Overacting at Boyfriend lying? I think not!

[KatZee]

But even in those moments where I feel " Ah! I can't trust him!", I know deep down that were I to put him in a room full of women, he wouldn't falter.

 

Who are you here to prove this to? Us or yourself? You do a whole lot of defending of this guy. You seem to continue wanting to drill it into every post that he would "never ever" cheat.

 

Don't think you know people so well, they will come back and surprise you every time. Just watch his behavior.

[Els]

Okay... so... what are you going to do?

[NoMoreJerks]

Where has your fire gone from the start of the thread? You were bang on the money with your first instincts.

 

Classic signs and progression - Fury. Anger. Determination that you are strong and you are done. Sharing with people who tell you you're doing the right thing. Anger subsides and hurt sets in. Pain. Disbelief. Wishing you could go back to how it was. But how can you, unless he gives a way for it never to have happened? He gives a way out, with an excuse that is straight from Cheaters / Potential Cheaters 101. You grasp it with both hands because you want to. Justification. Taking some of the blame. Lashing out at people who challenge it.

 

Going from "momma didn't raise no fool" to "it's ok, it was my fault a bit, he explained it all" in a few days.

 

Clearly, you're going to stay with him. And again, I get that. All I would say is.... keep an open mind and your eyes open.

Denial is a fabulous thing, isn't it? The truth can be staring you right in the face but she would still deny seeing it. It's a psychological thing. Almost like stockholm syndrome.

[KatZee]

Denial is a fabulous thing, isn't it? The truth can be staring you right in the face but she would still deny seeing it. It's a psychological thing. Almost like stockholm syndrome.

 

Seriously.

 

I mean you say over and over how trustworthy this guy is, how "transparent" he is, but just think logically. Would someone, who has absolutely NOTHING to hide, lie about what he was doing, and subsequently delete all communication with that person from his phone *just in case* you were to see it?

 

You can't use the words "honest" and "transparent" and "liar" in the same sentence.

[Auguria]

Seriously.

 

I mean you say over and over how trustworthy this guy is, how "transparent" he is, but just think logically. Would someone, who has absolutely NOTHING to hide, lie about what he was doing, and subsequently delete all communication with that person from his phone *just in case* you were to see it?

 

You can't use the words "honest" and "transparent" and "liar" in the same sentence.

 

No wonder you guys are so sure of yourselves...

You are not reading my posts. I wouldn't really mind it if it wasn't for your forceful tone and misunderstanding crucial parts of my story.

 

And no one is taking responsability away or accepting anything from him. My desire is to find the truth. Not jump to conclusion, not justify, simply get what happened. And to know that I, we need to talk.

[Auguria]

Denial is a fabulous thing, isn't it? The truth can be staring you right in the face but she would still deny seeing it. It's a psychological thing. Almost like stockholm syndrome.

 

Please, you are starting to bother me. As you are not reading my post, and transposing my boyfriend to yours. It suffices to read your posts in my thread and understand that your opinions while perfectly acceptable are tainted with your views of your failure of relationship. You do not cease talking about your boyfriend in a thread about my relationship. As such your view of men is not an objective one but it is crucially painted through the vile actions of your ex boyfriend. I'd like to see my boyfriend as an individual. While his actions highly surprised me, his expkication stands the ground. Please, re-read my posts and do not project your feelings and hate of your ex unto my relationship. You are discarding informations that I am giving, so my story can fit your perception of men's behavior.

[btc8]

Denial is a fabulous thing, isn't it? The truth can be staring you right in the face but she would still deny seeing it. It's a psychological thing. Almost like stockholm syndrome.

 

Denial is not anything like Stockholm at all.

 

And even if she is in denial about the situation, what point are you hoping to make? I told you so?

 

Denial is a coping mechanism, and the OP needs to come to her own conclusions even if everyone's advice may be falling on deaf ears at this point.

[NoMoreJerks]

Denial is not anything like Stockholm at all.

 

And even if she is in denial about the situation, what point are you hoping to make? I told you so?

 

Denial is a coping mechanism, and the OP needs to come to her own conclusions even if everyone's advice may be falling on deaf ears at this point.

I am not hoping to make a point. I am just stating that she is in denial. Yes, it is a coping mechanism, and so is stockholm syndrome. They are very similar, in that sense. When you face something incomprehensible, your brain wants to make you not see it (or to sympathize with the person who hurt you), because it's easier to cope that way.

 

Nothing anyone says here will make her see the truth or to even entertain that possibility. She will have to do it in her own time. I know I did.

[NoMoreJerks]

Please, you are starting to bother me. As you are not reading my post, and transposing my boyfriend to yours. It suffices to read your posts in my thread and understand that your opinions while perfectly acceptable are tainted with your views of your failure of relationship. You do not cease talking about your boyfriend in a thread about my relationship. As such your view of men is not an objective one but it is crucially painted through the vile actions of your ex boyfriend. I'd like to see my boyfriend as an individual. While his actions highly surprised me, his expkication stands the ground. Please, re-read my posts and do not project your feelings and hate of your ex unto my relationship. You are discarding informations that I am giving, so my story can fit your perception of men's behavior.

There was no failure of my 'relationship'. I was cheated on. If you want to dismiss my advice based on the failure of my relationship or imply that I am trying to get you to do something because I want yours to fail too because I am jaded, then you really need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

 

I am merely pointing out that you should not be so quick to dismiss your boyfriend's ability to cheat and to create a cover-up story and manipulate you. I felt "mighty" and confident myself, but the mighty do fall. Let's hope you don't, but I'd be aware of that possibility, is all I am saying.

 

I have zero hatred of my ex. I learned from the experience, rather than deciding to stick my head in the sand because it's nicer and easier and more comfortable that way. If you want to stick your head in the sand based on some explanation that you readily bought, feel free. I am not telling you to continue being suspicious of your bf. But it seems you are so desperate to believe that he's incapable of ever cheating on you. I'd think again if I were you. This has zero to do with my 'ex' and everything to do with your unhealthy behavior. And you came here for advice. If you don't like what I have to say (and I have said it in the nicest way possible, without flaming you), then you can always put me on ignore. No?

 

Best of luck. I really hope for your own sake that you are right and I am wrong. But I have learned never to ignore my gut feeling.

[NoMoreJerks]

As he turns out, he actually met up with her for less than half an hour after work, simply for a farewell drink.

So he meets up with a "lady friend" for a "drink", doesn't let you know, deletes the text mssg history so that you wouldn't find out... and that is transparent how exactly ?

 

he politely declined as he had other plans with his male friends and wanted to " fall asleep next to me at a reasonable time"... It is all verifiable.

How is it verifiable? Were you there? Did you have a recording of their conversations? Did you even have any evidence he hung out/got drunk with his friends?

 

It was a perfectly a friendly conversation, and so I did not feel the need to look further.

Bullsh*t . You didn't want to see anything that would've confirmed your suspicions. No one snoops on her bf's phone because she's suspicious he's texting another woman, and then not look at all the texts.

 

What I didn't know is that this female friend had also told him about this show during their text conversation. Thus, unbeknownst to me, he put two and two together and decided that the best way to go about it was to pretend this female friend was a guy, so I could confess...

Wait, what?? This makes no sense. The way I read this: he thought you found out about him hanging out with his female "friend", and gave himself away -- but only went so far as to admit that he had met up with someone, except it was a guy (he didn't want to risk giving himself completely away in case he was wrong and it turned out to be a coincidence that you suggested the same show). He lied about the person being a guy. On top of not telling you about hanging out with that woman and god-knows whatever else he was doing with/to her other than hanging out.

 

And what exactly did he get you to "confess"? Sounds like he THOUGHT you had snooped on his phone when you suggested seeing that show, then gave himself away, and now you think he did all that because he knew you had snooped and it was his way of getting you to confess. Huh?

 

I am quite honestly appalled that he preferred playing a game rather directly ask me if I had looked through his text messages.

He did not play a game -- the reason he did not directly ask if you had looked through his messages is that he thought you had , because you mentioned that show. He then thought denial was futile, and instead decided to deny that it was a woman he had been texting.

 

Especially since I was not affected by his conversation with this female friend and so, there was no reason for me to be mad at him.

OK, so it's perfectly OK for him to be going out with random women unbeknownst to you... on nights out with his buddies... because it doesn't "affect" you?? Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

how do you draw such conclusions? time well tell if he's trustworthy.

Based on the quotes I quoted from her post. She has no "verification" other than her boyfriend's words and her blind belief that he is telling her the truth. When in fact there is more than enough evidence that he was not transparent to her about meeting this woman and went even a step further and lied about her being a man. She has conveniently fabricated the story in her head that he only lied about that woman being a man, in order to get her to confess. Seriously, who does that? Even if he did that, only someone playing games would do that sort of manipulation in order to get her to "confess". And what's the point of manipulating her to confess, if he knows she's snooped? He could've just confronted her about it. On what grounds does she then selectively believe the rest of his story? He's either transparent or he's not. Which is it?

 

Time will NOT tell if he's trustworthy. Keeping an open eye and an open mind to the possibility of him playing games and sniffing around, will tell if he's trustworthy. At this point, his proven willingness to lie does not inspire much trust. And for all we know, it may have been a "one-off" and the woman is now traveling so we won't hear any more about this or any future scenarios. But it doesn't mean he didn't sniff around or sleep with her. And is she willing to accept it if he cheated, because now she's gone and no longer a "threat"?

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

Do you know how much of backbone, I have?

Well, enough as to end a year and a half long relationship with a man who so far has never given me any issues, simply because I caught him lying... once. ( As far as I know, granted!)

You sure about this? Sounds like you completely backtracked on having a backbone, after you caught him lying.

 

Not advocating that you break up with him, but there's a bit of a jump from having a backbone and saying you'd break up with him if you caught him lying once, to falling for his lies, hook line and sinker.

[NoMoreJerks]

he has been transparent giving me access to all things bearing his first and last name. There is simply no cheating.

I guess I must've missed something. :confused:

[NoMoreJerks]

Instead of shouting "Cheater, cheater" to a man who to this day has not shown any signs of infidelity

You mean, no signs of infidelity other than having drinks (and god knows what else) with a woman unbeknownst to you, then claiming she was a man... because that sounds very transparent and is not a sign of infidelity at all... And because someone who lies about the person they met being a woman, would NEVER lie about having done more than just having drinks with her.

 

"Oh btw honey, just so that you know, I cheated on you today," said no cheater ever.

[CrystalCastles]

Hey OP.

 

Just wanted to wish you good luck, as the other posters have pretty much nailed the situation on the head.

 

Your bf is acting shady. I wouldn't jump to conclusions that he is cheating, but I'd probably start gathering evidence.

[Mascara]

decided that the best way to go about it was to pretend this female friend was a guy, so I could confess...

 

OP, you need to understand something..... NOBODY DOES THIS.

 

I don't know how more clearly I can say this to you. Only liars and cheaters and people who have been caught doing something they should have told you about come up with the classic "oh ah er yes! You fell into my cunning trap!"

 

Apart from that..... NOBODY DOES THIS.

[Els]

OP, you need to understand something..... NOBODY DOES THIS.

 

I don't know how more clearly I can say this to you. Only liars and cheaters and people who have been caught doing something they should have told you about come up with the classic "oh ah er yes! You fell into my cunning trap!"

 

Apart from that..... NOBODY DOES THIS.

 

Sorry, OP, but I have to agree with this.

 

I'm not saying he's necessarily straight-out physically cheating (by definition, penis in other girl's vagina), but that doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong with this situation either.

 

This stunt that he pulled should really not be acceptable. I hope you see this.

[KatZee]

No wonder you guys are so sure of yourselves...

You are not reading my posts. I wouldn't really mind it if it wasn't for your forceful tone and misunderstanding crucial parts of my story.

 

And no one is taking responsability away or accepting anything from him. My desire is to find the truth. Not jump to conclusion, not justify, simply get what happened. And to know that I, we need to talk.

 

How are we not reading your posts? I've read every single one since post one.

 

You thought he was so honest and truthful and transparent, and then you had gut feelings he was lying. So you did some snooping and you DID infact find out he was lying right to your face.

 

Not only was he lying about seeing a female friend and telling you that SHE was a HE but for God knows how long, he was communicating with her via text message which he would then subsequently delete from his phone.

 

Again I say, If someone has NOTHING TO HIDE then to flat out lie, and then delete text messages is not something that would happen. Deleting communication shows that at some point in those conversations, or maybe throughout the entire thing, there were boundary crossing things being said, things he did not want you to see.

 

He found out you snooped, and decided to gaslight you by saying he knew you were snooping and he played a game to get you to "confess." He played a little twisty, sneaky game there turning it all on you.

 

Now he's got you feeling bad and guilty for snooping in the first place. Now everything makes sense. Now he's not such a bad guy anymore. Now his explanations of this girl and his lying make perfect sense. Now you apologize for ever having doubted him or snooping in the first place.

 

Don't you see how the game is played?

[lindsay1990]

Okay, I'll chime in as this hits more close to home than not with me.

 

In my experience... I also *knew* my ex boyfriend wouldn't cheat. Like someone said previously though, you think you know someone and they can surprise you every time. However, in my case, my ex appeared to have close female friends, which I thought nothing of when I met him, like you I accept without issue relatively close male-female relationships. In my case, in particular, I had extra reassurance as my ex's two closest woman friends were 1) already married and 2) he had never had a girlfriend and was even a virgin.

 

Fast forward to the beginning of the end:

- a few months in I find out that woman friend #1 wasn't his friend before she married but they only met through her husband, an acquainance of my ex whom he bonded with while overseas. The alarmin gpart? MY ex confided in me the nature of their so-called great friendship and after arguing he admitted it was a full blown emotional affair with this woman #1, where he would be her confidant, they had pet names for each other, etc. how did he admit to this? When I asked him if he had ever been in love (foolishly counting on him saying NO as he hadn0t hada girlfriend) and he admitted that to this friend #1.

 

To make matters worse, he had been visiting friend #1 and her husband over the weekend, and I was horrified at the fact that they were so "close" but he would still go their house and be all chummy with her husband and all surrogate-husband figure to this woman. Bear in mind that I say this because he became like her emotional soundboard as she was having problems with her husband.

 

- Friend #2... Ex boyfriend also told me that they were just best friends, met in undergrad then drifted apart then reconnected in grad school as she became involved with some other dude whom she married at the end of the year. Cool, right? Except that turns out they had major crushes on each other in undergrad but the whole thing never materialized because she turned out to be a total b*tch, which is why when I started going out with my, she was separated from her husband.

 

Now here, the thing is that my ex had been such a huge part of their courtship and the falling apart of their marriage, that he became the go-to between them as they were separated, he was literally mediating in their relationship but, BUT he also became this woman's, friend #2, surrogate male figure. Again, he became her confidante, she would call him at all hours to talk about her work, about her haircut these inside jokes, etc. Was this necesarrily a bad thing? Not obviously but ever since then, knowing this and coupled with the story on friend #1 I could not let it go. Oh, he had claimed that he was equally as close to the husband but -and here is where you need to trust your gut - I always felt he had this deep rooted admiration for the woman, and he obviously considered her his closest friend of the two of them

 

 

Why couldn't I let it go? Because he didn't on his own create distance with these women. Not 1. when he realized he was crossing the line, their line, even if he was single.... and 2. Not when he was with me. He stopped talking to friend #1 upon my request (arguing). With friend #2, he said he would bring the contact down (as well as with her husband) but this didn't work out and this woman calling him at 11:00 pm when we move din together and him refusing to tell her to call later was the nail in our coffin. I felt he always got a rush out of being the better man in these women's relationships.

 

I strongly belief this man would never cheat on his woman. He has too much of an ego to be an outright cheater. But I could not trust him. So far these were suspicions and red flags of his character, but my trust was irreparably damaged on the day that I found text message threads between him and woman friend #2 and her husband, and they were missing some texts. And I ask him "Sweetieeeee, why are there texts missings here?" and the guy gets all flustered and basically tells me he deleted them because he knew I would think they were talking "too much" and he knew I would get mad, and he didn't want me to worry because he "wasn't talking about anything personal or bad, it just more quantity that I would feel comfortable with".

 

Could this really have been the case? Yeah. Was it probably inexperience as I was his first gf as someone said? Very likely. Was the done? Sadly, absolutely.

 

Now, I know in your case is different because your guy lied about his sexual involvemente with these women, and mine lied about his emotional involvement. But from my experience I will have with NoMoreJerks on this one, on that this boy is more maniulative than not, on the grounds that:

 

- He dealt you in half-truths, and that is dangerous.

- He trickle-truthed you, telling you what he thought you needed to know and only letting more info out when he knew you yourself knew more

- Once left misinformation for me (edited text chains) and spun it around on me, saying he did it because he knew I would get mad.

- In time, there were a couple of more incidents where I would feel that he was intentionally or at least by omission misguiding me.

 

He was honest with everything else. He tried his best I think. He didn't kiss sleep or get with anybody else while with me. I like to think he doesn't actually feel so strongly about friend #2, or maybe he just doesn't know it himself and that is why he accidentally gaslighted me.

 

What I DO KNOW is that just because a guy is not a cheater doesn't mean he's transparent. Just because he doesn't sleep with someone doesn't mean he's honest and that he shares all the cards with you. As in my case, it may be more an emotional/ego bond with these woman, but you are the only one that knows what you are comfortable with. I was not comfortable with the closeness, given his PAST (yes, his past even if it was once and young to get attached to another married friend #1) and just my gut and my preferences.

 

What I'm saying is that sexual fidelity is not the only marker of honesty. That a guy wouldn't sleep with someone and lie to you about it, doesn't mean he is a guy that is incapable of manipulation. And at the end of the day, you have to decide if you can be with a man who let's say you know won't cheat on you (as I feel mine would not have) but who deals in half truths.

 

In my opinion, and obviously I am biased, this is one of the least desirable traits a man can have. I would rather have a guy and tell me "listen, I slept with this woman over the weekend and I'm leaving you" or "I'm in love with someone else and I'm leaving you and the kids, sorry." IT's just.... I feel the half-truths just rob you of a lot of dignity and I, for one, could never come back from that. These are difficult calls to make, I know. But at the end, it's not just a suspicion that he was with another one, but the confirmation that he can lie/omit/rephrase as much as he needs to keep control of the discourse.

 

And that is a matter of principles, so you have to see what this tells you about him. Not what it tells us or somebody else, but only you and if you can make your peace with this and also most definitely COUNT on it happening again whether you find out or not.

 

Myself? I don't somebody to "protect" me with the truth, and in life, as we can't count on people's feelings remaining (love withers after 30 years and husbands leave), we can't count on them wanting to be with us... I think the only thing we can really count on is on someone being honest, and you can't ask someone to do that, it has to be intimately entrenched in their character. No matter what the consequence to them, or us. It is really the only thing we can rely on.

[KatZee]

I have said this in SO many threads regarding cheating. The absolute WORST thing anyone can do if they suspect a partner of sneaking behind their back is to confront that person openly. Do the investigating yourself and DO NOT confront the person who may be doing the sneaking. That drives them further underground, gives them the heads up that you are on to them, and giving them extra time to invent and perfect stories that will make sense to you.

 

Of course now he's going to leave little traps around for you to see, "Oh sorry! I can't hang out with you anymore because I want to make sure I'm sleeping next to my girlfriend and a decent hour!" <-- honestly, what dude even SAYS this to anyone?? If this was something you saw via text, why is this something you're seeing now? Why are the conversations not being deleted NOW? (Because you're seeing what he wants you to see.)

[Mascara]

Honestly, just looking at your brief posting history... you say one thing (all strong and firm, and "he knows I won't put up with that") and then you go ahead and just roll over.

 

You're young and this is your first relationship. I understand that you want a fairy tale ending. But you're very very weak where this man is concerned, even though you post about how you don't put up with things.

 

I bet he can't quite believe you bought that line.

[Mascara]

So he meets up with a "lady friend" for a "drink", doesn't let you know, deletes the text mssg history so that you wouldn't find out... and that is transparent how exactly ?

 

How is it verifiable? Were you there? Did you have a recording of their conversations? Did you even have any evidence he hung out/got drunk with his friends?

 

Bullsh*t . You didn't want to see anything that would've confirmed your suspicions. No one snoops on her bf's phone because she's suspicious he's texting another woman, and then not look at all the texts.

 

Wait, what?? This makes no sense. The way I read this: he thought you found out about him hanging out with his female "friend", and gave himself away -- but only went so far as to admit that he had met up with someone, except it was a guy (he didn't want to risk giving himself completely away in case he was wrong and it turned out to be a coincidence that you suggested the same show). He lied about the person being a guy. On top of not telling you about hanging out with that woman and god-knows whatever else he was doing with/to her other than hanging out.

 

And what exactly did he get you to "confess"? Sounds like he THOUGHT you had snooped on his phone when you suggested seeing that show, then gave himself away, and now you think he did all that because he knew you had snooped and it was his way of getting you to confess. Huh?

 

He did not play a game -- the reason he did not directly ask if you had looked through his messages is that he thought you had , because you mentioned that show. He then thought denial was futile, and instead decided to deny that it was a woman he had been texting.

 

OK, so it's perfectly OK for him to be going out with random women unbeknownst to you... on nights out with his buddies... because it doesn't "affect" you??

 

You need to staple this to your boyfriends forehead. Preferably on your way out of the door.

[KatZee]

if the genders were reversed all you ladies would be defending her for the same behavior.

 

I'm sorry, but you've been here for...all of 27 posts?

 

I'm sure if you scan the threads you will find scenarios where women have been just as sneaky if not more so than this situation, and us female responders have NOT justified or defended her behavior. Quite the opposite actually.

 

Please keep the discussion on topic and related to the situation, not about trying to gender flip this.

[lindsay1990]

she just wants to find the truth and non jump to an incorrect conclusion. he may be a lying jerk or he may not be. she's looking into it. so many of you so called more experienced girls instantly jump to conclusions which are wrong half the time. you behave like you know the guy better than she does.

 

 

I agree with this. And to summarize my super long post (sorry!) I think we shouldn't confuse her between her guy being a cheater or being a liar.

 

I mean, he doesn't look to be cheating *now* so maybe she should just wait it out and see what happens and how he acts. However, as her initial posts seem to point to the fact that he lied (or lied enough already, and came clean was when he was caught) as what gets to her the most, I think she should focus on being with a guy who, isn't a cheater, but at least once manipulated the truth. Maybe it was a mistake only and he won't do it again, young guys sometimes panic

[Mascara]

Probably shouldn't feed the troll, but I'd like to point out that the reason for my first post here was a couple of friends and I are currently having a spookily similar conversation with a male friend of ours about his girlfriend (without going into too much detail, his gf went to a bar with another man "because she knew the boyfriend was following her so she decided to give him something to follow")

 

But back on topic....