out. They dont value what is being taught of them. Or they get pushed into it by their parents. I know this personally because I have gone through a tier 1 college and grad school ... I RESPECT and GIVE PROPS to people who come back to school and want to better themselves. It is a hard change to make in ones life and it takes a lot of inner strength. He has this inner strength. This is why I feel he has the potential to change his thinking and behavior over time. Not for me, or for the relationship, but for himself. This is why I feel he deserves a second chance.
bentleychic Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 You know what? It doesn't matter how he sees it. What matters is how you see it. You need to state your boundaries. If he doesn't agree, then he isn't the right person for you and you need to find one that has boundaries that more match yours and vice versa. You guys are dating, it really doesn't matter who is right and wrong, it is a compatibility piece that is more important. I would strongly recommend casting that little fish loose. This exactly. So oral sex to him isn't cheating? A hand job isn't cheating? No, sorry. There's NWIH I could stick with someone that felt like penetration was the only form of cheating.
Author confused8787 Posted October 4, 2013 Author Posted October 4, 2013 This exactly. So oral sex to him isn't cheating? A hand job isn't cheating? No, sorry. There's NWIH I could stick with someone that felt like penetration was the only form of cheating. Wait ... did I not mention that he is willing to accept my boundaries? That he wants to sit down and clearly define them with me? Maybe I forgot to include that ... but he says he is open to anything as long as I don't take pure porn off the table (I wouldn't anyways cause I am ok with it). And yes, oral sex and a hand job are cheating. ANYTHING penetration related. A tongue kiss is cheating ... fingering is cheating ... but other things to him are "disrespectful". So by flirting with girls and looking at their pictures, he was disrespecting me and breaking my trust. But it wasnt cheating. However, he is reconsidering that right now. We are taking a bit of a break to think.
pteromom Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Since you want to stay with him, I would lay it out VERY clearly. Define cheating in very concrete terms. Include all acts, actions, words, whatever else you can think of. Because I get this feeling that he's going to do something else that wasn't covered and say "Oh, I didn't realize you had a problem with THAT." I agree with the people who say you guys have very different value systems. I don't think this is going to end well for you, so be careful and keep your eyes open.
mercuryshadow Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Please, don't hold your breath waiting for him to reevaluate these terms, honey. I made that mistake for about half a decade with a particular ex who I thought I was so in love with, but who time and time again "disrespected" me in many ways, and eventually ended up cheating on me. There are guys out there who will be totally respectful of you, and deserving of a committed relationship. This bf of yours, however, is not one of them.
veggirl Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Ah a college kid. You are wasting your time. He won't outgrow this sh*t for years.
miss_jaclynrae Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Posts like this are why I think it is ridiculous to always blame the man. OP, give him a second chance by all means, I HOPE it works out, but I DOUBT it to no end.
miss_jaclynrae Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Wow. LOL. I did not expect such a heavy outcry against my offer for a second chance. Let me tell you why I think he has the POTENTIAL to change for HIMSELF (I never said I wanted to change him). His personal family circumstances led to his dropping out of school at 15. He got into some pretty crazy stuff and ended up wasting time and money on a lot of stupid things. He hit rock bottom and realized he wanted more out of life, he picked himself up and enrolled in community college and now he is on track to get into a top school with great grades! I know a lot of people do this these days, so please dont discount their effort as being "cliche". The reason I have so much respect for people who go back is because ... can you count the number of people in college who truly VALUE college? Most people are in there to party, have fun, get a degree, and get out. They dont value what is being taught of them. Or they get pushed into it by their parents. I know this personally because I have gone through a tier 1 college and grad school ... I RESPECT and GIVE PROPS to people who come back to school and want to better themselves. It is a hard change to make in ones life and it takes a lot of inner strength. He has this inner strength. This is why I feel he has the potential to change his thinking and behavior over time. Not for me, or for the relationship, but for himself. This is why I feel he deserves a second chance. Oy vey. My man was a raging alcoholic for 10 years and is back in school... he still would NEVER pull that BS on me.
Author confused8787 Posted October 4, 2013 Author Posted October 4, 2013 I never said I excuse his behavior because he is hard working and turned his life around. I am just saying he has the potential to better himself if he wants it bad enough.
miss_jaclynrae Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 I never said I excuse his behavior because he is hard working and turned his life around. I am just saying he has the potential to better himself if he wants it bad enough. You are though, because you are planning on giving him a second chance... That is excusing the behavior. Anyone has the potential to do ANYTHING. That is such a cop out statement that holds 0 value. If you want to delude yourself though, by all means do it. I just would prepare for the worst and hope for the best. You obviously have this huge belief he will magically make a 180... but it doesn't work like that.
veggirl Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 I never said I excuse his behavior because he is hard working and turned his life around. I am just saying he has the potential to better himself if he wants it bad enough. People don't change over night. Are you ready for a bunch of relapses where you find out he has been doing this sh*t again?
serial muse Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 People don't change over night. Are you ready for a bunch of relapses where you find out he has been doing this sh*t again? This is what I'd be worried about. Sounds like his thoughts on the matter are the product of years. That's not going to change after one conversation, I'm afraid. As I said earlier, he might wise up at some point. But I fear it won't happen until your trust has been repeatedly broken. People tend to be hard-headed about these things, and it sounds like he was really all in with his wrongheaded notions. 1
Silly_Girl Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 I never said I excuse his behavior because he is hard working and turned his life around. I am just saying he has the potential to better himself if he wants it bad enough. Often it depends on what's in it for the person who's changing (or not).
whichwayisup Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 So giving him a second chance while putting the relationship on a probation almost is what I am considering ... Tell him your expectations, what your boundaries are, what you will and won't put up with. If he is willing to do his best and you feel he's worthy of a second chance then go for it. BUT, with that said, people don't change unless they truly want to. He has a habit now of going online and getting his ego fed by chatting up girls. That is totally inappropriate behaviour and it's disrespectful to you and what you two share. ALL that has to stop. Just don't give a him a 3rd and 4th chance if he messes up again. His belief system is engrained deep and it's so easy to say "I'll stop" and then fall back into old habits. He has to make CONTINUAL efforts and stay off the computer so he isn't tempted to do something stupid that will hurt you. Good luck.
CC12 Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 Wait ... did I not mention that he is willing to accept my boundaries? That he wants to sit down and clearly define them with me? Okay, so what are you going to tell him? What are your boundaries? While you're at it, what are the consequences of him violating those boundaries? And which of them are you willing to bend on if he counters with something like, "Oh, wait, you think sending cute and friendly texts to a coworker is a form of cheating? That doesn't make sense. I'm not allowed to have friends? Come on, I already promised to stop messaging random girls on Craigslist." And then he'll play with the meaning of words until their definitions don't matter anymore. He seems good at that. And you seem to want so badly to believe in him and you're quick to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think this really puts you at a disadvantage. Be careful, okay? Anyway, to address some of your original questions: He has to plan their bachelor party and I am already freaking out. About what? The strippers, right? He can plan a fun party without them. Or if it's expected to have them there, he can leave just before the part with the naked ladies. He can plan a very full evening of awesome bachelor activities, and towards the end of the night, hand the groom a stack of singles and put him and the party in a cab or limo to the strip club. If your boyfriend is really trying to repair broken trust and "disrespect" it's probably the proper thing for him to do. Should he not be trying to reassure me that everything will be ok? Yes, he should. Is he not doing that?
loveofhorses1970 Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 I've been one of those girls charmed by a guy like this. For me, it went from just talking ...innocent conversations, turned into sexual conversations, and he began sending pictures to me (not me to him) but his actions and words brought on an EA for me. It's manipulation in a magnified form. Once it's over, it's just a fantasy to him. But it's damaging. The game he is playing is very dangerous and easily turns into an EA. It's cheating, out and out. 1
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