No Spark? or Not Used to Drama-Free Dating?

[Imajerk17]

My point of all my posts NMJ, is that I think you really need to look at your decision-making process.

 

1. You had sex with this guy even though, from the way you described him, he didn't sound all that great. He was just a decent guy, or rather, he SEEMED LIKE a decent guy (you hardly know him actually). And whether you agree with me or not, having sex with someone exposes you to emotional and physical risk. (The risk of you getting pregnant is a lot greater than you think it is. The risk of getting pregnant *at any one time* might be under 1% (I said this before) but it multiplies over the number of times you have sex. In fact, most unplanned pregnancies--and there are a lot--occurred where protection was used.

 

2. You nit-picked this guy on little things that actually weren't an issue at all, like that text message.

 

3. Now it looks like he's pulling away. Why is he doing this? Well, he might not be so great--you might have thought he was a decent guy but you hardly know him. OR he actually might have lost interest because you had sex with him. Quality men lose interest this way too. (Women are the gate-keepers to sex. That is what we men expect of you at least one some level. I'm always viewed as a *ahem* jerk every time I say this, but I'm just the messenger. Ignore this at your own peril.)

 

I really think you need to do some soul-searching. Contrary to what other people say, I don't think glomming yourself to the first guy who SEEMS decent is the way to go, as the way this one is playing out is indicating. With the way you made decisions with this one--sleeping with him even though you didn't seem to be that into him AND you hardly knew him, you were basically setting this up to not turn out well. Have you considered therapy?

Edited September 28, 2013 by Imajerk17

[NoMoreJerks]

^ I don't think sleeping with him early was the real problem, as I stated in my previous post(s). If he had a problem with that, he really has some soul-searching to do, as he participated in the act. I didn't have sex with myself. It takes two to tango. I don't buy this BS that a guy will lose interest in a woman if she has sex with him too early. A guy who will do that, and judge a woman like that, is not a guy I want to be with. That's very sexist, and I am utterly invested in gender equality and don't accept being with a man who thinks women are sluts if they have sex too early, but men aren't because "that's how men are wired." That's a load of BS, an argument used by a lot of men to get away with a lot of sh*t.

 

Anyway, I don't mind having sex. It's just sex. I want to find out sooner rather than later if I am sexually compatible with a guy. The last guy I was with (my ex), he was utterly selfish in bed. That, in itself, is highly indicative of someone's personality, far more than what "interview-like" dates might be, actually. I do value sex, even if I might not enjoy it most of the time. I think it can be a good indicator of someone's personality -- whether the act itself (which might indicate selfishness/altruism/caring about the sexual partner's needs, etc.) or the implications of the act (his views of what my willingness to have sex early on might say about me, etc.). I'd rather find out sooner rather than later, if a guy is a misogynist. Some men will say things like my ex said them outright, about women being golddiggers, etc. Others will be more subtle and believe in sexist stuff like that "women who give it up too early are slutty" myth.

 

At any rate, it's no skin off my back. If he wants to back off, it's his prerogative, but I am not going to chase after him, or let him chase after me again. Gone are the days where I'd give a man more than 1 chance. I gave my ex 4. A man who is into me will not need more than 1 chance. Really. I might be messed up because of my experience with my ex (among other things), but there are certain truths that even *I* know of and abide by. In the end, I think I was much more respectful and caring about this guy than he was with me. I think it was utterly disrespectful of him to do what he did. He was taking me for granted. He shouldn't have said we can hang out tonight. Or, if he said it, and then decided to hang out with friends, it's rude to just blow me off. He could've done the next best thing (even if it might've made him uncomfortable) and asked me to join him and his friends. It's about respect, not even the desire to meet his friends. This is how I would've proceeded if I were met with such a situation. And I don't think I am even nitpicking here.

[thefooloftheyear]

No spark?

 

Check the ignition coil..

 

TFY

[TB Rhine]

I honestly don't think this guy was being disrespectful, or trying to manipulate you at all. He was just picking up what you were putting down. You can't try to distance yourself from a man, then accuse him of being manipulative or "playing games" when he responds in kind.

 

He may not have known, when he initially suggested the two of you doing something together, that he would end up hanging out with his friends that night. And after your, quite frankly, (intentionally?) lukewarm response to that initial offer, he could be forgiven, I think, for not being terribly enthused about making another one. You're acting like you could take or leave hanging out with him, and that's not the kinda thing that'll make any guy happy, though it may keep the weak ones chasing after you. *raises hand*

 

I think you should break up with the guy, because you're clearly not into him and are basically looking for any and every excuse to take umbrage at anything he says/does. Don't feel the need to frame him as another "abusive a--hole" in order to justify it, though.

[NoMoreJerks]

TB Rhine,

 

He knew I have deadlines, but despite that, I've been making an effort to see him regularly. I never turned down any offers to meet up and even initiated date #3. I don't think that up until now I gave him any signs of "distancing myself" or "wanting to keep things lukewarm." I only said we can do something light because I've been a bit sick (he knows that too), and because he has an all-day event and he will probably be tired?! I stated that in my mssg.

 

I don't think he was picking up on any hints, since there were none.

 

He may not have known, when he initially suggested the two of you doing something together, that he would end up hanging out with his friends that night.

The possibility was always there. His friends were going to be at the event. Sure, they might not have wanted to do anything after, but it's a 50-50 chance, and you don't leave a girl hanging like that, and then blow her off. That's disrespectful. I wouldn't do it to a guy, and I don't want it done to me.

 

And after your, quite frankly, (intentionally?) lukewarm response to that initial offer,

The initial offer was equally lukewarm/vague.... why should I be non-lukewarm when he is lukewarm? He wanted to hang out after 9pm. That's hardly an official date. It's more like a "light" thing where we just meet up and spend some time together without having to dress up too much or whatever. And he knew I was a bit sick (in girly pain) and that I was STILL making the effort to see him. Isn't that showing INTEREST rather than being lukewarm?!

 

I think you should break up with the guy

Break up? I don't consider that we were ever together. We only went out a few times, i guess. I don't owe him any explanation, certainly not after he blew me off (that's what it was) after leaving me hanging like that.

 

you're ... basically looking for any and every excuse to take umbrage at anything he says/does.

No I'm not. I admit when I am seeing too much in someone's behavior, and I admitted that I might be taking his previous wording of texts too seriously and finding something wrong with it when there might not be, but this goes a step further, and is about being wishy-washy and not respecting my time and blowing me off. I don't need to frame it as him being an abusive a**hole to justify not going out with him. I've stopped going out with guys before, who didn't interest me, without saying they were a**holes (the nerdy guy who kept talking about his job the whole time). I can accept that we didn't click and that's ok, I can walk away from that without thinking of him as an *sshole. But I do know one when I come across one and this guy was being a bit of a jerk, maybe not intentionally, but what does it say about me if I accept this sort of behavior? It only goes downhill from here. If he treats me with this sort of disrespect (and he knows it IS disrespectful; his tone is indicative of it) so early on, what's it going to look like a few months down the line? I don't even want to find out.

 

I think it's easy to blame me in this situation since I am obviously the one who is "messed up" and has baggage, but see the situation for what it is, independent of that bias. I think if anyone just came and posted that above scenario and asked for advice, most people would say that he was being wishy-washy and blowing the girl off, and that she should flush him because he wasn't sufficiently interested (for whatever reason) and was being disrespectful.

Edited September 28, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

DISCLAIMER: I don't mean any of this to sound judgemental. Just trying to help.

 

NMJ, after reading the TONS of text you've written on this, I can't help but feel you are the one who is more nervous about the relationship. I've done the same thing on these message boards. Written walls and walls of text and it's always a sign that I'm obsessing and freaked out (we can smell our own

 

The exchange you posted didn't seem the least bit weird or overly formal. The only thing that struck me as odd was your reaction to it and how you dissected something as simple as a text.

 

Your other posts also seem to be laced with tons of judgement on this guy as well as rather unusual speculations about the things that might be wrong with him. I really suggest you go back and re-read what you've posted because it seems like you're really projecting a lot on this dude (thinking he might frequent Thailand for hookers or secretly be a horder is a bit much).

 

Honestly, it's going to be hard for you to ever find a spark with anyone if you're putting them through this level of scrutiny. This guy is NOT your ex boyfriend. You've said he's amazingly different. Thus, expecting him to have the same issues as your ex and the other "jerks" you've dated is not useful and not fair to him.

 

I think you really need to take this a day at a time and make a conscious effort to stop judging this guy or trying to find out what's wrong with him. Give it a few weeks and try to force yourself to accept him as he is. If, after that time, you still don't feel anything then break up with him. If you can't stop judging all these things he does (like his job, formality, ect); then maybe you should end it now because it's not really nice to him to stick around when you feel this way about him. Either way, I'd also suggest talking to someone (a professional) about the lingering damage your EX did to you.

 

Once again, I hope none of this came off as super harsh. You've clearly been through a lot and have a lot of walls up. I think it's great you're trying to date a different kind of guy after getting burned by jerks. I think you just need to let yourself heal and stop subjecting this guy to such incredible scrutiny. I know I wouldn't want to be spoken about the way you speak of him.

Hi MalachiX,

 

It didn't come off as harsh at all. I have taken a lot of harsh words in the past year, from a lot of my friends, family, trying to wake me up, and I finally realized they were right, and am now open to all sorts of criticism without getting defensive about everything. But I think I still do know what being slighted feels like, when I experience it, and that I am not necessarily being super-sensitive about it because of the experience with my ex. I am not overcompensating for what my ex did. I always try to keep a balanced head, to check that my baggage about my ex doesn't get to my head. I always question whether I am overreacting, and I think that really does help keep me more or less balanced, and not completely jaded and seeing *ssholes everywhere. I used to see all men as *ssholes the first 3 months after I found out my ex had cheated on me. I am recovering, and I am trying to keep a level head. The Thailand thing is because I have seen a lot of men in recent months, who have said they go to Thailand. It's quite common, and I don't think I can tolerate being involved (in any capacity) with a man who has done that. I need to keep my sanity and that's a defensive measure for that. I will keep asking all men if they've been to Thailand. I do it in a roundabout way, without bringing any baggage into the question or whatever. I just want to know what I am getting into. I think it's only fair. That's what dating is about, right? we ask each other question sand want to find out about each other's lifestyle and if there are any blatant red flags. Well, that's one of my biggest red flags. I need to know that ASAP.

 

I may have judged this guy harshly at first, but keep in mind, I was trying to stop myself from falling into that trap, and really wanted to take the chance with him, even dismissed my own "scrutiny" of his habits (texting, the way he talks, etc.) and even his career , and wanted to continue dating him. But I think the last text he sent me is a deal-breaker for me. And I don't think I am being over-sensitive about it. I really think I deserve more respect than that. I always struggled with establishing boundaries, and I am slowly learning to establish some healthy boundaries. Sometimes I manage to and other times not, but when I feel really slighted like that, I think it's a sign that something is wrong. Keep in mind, even with my ex, I didn't like his behavior, and told my friends and complained about it to my friends (that's how they knew about it) , but I still stuck around. I don't want to do that again. I need to listen to my needs, to how I want to be treated. I don't think I am that demanding. I don't expect to be wined and dined, or treated like a princess. In fact, if anything, I have low self-esteem for the most part and don't think I deserve to be treated like a princess. But at the same time, I have learned not to accept being treated like dirt either, like a toy that can be discarded when you've got better things to do and then picked up again when you're bored. It's about recovering some of the self-esteem that I have not had for a long time now. How would I feel if I forced myself to accept what I think is really sh*tty treatment? You know how I felt after accepting that sort of abuse from my ex for a year. I don't think it's healthy for me to ignore the red flags that I always see. I've always ignored those red flags , I always saw them but ignored them with my ex, until it became too much for me to ignore, when I found pictures on his phone. I don't want this to reach that level. I need to listen to my needs. And I don't think these needs are misplaced as they used to be with my ex. It's not like my gut feeling is telling me to stick around despite abuse. It's telling me to drop this guy because he is blowing hot and cold and playing games. Even if it's to show me that he's not needy ,that he has a life of his own, it's GAMES. There's a natural way of doing that. I don't go out of my way to blow off a guy and tell him that I am instead going off with my friends, in order to show that I am not "needy." That's manipulative. I do think that what I am saying indicates that I have come a long way since my ex. I don't want to be treated in ways that I wouldn't treat others. At the end of the day, whether this guy is pure evil or a really good guy who made a mistake or wasn't really doing it intentionally, it doesn't matter, does it? What matters is that if I feel like I am not being treated according to my values, then we are not on the same wavelength, our values are too different, or whatever. Or maybe he's just an *sshole. I don't know. I don't much care, at this point. All I care about is protecting myself, and I took a step too far by taking a chance with this guy, I think.

[heartshaped]

Your real problem is you need to stop comparing every man to your ex.

 

You are in no shape or form ready to date. You don't even know what a healthy relationship is and you are desperately over analyzing everything a man does in case of ending up in an abusive situation again.

 

Also, having sex so early on rarely works out. Most people looking for any type of healthy, long term relationship at least wait until past date two. Anyone who sleeps with you that early is merely interested in sex and thinks you are down for it as well.

 

I think at this point you need to seek some counseling to help you recover from your abusive relationship with your ex and help you to set normal, healthy standards and boundaries. Without it, you're just gonna be stuck in this cycle you're in.

[NoMoreJerks]

Listen, I know for a fact that a man who really just wants to have sex with you, and can't get laid that often, will wait until date #20 if he has to, to get laid, and then disappear if he is not interested in anything serious (or do the hot/cold thing so as to maintain your interest and keep on sticking his d*ck into you). Has nothing to do with how soon you have sex with someone. The sooner it is, the better, in that case: it's better to know from date 2, that this guy was only after sex, than to invest so much time and emotions and money (yes, I pay my own way most of the time , for dates), into 20 dates or whatever. I've learned this the hard way.

 

A man who is respectful will respect your decisions no matter what they are: whether you want to have sex on the second date, or if you want to wait for a month or two. My sister's husband waited for 2 years to have sex with her, I kid you not. She did not want to have premarital sex (crazy if you ask me , but whatever works for others!). Clearly, it worked for her, and it shows how much into her he was, that he waited that long. I don't like using sex as a hostage though. It's not supposed to be a tool to manipulate or test someone by withholding it. If the moment is right, you feel like you want to do it, just do it. It doesn't mean the relationship has to work, and that if it doesn't, it's because you had sex with him (unless he's a douche in the first place and you're better off without him in that case). It may be the case that most men are judgmental of women who have sex so early, but that only makes them hypocrites and I don't want to end up with one of those men, even if I did have sex with him later on, and not from the second date. I don't want a person like that, who would've thought DIFFERENTLY of me if I had I had sex with him 2-3 dates or 10 dates before he "expected" me to put out. That's just retarded, ridiculous, and disgusting . All of a sudden I am a different person? Not as intelligent, not as trustworthy, not as girlfriend material as I would've been? That's just ridiculous. To attribute me having sex with men early on, to my "issues", is ridiculous and a cop-out. What needs to be addressed is why men feel the need to label women who put out early, sluts. So, if men are allowed to do that, who are they doing that with, and are those women with whom they are doing it (who are not girlfriend material), not going to end up getting married, ever, because they are supposedly no longer "girlfriend material" all of a sudden? These are ridiculous double standards, and I don't care if most men are hypocrites. I don't want to be with one and the sooner I find out that he is, the better. It IS a measure of his character, if he is judging me that way.

 

Sure, I am careful not to be abused again. I mean, who wouldn't be? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. It doesn't mean I am overanalyzing or am being oversensitive though. I have asked several of my friends about this scenario (the text) , and they have all said that it was disrespectful. And these are people who don't tell me what I want to hear. They've been yelling at me for the past year, for sticking around my ex. And several of them are happily married so I would say they know what they're talking about.

 

I've been to counselors before. They have never been helpful. I don't feel like getting input from a therapist is going to help me much. I don't feel the empathy from them, that I get from the advice given from my friends. At the same time, I can't bore my friends with the intricacies of my relationships or failed relationships, etc. so I tend not to really talk much about it at this point. Sometimes I do -- I ask for advice. And they readily give it, as in this scenario. It's helpful , because it really gives me a more balanced take on things, and prevents me from going too far out into oversensitivity land. I still maintain that I was not oversensitive in this case.

 

Heck, even the guy seems to have realized he was a bit of a jerk , and has since mssged me twice. He asked if I was making progress on my work. I responded to that (but not to the previous mssg where he turned down my offer to go out), and said, "a little, yeah." He replied by saying "that's a start , at least." Then said: "we're also making some progress at least. Had a little bit of a rocky start though." Anyway, I didn't reply to that second message. I don't really feel like doing a back and forth by text at this point, or responding to his texts. he turned me off , for good. Maybe he's still a good guy who didn't intend to offend , but the damage is done. I still dislike what he did . I don't want drama and I don't want apologies or whatever. If it's going to require apologies so early on, it's not going to work.

 

Oh well, it's good I kept my distance and didn't get emotionally vested in this. See, I am learning. And I definitely am not desperate for someone in my life . I could do without abuse, hot/cold & Jekyll/Hyde treatment.

Edited September 28, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[madlyinlove2013]

If that's what a spark is: I felt that way with a guy I went out on a date with once, before meeting this new guy. We spent 4 hours together having dinner (he chased me real hard at first), and another 3-4 hours talking together the first time that we met, and I felt like we would never run out of things to talk about, and the conversation was so much fun, and there wasn't any of that awkwardness. Sadly, he turned out to be a douchebag who disappeared on me for two months, and then reappeared. I ignored his texts after his reappearance, because he reminded me of my ex, and he was most likely playing with multiple girls all at once. That's the only time I can say I MIGHT HAVE experienced what you guys call a "spark." Didn't turn out well for me, even though he appeared to be equally intrigued/excited by our conversations. I felt our conversations were stimulating and intellectually on the same level, unlike the ones I used to have with my ex.

 

 

 

There is always more than 1 spark in a lifetime. I wouldn't say i had a spark with my boyfriend when we first met. When we first met we were both coming out of relationships and just wanted someone to hook up with. lol. That went to having a friendship. That's what i mean by not having a spark when we first met. But we definitely had an immediate friendship. We would talk all night long. Do you have a friendship with this person? Do you enjoy being around him? I can tell you right now that sparks can be deceiving.

 

I dont think that this guy is the right one for you because it doesn't seem like you really like him. Moreso that you are playing it safe, if that makes sense. Find someone that you can connect with on a friendship level. I learned that after being in an abusive marriage for 7 years a friend is what I needed.

[MalachiX]

Hi MalachiX,

 

It didn't come off as harsh at all. I have taken a lot of harsh words in the past year, from a lot of my friends, family, trying to wake me up, and I finally realized they were right, and am now open to all sorts of criticism without getting defensive about everything. But I think I still do know what being slighted feels like, when I experience it, and that I am not necessarily being super-sensitive about it because of the experience with my ex. I am not overcompensating for what my ex did. I always try to keep a balanced head, to check that my baggage about my ex doesn't get to my head. I always question whether I am overreacting, and I think that really does help keep me more or less balanced, and not completely jaded and seeing *ssholes everywhere. I used to see all men as *ssholes the first 3 months after I found out my ex had cheated on me. I am recovering, and I am trying to keep a level head. The Thailand thing is because I have seen a lot of men in recent months, who have said they go to Thailand. It's quite common, and I don't think I can tolerate being involved (in any capacity) with a man who has done that. I need to keep my sanity and that's a defensive measure for that. I will keep asking all men if they've been to Thailand. I do it in a roundabout way, without bringing any baggage into the question or whatever. I just want to know what I am getting into. I think it's only fair. That's what dating is about, right? we ask each other question sand want to find out about each other's lifestyle and if there are any blatant red flags. Well, that's one of my biggest red flags. I need to know that ASAP.

 

I may have judged this guy harshly at first, but keep in mind, I was trying to stop myself from falling into that trap, and really wanted to take the chance with him, even dismissed my own "scrutiny" of his habits (texting, the way he talks, etc.) and even his career , and wanted to continue dating him. But I think the last text he sent me is a deal-breaker for me. And I don't think I am being over-sensitive about it. I really think I deserve more respect than that. I always struggled with establishing boundaries, and I am slowly learning to establish some healthy boundaries. Sometimes I manage to and other times not, but when I feel really slighted like that, I think it's a sign that something is wrong. Keep in mind, even with my ex, I didn't like his behavior, and told my friends and complained about it to my friends (that's how they knew about it) , but I still stuck around. I don't want to do that again. I need to listen to my needs, to how I want to be treated. I don't think I am that demanding. I don't expect to be wined and dined, or treated like a princess. In fact, if anything, I have low self-esteem for the most part and don't think I deserve to be treated like a princess. But at the same time, I have learned not to accept being treated like dirt either, like a toy that can be discarded when you've got better things to do and then picked up again when you're bored. It's about recovering some of the self-esteem that I have not had for a long time now. How would I feel if I forced myself to accept what I think is really sh*tty treatment? You know how I felt after accepting that sort of abuse from my ex for a year. I don't think it's healthy for me to ignore the red flags that I always see. I've always ignored those red flags , I always saw them but ignored them with my ex, until it became too much for me to ignore, when I found pictures on his phone. I don't want this to reach that level. I need to listen to my needs. And I don't think these needs are misplaced as they used to be with my ex. It's not like my gut feeling is telling me to stick around despite abuse. It's telling me to drop this guy because he is blowing hot and cold and playing games. Even if it's to show me that he's not needy ,that he has a life of his own, it's GAMES. There's a natural way of doing that. I don't go out of my way to blow off a guy and tell him that I am instead going off with my friends, in order to show that I am not "needy." That's manipulative. I do think that what I am saying indicates that I have come a long way since my ex. I don't want to be treated in ways that I wouldn't treat others. At the end of the day, whether this guy is pure evil or a really good guy who made a mistake or wasn't really doing it intentionally, it doesn't matter, does it? What matters is that if I feel like I am not being treated according to my values, then we are not on the same wavelength, our values are too different, or whatever. Or maybe he's just an *sshole. I don't know. I don't much care, at this point. All I care about is protecting myself, and I took a step too far by taking a chance with this guy, I think.

 

Hey NMJ. All I'm saying is that when I read your posts, I see a LOT of pain in your past and I see someone who's trying very hard to save themselves future pain to an extent that it may be damaging the potential for an actual connection (once again, we can smell our own). I don't know if this guy was right for you. I do think that the way you've spoken about this guy and others on this thread perhaps indicates that you're looking at relationships in a way that isn't 100% conducive to success.

 

I actually started going through one of your posts and bolding every time you brought up your EX in relation to this guy. I gave up part way through because there were just too many instances.

 

A big part of intimacy is being able to trust another person. It's why dogs lay on their belly when they love you because they know they are exposing their most vunerable part to you as a gesture of trust and faith. It's hard to trust people after you've been burned. Believe me I know. I still have huge issues with all sorts of relationships (romantic and platonic) because of the abuse I experienced when I was in school. You're not going to be able to snap your fingers and make all your trust issues go away. What you can do is try to stop feeding your fears.

 

You say that counselors havn't helped. I don't know how many you've seen but I'm willing to guess it might be worth trying again. I think it also might be worth looking into medication (I've recently found this to be helpful with some of my issues). I'm guessing you probably believe your challenges to be entirely based on your circumstances (abusive ex), so you don't think that medication would help but the interesting thing about abuse or any other psychological issue is that it has the ability to alter our brain chemistry so that medication is sometimes the only thing that can start the healing process (not saying it's a cure-all mind you or would definately work in your case).

 

None of what you are experiencing is your fault and it doesn't make you less of a person to be having these challenges. It just seems like, unless you take the time to heal, you're not going to be able to have a meaningful relationship even if you meet the perfect guy who you have an incredible spark with.

[MalachiX]

3. Now it looks like he's pulling away. Why is he doing this? Well, he might not be so great--you might have thought he was a decent guy but you hardly know him. OR he actually might have lost interest because you had sex with him. Quality men lose interest this way too. (Women are the gate-keepers to sex. That is what we men expect of you at least one some level. I'm always viewed as a *ahem* jerk every time I say this, but I'm just the messenger. Ignore this at your own peril.)

 

I'm gonna sound harsh again and I apologize.

 

I'm SOOOOOOOOOOOO sick of this attitude from both men and women. It takes two to tango. Period. Any guy who decides to judge a woman for having sex with him too soon (sex her particapated in); is a complete and utter ******* who isn't worth the time of day.

 

I'm a nice guy and a "quality man" (though I hate that term just as I hate "quality woman"). I've never judged a woman for when she slept with me and I've never held early sex against someone. Sex isn't something that one person "gives up" to the other. It's something we do because a.) we find each other attractive, b.) we have urges that need to be satisfied, and (if you're lucky) c.) it's an expression of deeper feelings for one another.

 

Can we please stop perpetuating this puritanical BS about when it's appropriate to have sex. It's appropriate whenever both parties feel ready. Period. Yes a lot of men will judge a woman for early sex but no "quality man" ever would. Only *******s.

[clia]

I'm struggling to understand what you think this guy did wrong tonight. From your previous posts, you did not have plans with him and knew he had another event until 9. You then offered to get together after his event and told him to text you if he was up for it. He responded that he was just going to continue hanging with his friends tonight.

 

So why are you upset with him? You didn't have plans! I find it completely understandable that he would just remain with his friends after the event. I also can completely understand him not wanting to invite you to meet all his friends after only three dates. Why are you expecting him to drop everything for you?

 

In other words, I think you are completely overreacting. He's responsive and in contact with you. I see no indication at all that he is pulling away. Just my opinion.

[NoMoreJerks]

I'm struggling to understand what you think this guy did wrong tonight. From your previous posts, you did not have plans with him and knew he had another event until 9. You then offered to get together after his event and told him to text you if he was up for it. He responded that he was just going to continue hanging with his friends tonight.

That's not the timeline.

 

He said yesterday and today that we can hang out tomorrow after 9. I said, that sounds good and to text me when he's done. 3 hours after I said that today (I said it yesterday too), he texts me and says that he'd love to, but he has decided he's gonna go with his friends. We didn't have concrete plans about where to go, but that's because he is literally like, across the street from me (at that event), and I could just walk there and meet him when he's done. I told him to text me when he's done so we can meet up. I didn't "offer" to get together. I took up his offer. Then he decided he had changed his mind. Wishy washy much?

 

He knows he's made a mistake and now wants reassurance I'm not upset. He keeps texting me.

[Imajerk17]

I'm struggling to understand what you think this guy did wrong tonight. From your previous posts, you did not have plans with him and knew he had another event until 9. You then offered to get together after his event and told him to text you if he was up for it. He responded that he was just going to continue hanging with his friends tonight.

 

So why are you upset with him? You didn't have plans! I find it completely understandable that he would just remain with his friends after the event. I also can completely understand him not wanting to invite you to meet all his friends after only three dates. Why are you expecting him to drop everything for you?

 

In other words, I think you are completely overreacting. He's responsive and in contact with you. I see no indication at all that he is pulling away. Just my opinion.

 

 

I actually agree with you come to think about it. But keep in mind that they already had sex. So somewhere in the minds of the OP and her friends, she and this guy are much further along to couplehood than they really are. He altering plans for a third date to hang out with his friends wouldn't be that big a deal otherwise.

 

Anyway this kind of overreacting is prone to occur when sex is brought into the equation so soon, no matter how much the OP insists it's not a factor.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Imajerk17

[clia]

This is the post I was referring to. You said for him to text you if he is up for something after the event. He wasn't up for something and let you know. That's why I'm confused.

 

Maybe you're right, and I am seeing too much in some words written in a text message. Personal interactions are kinda similar, too, though. But I got a text message earlier, and it was kinda similar, and I decided to not really think about it too much and just take it for what it was. When I did that, it didn't seem to bother me all that much after all. I think sometimes people might not know what to say, but they don't want to leave a text unanswered and that makes them say something awkward or whatever. Anyway, whatever it is, I've decided not to pay too much attention to it. Maybe I am being harsh on this guy. I didn't want to see him yesterday, because I was in some pain and also I had seen him the day before, and I want to keep a more of a dating atmosphere and not fast-forward to "hanging out" all the time, as I used to do with my ex. I feel like he wanted to hang out with me yesterday though and was sorta disappointed, and now I am worried I am giving off signs of disinterest... I am also very busy with a deadline coming up, and I am incredibly stressed,and feel guilty if I take some time off to do something unrelated to my work, and even more so if it involves going out of the house and going somewhere with him, etc. , so I feel like I want to take a week off seeing him but I am worried he might take that as a sign of disinterest or emotional unavailability. He asked me what my plans were for today -- he has an event til 9pm, but I told him I was up for something "light" if he wasn't too tired when he was done. I told him to text me whenever he finishes, if he is up for something. He hasn't responded. But we'll see. *shrug*

[NoMoreJerks]

So why are you upset with him? You didn't have plans!

He had suggested that we get together. That's not a concrete plan as in a date, but if you make the suggestion to the girl you're seeing, I would assume she is booking off that time slot , if she's ok with it and tells you to text her when you are done. Or is she supposed to be at your beck and call??! I wasn't expecting a full-on formal date, just a casual get-together, which is why I didn't expect concrete plans and said we can do something "light."

 

I find it completely understandable that he would just remain with his friends after the event.

Sure. But he knew his friends were going to be there and that there were chances they might want to hang out. Why even suggest going out with me? I understood that he had an event and wouldn't have bothered him at all , if he hadn't suggested it. It's a two-day event and I was assuming we wouldn't be able to hang out for the weekend (though I was going to ask him to go dancing with me on sunday after he said he wanted to hang out with me today, and I assumed he could therefore do something after the event on sunday as well).

 

I also can completely understand him not wanting to invite you to meet all his friends after only three dates. Why are you expecting him to drop everything for you?

I'm not expecting him to drop everything for me. I'm expecting him to be reliable and to respect his word. Don't put ideas in my head (even if they're not plans) and then say you have better things to do. That's how it really reads: I'd love to go out with you but I've got better things to do even though I had said I wanted to go out with you. OK, be my guest, hang out all you want with your friends, if they are preferable to me, that you're willing to blow me off like that? What's the problem with me meeting his friends? Is he that embarrassed about me? I don't mind if my friends saw him? So what, if his friends know that he's dating someone, and things didn't work out? Is he afraid of them thinking he's some loser? It's either that, or he's compartmentalizing like my ex. I'm not saying go out of your way to introduce me to your friends, but if that's the best middle ground considering the situation, then why not?!? Why such an aversion to the idea?

[NoMoreJerks]

This is the post I was referring to. You said for him to text you if he is up for something after the event. He wasn't up for something and let you know. That's why I'm confused.

He had told me in person on Wednesday, and by another text on Thursday, and another in the morning today, that we could do something after 9pm. Then asked me what my plans were. I said I was up for something light, because I was in a bit of pain, and also, because I assumed he would be too tired (for anything big). He then apparently decided he didn't want that? After having told me we could hang out and having led me on by asking what my plans were.

 

Also, I didn't write in the text "if you are up for it." I assumed he was up for it since he had SUGGESTED IT. I just said, text me when you are done, I am up for something "light" since I'm a bit sick and you're probably tired. He responded to that text by saying that he'd love to but prefers his friends. OK? It's like he's pushing back, because he felt like I was invading his space or something. Wait, what? HE suggested hanging out. I was just taking up his suggestion (despite being busy and tired and sick -- but not wanting to give off the vibe I wasn't interested in seeing him). This is why I said he reminds me of the push-pull dynamic with my ex.

Edited September 29, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

I actually agree with you come to think about it. But keep in mind that they already had sex. So somewhere in the minds of the OP and her friends, she and this guy are much further along to couplehood than they really are. He altering plans for a third date to hang out with his friends wouldn't be that big a deal otherwise.

 

Anyway this kind of overreacting is prone to occur when sex is brought into the equation so soon, no matter how much the OP insists it's not a factor.

Nope. The overwhelming majority of my friends do not know I've had sex with him, actually. Also, I am not assuming couplehood. In fact, I felt like he was invading my space too much by texting me throughout the day, to begin with. Far from assuming couplehood. Our third date was on Thursday, and I had asked him out. This would've been the "fourth date", though a casual one at that. He never had those plans to hang out with his friends in the first place. Those came along AFTER he told me he wanted to see me (at which point, he should've assumed I booked off that time slot and arranged my schedule accordingly). I can understand that something equally important came along. This is why I would've accepted a middle-ground, asking me to come along. I don't really care to get to know his friends, at this point, but I am just offended that he completely ditched me after leading me on in that manner, as soon as something "better" came along.

[NoMoreJerks]

Anyway. I see no point in really discussing this guy any further. I am offended by the way he ditched me, and that's that. I think anyone with an ounce of self-respect would feel the same way, knowing the details and correct timeline. I really liked him, but it's a shame he didn't live up to my (very low) standards. I'm not even a ball-buster and didn't even expect him not to go out with his friends in order to see me. I would've felt very bad about pressuring him to do that. Oh well. Guess I was too nice and being too nice gets you trampled on real fast. I see no need to continue with someone who doesn't have the basic respect that I have for even strangers that I make promises to or make an arrangement with.

Edited September 29, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

I was going to ask how to let this guy down in case he still pursues me (as he kept messaging me last night) but it looks like he got the hint yesterday, by my very slow and short responses to his "small talk" via text (which I suspect he was sending, to see if I had put up with his utter disrespect). He did not message me this morning. Actually, come to think of it, I think he would also not have messaged me yesterday morning -- I messaged him, saying good morning. I think he had already lost interest before telling me he preferred to spend time with his friends. His preference to spend time with his friends was a sign of his disinterest, rather than the cause of his ultimate disinterest because of how I might have reacted to it (no reaction on my part via text, just slow to respond and very abrupt replies to his other texts). I've seen this far too often. Men who do not pursue you, because they're not interested, and/or want you to pursue THEM because they think they're the best thing since sliced bread. I am done pursuing anyone who is not sufficiently interested in me, or is a jerk with me. In the past, I would've chased after the guy that I didn't want, just because he rejected me lol... Crazy, if you ask me. Goes to show what a long way I've come. And maybe the fact that I even gave this guy a chance indicates that he was the (bad) type I am still (instinctively) attracted to. Just because a guy seems very shy/nerdy does not mean he's a good and respectful person. I should know this by now. My ex was the biggest introvert ever, he was still an abusive douche and a cheater. Good riddance to this new guy, though. Glad I found out sooner rather than later.

Edited September 29, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[Ajax]

OP, my impression from the course of this thread is that you tend to only want what you don't/can't have. You start out feeling disinterested in this man because you felt no spark... no drama. He appeared interested in you at the beginning, and thus you weren't interested in him. It was too easy.

 

So you found a way to manufacture drama, attributing motives to him and trying to analyze his behavior... behavior that you yourself may have elicited. And when he draws back, you get upset. Upset at a man who you yourself were not interested in. Drama. Self created drama.

 

I think you need to let this guy go and leave him alone. Figure out what's going on in your own head before involving someone else.

[NoMoreJerks]

OP, my impression from the course of this thread is that you tend to only want what you don't/can't have. You start out feeling disinterested in this man because you felt no spark... no drama. He appeared interested in you at the beginning, and thus you weren't interested in him. It was too easy.

 

So you found a way to manufacture drama, attributing motives to him and trying to analyze his behavior... behavior that you yourself may have elicited. And when he draws back, you get upset. Upset at a man who you yourself were not interested in. Drama. Self created drama.

 

I think you need to let this guy go and leave him alone. Figure out what's going on in your own head before involving someone else.

Please read the entire thread before passing judgment. There was no drama on my part. Sure, I analyze people's behavior. I analyze my behavior too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We all analyze behavior. It's normal. That's how we know whether or not something is within our boundaries or trespasses it. There is an element of assumption in all our analyses of people's behavior, and sometimes we misinterpret, but most of the time, I think we are correct in our interpretations.

 

I am not upset in the least that this guy is no longer interested in me. What part of "I AM NOT INTERESTED IN HIM ANYMORE AND DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM" makes you think I now want what I can't have?? I am completely uninsterested in him at this point. In fact, absolutely turned off by him and disgusted by his behavior. Completely disrespectful. Men who disrespect women are not people I am interested in interacting with, or forming any sort of relationship with, be it romantic or friendly. Forget it. I had one too many of those disrespectful, misogynistic people in my life. If he thinks he will get away with disrespecting me and continue going out with me, he has such a low , mistaken view of women, as willing to put up with that sort of BS. Well, some (or many) women might put up with it, but I am not that kind of yes-woman anymore. I don't need to settle for the next guy who appears , just because I might be interested in dating someone and ultimately having a relationship with someone. I want a healthy relationship, not one where there are mind games. I will NOT engage in his mind games and mindf*ckery. I do NOT care if he chases after me or doesn't. I have ZERO expectations at this point. In fact, I HOPE he leaves me alone. I am just analyzing how I even got sucked into this, and THOUGHT he was a nice guy. Clearly, I jumped into it head-first without reminding myself not to make assumptions about someone's character so fast.

 

I have asked a dozen friends by now, about this behavior and what they thought of it (both men and women, mostly men BTW). THey all said it was stupid and disrespectful and when I told them I felt disrespected they told me I had every right to feel that way. They did say that it might be a one-off, to give him another chance, but I refuse to do so. My tolerance for bullsh*t is THAT low at this point. I don't ever want to see this guy again. One strike and men are out, at this point, especially with something as big as this. You don't tell a woman that you'll go out with her that evening and then tell her you'd rather hang out with your friends. That's just utterly disrespectful. I fail to see why you think there is nothing disrespectful about being ditched in this manner. I see threads like this day in day out on this forum, and people are advised to flush the men/women who do this sort of thing, because they're either not interested or douches. There is absolutely NOTHING in my behavior that made him think I was disinterested. I went out of my way to show interest and that I wanted to continue seeing him. His behavior is not the result of anything I did. Do not f*ck with my head and turn everything into something that *I* did. Just because I have ex baggage does NOT mean everything anyone does is MY fault.

Edited September 29, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[NoMoreJerks]

My friend (who has an office next to the location of that event) told me today that things apparently "got out of hand" (her exact words) at the event yesterday, because outside, there were a lot of graduate students who were drunk at a party in the afternoon/evening. That was possibly too exciting for him to leave. A lot of drunk women, yeah, why even bother with NoMoreJerks when I can have a dozen drunk women and hit on them and maybe take one of them home? NoMoreJerks will still be around, waiting for me to text her the following morning, right? Because I am that great and she's that desperate and plus, we had sex and women get attached when they have sex, so I've bagged that b*tch already! Yeah, right. Dream on, buddy. Overreacting? I don't think so! You don't throw pearls before swine, do you?

[Ajax]

Please read the entire thread before passing judgment.

 

While I apologize if I sounded judgmental, I did read your entire thread and I stand by my assessment. This fellow may well be a jerk, but you're still analyzing and reacting to what he's done. You're still involved in drama.

 

And while he's certainly not blameless (I never said he was) you played a part in this. We should all be reflective and strive to better ourselves through awareness of our own tendencies and behaviors. You show that you have an ability to be self reflective, but we all have blind spots that take others to point out. By your reaction it seems I may have hit a nerve.

 

I would ask that you simply reflect on what I've suggested and consider whether there may be some truth to it. If I'm completely off base then great! Regardless, as my analysis seems unwelcome, I'll be moving along.

 

Good luck!

[NoMoreJerks]

you played a part in this.

what part is THAT? :confused: the fact that I stated here that I wasn't SURE about dating, or this guy so far? That's the part I played ? Or what? Because I missed what "part" I played in him ditching me like that, in order to hang out with and ogle (if not worse) drunk graduate students (women for the most part at these events).