Some people can't just make up their minds

[irc333]

Met a woman last weekend at an event, and she had taken a liking to me pretty much off the bat...it's not often that happens because it was so effortless to get her phone # when she had to leave. She's single, never married and has no kids....middle 30's. So nothing is tying her down. She's a private school teacher.

 

I called her a couple of days later and we talked on the phone a bit and I asked her out for Saturday. She said that would be good, but plans would be tentative and wanted to see what was going on that day as she would be mentoring a child that day (she does volunteer work). But she seemed pretty much into it, and even she brought up ideas of what she would like to do. She mentioned something about a farmer's market we could attend in the downtown area.

 

Anyhow I call her a couple of more days, we talk some, and wanted to designate a spot, I recall her saying she likes to drink coffee and there's a nice coffee shop in the area that I was aware of that she may enjoy. She said she wasn't much for drinking coffee inthe evenings and that she was more of a morning coffee drinker. I figured this was something we could do after we had dinner as we would be strolling around in the downtown area.

 

She said, "Well, I'm not sure now, as I am mentoring a child that day so I'll have to see what my schedule is like that day."

 

I said, "Oh okay, when do you get done mentoring the child?" She stated, "After, 2 pm" and I mentioned, "Well, I was wanting to get together that Sat. night"

 

I was thinking, obviously she won't be mentoring the child all day and through Sat. night right?

 

Then she gets kind of defensive and says, "Well, sometimes during the week I don't have much time to catch up on things I need to get caught up on during the work week that I have to get it all done during the weekend."

 

She was basically back peddling or couldn't make up her mind about getting together and said she would "let me know"

 

The conversation turned into an awkward silence after all that and I said, I would talk to her later and just let the ball in her court.

 

But my pet peeves are if you don't have time for me, then I don't have time for you. Basically, I can't stand people that only spend time with you when it's convenient to THEM!.

[Philosoraptor]

At some point during the conversation she lost interest and tried to let you down easy.

[Skyraider829]

I don't see the reason why anyone would want to spend time with someone who is frequently indecisive. If you can't make a decision, you can't move forward - with anything.

 

You're frustrated because she's one-sided. I can't blame you there. Dates ought to be mutual events. Not because its convenient for one person.

[lionoftheforum]

You seem to be pressing the meeting too much. Really, back off. She was clear that she wasn’t fully invested in meeting. So be it. Respect her signals, don’t challenge them, including in your own mind. That’s a huge turn off.

 

As a person with structure, direction, and confidence in my (researched or thought about) decisions, I have a hard time with indecisive and noncommittal people. Unfortunately, these attitudes are common because they involve choices and investment… which most people don’t like unless they have a sense it’s a sure thing. Sure things rarely happen.

[Imajerk17]

Well, the girl didn't make it easy for you, but you didn't handle her resistance all that well. A little humor would have gone a long way:

 

Her: "I have stuff to catch on this weekend!"

 

You: [laughs] "We haven't even gone out but you're already playing hard to get!"

 

You: "Would Sunday be better for ya?"

 

Her: "Haha naw sorry I gotta wash my hair/visit my sick aunt/take my cat to her therapy session..."

 

You: "OK that's cool. Call me when you are free"

 

 

I guess overall it seems that you overreact or get too defensive towards women and their (sometimes strange to us) behavior. I think if you learned to have more fun with women you would have better results. Not trying to nitpick at you irc, but I think you would have better results if you were to think of better ways you could handle situations with women, instead of expecting things to be "fair", which, going by your threads, is what I think you do.

 

Meanwhile, you and this girl talked a lot during the Meetup. You supposedly found out about mutual hobbies right? Surely you can suggest something better than coffee for the first date.

 

EDIT: I reread your OP. I think that on your first phone call, you could have come up with an alternate date when she said Saturday might not be good. Such as Sunday.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Mr.Mango]

I'm with Imajerk17 on this one. When dealing with girls, things are easier when you keep it light. The minute you let her bum you out, even slightly, they generally don't feel like dealing with you. And girls can pick up on this extremely well!

 

The only success I've had when dealing with indecisive people is when I've playfully flipped the situation on them. Keyword being playful. You can't exactly make people do what you want, but you can make them see the situation differently which would cause them to make more agreeable decisions.

 

It's hard to explain, but an example will make it easier. I was dating this girl for a short while and was supposed to go to a party with her. She called about 2 hours before the party:

 

Her: "I'm not feeling it, I think I want to stay in."

Me: "Are you sure? I'm going to go either way."

Her: "Yeah...I'm a little tired."

Me: "Well I see how being driven around by me, eating, drinking and having an overall good time could be exhausting. But I'll do my best to explain that to our friends when I'm there."

Her: "Wait...I'll go get ready."

 

I didn't really tell her to go, just made her see the situation differently. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, nothing lost either way. If a girl puts up a wall, don't push, just go around it (if possible).

[nescafe1982]

Yeah, sounds like you pushed too hard. That puts me off my lunch too. Just more than one phone call before the date would be enough for me to be wondering why you're trying so hard.

 

For the record, I can definitely remember one guy I was talking to in my dating days who, sort of tired of my "hard to get" thing, said a final "well, just let me know when you'd like to get together, whenever you're free!" You know... like he was pointedly putting the ball in my court. It signaled to me that I needed to get real about going out with him, that he wasn't a pushover, etc. I scheduled a date that weekend.

 

But a lot of women will avoid the pushy guy. It's a self-preservation instinct. When a dude pushes too hard too fast, we think "whoa, what's this guy's hurry?"

[soccerrprp]

I apologize, but irc333, I am so jealous of you!

 

It seems like you are getting dates all the time! How do you do it?

 

Anyway, sounds like she wasn't really interested in meeting up.

[lionoftheforum]

I'm with Imajerk17 on this one. When dealing with girls, things are easier when you keep it light. The minute you let her bum you out, even slightly, they generally don't feel like dealing with you. And girls can pick up on this extremely well!

 

 

 

The only success I've had when dealing with indecisive people is when I've playfully flipped the situation on them. Keyword being playful. You can't exactly make people do what you want, but you can make them see the situation differently which would cause them to make more agreeable decisions.

 

 

 

It's hard to explain, but an example will make it easier. I was dating this girl for a short while and was supposed to go to a party with her. She called about 2 hours before the party:

 

 

 

Her: "I'm not feeling it, I think I want to stay in."

 

Me: "Are you sure? I'm going to go either way."

 

Her: "Yeah...I'm a little tired."

 

Me: "Well I see how being driven around by me, eating, drinking and having an overall good time could be exhausting. But I'll do my best to explain that to our friends when I'm there."

 

Her: "Wait...I'll go get ready."

 

 

 

I didn't really tell her to go, just made her see the situation differently. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, nothing lost either way. If a girl puts up a wall, don't push, just go around it (if possible).

 

.

 

Sage advice... Right out of a game manual. Works like a charm.

 

However, I think the OP killed this last one. do ^^^ this next time.

[xxoo]

You had a spark, and you smothered it.

[carhill]

Kudos to you for talking with her in person and on the phone.

 

My only suggestion would, if faced with a person who suggests something in the future, to approach it as a positive suggestion and with some humor. I could have had some fun with the farmer's market suggestion. Even if nothing came of it, the interactions teach lessons.

 

Lastly, private school teachers, especially of that age and not ever married, can be hard nuts to crack so no worries. Onward.

[sickpuppy]

Met a woman last weekend at an event, and she had taken a liking to me pretty much off the bat...it's not often that happens because it was so effortless to get her phone # when she had to leave. She's single, never married and has no kids....middle 30's. So nothing is tying her down. She's a private school teacher.

 

I called her a couple of days later and we talked on the phone a bit and I asked her out for Saturday. She said that would be good, but plans would be tentative and wanted to see what was going on that day as she would be mentoring a child that day (she does volunteer work). But she seemed pretty much into it, and even she brought up ideas of what she would like to do. She mentioned something about a farmer's market we could attend in the downtown area.

 

Anyhow I call her a couple of more days, we talk some, and wanted to designate a spot, I recall her saying she likes to drink coffee and there's a nice coffee shop in the area that I was aware of that she may enjoy. She said she wasn't much for drinking coffee inthe evenings and that she was more of a morning coffee drinker. I figured this was something we could do after we had dinner as we would be strolling around in the downtown area.

 

She said, "Well, I'm not sure now, as I am mentoring a child that day so I'll have to see what my schedule is like that day."

 

I said, "Oh okay, when do you get done mentoring the child?" She stated, "After, 2 pm" and I mentioned, "Well, I was wanting to get together that Sat. night"

 

I was thinking, obviously she won't be mentoring the child all day and through Sat. night right?

 

Then she gets kind of defensive and says, "Well, sometimes during the week I don't have much time to catch up on things I need to get caught up on during the work week that I have to get it all done during the weekend."

 

She was basically back peddling or couldn't make up her mind about getting together and said she would "let me know"

 

The conversation turned into an awkward silence after all that and I said, I would talk to her later and just let the ball in her court.

 

But my pet peeves are if you don't have time for me, then I don't have time for you. Basically, I can't stand people that only spend time with you when it's convenient to THEM!.

 

Some of the other replies you got on this thread are good ideas. I don't get it though either..You either don't try hard enough and look like you aren't really interested or try too hard and pressure people. It's like you have to offer and let them decide when they're ready while you keep looking.

 

I hear you though. People expect you to make your plans around their timetables. lol It's hilarious.

[soccerrprp]

Lastly, private school teachers, especially of that age and not ever married, can be hard nuts to crack so no worries. Onward.

 

Huh? Why is this?

[carhill]

Huh? Why is this?

They tend to be very focused and ordered in general and, combined with many years of being single, set in their ways. I've seen few exceptions to this over the decades, amongst both those lay teachers who taught me privately as well as with female friends who were/are lay teachers and remained unmarried for many years. The single most prevalent commonality was 'schedule'. Everything was on a schedule and it was pretty inflexible, even amongst friends. Is everyone that way? Nope, but the OP related enough blocks of information for me to note the commonalities from experience.

[Mrlonelyone]

They tend to be very focused and ordered in general and, combined with many years of being single, set in their ways. I've seen few exceptions to this over the decades, amongst both those lay teachers who taught me privately as well as with female friends who were/are lay teachers and remained unmarried for many years. The single most prevalent commonality was 'schedule'. Everything was on a schedule and it was pretty inflexible, even amongst friends. Is everyone that way? Nope, but the OP related enough blocks of information for me to note the commonalities from experience.

 

 

 

I second Carhill's emotion on this one. Academic types at any level tend to be very focused on their career goals. If it's educating K-12 then their whole life revolves around that higher calling. If it's researching some area of knowledge and teaching at the college level... the same.

 

 

The end result is that these, long single adults, engage in a more mature form of hook up culture. No strings, no promises, call me when you have time, hooking up and moving on with life. Then if they really feel a connection they go for something more permanent. It has to be a really powerful connection though.

 

 

These are people who if they have gne through college and graduate school have likely walked away from one or more relatively good relationships because they graduated, or wanted to study abroad, or found a job in another city. One gets used to not being able to put down roots.

 

 

When do these people change?

 

 

If they do it's when they get tenure of some kind somewhere. They know where they will be for the next 20-30 years. Then they allow themselves to get into a serious relationship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bottom line is that there is nothing the OP could have done. She sensed by your insistence on seeing her with a set schedule that you are looking for a deeper commitment than she is willing to give. Plenty of women are just as reluctant to commit as men are these days, especially ones with a career as consuming as education. .

[FitChick]

At least irc333 makes an effort. I am sure he is learning along the way, unlike a lot of whiners on here. Practice makes perfect!

[irc333]

I guess overall it seems that you overreact or get too defensive towards women and their (sometimes strange to us) behavior. I think if you learned to have more fun with women you would have better results. Not trying to nitpick at you irc, but I think you would have better results if you were to think of better ways you could handle situations with women, instead of expecting things to be "fair", which, going by your threads, is what I think you do.

 

I have to say, you are right, I may have been a bit reactionary (due to previous experiences with not only women, but with the unreliability of people in general.

 

Even though she was indecisive. I wasn't in a particular chipper mood and my tone, though not pissed off, was a bit "abrupt" at the close of our conversation...so I didn't have a good poker face for the moment, so I would imagine she picked up on that.

 

But being able to handle a person's indecisiveness can be challenging depending on the mood I'm in. My thoughts of, "Oh, here we go again...." flooded into my mind and my attitude at the moment.

 

But I figured I had done something different considering I was garnering her interest rather easily during our night when we paired up for the board game, and I rolled a little too far with it.

 

I thought about following-up later apologizing for my reaction, but I'm not sure if the damage is irreparable.

 

I was talking to a friend of mine asking him if I should follow-up later in the week with the phone call, but he said, "Just expect to get the voicemail" and in the future, always be prepared to walk away in case situations like this happen."

[irc333]

They tend to be very focused and ordered in general and, combined with many years of being single, set in their ways. I've seen few exceptions to this over the decades, amongst both those lay teachers who taught me privately as well as with female friends who were/are lay teachers and remained unmarried for many years. The single most prevalent commonality was 'schedule'. Everything was on a schedule and it was pretty inflexible, even amongst friends. Is everyone that way? Nope, but the OP related enough blocks of information for me to note the commonalities from experience.

 

Yes, she's an "International Studies' teacher, teaching internationals in the area. Korean college students to be specific. She's studied in Lebanon/ Middle-East and was even engaged to a Lebanese when she was abroad some time ago while interning. She is fluent in 2 other languages as well. She was even engaged to a Lebanese man overseas, but it didn't work out because there was no compromise on who would be giving up what in order to live together.

 

Yes, I have noticed those that are single and focused on academics are goal oriented. She did mention that since she was a +1 to the event, she's never made any real friends in the area, just stays to herself, which I found odd for as long as she's lived here. Most of her friends have left the area and she hasn't really acquired new ones and probably has no real motivation to do so or at least isn't used to it.

 

She seems to be the type that will have difficulty going out and making NEW friends altogether and her ability to "break routine" and make time for someone new would indeed be a sacrifice for her.

 

I recall a 45 year old attractive blonde woman in my area. The ONLY single person of her family, reason I say this is because every single sibling and relative has gotten married and had children and grand children, plus she has become a great aunt even.

 

She was so used to her routine outings with friends and used to her own living space, that while she was engaged, her new fiance was stopping by the house a little too much and he was expecting her to give up a routine Sat. night out with her trail riding friends at the local TGI Fridays...to spend time with him, but even when he suggested joining her circle of friends...she wasn't comfortable with it. So due to her being so accustomed to being single and for so long, she called off the engagement. She said she's trying to improve upon it, so she does recognize she has a social problem and at least attempting to make an effort.

 

But, it seems though women these days tend to need men less or their desire to be with them not as great as it being the other way around.

 

Personally, I find the lack of willingness to give up routine karoeoki night with the friends to spend ONE night on a date rather silly. The ability to break routine is just not there with some of them.

Edited September 25, 2013 by irc333

[irc333]

...funny, I had very recently come across a profile of a woman who gives a mock "Surgeon General's" warning in regards to how busy she is.

 

I have recently become really busy so I am not on this site that much so if I don't get back to you please don't take it as I am being rude, because I am not that type of person. I can be a bit of a smart aleck but that's as far as the rudeness goes with me. I own a small business on the side of everything else and never expected to get as much work as I have been getting.

 

This is kind of an example of having your cake and eat it too.

 

"I'm on a dating site, but fair warning, I'll only go out with you when it's convenient to me"

 

Even though it seems people actually desire to date, to actually partake in what pertains to dating is a completely different conversation altogether.

 

It's like they want you to date them, but they have to call ALL the shots.

[irc333]

You either don't try hard enough and look like you aren't really interested or try too hard and pressure people.

 

Right, and it's a challenge for me there, I either swing the pendulum one direction or the other, but hardly ever in the middle and...the woman does not make it easy for me.

[sickpuppy]

...funny, I had very recently come across a profile of a woman who gives a mock "Surgeon General's" warning in regards to how busy she is.

 

I have recently become really busy so I am not on this site that much so if I don't get back to you please don't take it as I am being rude, because I am not that type of person. I can be a bit of a smart aleck but that's as far as the rudeness goes with me. I own a small business on the side of everything else and never expected to get as much work as I have been getting.

 

This is kind of an example of having your cake and eat it too.

 

"I'm on a dating site, but fair warning, I'll only go out with you when it's convenient to me"

 

Even though it seems people actually desire to date, to actually partake in what pertains to dating is a completely different conversation altogether.

 

It's like they want you to date them, but they have to call ALL the shots.

 

Yep. I've noticed that in real life too. Then again if it was some "God" whom every other girl wanted you can bet your azz that chick would be pushing HIM to hang out/go out. Then whining: "Why doesn't this guy want to go out with me!" lmao

 

I don't buy the nonsense. No bitterness. It's just you have to take what people tell you with a grain of salt though it does get old after awhile.

Edited September 25, 2013 by sickpuppy

[irc333]

Yep. I've noticed that in real life too. Then again if it was some "God" whom every other girl wanted you can bet your azz that chick would be pushing HIM to hang out/go out. Then whining: "Why doesn't this guy want to go out with me!" lmao

 

I don't buy the nonsense. No bitterness. It's just you have to take what people tell you with a grain of salt though it does get old after awhile.

 

Well, it seems as though I get the, "I have to see what I have going on this weekend before I can make a decision" a lot lately.

 

This means, they are holding out IN CASE some event more worthwhile than spending time with me, comes into the picture. EVEN THOUGH, they do not have anything planned at all, but they are hoping they DO have other plans that don't, of course, involve you. LOL

[zebracolors]

I now try to really be careful of who I give my contact info to. Like in the initial seconds after a guy asks for my number, if there is even a little doubt in my mind that I would contact him for another meet up, I politely refuse. I recently went on one date with a guy I had met and was initially attracted to. I was the one who initiated the date, making sure he understood my interest because he was a great guy, kept his promise about calling me back either to say that night worked for him or if he had other stuff to do. (Sadly I may never see that guy again, Long story)

 

So to the topic, there are some of us women who make a point to make our mutual interest obvious, and who will be both truthful to both the guy and to themselves. Sometimes One of the worst feelings one can have is when you tell someone you're not interested because you see their disappointment.

[Imajerk17]

At least irc333 makes an effort. I am sure he is learning along the way, unlike a lot of whiners on here. Practice makes perfect!

 

 

Yes I will give him that. And I am rooting for him to do well. Thing is though, whenever things don't work out between him and the girl, irc doesn't seem to take any responsibility for it. He instead seems to file it under "One More Reason Why Women Are Crazy".

 

I blew my share of situations but I also made a point of learning from them. Thing is, women tend to have their guard up much higher than we men do when it comes to getting to know someone new in the dating game. They are a lot more self-protective than we are. It might come across as "twitchy" behavior on their part (e.g., flaking, acting as this woman is acting) and I don't think that all of their behaviors in this regard actually serve them, but it is what it is.

 

What irc needed to do (suggestions for next time): When he calls the girl, have a few dates and times and ideas at the ready instead of fixating on meeting up with her one day, as irc seemed to do wanting to meet up on Saturday. Get the logistics handled quick in that first phone call. When a girl says a particular day won't work for her, don't press her on that schedule for that day, instead suggest another day. And if she seems resistant, use humor as I suggested earlier.

 

Now, irc could have handled things perfectly with the girl and she could still flake. It happens. BUT he will give himself the best shot of things succeeding with the right girl when he comes across her.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Imajerk17

[irc333]

Hi IMJ, thanks for the pick me up, I am getting better at initially attracting women, but I still need to keep that "ebb and flow" going until I finally have her hooked.

 

Well, I did have other dates in mind, I said, "What about Friday?" She said she had to be to bed early on Fri night so she could get up early in the morning for her volunteer work.

 

Then I suggested Sunday, she said she spends time with family on Sunday.

 

Yes I will give him that. And I am rooting for him to do well. Thing is though, whenever things don't work out between him and the girl, irc doesn't seem to take any responsibility for it. He instead seems to file it under "One More Reason Why Women Are Crazy".

 

I blew my share of situations but I also made a point of learning from them. Thing is, women tend to have their guard up much higher than we men do when it comes to getting to know someone new in the dating game. They are a lot more self-protective than we are. It might come across as "twitchy" behavior on their part (e.g., flaking, acting as this woman is acting) and I don't think that all of their behaviors in this regard actually serve them, but it is what it is.

 

What irc needed to do (suggestions for next time): When he calls the girl, have a few dates and times and ideas at the ready instead of fixating on meeting up with her one day, as irc seemed to do wanting to meet up on Saturday. Get the logistics handled quick in that first phone call. When a girl says a particular day won't work for her, don't press her on that schedule for that day, instead suggest another day. And if she seems resistant, use humor as I suggested earlier.

 

Now, irc could have handled things perfectly with the girl and she could still flake. It happens. BUT he will give himself the best shot of things succeeding with the right girl when he comes across her.