No Spark? or Not Used to Drama-Free Dating?

[NoMoreJerks]

You are putting forth extremes in reactions: outrage or doormat.

 

The heathy middle ground is recognizing this guy of 3 dates is not a match, and telling him so. You need something he isn't offering. No need to demonize him.

Well, if he had not blown me off and then acted like nothing had happened, I would've felt no need to demonize him. In fact, all the things I had said until that point, were about how we might not be a good match, etc. It's only when he blew me off like that, THEN started making small-talk to make sure he still had me in the bag, that I started "demonizing" him. I don't like that word, because it assumes that he really isn't a bad person/trying to take advantage, and that I am just projecting/attributing things to him that he hasn't done. No, he did all that, and some more (mind games/passive aggressiveness). And anyway, I never said a word to him, and I still think I am a decent enough person not to tell him anything about this, or even that I don't think we're a good match (i.e. that he's not good enough for me) because I know it can be a blow to one's ego. I don't owe him that explanation, and I am not his dating coach to inform him of what he did wrong that made me turn him down.

[NoMoreJerks]

Correct.

 

Do you wish you'd known that before sex?

I don't really care. The important thing is not to be taken advantage of. When I had sex, I did it because I wanted to. Now, I don't want to because I know he wants to take advantage of me (he's not serious about me). It's what you do after you know, that counts. I let my "ex" take advantage of me even after finding out he wasn't interested in anything more than sex. I just came up with excuse after excuse to justify his behavior, overanalyze, ignore red flags, etc. That's what I don't want to do. Ignore red flags. This guy is obviously screaming that he's not serious about me. He didn't even ask me out for dinner and didn't ask me out to date #3, for Christ's sake. Anyway, I don't think sex made a difference. He would've waited for as long as he had to, if he was after sex only. It would've made things worse, because then I might've fallen for him and he could've hurt my feelings. I'm glad I found out sooner rather than later.

[xxoo]

I think the important thing for you to realize is that his behavior was very typical of someone in a new dating situation. If you expect early sex to be casual sex, you won't be proven wrong very often.

[xxoo]

There is no power in viewing yourself as a victim--no control of your own life and your own dating experiences.

 

If you see how the decisions you made contributed to a situation that is resulted in you feeling taken advantage of, you can take control of your dating life and have better experiences in the future.

 

That's what the posters here want for you.

[NoMoreJerks]

Why would that be wrong for him, since it's what you did?

Uh wait, what? Where did I say it was wrong for him to have sex with me? WTF ? Are you putting stuff in my mouth again? As usual? :confused: back on my ignore list you go! I don't even know you even got OFF my ignore list. Must've been because I hadn't logged on for a long time.

 

"Dating" is usually what happens BEFORE the "serious" is established.

If they're not even dating with the aim of FINDING someone they can be serious about (and I could potentially be that person they MIGHT get serious with), then pretending otherwise IS evil and wrong. It's what players do.

Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

also if you go back to where I quoted you, you said for him to text you IF HE'S UP FOR IT.

No, the exact text I sent him, is to text me when he was done, so we can do something light , unless he was too tired (since I figured he would've had a 12 hour day). I was even willing to accept him to blow me off, because he might be tired. But when he did blow me off, but not because he was tired, but because he wanted to do other things with other people, that's what was rude.

[xxoo]

No, the exact text I sent him, is to text me when he was done, so we can do something light , unless he was too tired (since I figured he would've had a 12 hour day). I was even willing to accept him to blow me off, because he might be tired. But when he did blow me off, but not because he was tired, but because he wanted to do other things with other people, that's what was rude.

 

Ok, it was rude. Someone you had 3 dates with turned out to be rude, and not so into you. That's why we date...to determine interest and compatibility.

 

This went well. Within 4 dates, you were clear about his intentions. You had casual sex with him once, and he was keeping the door open for more. What is the reason for outrage?

[NoMoreJerks]

I texted him and told him this was going too fast for me. I asked him if he was interested in dating me , or if he was after the casual sex. He said he liked me and wanted to date me, and he doesn't do the casual thing. I told him I have a lot of ex baggage (as I had told him after we had sex after our 2nd date), and felt like things were going too fast. But that I liked him so far and wanted to get to know him more. He said it's totally fair,and that he's OK with slowing everything down, that he doesn't want to mess anything up, that he likes me a lot as well. I told him that that's good to know, and that I wasn't sure how to say it, but that I was glad I did. He said he was glad I told him, and that he wouldn't want me to keep it bottled up if it was bothering me. He then suggested having a coffee again some time. I said coffee or dinner would work , but no sex. I said it was my treat this time (he had treated me to dinner last time, even though I had asked him out). So we're going to meet for dinner, at a restaurant I picked.

 

[NoMoreJerks]

so either you are lying (that does not sound like it was discussed Thursday as yout said this was the same day) or you are making excuses to end things

Where is the lie? Seriously? We had discussed it on Thursday and he had suggested it on Thursday, I didn't mention the entire story, just what was texted that day. And he always asks what I'm up to for the day, what my plans are. I was kinda unsure if we were on or off, and I assumed we were on, unless he got back to me about being too tired. That's why I was waiting for confirmation from him, the day of, in case he thought he'd be too tired to do something. Seriously, get help, if you think your life purpose is to "prove" that someone is lying on a forum. I also stated that he wanted to hang out, that's what he wanted to do, when he suggested that we hang out on Saturday. That's why I wasn't sure, because I felt like it was getting too casual. Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

Haha this is an advice forum.

 

I'm trying to help you to see your behavior is not acceptable.

 

It's not my life and I will not like sleep over it.

 

I guess everyone else providing advice needs to get help as well:rolleyes:

 

I feel bad for you as I was abused as well but you are completely out of touch with reality.

If you're constantly personally attacking the person you're providing "advice" to, that's not much advice. Sounds like you have issues yourself. Those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others.

[clia]

I texted him and told him this was going too fast for me. I asked him if he was interested in dating me , or if he was after the casual sex. He said he liked me and wanted to date me, and he doesn't do the casual thing. I told him I have a lot of ex baggage (as I had told him after we had sex after our 2nd date), and felt like things were going too fast. But that I liked him so far and wanted to get to know him more. He said it's totally fair,and that he's OK with slowing everything down, that he doesn't want to mess anything up, that he likes me a lot as well. I told him that that's good to know, and that I wasn't sure how to say it, but that I was glad I did. He said he was glad I told him, and that he wouldn't want me to keep it bottled up if it was bothering me. He then suggested having a coffee again some time. I said coffee or dinner would work , but no sex. I said it was my treat this time (he had treated me to dinner last time, even though I had asked him out). So we're going to meet for dinner, at a restaurant I picked.

 

 

So he cancels your plans and disrespects you (according to you) and you decide to reward him by taking him out and buying him dinner?

 

 

I don't get it.

[NoMoreJerks]

So he cancels your plans and disrespects you (according to you) and you decide to reward him by taking him out and buying him dinner?

 

 

I don't get it.

No, I am not rewarding him. I still think he disrespected me, and I think he has some apologizing to do. Buying him dinner does not cancel out his behavior nor does it reward it.

 

He actually tried to make some small talk before this happened. He said we should watch a movie some time, and then see what happens after (referring to sex). That's what prompted my response. Also, I am only buying dinner because I should've paid last time (since I was the one who asked him out), but he ended up paying last time. It's a matter of principle. He knows his limits now, and he knows not everything flies. Well, let's hope he knows his limits. We'll find out soon enough. I am glad I told him to back off, though.

[NoMoreJerks]

Haha I'm Not attacking you.

 

I'm telling you the truth and how normal people handle dating situations

 

Have I called you names?

 

no I'm giving you a harsh reality check.

Aww, that's cute. But the most abusive people aren't the ones who call you names, but the ones who silently, slowly but surely, make you think you're a sh*tty person. Been there, had that done to me.

[NoMoreJerks]

Abused people are sometimes the worst abusers. I didn't miss the part where you were abused. This is why I try to keep a check on my feelings and whether or not what I am doing will hurt someone. I think so should you. It's easy to say others have issues, and to then pin everything they do or all their problems with relationships, on THEM, but as they say, just because someone is paranoid doesn't mean no one is out there to get them. Anyway, I'm not so much giving this guy another chance as just exploring things and establishing my boundaries (with myself). It's good ,because in the past, I would never have dared or dreamed of telling a guy to back off. I am glad I did it. It's like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. It feels so liberating, to say no to sex. I was blunt, and I may have hurt his feelings by implying he was using me, and that may create toxicity / bitterness down the line, if we continue to see each other, but we'll see what happens. I had to be blunt. There was no other way unfortunately. It kinda feels awkward to "go back" and act like the sex part hadn't happened, but I want to give that a try. I want to see what dating without sex looks like.

 

And you know, the fact that he responded in the way he did, made me feel respected and to respect him a little bit . For all I know he could be lying , but I won't assume it, nor will I get carried away and assume he is being completely truthful as well.

 

I've never had a guy respect me, and this felt like respect, when I told him to back off and he accepted that. Maybe the key to respect is to let people KNOW your boundaries.

 

Anyway, we talked on the phone for a little bit. For the first time.

Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

Well, I was like that when I first came here and was still dealing with the "ex" stuff, which brought me here.

 

But, I have done a lot of thinking and growing over the past 4 months or so, and I have changed a lot and become a more balanced person who sees others' views and admits to some of them. It doesn't mean I have to accept everything everyone says here. Or that just because everyone says it here, it's accurate. It's not possible to put all the details of conversations/texts on here, and sometimes, that opens the way for misinterpretation and misunderstandings. Only the OP usually knows the full context of things, and sometimes, things that people giving advice might say, might sound totally off, because the posters were not there to experience the tone, or whatever (just an example). That sorta stuff makes a lot of difference. Anyway, I am open to suggestions and advice, like a while ago, clia posted something in a less aggressive fashion, and I was less "aggressive" with her/him, and more willing to accept some of what he/she said. It's not that I don't like harsh advice. I've been hearing that from my friends for over a year now, and I've grown to appreciate it. But there are different ways to say harsh things and to get someone to listen to them/entertain that possibility. I tend to shut down when someone tries to shove things down my throat as truths. If they put it as a possibility that I might not have interpreted things correctly, I am open to their ideas. It makes a difference. I don't like abuse, and some people think that sort of harshness is the only way to get someone to wake up, but that's outright abuse, IMO. That's why it gets me to shut down, because I had a year of verbal abuse and manipulation and threats and blackmail, and it just becomes too much when I re-experience that sort of thing.

[SilentVoice]

Do yourself a favor.

Delete your online dating profile.

Take a step back and over analyze your reaction to this situation.

Act as if you are giving yourself advice - Do you seem a bit rational?

 

Yeah... and don't contact this guy again -- you are mad about something he didn't even do. Don't waste his time.

[Els]

Anyway, the problem is: I still don't have any feelings for this guy, or much of an attraction. It's not the same as the way I felt with my ex, that excitement is lacking. This is my second time dating, so I don't know if this is generally the norm early on, or what. I mean, my ex was so toxic and the thing we had together was so drama-filled that I am not even sure at this point what normal dating/relationship would look like. So maybe it's the fact that it's so drama-free that I feel that there is no spark? Because he's so consistent and always texts, I don't have to stress out over whether he wants me, and so I am taking him for granted? I don't know, I usually don't like being chased, and always end up doing the chasing, but this time it's different and I am not sure I like it.

 

I don't think the bolded is true. The first several months of our R were complete smooth sailing but the spark was definitely there.

 

I don't think this guy is the right one for you because it seems quite clear (to me) that you're not attracted to him. On the other hand, perhaps it may be time to work on your bad-boy fixation, because IMO that is going to preclude you from having a healthy LTR. Truly examine yourself and what it is you want from a R.

[NoMoreJerks]

Elswyth,

 

But I don't want a "bad boy". If I had wanted one, I wouldn't have been pissed off at his behavior, and then told him to back off when he treated me like my "ex" would've treated me (for example). I was/am interested in finding out more about him, but some of the stuff he did has alerted me to red flags. I want to be careful and safe, than sorry. It takes a while to sort out the false alarms from the real ones. The thing that really broke the camel's back for me was that he tried small talk again, and then hinted at coming over for sex, basically. I told him to back off. He respected that, and backed off. If he hadn't, and had acted like a bad boy on the sex issue especially (no way would I have even imagined standing up for myself like this with , for example, my 'ex'), I would've flushed him for good. I was almost pretty much consenting to rape by my 'ex', because of fear of the consequences of not having sex with him whenever he was in the mood for it.

[CrystalCastles]

I mulled things over as I caught up to what I missed since my last post.

 

I think IMO, it all boils down to 2 things.

 

1. You have too many expectations. You want to jump into an LTR right away, but that isn't happening. I think you really really really want to hurry up already and find the right guy but that isn't happening either.

 

2. You seem to want to find somebody. It's like some kind of goal you have. A plan. To go out into the world and find yourself that guy that you're supposed to be dating.

 

Don't date for a while. I think you need a break. You haven't given yourself enough time to recover from your crazy ex. You need some time for yourself, to work on yourself, do some hobbies, enjoy "me" time, and then date. Believe me, I'm in the same situation. The only thing you can do is to be patient.

 

Meanwhile, enjoy life, go out there and do fun stuff with your friends. Meet new people. Get your friends to introduce you to single guys they know. Have a night just you and your girlfriends. Paint your nails, watch a movie, whatever. Stop pressuring yourself to find someone. The key is to meet people, forge connections with the good ones and maybe something will develop.

 

Relax. Breathe. No need for drama. I think you're creating drama because you're bored. You need some excitement. I am that way too. I find that by doing fun things with my time- watching TV shows, reading books, doing math problems, painting, volunteering, etc- takes my mind off the idea that I'm bored and need a man to entertain me.

 

And of course there's always Loveshack. There are quite a few dramatic stories here.

[xxoo]

You seems to swing between overreacting (thinking he is a bad person who did a bad thing) to underreacting (giving him another chance).

 

Are you attracted to him at this point? There is certainly plenty of drama now.

[NoMoreJerks]

Don't date for a while. I think you need a break. You haven't given yourself enough time to recover from your crazy ex. You need some time for yourself, to work on yourself, do some hobbies, enjoy "me" time, and then date. Believe me, I'm in the same situation. The only thing you can do is to be patient.

 

Meanwhile, enjoy life, go out there and do fun stuff with your friends. Meet new people. Get your friends to introduce you to single guys they know. Have a night just you and your girlfriends. Paint your nails, watch a movie, whatever. Stop pressuring yourself to find someone. The key is to meet people, forge connections with the good ones and maybe something will develop.

 

Relax. Breathe. No need for drama. I think you're creating drama because you're bored. You need some excitement. I am that way too. I find that by doing fun things with my time- watching TV shows, reading books, doing math problems, painting, volunteering, etc- takes my mind off the idea that I'm bored and need a man to entertain me.

I definitely have enough stuff to do, not to get bored. I have done all of the above in the past 4 months, and continue to do so. In the past, when I was doing the back and forth with the "ex", I wanted to spend most of my time with him, and yes, at the time, I was bored and looking for a way to avoid things in my life that I needed to do. I've since been doing stuff on my own, and while in the past, sitting alone at home and watching a movie / TV used to depress me, now I actually enjoy it a lot. It definitely feels like "me" time, and I like spoiling myself, rewarding myself with doing stuff I enjoy or buying something I wanted to buy, etc. Overall, I can say I have been enjoying life lately, and there has been a new bunch of people who have come into my department, so I have been befriending them as well, and enlarging my social circle. It feels good. I definitely don't feel like I *NEED* someone in my life, though that would also be nice addition, if it happens. Anyway, back to work!

[clia]

What’s the rationale behind going out with him again? You seemed very set that he was a douchebag, disrespectful, etc. What changed?

 

I’m slightly changing my opinion on this guy based upon some of your more recent posts.

 

I felt like it was too casual, and I waited for him to make the move for a third date, but he didn't, after the 2nd date. I waited for 3-4 days, and then I thought I'd initiate since, why the hell not? I'm not into rigid "rules" and mind games. Anyway, he jumped at my suggestion, and I let him decide on the restaurant.

 

I hadn’t realized that you asked him out because he hadn’t asked you after your second date. Somehow I had pictured the scenario differently. Is it a dealbreaker? No, not necessarily but…I think you were right to feel that maybe there was at least a pink flag here. I don’t think it’s great that he was so lackadaisical about it. I think you do want to be careful about pursuing too much, because you seem to want a guy who pursues you. It is important to establish the dynamic that you want early in the relationship. If you switch it around and start pursuing, he is going to expect that. It is good that he picked the restaurant and paid.

 

And after the events of the weekend, he’s not impressing me a whole lot:

 

He actually tried to make some small talk before this happened. He said we should watch a movie some time, and then see what happens after (referring to sex).

 

He then suggested having a coffee again some time.

 

He says he wants to date you and likes you a lot…and then suggests watching a movie (at your house, I presume) or coffee for a fourth date? That’s the best he can do? I mean, the only reason you two are going out for dinner is because you upped the ante. Maybe it is a financial thing? I don’t know. I’m not suggesting you cancel on him or anything, but be cautious. Definitely don’t sleep with him again until you’ve had at least a few more dates with him, and it should be totally on him to ask for and plan date number 5. Avoid going to your house or his house – that is the easiest, most elegant way to avoid having sex without it being awkward. If you want to see his place, see it at the beginning of a date, not at the end of the date.

 

Also, I am only buying dinner because I should've paid last time (since I was the one who asked him out), but he ended up paying last time. It's a matter of principle. He knows his limits now, and he knows not everything flies. Well, let's hope he knows his limits. We'll find out soon enough. I am glad I told him to back off, though.

 

There is no “should’ve paid.” If you want a guy who is a gentleman, he is going to insist on paying on date 3, no matter who does the asking. You have to get it through your head that you deserve a man who wants to buy you dinner. You don’t owe him anything because he bought you dinner. You don’t owe him sex, and you are not obligated to buy him dinner in return. Yes, it is polite to reciprocate once you have been on several dates with a guy and I’m not suggesting you don’t do that. But – it’s not an obligation. It’s not a matter of principle. If you want a traditional gentleman, pursuer type man, you are going to have to change this mindset.

 

As far as his limits – well, you told him what you want. But you are still going to have to be the one to keep the boundaries clear. He is a man and he will try to have sex with you if he has the opportunity. That’s why you should not do any hang out type dates at your place or his unless you are ready for sex again. It can be really difficult to change the dynamic after you’ve had sex, so you are going to have to be the one to stick to your guns.

[SilentVoice]

... wait so now that there is drama.

You are going out with him again?

[NoMoreJerks]

He says he wants to date you and likes you a lot…and then suggests watching a movie (at your house, I presume) or coffee for a fourth date?

Yeah, well, that's what he suggested -- watching a movie together (at my place) (pretty much a key word for sex). I felt like that, combined with the fact that *I* had asked him to a dinner date , meant that his interests were limited to sex. This is what sent me into angry mode, especially after that incident over the weekend, because I felt like I was being taken for granted and that people telling me "sh*t happens" and to give him another chance, weren't getting the red flags. Even the second date, he had said , maybe we can go out for coffee, or drinks. OK, I get that, second date, it might still be too early for some to do dinner. But coffee date is still too casual and I only do coffee dates if I am meeting someone for the first time from online dating. It feels too awkward to sit there and it feels like an interview. After the second date, I hinted a few times at dinner and movie (I get that a lot of people don't like movie dates since you can't talk, but I thought if done in combination with dinner, it would be ok, since we'd be talking during dinner). Anyway, he completely ignored my hints. So I dropped it, but when he didn't ask me out for a third date, I thought he wasn't sure about my interest and was waiting for me to initiate a little bit. His coffee for a fourth date suggestion was because I said things were going too fast, so maybe he thought we could go back to square 1, coffee date. Which is fine. We're meeting up for coffee at 6:30pm today. I think this guy just doesn't have the money to take anyone out for dinner or movies or whatever. So he's lowering expectations and as soon as he got the chance to just spend time at home , and save money, he jumped on it. Plus, the sex is an obvious plus (or his main interest, possibly). This is why I said he was treating me like he already had me in the "bag", basically. He stopped putting in any effort, was even being passive aggressive (not texting me for a whole day, and then pretending to be so busy on a Sunday that he couldn't send me a single text). I certainly don't think he's what many people thought he was: "totally confused about what is going on." I think he knew I was upset at the fact that he blew me off, and just shrugged it off and didn't want to apologize, and then didn't text me to see if I would pursue him. When I didn't, he texted me a "good morning", to see if he would be able to reel me back in. When I responded, he thought he still had me, then suggested sex.

 

Anyway, I really don't think this is going anywhere, real fast. With all that happened and all the stuff he's said and done so far, it doesn't inspire A LOT of confidence (or ANY). Right now, I am really feeling that I should maybe cancel on the coffee date (and the dinner date for Sunday) and tell him I don't want to continue with this. I am getting cold feet and regretting trying to take it slow. I don't think I want to try. Makes me very uncomfortable and stressed.

 

As far as his limits – well, you told him what you want. But you are still going to have to be the one to keep the boundaries clear. He is a man and he will try to have sex with you if he has the opportunity. That’s why you should not do any hang out type dates at your place or his unless you are ready for sex again. It can be really difficult to change the dynamic after you’ve had sex, so you are going to have to be the one to stick to your guns.

Yeah, I know. Edited October 1, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[SilentVoice]

Also, doing the thing known as "splitting," where one perceives another person as either good or evil, with no reality in between.

 

 

 

Drama that the guy doesn't seem to have been a part of at all! Can you imagine if he read this thread?

I am pretty sure if he read this he wouldn't even know it was about him.

That how far fetched it is.

 

Anyway ... doesn't matter how you rationalize this.

This guy is barely interested.