No Spark? or Not Used to Drama-Free Dating?

[TB Rhine]

She's found a normal guy and is trying to turn him into her abusive ex. When he *was* easy to figure out, it was all about how he was boring and there was no spark. Now she can't stop talking about him because he sent her a good morning email and didn't include a smiley face ("What does it MEAN???") He wasn't giving her enough drama, so she's decided to create some.

 

I guess it's better than kicking him to the curb and then hooking up with the nearest drug addict...

[NoMoreJerks]

a normal guy

None of his behavior indicates that he is a normal guy. If you still think of him as a normal guy who has not shown any red flags or disrespect (need I say more? He apologized for Saturday -- that's an admission on his part that he blew me off, which is not something that a normal, decent guy would do, or withhold an apology for so long), then you really must look in the mirror and wonder why you find this behavior "normal" and how much that has contributed to your own dating/relationship woes.

 

I love how people's views change by the minute, about this guy. If I say he's a nice guy, I'm told I wasn't interested in him because he was a nice guy, so it's my fault. If I say I have started liking him / getting interested in him, you start saying stuff about how there might be some red flags. If I analyze his behavior, all of a sudden he's a nice guy and I am a batsh*t crazy person who keeps analyzing because she wants to create drama. Huh! Make up your minds already. Is he or is he not a nice guy?

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[SilentVoice]

She's found a normal guy and is trying to turn him into her abusive ex. When he *was* easy to figure out, it was all about how he was boring and there was no spark. Now she can't stop talking about him because he sent her a good morning email and didn't include a smiley face ("What does it MEAN???") He wasn't giving her enough drama, so she's decided to create some.

 

I guess it's better than kicking him to the curb and then hooking up with the nearest drug addict...

 

Exactly....

[NoMoreJerks]

Sounds to me like a lot of posters here are at this point changing their views of this guy by the post, just so that they can prove their point and keep one thing constant: that I am at fault. So everything else can change but one thing must remain constant: that I am creating drama, that all the disrespect and disinterest is in my head, etc. It's ultimately fascinating to observe, but really pathetic.

[TB Rhine]

If you don't want a guy who won't pay for you, dump the guy. If you don't want a guy who occasionally wants to hang out with his friends rather than you, dump the guy. If you don't want a guy who - I don't know - occasionally has to check his email or something... dump the guy.

 

None of the examples of this guy's behavior you're giving us sound like "red flags," which I think is what everyone is responding to. Believe it or not, not every guy believes he should have to pay for the privilege of a woman's company by picking up the check all the time - it's sexist Western culture that makes you feel entitled to this, not the fact that it's an inalienable right.

 

(On a side note, it's telling, I think, that you don't stop to consider this guy's situation - maybe he IS hard up for money. Maybe he's barely scraping by. Maybe he skipped breakfast and lunch so he could buy you that dinner. But of course all that is meaningless to you, because you don't view it as a gesture of kindness or something you should be grateful for, but as something you're entitled to. His possibly unfortunate station in life is only a consideration insofar as it prevents him from spoiling you in the manner which you feel you deserve).

 

Also believe it or not, sometimes a guy would rather hang out with his friends than a chick who's acting weird and ambivalent towards him. And sometimes a guy would rather check his emails at eight o'clock at night rather than 10 or 11 (after he gets back from his date), because there may be something time-sensitive in there. But that doesn't matter to you either, of course, because on top of feeling entitled to this guy's time and money, you ALSO seem to feel entitled to have him give you top priority in absolutely, positively EVERYTHING he does. Why is he taking his insulin shot? Why doesn't he do it later? Isn't it more important that he talk to ME ME ME???

 

The world doesn't revolve around you, dear heart. And if a guy not behaving as though it does constitutes disrespect or ambivalence or manipulation in your book, you're in for a loooong ride in this crap-smelling subway car we call love.

[veggirl]

This guy, that guy, whoever & whatever....your best bet is to quit hopping into bed so quickly. You lost your virginity what, a year ago? And how many men have you f*cked since then? Slow your roll, this is f*cking you up and you are NOT thinking clearly in any situation.

[NoMoreJerks]

(On a side note, it's telling, I think, that you don't stop to consider this guy's situation - maybe he IS hard up for money. Maybe he's barely scraping by. Maybe he skipped breakfast and lunch so he could buy you that dinner. But of course all that is meaningless to you, because you don't view it as a gesture of kindness or something you should be grateful for, but as something you're entitled to. His possibly unfortunate station in life is only a consideration insofar as it prevents him from spoiling you in the manner which you feel you deserve).

Oh PLEASE. Are you F*cking kidding me right now? I am the LAST person you would/could say this to/about. Really, just back off. I am NOT like that, and I do NOT expect the guy to pay all the time, or most of the time. And it makes me comfortable if he does. But every once in a while is nice. And I do reciprocate. This guy would not have paid for our dinner if the waiter had not shoved the bill into his hands. I even gave this guy the benefit of the doubt and SAID myself that he might be short for money. But if he is, he shouldn't be dating, even if he won't be expected to pay for the woman as well , he still would have to pay his own bill.. so unless he finds someone who is willing to not do any dining-out or anything more than coffee dates, he shouldn't be dating and probably won't find anyone willing to date him. I am not high maintenance AT ALL. I even didn't find a whole lot wrong with us splitting the bill, but if someone is not making more effort than to ask for a coffee date, then that's not exactly normal. Maybe his dating category should be broke people or homeless women. Because anyone who makes more money than that, will expect to do some activities that will cost a little bit more money than a mezzo coffee from Starbucks. I always reciprocate or treat people to meals. In fact, if anything, I have noticed that a lot of men these days are the golddiggers. I spent more money on my ex, far more money than he ever spent on me.I bought most of our meals, for the both of us. More often than not, he didn't pick up the tab, didn't even request to split it. Sometimes even coming up with excuses like, I don't have my credit card on me, or, I couldn't grab cash because the machine won't accept my credit card. Moochers! I've seen a lot of guys like that, more so than women. The claim that women are golddiggers is a myth. If anything, the opposite is truer these days for a lot of men. Especially in this day and age where women make just as much money as men.

[NoMoreJerks]

This guy, that guy, whoever & whatever....your best bet is to quit hopping into bed so quickly. You lost your virginity what, a year ago? And how many men have you f*cked since then? Slow your roll, this is f*cking you up and you are NOT thinking clearly in any situation.

Since my ex, I've done 3 one night stands, and sex twice with this current guy. The one night stands were honestly very much needed: i needed to get some of that ex toxicity out of my system and that helped vent that frustration.

[TB Rhine]

I can't wait for the new wave of posts tomorrow morning, when she realizes he went to work on time rather than stopping by to take her out to breakfast.

[NoMoreJerks]

Also believe it or not, sometimes a guy would rather hang out with his friends than a chick who's acting weird and ambivalent towards him. And sometimes a guy would rather check his emails at eight o'clock at night rather than 10 or 11 (after he gets back from his date), because there may be something time-sensitive in there. But that doesn't matter to you either, of course, because on top of feeling entitled to this guy's time and money, you ALSO seem to feel entitled to have him give you top priority in absolutely, positively EVERYTHING he does.

 

A guy checking his emails / phone / texts in front of me, is not my idea of a gentleman / respectful person. I, too, MIGHT get urgent emails or texts. I still turn off my data plan and put my phone on vibrate and if I do happen to get a call, I will take it if it's something super urgent, but most likely not. I will just call back. No one is that busy and in demand unless they are the president of the U.S. And if he is, then maybe he shouldn't be dating. If he can't lay off his phone for like, 2 hrs , then he should be staying at home and watching his phone and waiting for it to ring/beep/whatever. *shrug* That's no way to live one's life. I've learned this the hard way - I used to do this sort of thing (pull out my phone , look at texts, etc.) with / around my friends when we were out socializing, and they used to make remarks about me doing that, they didn't like it and felt disrespected. I don't blame them. I don't do that anymore with anyone, be they friends, strangers, or dates. If I'm expecting urgent emails, I stay at home and wait for it. I don't set up a date. But that's just "abnormal" 'messed up" me.

[NoMoreJerks]

I can't wait for the new wave of posts tomorrow morning, when she realizes he went to work on time rather than stopping by to take her out to breakfast.

Wow, you are a mean person, truly. And a misogynist. Accusing me of being a golddigger, because I expected a man to at least man up and himself say that we will split the bill instead of putting that responsibility on me? Funny how people spill their true colors after a little while. You just made it onto my ignore list. Congratulations. That takes a whole lot of doing. With that attitude, good luck with ANY woman other than homeless druggies.

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[jcrew11]

and now youre going nutty on tbrhine. he was hard on you, but youre drawing nutty conclusions. he didn't call you a gold digger and he isn't being a misogyninst. he had some good point but you don't want to hear other views. high drama. i'll just pass.

 

I just choose to avoid NMJ threads. Frankly, the quick-temper emotional outbursts are erratic, confusing, and flip-flopping are just too much for any person to read through. She clearly needs a strong, decisive, alpha male to contain her. Otherwise, her erratic self-doubt exponentially increases.

 

In some people's eyes, the OP's dramatic behavior is just out of control. But I think it is primarily her conservative cultural views on dating, where she just expects a man to be a strong decisive alpha male who knows how to seduce women.

 

Her behavior is a socially naive woman who does not know how to interact with men. She clearly needs to relax and let things develop or not develop on their own, without jumping to emotional conclusions at ever nuance or misstep.

[NoMoreJerks]

It's great to see that you are now feeding a troll, jcrew. A sign of the times, I guess. Must be so desperate to prove a point, you'll even jump on a troll bandwagon.

 

So Canadian culture is conservative?

[NoMoreJerks]

i'm a troll because i happen to agree with some of the guys here? really? how about listen to them? guys want to have a good time and we don't want to put up with the high drama. tone your drama down and you'll see better results.

There was zero drama. This guy flaked, and is cheap. Guys want to have a good time -- yes, some or many want sex with minimal effort on their part, and at the same time, to get away with disrespect. Can't have your cake and eat it too, and if that makes me a drama queen, then so be it.

 

The fact that you made a new account and launched right into dissing women on this thread, is what makes you a troll. But I am not going to feed your trolldom, even if jcrew did. Good luck getting ANY woman with your jadedness.

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

Sounds like you are bored for a Tuesday evening and want a little bit of drama. And something tells me that if you had a gf, you would not have been here trolling on a Tuesday night. Or maybe you're that pathetic. And who mentioned a smiley face anyway?

[NoMoreJerks]

you're right. i don't currently have a girlfriend. haven't had one for a few months. i don't have to have a girlfriend to live my life. i've had my share of relationships and will have another when the right girl comes along. hate to break it to you but your supposition is way off. weren't you arguing with tbrhine about the smiley face? but hey, i'm man enough to apologize if i'm wrong about the smiley face. not going to look thru 200 posts.

 

 

 

you've gone after at least three guys here, for what? were telling you our point of view. but because it may be different than yours you are going bananas at us.

You are hallucinating. You jumped on the bandwagon and started bashing me without even reading my posts, even going so far as accusing me of making a big deal out of a smiley, when in fact no such thing has happened except in your more-than-willing-to-fabricate-stuff-in-order-to-disturb-some-sh*t-on-a-boring-tuesday-night imagination. Anyway, sounds like you are after some drama, but I am not going to engage you. Good luck. See you, or NOT.

[SOLACEMENT]

How old are you guys?

This guy your dating can't be over 25

[NoMoreJerks]

How old are you guys?

This guy your dating can't be over 25

He's 29 and I'm 30.

[Els]

I analyze everything. I am a thinker / analyzer. This is my job, I do it every day for a living. That's why it's so ingrained in me. I like analyzing, and I can't say it's a very bad trait. The last time I didn't analyze, I ended up getting sucked into a black hole and getting abused and cheated on. I like to be in control, and being in control (of my own decisions) makes me need to analyze someone's behavior/interest level, etc. We all do that ALL the time. Geez, 99% of the posts on here are about that, and most people here post that stuff, including long-time posters. There's nothing wrong in analyzing one's own behavior and others' behavior. That's how you can notice red flags, etc. On second thoughts, something that you might have attributed to some factor or excused, might look like a red flag after all.

 

Don't you think a balance might be healthier than going from one extreme to the other? You literally went from tolerating constant trips to Hatyai by your ex, to picking apart the tiniest issues with this guy (like not picking up coffee).

 

I mean, look at it this way. If you scrutinize your body closely enough, you'll find one symptom or another of some potentially dangerous medical disorder. That little speckling on your cheek could be a melanoma. That sensation of scratchiness at the back of your throat could be MRSA. That cough could be tuberculosis.

 

That's what hypochondriacs do. And that's what you seem to be doing with regards to relationships.

 

Now, I'm not saying 'ignore glaring red flags', or 'ignore that 2-inch lump on your breast'. But that doesn't mean you have to go over everything with a microscope TRYING to find something wrong every second of the day.

 

Where does the balance lie? I don't know. What I do know, is that a 16-page thread about a guy you've only known for a few weeks is NOT it. If he truly has this many red flags early on, then lose him. End of story.

[NoMoreJerks]

Elswyth, who said this thread is necessarily only about this guy? It's about lessons learned from these sort of scenarios and incidents/situations, introspection as to what I did right/wrong, etc. Just because a thread (that was not about this guy in particular, but about such things as the spark, etc.) is 16 pages long doesn't mean that it's unhealthy.

[clia]

I don't think you should waste any more time with this guy.

 

He is not acting like he is dating you, despite him saying that he liked you and wanted to date you. A guy who is dating you will offer to buy you a $3 cup of coffee, for Gods sakes. (Hell, a guy or girl who is merely friends with you will usually offer to buy you a cup of coffee!) I don't think it's a financial thing at all. If he was really the more traditional type of guy who liked to pay for women for the first few dates, he would feel horrified by this. I can't imagine he wouldn't at least say to you "Listen, this is not how I normally do things, but unfortunately my finances are a little tight right now, but I really do like you so I don't want to lose this opportunity." Or something like that. He has certainly had the opportunity with all of your conversations to casually mention it if he is completely flat broke. I think he's just cheap and not all that interested.

 

Honestly, this whole thing is so bizarre. You have coffee with him from 6:30 - 8:30 p.m., during prime dinner time? Why would he not just suggest getting food if you two were meeting at that time? I have never, once in all of my years of dating had a guy suggest meeting up at dinner time without the idea that we would be getting food at some point. Weren't you starving to death by the time you left? I'll tell you what I would have done after he didn't even offer to buy me a cup of coffee. I would've drank my coffee and chatted with him, then after 1/2 an hour, I would have stood up and said I was starving so I was going to go have dinner. If he tried to invite himself along, I would have said "Oh, I'm sorry -- you just mentioned coffee, so I made other dinner plans." And then I would have left. I'm actually really surprised you spent two hours with him at dinner time at a coffee shop.

 

This guy is not your ex -- no way, no how -- but he is definitely not showing strong signs of interest in developing a relationship with you. I mean, date four at a coffee shop and he doesn't even buy you coffee? Weirdness. I'm kind of fascinated by this guy, though. I can't imagine what he must be thinking, other than that he is going to try to get sex the cheapest, laziest way possible. I don't think you should continue to communicate with him. Definitely don't take him to dinner on Sunday. Was that mentioned at all?

[NoMoreJerks]

Hey Clia,

 

I always buy coffee for my friends and also treat them to drinks and once in a while to dinner as well. And I do not make that much money. I am probably pretty "poor" if you compare my salary to most working people. I am still pretty much on a graduate student income. Which is not a whole lot. But it's not a whole big deal if I treat people to drinks or coffee or whatever, every once in a while. It's just the way I do things, and many of my friends do the same for me (though some don't). I have in recent months been cultivating my friendships more with people who are like that, than with the ones who aren't.A few bucks or a dozen bucks is nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's not like I'm going around and throwing away my money and blowing it on random strangers.It's just a nice, friendly gesture. And I don't expect anything in return for it (some people think that I am, if I make that gesture). That's ridiculous. Honestly, I think I gave this guy the benefit of the doubt, if anything, too much benefit of the doubt. Anyone would've walked by now. And yet, I am STILL accused of judging the guy too harshly and creating drama over it. I wasn't sure I was reading his signals/interest level right at the beginning, and I didn't want to write him off , because I tend to write off good guys and go for the bad guys. Now , sure, he 's not my 'ex', but he is not someone who is interested in me, and yet he wants to keep a hold on me for whatever reason , without making any effort (which reminds me A LITTLE of my 'ex' because my ex did that as well, though on a much different scale). Sure, it's up to me to say no, but what does it say about him if he is acting like that? Ah well. I'll chalk this up to experience and move on. The dinner thing didn't come up. I am just going to text him on Friday or Saturday, and say that I am not ready to date. I don't want to even make this guy feel bad and rejected (in case he will feel that way anyway) so I don't want to be blunt and tell him that it's because we're not compatible or because of something that he did. That's just not the way I do things. *shrug*

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

I'm kind of fascinated by this guy, though. I can't imagine what he must be thinking, other than that he is going to try to get sex the cheapest, laziest way possible. I don't think you should continue to communicate with him. Definitely don't take him to dinner on Sunday. Was that mentioned at all?

Yeah. Fascinating is an understatement. So many confusing signals. He has paid attention to every little detail I've mentioned, so he's very attentive (right down to remembering that my sister is doing a law degree ). He wants to keep on seeing me. But he doesn't want to spend any money on me, or on activities together that cost him more than his cup of coffee. But he keeps on talking to me, has not been back on the dating site since we first met, and is fine (for now) with spending time with me without having sex (and I gave him no timeline as to when I am ready, so it could be months). Unless he's assuming that I will give in shortly. I really don't know. I think he just wants the sex in the cheapest laziest way possible, but he also thinks I make a lot of money because I appear to be smart, well-dressed, and financially independent (he has seen my apartment and he was impressed at how nice and neat it was). Maybe he's attracted to my status (I guess some people who don't have a college education might think too highly of someone finishing up their PhD), but is wondering why someone like me wants to date someone like him. He's never said a single disrespectful word about women, so I don't think he's a jaded person who thinks women are golddiggers. That would've come out sooner rather than later. I was looking out for that red flag. It came up pretty fast with my 'ex'. I have no clue what he's thinking at this point.

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

BTW, lol, I just read some blog post by someone, about a guy who kept asking a girl out for coffee at 1-month intervals lol. The girl apparently thought (for good reason) that they weren't dating, just going out as friends. But apparently he thought they were dating because he asked her out for coffee once a month (he never bought her a coffee, she paid her own way). This guy I went out with must be doing/thinking the same? Either that, or he's a caffeine addict.

[NoMoreJerks]

Also: I am going out on a dinner date next week with someone (someone else) I met on OLD. Finally: a date that actually resembles a date. I am sick of drinking coffee and macchiato.

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks