Nice Guys Vs Jerks part MXXVIIXI Jerks are nice...to women they like.

October 1, 2013

I think I have split the atom of that issue. Basically "Jerks" are nice to women they like and jerky to everyone else. (Thus making the woman feel special that the guy is nice to her.) I mean legitimately nice to women they specifically want to get nasty with, and not anyone else. Thus, the jerk being nice to the woman has a certain value. This is also why those women stay with men that everyone else thinks are awful.

"nice guys" are either so nice to everyone that their being nice looses its meaning to women OR they are actually unconsciously hostile to women. They devalue their niceness by being nice to everyone no matter what. I don't mean just polite, I mean really nice. They turn the other cheek, never throw stones, and have no teeth. While that makes for a good priest it doesn't really attract most women.

It is worth noting that by jerk I don't mean a certain kind of total psycho. If you have never seen the movie "Fear" with Mark Wahlberg, Reese Witherspoon, and Alyssa Milano, then see it. Wahlberg's character is the qentissential "Jerk" alpha male that most people imagine. He is the or one of the leaders of a group of tough young men. He is "alpha" and kind of a genuine @$$ to everyone ... except the women he wants to ***k. What makes the character a real psycho is how he can't take rejection without resorting to violence. It could also be said that his character acts nice for a time to get a girl then shows his true colors once he's got a woman hooked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFOOOashME4

Women here wonder why this keeps coming up. There is a deep seated reason this comes up again and again. Women of a certain young adult, most fertile, age range seem to screw and have the babies of jerks more often than not. All hetero and bisexual males want, on an unconscious level, to be the father of as many of those babies as possible. That has been true for as long as a female laid a limited number of eggs on land. As base and barbaric as that sounds...it is the biological imperative. Just as women are driven to have the best genetic father(s) for their children. A ideal which will vary from woman to woman.

The bottom line is this:

Be a jerk to everyone but your really true friends and women you want to have as lovers. Then, when you are nice, it will mean that much more. Just don't go overboard and eff your girls best friend.

October 1, 2013

Why be a nice guy, jerky guy, nice girl, or jerky girl?

Why not just be an honorable person, be true to yourself (not try to fit into some "mold"), and do the respectful thing?

October 1, 2013

I have serious qualms about the quality of women you'll be attracting by being a jerk to other women. One of the wisest and truest statements I've ever heard: "If you want to know what someone's character truly is, you look at how they treat everyone, not just the person whose panties they want to get into (you)."

But if you think you'll be happy with those women, by all means...

October 1, 2013

Els has a great point about the quality of women you'll attract with this strategy.

Don't you know any stable couples in love? Find someone that has what you want and observe. Does the man fall into these stereotypes?

October 1, 2013

Why be a nice guy, jerky guy, nice girl, or jerky girl?

Why not just be an honorable person, be true to yourself (not try to fit into some "mold"), and do the respectful thing?

If only that worked. Being honorable now, as it likely did 70,000 years ago, only gets you eaten by lions.

This isn't about trying to fit into a mold. Jerks particularly don't try to fit anyone elses mold. They have their boundaries and enforce them against other men, and women they aren't into. So when they are into a woman they relax and are a bit nicer. Thus making the woman feel special that he's being nice to her. Understand?

October 1, 2013

Have you ever heard the saying "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free"?

Usually it's thought of as being about women giving sex away without commitments. It can also be about a man's niceness, protection, and resources. If that nice, honorable, "quality" man gives it all away what is the incentive to be in a relationship with a given man? The only thing left could be the man's looks and his genetic material which usually isn't enough to keep a woman around*.

Els has a great point about the quality of women you'll attract with this strategy.

Don't you know any stable couples in love? Find someone that has what you want and observe. Does the man fall into these stereotypes?

Yes. My father (married 40 years), my uncle (married 41 years), my brother in law (married 20 years), ... pretty much every married man.

They are jerks in the sense that they look out for their families first. They are nice and kind, to their families and friends and extended families, and that's it.

I am not talking about being actively mean to people just not trying to be nice to them too much.

*This perhaps relates to the fact that women are attracted to one kind of man when ovulating, and another kind the other four weeks of the month. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/26/ovulation-cycle-attraction-women-critical-unsexy-men-study_n_2024549.html

This article discusses why women like aggressive men. This is written by a woman mind you. In a sense it shows that every once in a while women want their hair pulled and to be made to say they want you and have their bottom slapped. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/head-games/201305/the-allure-aggressive-men

According to Parental Investment Theory, reproduction is much more costly for females than it is for males. While women invest nine months in a pregnancy, a man's initial contribution to parenthood boils down to just a few minutes. Thus, women need to be particularly selective when it comes to choosing a mate. Aside from a man’s resources, his genetic gifts are decisive in the selection process. After all, in our ancestors' unpredictable environment, a hardy constitution went a long way in fulfilling evolution's ultimate aims: survival and reproduction.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

October 1, 2013

If only that worked. Being honorable now, as it likely did 70,000 years ago, only gets you eaten by lions.

Sure hasn't eaten me yet.

This isn't about trying to fit into a mold. Jerks particularly don't try to fit anyone elses mold. They have their boundaries and enforce them against other men, and women they aren't into. So when they are into a woman they relax and are a bit nicer. Thus making the woman feel special that he's being nice to her. Understand?

Oh don't give me that crap. Most jerks are trying to fit the mold that society tells them gets them laid. Look at some of the advice around here. Wannabe PUA's giving advice to fit this mold that someone else tells them will get them women. It's pathetic.

Truly confident people are respectful people, as they don't feel the need to belittle people in order to get their point across. They also don't feel the need to play games to get someone interested, a confident person will be respectful and upfront with their actions.

A jerk doesn't suddenly become nice to certain women because they like them, an ass is an ass. Unless, of course, as I said... they were putting up a front and trying to fit a mold they believe will attract women. And when one really hooks them they let go of that jerk front they were faking and let their true colors out.

October 1, 2013

You're changing your statements way too much here.

"kind of a genuine @$$ to everyone... Be a jerk to everyone but your really true friends and women you want to have as lovers."

"They are jerks in the sense that they look out for their families first."

Which of these do you really mean?

If "being a jerk" to you means that you prioritize your family's welfare over strangers - if you could choose one and only one, between saving your partner's life and a stranger's, and you chose your partner's.... uh, sure, women desire 'jerks', I guess.

October 1, 2013

They are jerks in the sense that they look out for their families first. They are nice and kind, to their families and friends and extended families, and that's it.

I am not talking about being actively mean to people just not trying to be nice to them too much.

That's not being a jerk. That's loyalty. My husband and my father are both like that--protective of and loyal to friends and family (wife and children top priority), and not overly concerned with how people in the larger world view them. But they aren't jerks. They just aren't desperate to be liked by all.

Don't you know any couples in 20s or 30s who have the kind of relationship you'd like? If you think they don't exist, you're wrong.

October 1, 2013

Have you ever heard the saying "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free"?

Usually it's thought of as being about women giving sex away without commitments. It can also be about a man's niceness, protection, and resources. If that nice, honorable, "quality" man gives it all away what is the incentive to be in a relationship with a given man? The only thing left could be the man's looks and his genetic material which usually isn't enough to keep a woman around*.

Again, you're speaking of people forcing themselves to act a certain way. These people aren't "natural" jerks, they are trying to fit a mold. You speak with zero confidence here. Contrary to your belief, people actually can be themselves and find happy, respectful, and successful relationships without playing games.

They are jerks in the sense that they look out for their families first. They are nice and kind, to their families and friends and extended families, and that's it.

I am not talking about being actively mean to people just not trying to be nice to them too much.

Taking care of your own has zero to do with being a jerk. You can take care of the people closest to you while still being respectful to the rest of the world.

You shouldn't be "trying" to do anything but be yourself. And that takes no effort. People who make an effort to do something outside of what comes natural, for the approval of others, severly lack self confidence. In fact, it's pretty much the definition of a lack of confidence.

October 1, 2013

You're changing your statements way too much here.

"kind of a genuine @$$ to everyone... Be a jerk to everyone but your really true friends and women you want to have as lovers."

"They are jerks in the sense that they look out for their families first."

Which of these do you really mean?

If "being a jerk" to you means that you prioritize your family's welfare over strangers - if you could choose one and only one, between saving your partner's life and a stranger's, and you chose your partner's.... uh, sure, women desire 'jerks', I guess.

They aren't contradictory at all. Weather someone is a jerk or not is not an absolute it's a relative term.

If you are "looking out for your family first".... you may just have to:

If you are a landlord, you need to collect rent and evict those that don't pay. Even if they have no money, and four kids, and it's the middle of winter. To look out for and be nice to your own family... you have to be a jerk to someone elses.

Another example, if you are a Doctor... you have to heal the sick to make money... but then be willing to sue the healed if they don't pay you. You are the nice guy that cures their cancer, then the jerk that takes their house to both pay for their treatment,and buy a Jaguar for your college bound son.

See what I mean? Are the gentelmen described above either jerky to everyone or nice to everyone? No. They are jerky to everyone else and nice to their family friend and allies. Hence, there is a benefit to being on their good side.

October 1, 2013

From a nice guy point of view, a person who is authentic, being himself or herself and ARE NOT TRYING to PLEASE everyone (being nice) to MANIPULATE the response of people towards you is called, guess what? A JERK!

Perhaps many of you here are PEOPLE PLEASER; a fake and a great manipulator.

That is why nice guys and nice girls are absolutely boring and pathetic! And what is this nonesense about Jerks being nasty and bad? The reason they are bad because you people, the nice guys and nice gals, are looking through your distorted perception because if they treat everyone nice, then people who are not necessarily nice to everyone must be a jerk.

A person who is authentic, being him or herself is actually much happier than people who fake themselves to try and please everyone.

It is impossible to please everyone and get everyone to like you. If you have a tendency to do this, then the women you attract are usually GIGS. Women who are manipulators are GIGS and because you as a nice guy manipulates people to gain a favourable response out of them, you are also a manipulator. Since like attracts like, a manipulator attracts another manipulator.

Which is why sometimes, being honorable, authentic and true to yourself attracts people who are equally honest, authentic and true to themselves. You do not attract game players, GIGS and insecure women if you are authentic, secure and true to yourself because these people pleasers will label you as a jerk. My experience being true to myself, not please everyone because it takes so much energy out of me attracts some of the gorgeous happy secure women unlike my past where I attracted so many insecure people pleasing women as I was nicer then!

Edited October 1, 2013 by happydate

October 1, 2013

I think I have split the atom of that issue. Basically "Jerks" are nice to women they like and jerky to everyone else. (Thus making the woman feel special that the guy is nice to her.) I mean legitimately nice to women they specifically want to get nasty with, and not anyone else. Thus, the jerk being nice to the woman has a certain value. This is also why those women stay with men that everyone else thinks are awful.

I don't agree with being a jerk but I find the above statement to be true. These men are usually better behaved with women who don't tolerate it as freely, they tend to like them more too.

October 1, 2013

Again, you're speaking of people forcing themselves to act a certain way. These people aren't "natural" jerks, they are trying to fit a mold. You speak with zero confidence here. Contrary to your belief, people actually can be themselves and find happy, respectful, and successful relationships without playing games.

Taking care of your own has zero to do with being a jerk. You can take care of the people closest to you while still being respectful to the rest of the world.

You shouldn't be "trying" to do anything but be yourself. And that takes no effort. People who make an effort to do something outside of what comes natural, for the approval of others, severly lack self confidence. In fact, it's pretty much the definition of a lack of confidence.

Don't you know any couples in 20s or 30s who have the kind of relationship you'd like? If you think they don't exist, you're wrong.

@Philosopraptor this is for you too.

Not every thread I start is about me or what I want or what I think I have to do. Unless you forgot I actively violate gender norms. As I sit and write this I am wearing my favorite Victorias Secret "Pink" sweat suit. So I am certainly not trying to fit any mold.

I am a theorist. I look at the general trends of the world and hypothsize, theorize, and experiment or make new observations...then theorize some more. In other words... if I write about black holes it does not mean I'm sitting next to one.

That's not being a jerk. That's loyalty. My husband and my father are both like that--protective of and loyal to friends and family (wife and children top priority), and not overly concerned with how people in the larger world view them. But they aren't jerks. They just aren't desperate to be liked by all.

Ding ding ding ding! we have a winner.

Surely you see how in the process of being loyal to ones own family and friends one might have to be jerky to a whole lot of other people?

Consider this situation. You and your husband and two children are walking in the desert of death valley. It's 103 in the shade and there ain't no shade. Not a car for miles and you have just enough water for the four of you.

You find someone about to thirst to death. You have no way of helping them without endangering your own survival or the survival of your kids. Do you really deep down in dark places that aren't nice to talk about want your husband to give that person half of your families water to save that strangers life? In short, to be nice and loyal to you...means being a real jerk to that stranger.

Let me reiterate. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ME WHAT I WANT OR ANYTHING I AM TRYING TO DO. I AM SPEAKING IN HYPOTHETICAL GENERALITY. So please.... don't write statements like "Mrlonleyone you need to look for/do etc etc etc. that's not what this thread is about at all.

October 1, 2013

They aren't contradictory at all. Weather someone is a jerk or not is not an absolute it's a relative term.

If you are "looking out for your family first".... you may just have to:

If you are a landlord, you need to collect rent and evict those that don't pay. Even if they have no money, and four kids, and it's the middle of winter. To look out for and be nice to your own family... you have to be a jerk to someone elses.

Another example, if you are a Doctor... you have to heal the sick to make money... but then be willing to sue the healed if they don't pay you. You are the nice guy that cures their cancer, then the jerk that takes their house to both pay for their treatment,and buy a Jaguar for your college bound son.

See what I mean? Are the gentelmen described above either jerky to everyone or nice to everyone? No. They are jerky to everyone else and nice to their family friend and allies. Hence, there is a benefit to being on their good side.

You're not a jerk by honoring your agreement. In scenario one the lease would say that if you don't pay, you don't stay. Someone having that many issues would qualify for government assistance and would need to live in government approved housing.

In scenario two the doctor heals you, yes, but the hospital and insurance make the charges. Even so, the people complaining about their bills would be the jerk in this situation. You pay for services and they are not being honorable by complaining about paying for the services they asked to have done.

So in both scenarios, honoring the contract and understanding does not make someone a jerk. Every agreement has consequences if one does not hold up their end of the deal. If the homeowner kicked them out for a reason not in the contract, then he would be dishonorable and could be called a jerk. Had the doctor charged him for inferior work, then he would be dishonorable and could be called a jerk.

October 1, 2013

You're not a jerk by honoring your agreement. In scenario one the lease would say that if you don't pay, you don't stay. Someone having that many issues would qualify for government assistance and would need to live in government approved housing.

In scenario two the doctor heals you, yes, but the hospital and insurance make the charges. Even so, the people complaining about their bills would be the jerk in this situation. You pay for services and they are not being honorable by complaining about paying for the services they asked to have done.

So in both scenarios, honoring the contract and understanding does not make someone a jerk. Every agreement has consequences if one does not hold up their end of the deal. If the homeowner kicked them out for a reason not in the contract, then he would be dishonorable and could be called a jerk. Had the doctor charged him for inferior work, then he would be dishonorable and could be called a jerk.

If people made these calls based on logic and reason I would agree with you.

If the landlord throws a family with kids into the street in the middle of winter's cold... I don't know many people will see it as a matter of contract law.

As I recall from the health care debate back in 2009 and 2010 we in the US saw story after story about how greedy horrible doctors and hospitals bankrupted the uninsured.

What does all this have to do with dating in the 20's and 30's.

When a young 20's something woman picks a man she is looking for potential and security. If she wants kids she wants to know that her man can provide for her if she cannot work while pregnant. She wants to know that her hunter can hunt and protect her from other guys. She wants to know that he will be good to her, even as he has to take someone elseses lunch.

That's not PC. It's something that it's impolite to say and socially bad to admit. However the more I live the more I see it is true. When it comes to things that are as basic as sex and food we don't act so different than any other great ape.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

October 1, 2013

Your examples of jerk vs. nice represent very black and white thinking. Most situations are more gray, and it is possible to be kind, respectful, and helpful without making that person a priority over family.

People consider my H and dad very helpful and good men, even though they put their family first. People understand if you say, "Sorry, I'd love to help, but I have family responsibilities that weekend." How is that being a jerk?

If someone likes to stir up drama and gets worked up because he didn't attended their super-special event, that's their problem. He doesn't care.

October 1, 2013

The OP is correct to a point.

I know a good handful of couples that when they first met, the woman despised the guy. But then he showed that he can be nice and sensitive....and the women LOVE seeing that the guy changes for her.

Ask around, ask your friends, your relatives, etc.....Ask if they felt their SO was a jerk when they first met....I bet you will find it true more often than not.

I have heard the phrase "I hated him the first time we met" come of out the mouths of countless women.

October 1, 2013

When a young 20's something woman picks a man she is looking for potential and security. If she wants kids she wants to know that her man can provide for her if she cannot work while pregnant. She wants to know that her hunter can hunt and protect her from other guys. She wants to know that he will be good to her, even as he has to take someone elseses lunch.

That's not PC. It's something that it's impolite to say and socially bad to admit. However the more I live the more I see it is true. When it comes to things that are as basic as sex and food we don't act so different than any other great ape.

She also wants a man who knows how to succeed socially, so it's not the two of them against the world for the rest of their lives. Life is much easier with the support of a group. Who helps and supports a jerk?

October 1, 2013

I said in the very first post...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/428646-nice-guys-vs-jerks-part-mxxviixi-jerks-nice-women-they-like#post5243582

The bottom line is this:

Be a jerk to everyone but your really true friends and women you want to have as lovers. Then, when you are nice, it will mean that much more. Just don't go overboard and eff your girls best friend.

Your examples of jerk vs. nice represent very black and white thinking. Most situations are more gray, and it is possible to be kind, respectful, and helpful without making that person a priority over family..

That would be true if I thought one situation defined a person.

A person can be a total jerk towards one person or group and beloved by another person or group of people. No one is all things to all people...no one is just one thing to all people either.

People consider my H and dad very helpful and good men, even though they put their family first. People understand if you say, "Sorry, I'd love to help, but I have family responsibilities that weekend." How is that being a jerk?

If someone likes to stir up drama and gets worked up because he didn't attended their super-special event, that's their problem. He doesn't care.

"Sorry, I'd love to help, but I have family responsibilities that weekend." How is that being a jerk?"

Depends on what he didn't help with.

Sorry I'd love to help fix the roof on your house in the middle of winter.... but I have my own family to think about. The result is... the person you don't help freezes. That's jerky.

One cannot separate the not helping, or not going out of your way to help, from the result of inaction. Not doing something for someone can be just as aggressive and jerky a move as doing something actively hostile to them.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

October 1, 2013

Depends on what he didn't help with.

Sorry I'd love to help fix the roof on your house in the middle of winter.... but I have my own family to think about. The result is... the person you don't help freezes. That's jerky.

What woman wants that guy?

Extremes are unattractive on both ends.

October 1, 2013

What woman wants that guy?

Extremes are unattractive on both ends.

Well in half of the USA it gets that cold for nine months out of the year. It is not uncommon for there to be a blizzard, and for people to find themselves In life or death situations right in the heart of a city like Chicago.

Plenty of women want a man who can look out for himself, and his friends, and close allies when times are tough. He is nice to the people close to him and jerky to those that aren't. He draws boundaries and enforces them. He has resources and distributes them to those closest to him. Those he does not do anything for, or perhaps, takes things from, think such a man is a jerk.

The same person can be a jerk to one group and nice to another. Heck, the same action is jerky to one group and nice to another. (Think of basketball, or any sport. When Michael Jordan is on your team you like seeing him score a great deal more than when he's on the other team.)

October 1, 2013

Your examples don't make sense. You are proposing a person who will not help strangers in the cold as a jerk. Yet what "nice guy" will invite strangers off the streets of Chicago into their house for the night?

I guess everyone is a jerk?

We mostly help as we can. We care, and we do what is reasonable, but not at the risk of our own families.

October 1, 2013

Your examples don't make sense. You are proposing a person who will not help strangers in the cold as a jerk. Yet what "nice guy" will invite strangers off the streets of Chicago into their house for the night?

I guess everyone is a jerk?

We mostly help as we can. We care, and we do what is reasonable, but not at the risk of our own families.

Why not at the risk of you or your families welfare?

My examples are extreme to hi lite the point. More mundane versions of this happen every day (ie. the landlord throwing people out. One business driving the other out of business, one group of hunter gatherer's taking all the game from another..... and driving that compeating group to starvation. It is ugly but that is the way the world works.

In such a world a woman can be nurturing and tender hearted because the men have to be hard hearted and ruthless enough to protect them. Perhaps if we live in technology induced abundance and a predator free environment for 100,000 more years what you are saying will be more than words. For now we are but clothed cavemen. (If the electricity went out we would all be right back to bashing eachother over the head....remember how New Orelans came apart so quickly.)

October 1, 2013

I think I have split the atom of that issue. Basically "Jerks" are nice to women they like and jerky to everyone else. (Thus making the woman feel special that the guy is nice to her.)

You make people sound like cartoon characters! I don't buy it! ...I believe i'm a decent person and most of the time am a nice guy - I can go over and above for people but im human, I see red sometimes and when I do I can be a jerk - a massive one!

All this are you a nice guy or you a jerk, good guy or a bad boy? Is, IMHO, b******* I cant be the only guy in the world where the boarders aren't that clean cut! Im whatever I need to be depending on what the situation calls on me to be.

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Nice Guys Vs Jerks part MXXVIIXI Jerks are nice...to women they like.

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