Overacting at Boyfriend lying? I think not!

[NoMoreJerks]

Unlike you, I praise myself on being able to detach myself from whatever situation

There's a difference between: 1) taking a little bit of distance from an issue, so that your judgment won't be clouded by the momentary outrage, and 2) sticking your head in the sand. With all due respect, you are doing the latter, not the former. It 's all good to keep calm and think about the situation and what it entails. That's what we are advocating. That you not only keep calm but actually THINK clearly and without any bias, about this. Clearly, you are so afraid of losing him, that you have decided anything short of the idea that he would NEVER cheat (your words, not mine), is too painful to accept and therefore, not true. You seem obsessed with keeping this man no matter what, and are justifying his behavior after the fact, to fit into your agenda of wanting to keep him as your boyfriend no matter what. Have you seen how you've changed your words that you had posted at the beginning? You had claimed you had a backbone and wouldn't accept lies. Now you are trying to excuse and justify them for him. He might as well hire you as his own marketing director or something.

[NoMoreJerks]

Jealous ? No. He has never given me any reason to be jealous.

Accusatory? As far as our relationship is concerned, no. Again, I have never had any issues of this sort with him. Ever.

So there was no reason for him to believe that you'd take it personally if he had a "platonic" relationship with a person of the opposite sex, right?

[2sunny]

And that's the point. He has accepted that he deceived me, that this situation would have never happened if he had simply asked if I had gone through his phone.

 

He's accepted it? What the hell?

 

OP - I'm coming into the thread late - in your initial posts to this thread you seemed solid, grounded and healthy!

 

Now - it looks eager to believe his form of lying - and he seems to have turned and twisted it into being YOUR behavior that's suspect.

 

THAT'S not healthy interaction!

 

He lied. He changed her contact from female to male. He covered up a meeting with her! And he ACCEPTS it? That's backwards! How about HE'S sorry for the way HE participated? How about he ADMITS he intended to be sneaky by LYING to you? How about his actions show he harmed YOUR trust in him?

 

It looks backwards because you've lost track of your healthy boundary by accepting his bad behavior. He's had no consequences and is likely to just do it again - ruining the trust even further.

[ExpatInItaly]

Jealous ? No. He has never given me any reason to be jealous.

Accusatory? As far as our relationship is concerned, no. Again, I have never had any issues of this sort with him. Ever.

 

Then I have to say that I really believe he's hiding something. There's practically no logical reason why he'd delete those texts otherwise. If you'd falsely accused him or been jealous of this girl before, then perhaps I could understand why those messages between them were deleted. But if that's never been a problem, then there's a reason he doesn't want you to see them.

 

I don't for one second buy that he knew you'd read them. I'm surprised you believe that he tried to "trap" you by telling you it was a guy. That does not make sense, OP. Do as others suggest and keep your eyes and ears open. He's deceptive.

[ExpatInItaly]

So there was no reason for him to believe that you'd take it personally if he had a "platonic" relationship with a person of the opposite sex, right?

 

That is exactly the reason I asked. It doesn't add up at all.

[2sunny]

Jealous ? No. He has never given me any reason to be jealous.

Accusatory? As far as our relationship is concerned, no. Again, I have never had any issues of this sort with him. Ever.

 

But now you have. And what you do about it determines what the future brings.

 

You may believe it's never happened - but it may have in the past and you just haven't known about it.

[Auguria]

That's not what I'm talking about! has he admitted that, he didn't know you'd gone through his phone, he just made that up when you confronted him?

 

That is the lie OP. Are you deliberately misunderstanding?

 

I'll try again.

 

HE LIED ABOUT KNOWING YOU HAD BEEN THROUGH HIS PHONE. HE LIED ABOUT SETTING YOU UP. HE DID NOT SET YOU UP. THAT WAS A LIE. TO SAVE FACE WHEN YOU CONFRONTED HIM.

 

Not shouting, caps for emphasis.

 

Ah, but see. You are assuming he made up his desire for me to confess when I confronted him. What if, for instance, he didn't make it up?

 

What if, he thought that since I knew that he was going to meet up with this female friend and that there was no hidden agenda since it was a mere friendly farewell in his mind, he would play dumb so I would be forced to tell him that I had looked at his phone ? ... This is at least what he claims.

 

I pointed out to him that from the outside, it does look like he has an agenda.

 

But you know me, he said. You KNOW me. I have never hidden anything from you. If I had anything to hide, would I have deliberately lied about meeting a guy friend knowing that you KNOW I was meeting a female friend. Would I have given myself so easily if I had an agenda with this girl? ... I would have played dumb, and told you " Yeah, I'm meeting a female friend" reassuring you and then betray your trust. My only agenda was to have you admit you looked through my phone. It was a bad idea, a terribly wrong one, and I didn't fully think that although it is clear in my head that I am faithful to you, I shouldn't have assumed you weren't going to question it.

 

Verbatim what he wrote in his email a few days ago.

[KatZee]

That's not what I'm talking about! has he admitted that, he didn't know you'd gone through his phone, he just made that up when you confronted him?

 

That is the lie OP. Are you deliberately misunderstanding?

 

I'll try again.

 

HE LIED ABOUT KNOWING YOU HAD BEEN THROUGH HIS PHONE. HE LIED ABOUT SETTING YOU UP. HE DID NOT SET YOU UP. THAT WAS A LIE. TO SAVE FACE WHEN YOU CONFRONTED HIM.

 

Not shouting, caps for emphasis.

 

^^^ this.

 

The first time you came and told us this, you stated that he said he knew you went through his phone because you brought up some show.

 

(By the way, you also said this was a popular show that many know about. So I'm not sure how he would deduce by you bringing up the show, that you went through his phone.)

 

Then in another post you stated that he backtracked and then said he wasn't sure you really went through his phone at all.

 

This is where the lies, covering up, and manipulation comes in. It's a moot point to continue talking about him cheating, not cheating, or whatever. But know this. People who lie, who then cover up lies with more lies, and who twist situations around to turn them around on the other person are NOT fundamentally honest, or transparent people.

 

And I'm STILL going to harp on the fact that he deleted portions of his conversation with this girl. I do not buy, for ONE second, the fact that he deleted them because he felt "threatened" or that it was some knee jerk reaction. People cover up things, hide things, and delete things INTENTIONALLY.

 

I'm going to go further and say that if it was such a quick decision to delete stuff, why not just delete the entire conversation? Why take the time to go THROUGH the conversation and delete specific portions of it? That shows intent, and thought.

[Mascara]

Ah, but see. You are assuming he made up his desire for me to confess when I confronted him. What if, for instance, he didn't make it up? .

 

Sigh. Because, OP - NOBODY DOES THAT.

 

It is 100% a lie. I can't believe you fell for it, and I bet he can't either.

 

Take it from someone older and MUCH wiser than you.

[NoMoreJerks]

But you know me, he said. You KNOW me. I have never hidden anything from you.

You clearly didn't. Up until you checked his phone (or even now, actually -- because you want to wallow in denial). He had hidden the fact that he was texting this woman, that he was meeting up with her, and then, that she was in fact a woman. And you fell for this line, hook line and sinker? And that's healthy in your opinion?

[KatZee]

What if, he thought that since I knew that he was going to meet up with this female friend...he would play dumb so I would be forced to tell him that I had looked at his phone ? ... This is at least what he claims.

 

See I could be completely making this up but I could swear there was a post by you on here where at first he said he knew you looked through his phone, and then another post where he said he actually wasn't sure.

[NoMoreJerks]

This was my initial reaction to this guy's manipulations:

 

The way I read this: he thought you found out about him hanging out with his female "friend", and gave himself away -- but only went so far as to admit that he had met up with someone, except it was a guy (he didn't want to risk giving himself completely away in case he was wrong and it turned out to be a coincidence that you suggested the same show). He lied about the person being a guy. On top of not telling you about hanging out with that woman and god-knows whatever else he was doing with/to her other than hanging out.

 

And what exactly did he get you to "confess"? Sounds like he THOUGHT you had snooped on his phone when you suggested seeing that show, then gave himself away, and now you think he did all that because he knew you had snooped and it was his way of getting you to confess. Huh?

[Auguria]

You clearly didn't. Up until you checked his phone (or even now, actually -- because you want to wallow in denial). He had hidden the fact that he was texting this woman, that he was meeting up with her, and then, that she was in fact a woman. And you fell for this line, hook line and sinker? And that's healthy in your opinion?

 

WRONG! Again proving that you DO NOT READ MY POSTS!

 

-I have never required him to give me a list of friends he texts. And he has never asked me to provide him with a list of friends I text. We can text whoever we want in our relationship as long as we have appropriate boundaries. The text conversation that I found was APPROPRIATE. The things that I would text my guy friends.

 

- When I saw the text conversation, they had not made plans yet. As such he didn't know when or if he was going to meet with her at all since she was to leave very soon and was spending some days with her family. As such he was not able to tell me he was meeting with her till Thursday when they made the plans. He called me Thursday night to let me know his plans for Friday.

 

- He has talked to me about her. Again: I was out of town for a weekend and he told me that his best friend's ex had invited him for this rally and that he was thinking about going. He ultimately didn't.

[KatZee]

You clearly didn't. Up until you checked his phone (or even now, actually -- because you want to wallow in denial). He had hidden the fact that he was texting this woman, that he was meeting up with her, and then, that she was in fact a woman. And you fell for this line, hook line and sinker? And that's healthy in your opinion?

 

Have to agree here OP, sorry.

 

Lets say for hypothetical reasons that you DIDN'T go through his phone. Lets pretend for a second that you're still living in the land of, "he's so wonderful and honest and transparent!"

 

Do you think he would have told you he was meeting up with this female friend? Do you think he would have continued to referring to HER as HE?

 

At the end of the day, this guy TRIED to pull one over on you. He attempted to lie. He attempted to go do something without you finding out about it... but you DID.

 

Now he has to pull out all the stops, talk a big game, and talk about how this whole thing was some "game" to get you to confess.

 

Pretend you DIDN'T confront him. He would have done all this behind your back. This honest, and transparent guy would have done all of this without you being NONE the wiser.

[ExpatInItaly]

Ah, but see. You are assuming he made up his desire for me to confess when I confronted him. What if, for instance, he didn't make it up?

 

What if, he thought that since I knew that he was going to meet up with this female friend and that there was no hidden agenda since it was a mere friendly farewell in his mind, he would play dumb so I would be forced to tell him that I had looked at his phone ? ... This is at least what he claims.

 

I pointed out to him that from the outside, it does look like he has an agenda.

 

But you know me, he said. You KNOW me. I have never hidden anything from you. If I had anything to hide, would I have deliberately lied about meeting a guy friend knowing that you KNOW I was meeting a female friend. Would I have given myself so easily if I had an agenda with this girl? ... I would have played dumb, and told you " Yeah, I'm meeting a female friend" reassuring you and then betray your trust. My only agenda was to have you admit you looked through my phone. It was a bad idea, a terribly wrong one, and I didn't fully think that although it is clear in my head that I am faithful to you, I shouldn't have assumed you weren't going to question it.

 

Verbatim what he wrote in his email a few days ago.

 

The short answer? Yes, he would've deliberately lied. Why? Because he's got something to hide and he's trying to divert the attention from himself. His agenda was creating a flimsy cover-up to avoid a full discovery. You and the posters here saw right through it. It's not so difficult to see, really.

[Auguria]

Thanks Guys for your help!

I think I've gotten enough help like this. Truly thank you!

 

I'd like to be able to focus on myself now. I will take time off from this relationship and concentrate on myself. Time, I've heard, is the best medicine to discover the truth. I'm just not willing to continue this debate here anymore.

[NoMoreJerks]

When I saw the text conversation, they had not made plans yet. As such he didn't know when or if he was going to meet with her at all since she was to leave very soon and was spending some days with her family. As such he was not able to tell me he was meeting with her till Thursday when they made the plans. He called me Thursday night to let me know his plans for Friday.

So now you are claiming you knew that he was going out for drinks with a female friend of his? This wasn't at all what you claimed. You're lying, to cover his lies and convince yourself that he wasn't lying. You're lying to yourself. If he had told you he was going out with his female friend for a drink, why would he then lie to you about her being a man? And how would that make sense as a strategy for him to get you to confess that you had snooped on his phone?

[2sunny]

He's a liar.

 

He's just trying to twist everything so you believe his lies.

 

 

He's good, very good - as he doesn't APPEAR to look as guilty as he is. And he has you convinced that his lies and cover up are ok.

 

The fact that he's that slick is suspect too.

 

 

You may not have believed he could do this before - but he's done it now! That alone changes everything!

 

 

And a half hour drink? Really? I guess he risked your R all for one drink and a half hour? I don't buy it! Or maybe your R doesn't mean enough to participate in the risk?

 

Either way - he did risk it. He never offered his truth. He obviously met a gal and lead you to believe otherwise. All with deception to you.

 

The bottom line for me would be - that's NOT what loving behavior looks like.

[2sunny]

If there was nothing to hide - he wouldn't have been hiding anything.

[2sunny]

Let's talk about TRUST in a relationship!

Now, we will pretty much all agree that trust is one of the most important factors in a relationship.

 

-However, do you guys think that non-disclosure of information about your past is ground for suspicion?

 

Okay, so let's take an hypothetical scenario. :

 

-You have a bf/gf that you met through a friend. He/She seems to be terribly into you, calls you "the one", shows deep respect, care, affection for your well-being. All in all, he/she says he/she is in love with you and a relationship blossoms.After a couple of months, the talk about past flames emerges. You are deeply honest, sincere and transparent about your past, affirm your morals, views on sex and relationships. Your bf/gf seems, on the other hand, not entirely on board about talking of his/her past; " it will bring nothing good", you hear him/her say. You learn that he/she did not have important and deep relationships throughout college, dated/hung out and had sex with a few girls/men ( a "less than average number") but that these "relationships" lasted only for a few weeks at a time, and as such they are part of the past. He/She is still friendly with them. You affirm that you are not a jealous person, and you only ask these questions in order to see if your views are compatible. Your trust in your partner is infallible.

 

- Throughout the months you meet some of his/her friends, not necessarily through him, you respect them and even spark conversations and sympathize with them (male and female). You are given the impression that the friends of the opposite gender are simply platonic friends, as your bf/gf tells you stories of these opposite gender friends calling him/her and complaining about their doomed relationships, your bf/gf provides and receives emotional support from them. Again, your trust in your partner is infallible.

 

- You learn a few months later that at least two of these opposite gender friends are past hookups of your bf/gf. The omission of such information signifies that these women/men are not part of the past as initially thought, but very much part of the present. You don't understand why the real dynamics of their past dating/friendly history have been willingly hidden from you and for what reason. You have been sincere, honest, transparent and you learn that you have not received the same treatment. Your bf/gf explains that " it is part of the past, didn't work out between us, we are just friends". Yet, it feels like a complete betrayal as you interacted with these women/men believing that there was no past/present sexual and emotional tension with your bf/gf and now, the reality, is that there was (maybe still is) and that it was hidden from you. Although you are still certain of the love that your bf/gf harbors for you, the non-disclosure of such information hinders the trust.

 

- What do you guys think about this notion that when it comes to past relationships and to the extent that these past flames are still part of your present, your partner needs to be aware of the dynamics?

- To some extent, the answers to the previous question might be in line with how one's feels about female/male friendships, especially after one has had a sexual relationship with said friend. So, how do you feel about this?

- Is lack of trust in the grounds of non-disclosure always about insecurities?

 

I'll tend to give my impressions as the discussion progresses.

 

Cheers,

 

Omitting his truth looks like its part of his pattern.

 

He isn't earning trust - he's destroying it.

[ExpatInItaly]

Thanks Guys for your help!

I think I've gotten enough help like this. Truly thank you!

 

I'd like to be able to focus on myself now. I will take time off from this relationship and concentrate on myself. Time, I've heard, is the best medicine to discover the truth. I'm just not willing to continue this debate here anymore.

 

Very true; give yourself some breathing space and get some perspective and some clarity. Best wishes to you.

[Auguria]

So now you are claiming you knew that he was going out for drinks with a female friend of his? This wasn't at all what you claimed. You're lying, to cover his lies and convince yourself that he wasn't lying. You're lying to yourself. If he had told you he was going out with his female friend for a drink, why would he then lie to you about her being a man? And how would that make sense as a strategy for him to get you to confess that you had snooped on his phone?

 

- Well, yes. I read the text conversation.

It went something like this:

Bf: Hey, C. Hope you are doing well. When are you leaving for China?

C: Hi H. Leaving on the 1st , so very soon. Can't wait.

Bf: Great! Let's meet up before you leave then. Tell M to join us if he has time. Maybe this weekend?

C: Yeah, sure I'll let him know. Haven't seen him a a while. Can't this weekend, spending time with family. Maybe sometime next week?

Bf: Sounds good.

( That's when I stopped reading. The conversation had continued, however... That girl proposing to check out that gallery... )

 

So, yes, I knew they were going to meet. It didn't seem they had clear plans as to when or where yet. He showed me the rest of their text conversation when I confronted him. He had texted her the next few days telling her that they should grab a drink instead...

So, since I texted him about that art gallery after reading his conversation that he had with this girl, unbenknownst to me, he thought I had looked through his messages.

[KatZee]

Why does "M" get to join them and not you?

 

Why is he keeping you and his friendship with her completely separate?

[ExpatInItaly]

- Well, yes. I read the text conversation.

It went something like this:

Bf: Hey, C. Hope you are doing well. When are you leaving for China?

C: Hi H. Leaving on the 1st , so very soon. Can't wait.

Bf: Great! Let's meet up before you leave then. Tell M to join us if he has time. Maybe this weekend?

C: Yeah, sure I'll let him know. Haven't seen him a a while. Can't this weekend, spending time with family. Maybe sometime next week?

Bf: Sounds good.

( That's when I stopped reading. The conversation had continued, however... That girl proposing to check out that gallery... )

 

So, yes, I knew they were going to meet. It didn't seem they had clear plans as to when or where yet. He showed me the rest of their text conversation when I confronted him. He had texted her the next few days telling her that they should grab a drink instead...

So, since I texted him about that art gallery after reading his conversation that he had with this girl, unbenknownst to me, he thought I had looked through his messages.

 

Apologies, OP, I know you wanted to end the debate. But reading this convo, one thing jumps out at me (and perhaps you've already addressed this, sorry if I missed it) Had your boyfriend already mentioned a possible meet-up with this girl, and had he invited you along?

[2sunny]

You have had LDR until recently, right?

 

Did you move to him or did he make that sacrifice/change?

 

And he's had her as a hookup? And you don't think this was one last time before she moved?

 

And why did he need to with hold the truth IF he had nothing to hide?

 

I don't find him believable.

 

You knew they were meeting - but not because he offered that truth. Stop making his lies ok.