NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 My boyfriend has never been to Thailand, never seen prostitutes, and certainly has never disrespected me the way your ex-boyfriend openly did with you. Because no man who never did those aforementioned things has ever cheated or lied to their SO, right? all of your perception is based on the terrible actions of your boyfriend. Actually, this has nothing to do with my boyfriend's actions. It has to do with your decision to stick your head into the sand and dismiss clear red flags and take his word for it (when he demonstrated the willingness to lie on more than 1 occasion -- for whatever reason, even if out of innocent stupidity).
Mascara Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I don't actually think anyone is saying he's definitely cheating. But he appears to have the personality for it - which is why I find your total trust a bit odd. And he's certainly both a liar and a manipulator, you can't deny that. 2
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 I find it bizarre that you think it's normal for a woman to ask a man who has a partner, to go see a show with her. I for one do not do that with my (male) friends, or if I were to ask them via text, I'd use plural (maybe you and your partner/gf can join me ?). According to whom. It's a gallery show. You walk around, look at paintings, in crowds, loud music. The show ends at 6:30 PM. According to his texts messages with her and his friends. I did not only take his words into consideration. Without me asking he flipped the phone.
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 And I'll add: At best, there is no (definite) evidence that he cheated. There is evidence that he lied, and a lot of pointers that his explanations make no sense. Which to me indicates there might be more to the story than just lying because he's afraid you might get upset that he has a female friend. So he's not afraid that you'll get upset that he's lied, but that you'll get upset that he has a female friend? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Up to you if you want to keep sticking your head in the sand. But you really want others to confirm your beliefs, and you won't get that from me. All I was saying is that you should keep an open mind to the possibility that there is more to this story. But you want to convince yourself (and others here), that your boyfriend can NEVER cheat. OK dear. Say / believe what you want. 2
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 It's a gallery show. You walk around, look at paintings, in crowds, loud music. The show ends at 6:30 PM. Oh OK, so it's normal for a woman to ask another man who has a gf, to hang out with her at an art gallery. An art gallery is such an innocent location after all, so it must be safe, right ? Great. I'll ask my male friends to hang out with me (alone) at the art gallery all the time now.
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 I don't actually think anyone is saying he's definitely cheating. But he appears to have the personality for it - which is why I find your total trust a bit odd. And he's certainly both a liar and a manipulator, you can't deny that. And that is precisely my point. He has not cheated, and I wish to be fair and not call someone who hasn't cheated, a cheater. Simple matter of principle. Probably why I can't bear reading NoMoreJerks' posts. They're missing the point. Hence, there lies the issue. He said that he deeply regrets the way he handled it. And in retrospect, he wouldn't do it. At that time, though, he felt he wasn't lying as he knew I knew.
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 You know, I even get that a woman might be friends with a guy and ask him out to dinner or coffee to catch up. But art gallery? To me, that sounds a whole lot more like a date / an activity together, than just 2 friends catching up. But OK, you think that's fine, it's up to you to set standards for how you want to be treated. If you think it's OK for your boyfriend to go on art gallery dates with other women, then maybe you should tell him that, if you think he was just afraid of your reaction and that is why he deleted the mssges / lied / acted so bizarrely.
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I've never been too keen on my SO dating others, myself. lol, except if they go to an art gallery, right? 1
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 Oh OK, so it's normal for a woman to ask another man who has a gf, to hang out with her at an art gallery. An art gallery is such an innocent location after all, so it must be safe, right ? Great. I'll ask my male friends to hang out with me (alone) at the art gallery all the time now. I have no issues with such things, honestly. I believe in platonic friendship between people of the opposite sex. I have many of such friendships myself. As long as you make sure that your significant other knows your whereabouts and that the shows occurs during appropriate times and has appropriate contents, I am fine with it. Moreover, both my boyfriend and I do not have a lot of good friends of the opposite sex. Between us we have about 5 or 6.
lindsay1990 Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 You know, I even get that a woman might be friends with a guy and ask him out to dinner or coffee to catch up. But art gallery? To me, that sounds a whole lot more like a date / an activity together, than just 2 friends catching up. But OK, you think that's fine, it's up to you to set standards for how you want to be treated. If you think it's OK for your boyfriend to go on art gallery dates with other women, then maybe you should tell him that, if you think he was just afraid of your reaction and that is why he deleted the mssges / lied / acted so bizarrely. I don't know about this one. I would actually invite a guy friend to an activity, particularly if I didn't wa t to go alone than to coffee or lunch. Anything that is primarily talking or bonding seems more suspicious or unnecessary to me. Nothing inherently wrong with either, but I feel that an afternoon activity seems a little more benevolent. HOWEVER my friend would definitely be welcome to bring his gf, and I have insisted on this once.
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I have no issues with such things, honestly. I believe in platonic friendship between people of the opposite sex. I have many of such friendships myself. As long as you make sure that your significant other knows your whereabouts and that the shows occurs during appropriate times and has appropriate contents, I am fine with it. Moreover, both my boyfriend and I do not have a lot of good friends of the opposite sex. Between us we have about 5 or 6. 1) He did not let you know about his whereabouts. 2) He denied he was with a female friend. 3) Going to dinner or coffee with people of the opposite sex (alone) , to catch up, is one thing (and even then, it doesn't mean everything is transparent even if your partner told you that's where he's going -- as I stated, this happens a lot, it was done by my friend , to his wife). Going on a date/activity to an art gallery or the movies, is a different animal. It's not something that normal people would accept their partners doing, unless they are in some shape and form also asked. It's not normal behavior for a female who is completely uninterested in a man, to ask him to accompany her to an art gallery. Sorry, that's just not normal behavior whichever way you cut it. But again, if this works for you, you should outright tell you boyfriend that he can feel free to go out with other women and do activities with them in your absence.
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 You know, I even get that a woman might be friends with a guy and ask him out to dinner or coffee to catch up. But art gallery? To me, that sounds a whole lot more like a date / an activity together, than just 2 friends catching up. But OK, you think that's fine, it's up to you to set standards for how you want to be treated. If you think it's OK for your boyfriend to go on art gallery dates with other women, then maybe you should tell him that, if you think he was just afraid of your reaction and that is why he deleted the mssges / lied / acted so bizarrely. Okay. You are making this personal. I am not liking it. Please, from now on refrain to comment on this thread. You seem to know awfully a whole lot about me and "the way I want to be treated" from a simple thread. I guess you haven't read my other posts. And that's fine. As for my standards, dear, don't you worry too much about it. The fact that up to this day, I have made clear my wants and desires to the world surrounding me says a whole lot more than what you and your all wrapped up vision of the world and relationship will. And yes, he was the one to suggest only to get happy hour drinks. Fact. Cheers and be happy.
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I don't know about this one. I would actually invite a guy friend to an activity, particularly if I didn't wa t to go alone than to coffee or lunch. Anything that is primarily talking or bonding seems more suspicious or unnecessary to me. Nothing inherently wrong with either, but I feel that an afternoon activity seems a little more benevolent. HOWEVER my friend would definitely be welcome to bring his gf, and I have insisted on this once. Honestly, it's bizarre for a woman to go on coffee or dinner dates with another man, unless they are just having lunch together at their workplace. I find it odd to ask my male friends who have gfs, if they want to go and have dinner or a coffee. What's the point? I haven't even done that when I was about to move to another city. If I do that, I'll make sure to ask them to bring their gf too. Unless I don't know they have a gf. If I don't know they have a gf, I don't know them well enough to have coffee/dinner with them in the first place unless I am interested in them/getting to know them; or, he is not being transparent, in the hopes of getting something going on with me. I don't even know if this woman knew that OP's bf had a gf. Not by the sounds of it. And yes, there might be more talking/bonding over coffee or dinner, but an activity like that, indicates that you are more comfortable around a man than you would be if you just went for coffee/dinner with him. Which might indicate that there is something going on between you two -- at least just flirtation or something along those lines. And maybe that a coffee date or other meetups have happened previously. You don't just ask someone you havent seen in ages, to go to an art gallery with you. Do you?
KatZee Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 I agree with this point: "At best, he's not a cheater. But you have to admit he's a liar and a manipulator." And those two things are not good character traits no matter which way you cut it. 3
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 ^ yeah, exactly. I think this is the bottom line. No one is telling OP that she should dump her bf, distrust him completely now, or whatever. All we're saying is that his behavior does not inspire trust, and to keep eyes/mind/ears open to the possibility that there's more to this than white lies. That is all. I have no idea why OP keeps getting all angry because of this. Clearly, she does not even want to entertain that possibility, which to me indicates a strong tendency to sticking one's head in the sand because of her fear of potentially finding out something painful. *shrug*
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 ^ yeah, exactly. I think this is the bottom line. No one is telling OP that she should dump her bf, distrust him completely now, or whatever. All we're saying is that his behavior does not inspire trust, and to keep eyes/mind/ears open to the possibility that there's more to this than white lies. That is all. I have no idea why OP keeps getting all angry because of this. Clearly, she does not even want to entertain that possibility, which to me indicates a strong tendency to sticking one's head in the sand because of her fear of potentially finding out something painful. *shrug* Nope. What YOU were saying is that he HAS cheated. Without the shred of a doubt. And you know so, because, well, your boyfriend did this, and did that, and a married friend of yours did this and did that, and going to a art gallery means that there MUST be something there, and so on and so on... And what I was trying to make you understand is that he HASN'T cheated. BUT that his behavior and the way he handled this whole ordeal is COMPLETELY, ABSOLUTELY WRONG. And it is THIS BEHAVIOR that has me shocked and worried and NOT the fact that he might have cheated or not. Simply put, I do not have to worry about the action of cheating that might have already happened ( It hasn't : factual evidence) but at its possibility of happening in the FUTURE. So what I am trying to get at the bottom of is this: IS MY BOYFRIEND A FUNDAMENTALLY MANIPULATIVE AND LYING PERSON or IS THIS JUST A HORRIBLE LAPSE OF JUDGEMENT THAT IS NOT TO CHARACTERIZE HIS WHOLE BEING? And to come to this conclusion I have to take into account his past and present actions... Understood NOW? And, yeah. Also notice that you seem to be the one I seem to have an issue with. And that is because you seem to think you detain the whole and categorical answers... Which you do not.
2sunny Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 His behavior was secretive, sneaky and omitted his truth. The other gal never invited both of you out - and he didn't intend to tell you. She's no friend of your r - that is obvious. But now, has progress been made about how he is to handle honesty? What has he offered to change? IF he hasn't offered complete honesty moving forward - how can you be sure he won't/doesn't have other women he intends to communicate with/see and poses them as a male contact in corresponding with them? IF he's not OFFERING honesty - it's wasted effort to CHASE his truth! 2
Mascara Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 he felt he wasn't lying as he knew I knew. He is LYING about knowing. This is what we're all trying to say to you. Instead of owning his part and admitting he should have told you, he told another lie and pretended it was all a trick. NOBODY. DOES. THAT. 3
Mascara Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 IF he's not OFFERING honesty - it's wasted effort to CHASE his truth! This is key. If he's not prepared to admit that he lied about "setting a trap" for you - and it is a lie, he just didn't know what else to say when you confronted him - I'd be moving on from him.
NoMoreJerks Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 So what I am trying to get at the bottom of is this: IS MY BOYFRIEND A FUNDAMENTALLY MANIPULATIVE AND LYING PERSON or IS THIS JUST A HORRIBLE LAPSE OF JUDGEMENT THAT IS NOT TO CHARACTERIZE HIS WHOLE BEING? And clearly, you have decided this was a horrible lapse of judgment. On your part. OK.... as you wish...
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 And clearly, you have decided this was a horrible lapse of judgment. On your part. OK.... as you wish... You must have issues with reading comprehension. It's not possible otherwise. I mean, I can hardly be clearer. Who said I have decided it was a lapse of judgment? It is still to be determined, hence a question without an answer. I am taking time off. Not seeing him, not talking to him. I am taking time off, to let my feelings calm down, let the whole emotional whirl die down, so I can finally gather all my senses and reach a conclusion that is based on reality and not my emotional perception or his words. Unlike you, I praise myself on being able to detach myself from whatever situation, take time off and come back to it to analyze it with fresh and logical eyes. I hate jumping to conclusions, blindly assess a situation based on what I think I know, or worst judge a human being based on some actions that another human being has committed. To me that is lacking perspective, intelligence and emotional maturity. And I'll repeat myself again: You shall not worry THIS much and so passionately about my situation. I came here to simply gather some ideas; you, one the other, seem willing to achieve a crusade against cheaters, and have the audacity to determine what I need, how I should behave, and, most importantly, you know HOW a cheater cheats, WHEN a cheater cheats and WHY a cheater cheats. All I'm trying to say is that YES, your ex cheated. Sorry. BUT, this is a different situation, with different elements, with different explications and as such, in principle, I WILL NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. What's so hard to understand for God's Sake?
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 This is key. If he's not prepared to admit that he lied about "setting a trap" for you - and it is a lie, he just didn't know what else to say when you confronted him - I'd be moving on from him. And that's the point. He has accepted that he deceived me, that this situation would have never happened if he had simply asked if I had gone through his phone.
Mascara Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 And that's the point. He has accepted that he deceived me, that this situation would have never happened if he had simply asked if I had gone through his phone. That's not what I'm talking about! has he admitted that, he didn't know you'd gone through his phone, he just made that up when you confronted him? That is the lie OP. Are you deliberately misunderstanding? I'll try again. HE LIED ABOUT KNOWING YOU HAD BEEN THROUGH HIS PHONE. HE LIED ABOUT SETTING YOU UP. HE DID NOT SET YOU UP. THAT WAS A LIE. TO SAVE FACE WHEN YOU CONFRONTED HIM. Not shouting, caps for emphasis. 6
ExpatInItaly Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 OP, have you ever been overly jealous or accusatory of him in the past?
Author Auguria Posted October 2, 2013 Author Posted October 2, 2013 OP, have you ever been overly jealous or accusatory of him in the past? Jealous ? No. He has never given me any reason to be jealous. Accusatory? As far as our relationship is concerned, no. Again, I have never had any issues of this sort with him. Ever.
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