No Spark? or Not Used to Drama-Free Dating?

[NoMoreJerks]

SilentVoice -- Awwww, what's the matter, disappointed that this guy didn't turn out to be the angel that you were trying to portray him as, the guy who supposedly had no clue what was going on? Who was interested in me throughout and hadn't disrespected me? I had made my interest in dating and not wanting casual no-strings-attached sex clear. The fact that he then asked to come over for sex, isn't disrespectful because it wasn't something that we had mutually agreed upon as consenting adults, to just have casual sex and not date? Sure. Because you want to desperately believe that I can make no sense, that I can't be right, that I am addicted to drama and that therefore anything this guy does, is of my own making -- because I am "messed up." OK. As you wish. I still fail to see why you are putting in so much effort in posting on this thread if that's your opinion of me.

 

Fact is, this thread started after date 2 or date 3 (I don't remember). At that point, he had been texting me daily, throughout the day. He had already asked me out for 2 dates (had gone after me for 2 weeks to ask me out on dates 1 and 2), and I was busy and wasn't sure at first if I should be dating. So he had come on real strong at first. This thread evolved as the situation evolved. Some time after date 3, I felt like things started cooling down on his end. It's not that I am changing my word, but that I am observing that he changed his view / interest level / whatever.

Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[clia]

I think some of us weren't getting the red flags because we didn't get the whole story, either because we missed it in your posts or because it's kind of been trickling out. I was under the impression from your initial posts that this guy was pursuing you hard. Now it seems like it's really been a lot more lukewarm than I thought.

 

His coffee for a fourth date suggestion was because I said things were going too fast, so maybe he thought we could go back to square 1, coffee date. Which is fine.

 

I don't think it's fine at all, personally. He claims that he likes you and wants to date you and suggests coffee? To me, this sounds like a guy who doesn't want to spend any money on you at all or devote any effort to you at all. I don't get the coffee date thing. I think that's fine for a first meet for OLD, but that's about it. Certainly not for dates 2, 3, 4, or beyond. I mean, he can't suggest even drinks and appetizers? If it's truly a financial thing, surely there are things that you two could do in your city that don't cost that much money? Free concerts, walks, free days at the museum, dessert, zoo, etc... Coffee is just such a lack of effort. It's lazy.

 

I think this guy just doesn't have the money to take anyone out for dinner or movies or whatever. So he's lowering expectations and as soon as he got the chance to just spend time at home , and save money, he jumped on it.

 

I guess you need to decide if this is okay with you. If he isn't taking you out to dinner right now, at the beginning of your relationship, when he should be trying to pull out all stops to impress you, what do you think is going to happen later? You are going to be spending a lot of nights at home with a DVD and a bottle of two buck chuck.

 

So, basically you are meeting up for coffee today, Tuesday, and for dinner (which you are going to buy) on Sunday. Why aren't you getting together for dinner on Friday or Saturday night? (If it's because you have prior plans, then fine, but I would question strongly why he isn't taking you out on a weekend night at this point.)

 

Plus, the sex is an obvious plus (or his main interest, possibly). This is why I said he was treating me like he already had me in the "bag", basically. He stopped putting in any effort, was even being passive aggressive (not texting me for a whole day, and then pretending to be so busy on a Sunday that he couldn't send me a single text).

 

This is exactly why many people advise not to sleep together too soon.

[NoMoreJerks]

So, basically you are meeting up for coffee today, Tuesday, and for dinner (which you are going to buy) on Sunday. Why aren't you getting together for dinner on Friday or Saturday night? (If it's because you have prior plans, then fine, but I would question strongly why he isn't taking you out on a weekend night at this point

I told him I have a deadline on Oct. 5. So I told him the earliest I can do is Oct. 6 (Sunday). But he had suggested coffee anyway, not dinner. I said dinner would also be fine with me, because I thought he had assumed even THAT was going too fast. But come to think of it, maybe that's all this guy knows to do / is willing to put in the effort for: just lazy suggestions that are also cheap.

 

Anyway, I too felt the coffee idea (for a second date) was lazy. That's partly why I wasn't even sure at that point (when I first posted the thread). When I told my friends about that, they told me that it's possible he just wants to take things slow, etc. And to just go for it, and see what happens. I had told them I felt it was too lazy of him to just ask me for a second coffee date, but they didn't feel like I had much to lose by going for it. Then, I felt like if I accepted a coffee date, I'd be okaying his lack of effort, so instead I took up his offer of going for drinks (and mildly hinted about dinner, saying that the pub also has good food in case we decide to eat). We didn't eat, and I ended up paying for my own drinks at the pub when the waitress asked if we wanted a separate bill or together. He didn't take the initiative and ask for a joint bill, so I told her separate. We also split the bowling/pool thing. *shrug*

 

I think I am just going to cancel or just not show up.

[NoMoreJerks]

This is exactly why many people advise not to sleep together too soon.

Well, I really think that if the guy is decent and likes you enough, sure, he will want/expect sex, after you have sex early, but that won't stop him from wanting to spend time with you aside from sex. You know? Like, actually sitting down and talking, or doing something fun together, or whatever. I don't think he really liked me at that point (which is fine), but he wanted to keep on having sex (he was very attracted to me sexually/physically). Which again is fine, except that I don't want that sort of thing. When I said that, he backtracked and said he liked me and wouldn't want to pressure me. Now I don't know if he really means it, or is doing it as a way to keep me around, because he knows I will eventually cave in. I have no idea. But he hasn't logged on the dating site for the past 2 weeks (since we've been seeing each other).

[SilentVoice]

SilentVoice -- Awwww, what's the matter, disappointed that this guy didn't turn out to be the angel that you were trying to portray him as, the guy who supposedly had no clue what was going on? Who was interested in me throughout and hadn't disrespected me?

 

I had made my interest in dating and not wanting casual no-strings-attached sex clear. The fact that he then asked to come over for sex, isn't disrespectful because it wasn't something that we had mutually agreed upon as consenting adults, to just have casual sex and not date?

 

Sure. Because you want to desperately believe that I can make no sense, that I can't be right, that I am addicted to drama and that therefore anything this guy does, is of my own making -- because I am "messed up." OK. As you wish. I still fail to see why you are putting in so much effort in posting on this thread if that's your opinion of me.

 

Fact is, this thread started after date 2 or date 3 (I don't remember). At that point, he had been texting me daily, throughout the day. He had already asked me out for 2 dates (had gone after me for 2 weeks to ask me out on dates 1 and 2), and I was busy and wasn't sure at first if I should be dating. So he had come on real strong at first. This thread evolved as the situation evolved. Some time after date 3, I felt like things started cooling down on his end. It's not that I am changing my word, but that I am observing that he changed his view / interest level / whatever.

I am free to have an opinion, aren't I?

I have no intention of making you seem wrong -- what will be the point? However you need to have some self awareness.

 

My opinion is no way on the guy.

You want me to take your postings as accurate POV of this guy?

How would that be fair to him?

 

I am clearly saying the way you are acting - will allow any guy to use you. This has nothing to do with his character.

He isn't the one posting.

 

You go from hot to cold -- it is bizarre.

 

You start dating a guy -- you aren't too sure if you are ready to date. Which causes you not to be as interested -- you see him as smothering you. He backs off since he probably sees this - you invite him out - trying to show interest - however you showing him you're ups and downs. He pays for dinner some how in your head you need to return the favor -- for what reason, I don't know. You guys talk about having plans -- he decides to do something else instead, granted all he offered you before was coffee -- you take it as a huge disrespect -- for some odd reason -- when before he was only offering coffee -- you are pissed -- you want to show him you are in charge -- now you are taking sex off the table and taking him out to coffee - please tell me what I am missing.

 

No one is attacking you.

You asked for an opinion.

You don't have to take it

[clia]

I told him I have a deadline on Oct. 5. So I told him the earliest I can do is Oct. 6 (Sunday). But he had suggested coffee anyway, not dinner. I said dinner would also be fine with me, because I thought he had assumed even THAT was going too fast. But come to think of it, maybe that's all this guy knows to do / is willing to put in the effort for: just lazy suggestions that are also cheap.

 

Okay, as long as you are the one preventing the weekend night date!

 

It's not too fast to eat food with someone, especially after you've already slept together and have been out three times. Most people I know go out to dinner on dates 2+, and many do it on the first date. (What I used to like for a first date was meeting for drinks and then parlaying it into dinner if things were going well.) Dinner dates are a very normal thing to do, especially for people in their late 20s/early 30s. (Things can be a little different for the younger crowd.) The fact that he isn't even suggesting it is troubling to me. If it is a financial thing, he could be up front with you about that, but he hasn't been.

 

Anyway, I too felt the coffee idea (for a second date) was lazy. That's partly why I wasn't even sure at that point (when I first posted the thread). When I told my friends about that, they told me that it's possible he just wants to take things slow, etc. And to just go for it, and see what happens. I had told them I felt it was too lazy of him to just ask me for a second coffee date, but they didn't feel like I had much to lose by going for it. Then, I felt like if I accepted a coffee date, I'd be okaying his lack of effort, so instead I took up his offer of going for drinks (and mildly hinted about dinner, saying that the pub also has good food in case we decide to eat). We didn't eat, and I ended up paying for my own drinks at the pub when the waitress asked if we wanted a separate bill or together. He didn't take the initiative and ask for a joint bill, so I told her separate. We also split the bowling/pool thing. *shrug*

 

This is all important information. This is all signs of a lukewarm guy. I agree that you had little to lose by going on the second date, coffee or not, but he hasn't ramped it up yet. So what if he was frequently texting you? Texting is also easy, lazy behavior. He certainly isn't courting you or even trying to impress you. I can't even believe he made you pay for your own drinks and bowling/pool on your second date. And didn't buy you any food? And then you had sex with him that night? Girl....you have to set your expectations higher. You talk a big game about your expectations, but your actions do not support that. I would be turned off if my first date with a guy was a coffee date, and then on the second date we split the tab. I likely wouldn't go out with the guy again. But those are my expectations for a date. You need to figure out what yours are, and to stick with it. You deserve better.

 

I think I am just going to cancel or just not show up.

 

Don't not show up. But, I wouldn't blame you for cancelling. It really wouldn't be appealing at all to me at this point to meet this guy for a coffee date. Blech.

[NoMoreJerks]

Silentvoice: I don't go from hot to cold. He did. He chased after me for a week, to get me to go out with him. Then, again, for date #2. Despite that, he didn't ask me out for more than a coffee / drinks, which to me indicates he might be financially in a bad position. Otherwise I don't see why he'd show that much interest, and at the same time not ask me out for more than a coffee date. To me, that makes no sense, unless HE is interested but also wants to manage down the girl's expectations, or he doesn't have the money to date. Again, the problem is not from MY end, but from his. He then pulls back (for no reason that I can put my finger on, not because I didn't show interest in him -- we actually had a lot of fun bowling, etc.). It was again from his end. Didn't ask me out though he kept texting me multiple times a day. Said he was thinking about me, etc. But no dates. Maybe he wasn't sure what else to do that wouldn't cost him an arm and a leg (not that I expected fancy $200 restaurants in the first place). Maybe he was waiting for me to initiate because he wasn't sure what I was thinking. I don't know. I am not a mind reader. I go by what I see. That he didn't initiate the third date. And has so far not initiated a dinner date, or anything other than a coffee date, though he has shown interest and has been consistent in keeping in touch -- except during/after the weekend, when he thought he had something better going on (and knew he wouldn't have sex if we met up, since I wasn't feeling great). Again, the problem is from his end, not mine. He decided he didn't want anything that didn't involve sex. And I didn't want to have sex. I wasn't about to invite him for sex, just to meet up with him, you know? Then he acted all passive aggressive, like he was too good for me, to spend time texting me during his busy Sunday. OK..? Again, pretty passive aggressive, and I had not even said anything at that point about me being upset at him blowing me off. It was all from his end, again. The games, passive aggressiveness, blowing hot then going ice-cold and even insulting me by saying he prefers to hang out with his friends after HE had suggested that we hang out. He was managing down my expectations. Again, his doing, not my own doing. All that I talked about, was between me and my friends, and on this forum. None of that attitude, or the fact that I was upset, were expressed to him. No reason fo him to go all passive aggressive and claim he was too busy (to text). Wait, what? What did I say/do that made him say that? Again, all in his head, nothing to do with anything I did. I didn't even ignore his texts, though I responded in short mssges because I wasn't really enjoying the back and forth at that point. No reason to then go radio silent on me for the next 24 hours, though. Any more than I had reason to completely ignore him at that point, because he had blown me off like that. So it's perfectly normal for him to "back off" because I replied in short messages, but not OK for me to back off because he blew me off (and waited 3 hrs to respond to my mssg and tell me that he was blowing me off), and because he didn't text me for an entire day after that ? Wait, what??! To me, none of what you are saying he did, indicates healthy behavior by someone who is interested in me. Nor are your suggestions that I dealt with this in a somehow unhealthy manner, in any way reflective of the reality. Truth is, I showed a healthy dose of interest, without getting clingy. I didn't manipulate and play games, like a lot of women do to make men chase after them hard. I was even willing to take the risk and ask HIM out to dinner. IMO, that's healthy. It's not ideal, but it's ok to ask a guy out sometimes. My male friend's gf has done that , as early as date 3, and I know he doesn't think any less of her, and hasn't stopped "chasing" after her and setting up dates himself. To me, my behavior seems perfectly healthy and ok, it's his behavior that needs to be criticized, no matter what the reason that he is doing this is (financial or other).

 

I just try to make sure that I am not being taken advantage of (there are signs that I am being taken advantage of), while trying to show some interest. He even said he doesn't want to be boring. If he felt he was being boring, surely he could've made an effort to do more than ask me out on coffee dates?? Surely he is NOT that socially awkward that he can't think of anything to do? He seems like he has quite a few friends and does stuff with them (or so he made it look like!), so all of a sudden he doesn't know the rules of social interaction and doesn't know how not to bore a woman!??! I think he was just playing on my feelings, getting me to think he was being all cute and interested, because he showed some "vulnerability" of his. It's mindgames. I said so from the start, when he first mentioned that. It doesn't seem normal to me, for a guy to tell someone he's been on 3 dates with, that he's scared of boring her. That's stuff you keep to yourself. None of this is normal. Disclosure about just being out of a relationship, etc., is fine, because you want to be transparent about not using someone as a rebound, etc., but that's about where it stops for me. That's about the only disclosure I'd make, to someone I am "courting".

[NoMoreJerks]

Well, Clia, I was already unsure at that point (date #2) after he split the bill on the drinks. I mean, I asked to split it, but I waited for him to say something before I told the waitress to split it when she asked if we were paying together or separate, and he didn't say a word. I wasn't about to tell the waitress to put it all on his bill. That would've been rude of me. The bowling thing, we split the bill, but not in a formal way. He covered some of it, and then I covered other parts of it (we also played pool, and the payment was separate). He got me all the drinks, and paid for the pool, I paid for the bowling. I wasn't counting who spent how much at that point, and it wasn't dry and cold like, that's my bill and that's yours. But again, you're right, I think he could've covered the entire cost (it wasn't THAT expensive) especially that I paid for my drinks back at the bar where we started off.

 

I thought, though ,that I should give him another chance, because we all make such mistakes / awkwardness when it comes to bills. I know I am usually awkward about splitting, etc. And I certainly don't want to come off as a golddigger and be rude and put it on his bill when he is not making a movement towards picking up the bill. I think he would also have split the bill if the waiter hadn't assumed he was paying for it, and handed it to him. As for the drinks at the pub on date #2, I had hinted that we could have dinner there, and when the waitress asked if we were going to need menus, he said, bring the menus, we might eat later. When I later asked him if he was going to eat, he said no. I wasn't especially hungry, and I didn't think it was appropriate for me to just sit there and eat while he watched. He didn't suggest getting at least an appetizer, so I didn't pursue it any further. *shrug*

 

The reason I got angry is that he was doing the hot / cold thing like my 'ex'. Blowing up my phone with texts (easy to fire off texts, not a sign of effort) , and then blowing me off like he did on the weekend. Then playing mind games by acting like I didn't even exist (not texting me at all for the entire day and claiming he was busy). To me, that was a really big red flag.

 

Should I cancel ? Or just go and see him, and then cancel the dinner date later on today?

 

BTW, I've gone out with someone else from OLD, and our first date was a dinner date. He set it up, suggested the place, but when the waiter asked if we wanted to pay separate or together, he didn't say a word. I told him to bring separate bills. Disappointing. Then he suggested we go for drinks at the pub, and again, I paid my own way. But at that point, I was pretty pissed off that he had put me in that awkward situation of deciding, so I just didn't even wait, told the waitress I was paying for my beers right away and not starting a tab. I didn't see the guy again , even though he wanted to keep on seeing me. But mainly because he kept talking about himself and his job the whole time and didn't ask me anythign about myself. And also because he put me in that awkward situation. The least he could've done was man up and tell the waiter HIMSELF that we were going to split it. Honestly, I don't know if it's rudeness/disrespect, disinterest, or social awkwardness at play when it comes to men letting me decide whether or not to pay for my meal. I automatically assume if he doesn't pick up the bill, he wants us to split but is too chicken to say it. But I don't know if that's a sign of disinterest or what. They all seemed pretty interested in continuing to see me (no , I didn't have sex with this guy!)

Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[TB Rhine]

This thread is turning into a master class in male-female dating dynamics. I hope the nice guys and noobs are keeping up.

[NoMoreJerks]

Is it really standard/accepted behavior for a guy not to say a word when the waiter/waitress asks if we're going to pay separate or together? I usually expect that if the guy is ok with paying, he'd pick up the bill anyway / not wait for the woman to decide.. and that if he doesn't, and leaves it up to the woman to decide, he doesn't want to pay for hers as well. It's only common sense, right? If I were a guy and wanted to pay for a girl's dinner, I wouldn't wait for her to tell me to pay for it or to tell the waiter that I'm paying for it.

 

Is it a sign of disinterest if a guy puts you in that awkward situation of deciding who's going to pay for whose dinner?

 

I've also gone out with men who didn't even want to risk the waitress bringing separate bills or putting me in the awkward situation of being asked if I want separate bills so they went ahead of time (during washroom break or whatever) and told them to bring over one bill, or they took care of the bill without me even seeing it/ being brought to the table. I found that pretty classy, though no, I don't expect that to happen all the time with the same guy.

Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[TB Rhine]

Is this the new guy we're talking about? If so, I'd say it was simple nervousness on his part. He's inexperienced (and cowed by feminism) enough to think you might actually be offended if he unilaterally offers to pick up the check. So your guy may be lacking experience and/or spine, but I don't think he's disinterested or playing any kind of a mind game with you.

 

If it was the other guy, meanwhile, I'd say that there may be a subtle power play/re-negotiation of power dynamics at play. It's obviously not clear whether you guys are a couple/are going to be a couple at this point, and he's either trying to puzzle out where your head is at by seeing how you react to things - waiting to see if you'd offer and/or insist on paying part of the bill, etc. - or he's just a little off-balance in general and his normal instincts have been knocked askew a little bit.

 

Yes, standard convention is that the guy would offer to pay (in fact, this would most likely be the assumption on the part of everyone involved), and if the woman objects to this, she should wait til the server/whatever is gone and then tell the guy that she insist on paying, at least for her own portion. This is likely to discomfit the guy a little bit, as it may make him question whether the two of you are actually on a "date" (he may start to think he is about to be friendzoned). This will likely make him more unsure of how to act going forward, at least if he's even remotely the self-conscious type.

[NoMoreJerks]

Is this the new guy we're talking about? If so, I'd say it was simple nervousness on his part. He's inexperienced (and cowed by feminism) enough to think you might actually be offended if he unilaterally offers to pick up the check. So your guy may be lacking experience and/or spine, but I don't think he's disinterested or playing any kind of a mind game with you.

Well, there's that too. But isn't it even more nerve-wrecking to risk the drama of letting a woman decide? What if a woman got offended and walked out on him? etc. It seems he (and the other guy before him) just wanted to put all the responsibility on me, so that no matter what, they'd end up being the good guy (hey, I let you decide and you decided to pay for your own portion and didn't object so my behavior was ok/appropriate; or hey, I let her decide and she put it on MY bill, what a golddigger!).

 

I've had two guys do this to me so far. Wait for me to decide what to do with the bill. The other guy I went out with (from OLD too), who asked me out to dinner (date #1) , and this current guy who did that at the pub (and would've done the same at the resto if the waiter hadn't already decided for us that it was gonna be one bill and hadn't handed it over to him right away ). I can understand for a first date, he might not want to get his balls busted by a crazy super-feminist who gets all insulted, but if a man isn't willing to take that risk (most women wouldn't bust balls for THAT), what does that say about him? I've had men take that risk and pay without me even knowing they've paid. I thought that was rather sweet. I don't come off as a ball buster even if I do appear very independent and outspoken. *shrug* I don't think the problem is on my end. I certainly do not mind having someone pay for my dinner, though it does make me a bit uncomfortable at times (especially if there is discussion about split/together bills, etc.). I've allowed guys to do that for me, and no problem, no awkwardness ,nothing.

Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[clia]

I'm not at all criticizing you for how you handled the paying. I think you did the only thing you could have done, and you're right, it can get really awkward. I vastly prefer to date the guys who quickly grab the bill and say "My treat!"

 

Well, Clia, I was already unsure at that point (date #2) after he split the bill on the drinks. I mean, I asked to split it, but I waited for him to say something before I told the waitress to split it when she asked if we were paying together or separate, and he didn't say a word.

 

One thing you can do when you are in this situation is to pull out your phone and suddenly act very interested in it, or pull out your compact and check your make-up, or rummage around in your purse as if you are looking for something very important. Do something that indicates that you are distracted and didn't hear the question, thus forcing him to answer. Or you can look at him and say "Your call!" And force him to answer. Let him say "separate."

 

The bowling thing, we split the bill, but not in a formal way. He covered some of it, and then I covered other parts of it (we also played pool, and the payment was separate). He got me all the drinks, and paid for the pool, I paid for the bowling. I wasn't counting who spent how much at that point, and it wasn't dry and cold like, that's my bill and that's yours. But again, you're right, I think he could've covered the entire cost (it wasn't THAT expensive) especially that I paid for my drinks back at the bar where we started off.

 

Yeah, I get it. I can picture it. But to me, that kind of back and forth is more for dates maybe six and higher, you know? After you've both kind of established that "yeah, this is going somewhere, we are heading toward being a couple." On your second date, I feel he should have stepped up and just paid for it. Like you said, it wasn't that expensive. Just my opinion, though.

 

I just personally find splitting the bill to be tacky on a date. I have less of a problem with taking turns paying, but for me, I like it when the man takes charge and pays for the first three or four dates. It makes me feel special and like he wants to take me out and be with me.

 

Should I cancel ? Or just go and see him, and then cancel the dinner date later on today?

 

Eh, I don't know. I guess you could meet him for coffee and see what he says. I don't know that you should buy him dinner on Sunday, though. I wouldn't.

 

BTW, I've gone out with someone else from OLD, and our first date was a dinner date. He set it up, suggested the place, but when the waiter asked if we wanted to pay separate or together, he didn't say a word. I told him to bring separate bills. Disappointing. Then he suggested we go for drinks at the pub, and again, I paid my own way.

 

I hate this. Really. It is so awkward. Like I said above, avoid making the decision. Sit there in silence if you have to. Stare at him. I can totally understand if an OLD guy doesn't want to invest a lot in a first meeting, but then don't suggest dinner. Do a drink or coffee.

 

Is it a sign of disinterest if a guy puts you in that awkward situation of deciding who's going to pay for whose dinner?

 

I don't think this is an easy question to answer. I've heard stories on this board about women who get all insulted if the man tries to pay, so there could be some confusion on men's parts about whether the woman wants them to pay, so they maybe leave it up to her. But...I personally don't know any women who would be bothered if a man picked up the bill on those early dates, so I tend to doubt those stories. I find it chivalrous. I personally consider it to be a pink flag, and to indicate that maybe the guy isn't all that into me. To me, it's just really tacky when the guy doesn't pick up the bill on those early dates. Of course, others may vary and I'm sure the golddigger police will be here soon to tear into me.

[Babolat]

Hi everyone,

 

So some of you might remember my story. If not, to sum it up, I was in an on-off pseudo-relationship thingy with a douchebag/abusive guy and we ended things a few months ago. I've been NC since June, so about 3 months and a half. He has since contacted me and all (on the phone, so I couldn't possibly block him short of changing my number), but I've remained NC. I have lost feelings for him, so it's all good.

 

For the past 3 months since the break-up, I had been feeling like I was not ready for dating , but a few weeks ago, I finally felt that maybe I was ready, and thought it would help to test the waters a little bit, and try the online dating thing. So I did, and went out on a coffee date with this guy. He was socially awkward, and the date felt really weird and awkward. But he seemed like a nice guy. And because I felt like I was always attracted to bad guys (like my ex), I thought I should give him another chance. So he asked me out on a second date, and this time we went for drinks, then we went bowling and played pool as well. It was ok, but I felt like there was too much "formality" in the way we were interacting/talking to each other. Almost like, the way men would've courted women in the old days, I guess. It's just weird, and I don't know how to explain it / put my finger on it. I thought it's because of nerves, and that the more we get used to each other, the more we'll just be our own selves and just talk a little less formally but it hasn't changed much since then. Anyway, I did have sex with him on the second date, but he's been very consistent and good since then -- he always texts, though he doesn't call. He's always the one initiating texts, so I was waiting on him to ask me out again but he didn't. So I asked him out on a third date because I felt like he was doing all the initiating/chasing and that I should show interest as well. We went to dinner, and he ended up paying because somehow, the waiter gave him the bill (and didn't split it) :S . I let him pay, even though I'd asked him out, because I didn't want to insist on paying, and end up being taken advantage of like my ex. Anyway, next time, I'll make up for it.

 

Anyway, the problem is: I still don't have any feelings for this guy, or much of an attraction. It's not the same as the way I felt with my ex, that excitement is lacking. This is my second time dating, so I don't know if this is generally the norm early on, or what. I mean, my ex was so toxic and the thing we had together was so drama-filled that I am not even sure at this point what normal dating/relationship would look like. So maybe it's the fact that it's so drama-free that I feel that there is no spark? Because he's so consistent and always texts, I don't have to stress out over whether he wants me, and so I am taking him for granted? I don't know, I usually don't like being chased, and always end up doing the chasing, but this time it's different and I am not sure I like it.

 

I guess I am not sure what I am asking here, but has anyone felt this way? I don't want to lead him on and string him along, so I guess I am wondering if I should end things because I am not feeling the spark? Or just wait it out? He seems very romantic, holds my hand, kisses my hand, kisses me , he's kissed me after our 2nd and 3rd date more than my ex kissed me in over a year. I feel like we're not on the same wavelength though. I am just worried that something died inside of me after that experience with the ex. After my break-up with my ex, I did a few one night stands, and contrary to the way I developed feelings for my ex after having sex with him (he was my first), I stopped myself from having any feelings with those people (well, it helped that I didn't have their contact info, am never going to see them again). But I feel like maybe that made me detach sex from feelings and now I am kinda trapped in that "great, let's have sex, but I am not getting attached to you" black hole? I don't know. I don't know if it's because of the guy, or a general thing I am going through. I guess this is partly a rant and partly a question/request to share experiences if you've had similar experiences. Maybe I am just being overprotective of myself and don't want to get hurt? After we had sex for the first time, I told him that I had broken up with my ex a few months ago, and that he cheated on me, and that I wasn't sure if I should be dating. So he knows, it's not like I am tricking him into being my rebound. He said, it's ok, we'll take it slowly. But I still feel bad about the whole situation? And now I feel trapped, I feel like it's too late to end things, because I will hurt him.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I read the first 4 pages and my eyes got blurry!

 

Try this, don't date, don't have sex, work on being friends with a man, first. I have been doing this, with woman though of course, and so far, so good. Being friends for a period of time helps you see who they are. And regarding sex, if you really NEED it, consider a FWB.

 

You should consider seeing a psychologist too as you have signs of codependency. Most woman in abusive (verbal, emotional and/or physical) are codependent. Learn how to break that BEFORE you get into another LTR. "Codependency No More" is a great read on the subject.

[Babolat]

Well, there's that too. But isn't it even more nerve-wrecking to risk the drama of letting a woman decide? What if a woman got offended and walked out on him? etc. It seems he (and the other guy before him) just wanted to put all the responsibility on me, so that no matter what, they'd end up being the good guy (hey, I let you decide and you decided to pay for your own portion and didn't object so my behavior was ok/appropriate; or hey, I let her decide and she put it on MY bill, what a golddigger!).

 

I've had two guys do this to me so far. Wait for me to decide what to do with the bill. The other guy I went out with (from OLD too), who asked me out to dinner (date #1) , and this current guy who did that at the pub (and would've done the same at the resto if the waiter hadn't already decided for us that it was gonna be one bill and hadn't handed it over to him right away ). I can understand for a first date, he might not want to get his balls busted by a crazy super-feminist who gets all insulted, but if a man isn't willing to take that risk (most women wouldn't bust balls for THAT), what does that say about him? I've had men take that risk and pay without me even knowing they've paid. I thought that was rather sweet. I don't come off as a ball buster even if I do appear very independent and outspoken. *shrug* I don't think the problem is on my end. I certainly do not mind having someone pay for my dinner, though it does make me a bit uncomfortable at times (especially if there is discussion about split/together bills, etc.). I've allowed guys to do that for me, and no problem, no awkwardness ,nothing.

 

With OLD I always paid (2 years ago) and my one OLD meet up last week, I paid too.

[NoMoreJerks]

I've read that book, and I definitely think I have some co-dependency traits! Thanks for the reply Babolat. I find that co-dependent people also end up trying to go for guys they can "fix", guys who appear to have "issues," and my "ex" gave the impression that he had so many of those. I thought that if only I could be his Florence Nightingale, and fix him, he'd be perfect and we could live happily ever after. God, I was such a retard. I'm working on this stuff.

[Babolat]

Reality check: This guy is NOT like your "ex." That guy was a traveling businessman of some kind who enjoyed having various women to have sex with wherever he went, and evidently he told you what you wanted to hear to have you in that role. It hurt you.

 

This is a regular guy who might be a dumbass or whatever; maybe he's not much into you, but that happens all the time. All you need to do is decide whether you want to spend any more of your time with him. And after the mountains of negative text you've devoted to him - there is no way I can believe that the answer to that could possibly be a YES.

 

Agreed, 100%. Stop putting so much of the control with him, stop reacting, try responding. Put yourself in a place of strength, instead of him.

 

I can share this as you sound a lot like meh. I have done a lot of growing over the past 6 - 12 months and I am seeing a lot of things in my life differently now. I use to react, now I respond. I use to be in a weak place, now I am in a stronger place. I use to worry about them, now I worry about me.

[Babolat]

I've read that book, and I definitely think I have some co-dependency traits! Thanks for the reply Babolat. I find that co-dependent people also end up trying to go for guys they can "fix", guys who appear to have "issues," and my "ex" gave the impression that he had so many of those. I thought that if only I could be his Florence Nightingale, and fix him, he'd be perfect and we could live happily ever after. God, I was such a retard. I'm working on this stuff.

 

I was the fixer in my last LTR..it will never work. And you are not a retard, you are self-aware and being introspective...THAT is pretty cool.

[NoMoreJerks]

A little bit of an update:

 

Just got back from the coffee date. We each ordered our own thing. He wasn't sure where we stood at that point, and so was very awkward, didn't touch / hug / kiss me. It was almost like date #1 all over again, except this time, we knew a little bit about one another (he remembered everything I had told him about myself, so he was paying attention on dates 1, 2, and 3, which is a good sign because I've noticed a lot of guys don't listen), and I kinda asked him some questions to know more about him, beyond the usual small talk like what movies you like. I asked him what his career plans are, etc. Just to see if he's willing to get a better job, assuming of course that he doesn't have the money to take a woman out on a date. Anyway, I am not sure at this point if he's really cheap, not interested in me and that's why never treats me to stuff (well , aside from that dinner), or because he's scared to do that because I seem very independent and might get offended (though by now he knows that I didn't mind him paying for the dinner)...

 

Anyway, the conversation was good fun and went smoothly. I talked briefly about the fact that I asked him to back off. I told him (again) that I have a lot of ex baggage, and he said, it's fine, and we can cool things down to your comfort level. And btw, he knows he blew me off. He apologized for Saturday. See, it wasn't that hard after all, was it? To apologize, that is... But don't blow me off again.

 

Anyway, the odd thing is: he mssged me 10 minutes before the coffee date and said he might be a touch late because he had to answer a few emails... I felt there was an element of passive aggressiveness/control going on there. I mean, couldn't those emails wait? OK fine, maybe work emails, but that's new to me. And he usually doesn't stay that late at work, he usually goes home to get changed before dates... And he also told me that he didn't have much to do at work today, except run some tests and watch the screen until the results came out... so basically, those emails came up all of a sudden at 6pm? Anyway, he also came just wearing a tshirt and jeans, he usually wore dress shirts, so he was dressed down. I was also pretty casual, jeans and a nice flowery top, nothing over the top, and very little make-up, but still.... i felt like he was underdressed for a date. Maybe he just isn't interested in me and isn't putting in the effort.. I'd hate to think that someone would show off their couch potato personality so early on.. usually people put on their nicest face early in the dating game.

 

Anyway,towards the end he kept checking his phone a few times, claiming he was getting work emails and 2 hrs after we started the date, he said maybe he should leave to answer those emails. *shrug*

 

We hugged and that's it.

 

And BTW, when he mssged me he was going to be late, I also went there late, but he wasn't there, so I sat down and didn't order anything, just to get a table, and to also see if he would offer to pay for my coffee. He didn't. I don't think it's a financial thing to be honest. Anyway, I was going to give him 5 minutes after sitting down and then leave if he was going to show up that late.

Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[TB Rhine]

You're going to give yourself an ulcer, over-analyzing things so much.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes having to answer a few emails is just having to answer a few emails. If he said he couldn't go out with you that night 'cause he had to answer emails, THEN I would say he was full of it. It is a little strange that he would use that as a segue into ending the date, but maybe he was just tired or whatnot and isn't great at making excuses.

 

Ultimately, I think you're only into this guy because he's giving you mixed signals. If he was acting like he was head over heels for you, you'd quickly go all ambivalent on him again. This may be why you're drawn to abusive guys - there's always a steady supply of drama/things to obsess over/erratic behavior on the other person's part to interpret. This guy seems pretty straightforward to me, and insofar as he's maybe been a bit flaky here and there, it doesn't seem to be to a level that's at all beyond the ordinary. I suspect that if/when you guys do settle into something (emphasis on the settle), you'll be terribly bored with him.

Edited October 2, 2013 by TB Rhine

[NoMoreJerks]

TB Rhine, well, honestly, I shrugged it off.I shrugged off his lateness, and also the fact that he wanted to leave. Though 2 hours over coffee is sufficient so it's fine. I just don't want to be taken for a fool , that's all. I was going to leave if he didn't show up within 5 minutes since I already left home a bit late after I got his message. So it would've been about 10-15 minutes late already at that point. He asked if I had been waiting very long, and i said only for 5 minutes. he's usually been prompt in the past, and always was there 5-10 minutes late and texted me that he was already there, before I even got there. I 've never been late to any of my dates. I am very German in that sense. It's a pet peeve of mine.

[NoMoreJerks]

Ultimately, I think you're only into this guy because he's giving you mixed signals

well, I am not sure his signals are "mixed" at this point. I think it really screams ambivalence on his part. part of the reason i am not attracted to him is stuff he does, like, not being classy enough to get me a coffee or dinner, or whatever. if he's cheap, it's bad. if he can't afford it, it's bad. if he's worried i might get upset because i'm a crazy ultra-feminist, it's bad because 1) he has precedent that i am not offended if he buys me dinner; 2) he has no balls ; man up and just buy the damn thing. i'm not expecting you to buy me a goddamn Porsche! what's next, slamming the door in my face because you're afraid i might get offended if you hold the door for me? one thing's for sure, it's not classy and i like classy men who treat me like they appreciate me and my company. i've had a taste of that, with one guy who acted like a gentleman, and it felt so nice. even though i am not comfortable in settings where i am treated like i am appreciated, i still appreciated that gesture and liked it a lot, and now, when i am not treated that way (by this guy or the one before him who asked me out to dinner and then didn't pay for mine), it's a little bit disappointing. Edited October 2, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[Els]

Oh, NMJ. Waaaaaaaayyyy too much drama at this point, yes?

 

If you have to analyze it THIS much this early on, there are only two possibilities: 1) He isn't the right guy for you, or 2) You might need to reconsider your mindset re: relationships. Maybe even both?

[Mrlonelyone]

NMJ

 

 

Have you ever dated for more than three months a guy who was totally 90%-100%, no doubt about it, into you? Yes/no.

 

 

If the answer is yes, then I can assure you there are such men in the world for you.

 

 

If the answer is no, then perhaps you are on some level in need of drama. In which case you are like most young women.

 

 

Oh, NMJ. Waaaaaaaayyyy too much drama at this point, yes?

 

If you have to analyze it THIS much this early on, there are only two possibilities: 1) He isn't the right guy for you, or 2) You might need to reconsider your mindset re: relationships. Maybe even both?

 

 

This. As a rule relationships only get worse with time. The relationships that go the distance just start out really great, and decay very slowly.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

[NoMoreJerks]

Oh, NMJ. Waaaaaaaayyyy too much drama at this point, yes?

 

If you have to analyze it THIS much this early on, there are only two possibilities: 1) He isn't the right guy for you, or 2) You might need to reconsider your mindset re: relationships. Maybe even both?

I analyze everything. I am a thinker / analyzer. This is my job, I do it every day for a living. That's why it's so ingrained in me. I like analyzing, and I can't say it's a very bad trait. The last time I didn't analyze, I ended up getting sucked into a black hole and getting abused and cheated on. I like to be in control, and being in control (of my own decisions) makes me need to analyze someone's behavior/interest level, etc. We all do that ALL the time. Geez, 99% of the posts on here are about that, and most people here post that stuff, including long-time posters. There's nothing wrong in analyzing one's own behavior and others' behavior. That's how you can notice red flags, etc. On second thoughts, something that you might have attributed to some factor or excused, might look like a red flag after all.