Rollercoaster Ride

[stormywind]

First of all, anyone who my threads annoy please don't read this or comment. I really don't want to hear about how you're tired of my threads. You don't HAVE to read them.

 

 

Ok, first off, I have been friends with a MM. We are attracted to each other and did kiss a few times but that's it. We then went back to being friends.

 

He tells me last week that he is going out of town but he gets back Tuesday night and can stop by to meet up with me Wednesday (today). We had some business to discuss plus we're going to catch up with each other since we haven't seen each other in a several weeks.

 

Well, today he just blew it off. Said a "crisis" came up and he doesn't think he can get away --and that we'd have to postpone it. He seemed rushed and ended it with "Have a nice Thanksgiving" and I just said: "Yeah, whatver. bye."

 

The whole "getting together" was HIS idea---not mine. I didn't even hint at it. I just asked his advice on the phone about some stuff and HE said he was coming back Tuesday night and can stop by my house on Wednesday to talk about it.

 

I don't even think I'll acknowledge him the next time I see him (we work in the same building but I haven't been at work for the past month).

 

Why the up and down behavior? It feels like a friggin rollercoaster. One day he's wanting to come by, the next he blows me off.

 

Also, one day about a month ago, he told me that he was working on his marriage. About 2 weeks ago, he's was referring to his wife as "stupid" to me as in the comment: "My wife is so stupid, she......" Then last week he mentions wanting to come over.

 

You know--I wonder if he's really the decent guy that he seemed to be.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by stormywind

 

You know--I wonder if he's really the decent guy that he seemed to be.

 

This guy is getting ready to cheat on his wife with you and you are asking if he is decent or not? WTF?

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

Your post isn't annoying. You just have to understand there is alot he doesn't tell you. He is cheating on his wife which does tell you he can't be trusted nor is he reliable. His family life will always come first and you are just a side dish when he gets a little hungry for a change. But you already knew that right?

 

Yes you shouldn't acknowledge him unless you love rollercoasters. When the time comes that he really wants a change in his life, and leaves his wife and becomes available, both physically and emotionally, then you can re-evaluate your situation.

[stormywind]

Originally posted by alphamale

This guy is getting ready to cheat on his wife with you and you are asking if he is decent or not? WTF?

 

Well I don't really know if that was his intention of seeing me or not.

[stormywind]

Originally posted by mom-wife-cheater

He is cheating on his wife which does tell you he can't be trusted nor is he reliable.

 

We didn't sleep togther so I don't know if he is considered a cheater.

 

 

I guess I wonder---is he a decent guy BECAUSE he cancelled today? I mean, maybe that means he's NOT a cheater. I don't know. I just dont' get why he planned coming by today. All I had said to him was to let me know when he could discuss that stuff sometime and he asked if I was still off the following week and when I said yes, he said he could come by on Wednesday.

[Merin]

Stormy.. This MM isn't good for your emotional well being.

 

There isn't any making him "okay" or trying to "justify" his behaviour.

He is married, he has obligations to his wife.

The two of you have kissed.. and I'm willing to bet if you asked his wife if this was cheating she would think so..

 

I really hate to see you feeling so terrible about how he treats you.. but honestly the only person who can put a stop to that is you.

[stormywind]

Merin: I guess since it couldn't be more, I wanted to at least be friends with him. Our personalities just mesh really well with each other.

 

I wonder what kind of person he "really" is. It'd be nice to hear what the wife has to say. Maybe there's a good reason their marriage isn't good anymore.

 

I guess I try to figure these things out because if I'm being fooled this time, maybe it will help me in the future.

 

I still can't believe the difference between talking to him last Wednesday and talking to him today.

[Merin]

Originally posted by stormywind

Merin: I guess since it couldn't be more, I wanted to at least be friends with him. Our personalities just mesh really well with each other.

 

I wonder what kind of person he "really" is. It'd be nice to hear what the wife has to say. Maybe there's a good reason their marriage isn't good anymore.

 

I guess I try to figure these things out because if I'm being fooled this time, maybe it will help me in the future.

 

I still can't believe the difference between talking to him last Wednesday and talking to him today.

 

Honestly I wouldn't try to "figure" him out anymore Stormy..

I believe he's given you enough to go by that he isn't even a good friend to you.

 

If you want to take something good from this for future potential relationships.. don't look at MM as potential "romantic partners" regardless IF the marriage is "bad" because until they are divorced.. they are still married.

[stormywind]

Posted by Merin:

If you want to take something good from this for future potential relationships.. don't look at MM as potential "romantic partners" regardless IF the marriage is "bad" because until they are divorced.. they are still married.

 

--------------

 

I wasn't having a romantic relationship with him though.

 

As for him not being a good friend, seems to be the case with everyone in my life. I guess I accept it as friendship because no one is ever there for me more than that.

[Merin]

Originally posted by stormywind

Posted by Merin:

If you want to take something good from this for future potential relationships.. don't look at MM as potential "romantic partners" regardless IF the marriage is "bad" because until they are divorced.. they are still married.

 

--------------

 

I wasn't having a romantic relationship with him though.

 

As for him not being a good friend, seems to be the case with everyone in my life. I guess I accept it as friendship because no one is ever there for me more than that.

 

Stormy.. you've said yourself the two of you kissed and made out.. that crosses over the frienship status, it does.

 

You can continue to be negative regarding your life and the people you met if you choose.. but it won't make things any better. While yes there are some people who are just toxic but ultimately it is YOUR choice to allow people into your life or to let go of them when they are hurting you emotionally.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by stormywind

As for him not being a good friend, seems to be the case with everyone in my life. I guess I accept it as friendship because no one is ever there for me more than that.

 

I think this is the issue more than anything. I was actually talking about this with a good friend last night. He was complaining that none of his friends are there for him or go out of their way for him, like he does.

 

IMO, it boils down to you. Because people respond very much to how you feel about yourself. If you don't feel good about yourself, chances are you have difficulty in romantic AND platonic relationships. And I think Merin said, don't look at MM as potential romantic partners.

 

This same friend met someone who is engaged recently. He said the girl complained about her relationship a lot and that her fiance is an a$$. But my feeling is this - if a person is not happy in their relationship, they need to deal with it. Not complain all the time to people who aren't even involved in the relationship - that doesn't fix anything.

 

I feel for you, I have problems making new friends as well. I tend to be kind of shy and withdrawn around new people. For me, it's from really low self-esteem and a lifetime of abusive or controlling relationships. But working on this issue takes sacrifice, and a lot of insight into your own choices and behavior.

[stormywind]

Why would how I feel about myself CAUSE problems with relationships? I was feeling FINE until this happened. I do pretty well until things like this happen. I am somewhat shy but not always and most people who get to know me find me quite funny---I make them laugh. They tell me how much they love my sense of humor, how witty I am, etc... ARe those people there for me though? No.

I guess I have a problem with you saying that I CAUSE people to treat me this way. I wasn't feeling bad about myself until he did this.

 

And while others have done things in the past similar to this, I still keep going. So---how is it I'm CAUSING it?

[blind_otter]

That's the funny thing about sabotaging yourself. 9 times out of 10 you don't realize what you're doing.

 

I am reluctant to touch on any more points because, it seems like you expend a lot of energy defending yourself. I am not attacking you, I don't think the people who were annoyed at your posts were attacking you either - when you post your problems on a public message board, you get responses from people who assert that it is their personal opinion - and honestly, the words of someone you don't even know, who you will never meet, shouldn't hurt you so much - they are just random comments from cyberspace!

 

In terms of "causing" - no one ever "makes" anyone feel anything, you make yourself feel things through your reactions to your personal interpretations of what other people do. And you should remember that they are just that - YOUR personal interpretation, the person in question most likely didn't even think about how you would feel.

 

Anyways, ultimately, people respond to how you feel about yourself, because that is what you project. You are not a closed system walking around, not reflecting anything to others - your body language, how you hold yourself, how you speak to other people - all of this influences how other people treat you. If you are confident in yourself, and happy with your life, and happy with how you are, other people can sense this. If you are miserably, needy, and clingy, other people can sense this as well.

[Merin]

Originally posted by blind_otter

 

 

Anyways, ultimately, people respond to how you feel about yourself, because that is what you project. You are not a closed system walking around, not reflecting anything to others - your body language, how you hold yourself, how you speak to other people - all of this influences how other people treat you. If you are confident in yourself, and happy with your life, and happy with how you are, other people can sense this. If you are miserably, needy, and clingy, other people can sense this as well.

 

Words of Wisdom..

[stormywind]

Originally posted by Merin

Stormy.. you've said yourself the two of you kissed and made out.. that crosses over the frienship status, it does.

I agree with that. But we went back to just being friends. He wasn't trying anything anymore.

 

You can continue to be negative regarding your life and the people you met if you choose.. but it won't make things any better. While yes there are some people who are just toxic but ultimately it is YOUR choice to allow people into your life or to let go of them when they are hurting you emotionally.

 

Yeah, I guess I wonder what it is that I do that ruins things. Like before when he made plans to come over and knew I straightened the place up for company, even if he was busy he'd still make it because he knew I'd straightened up (he mentioned that he didn't want to postpone it because he knew I'd made that effort already- (not that the place is usually a pigsty but not company-ready either).

And then THIS time, he didn't CARE that I'd straighted up expecting company---he just cancelled without regard to that.

 

So it makes me wonder what happened---or what did I do--that made that change?

[stormywind]

Originally posted by blind_otter

 

I am reluctant to touch on any more points because, it seems like you expend a lot of energy defending yourself. I am not attacking you, I don't think the people who were annoyed at your posts were attacking you either - when you post your problems on a public message board, you get responses from people who assert that it is their personal opinion - and honestly, the words of someone you don't even know, who you will never meet, shouldn't hurt you so much - they are just random comments from cyberspace!

Whether I know a person or not---their words can still hurt me. I don't have a problem with people having different opinions either as long as they can back them up.

 

For instance---some people will just reply with "What do you care what he thinks? He's married!" Those kind of repsonses aren't helpful. They're blocks to communication. The person is telling you (in effect) "stop even talking about it!"

 

Another reason I wrote that disclaimer on my thread was because I've had a person or two say: "you've already talked about this topic in another thread/post. , blah, blah, blah...."

What they don't get is that new developments have occurred or new feelings about things--or new questions. Again those comments block communication becuase they imply: "Just stop talking about this."

 

So that's why those disclaimers were added.

 

Anyways, ultimately, people respond to how you feel about yourself, because that is what you project. You are not a closed system walking around, not reflecting anything to others - your body language, how you hold yourself, how you speak to other people - all of this influences how other people treat you. If you are confident in yourself, and happy with your life, and happy with how you are, other people can sense this. If you are miserably, needy, and clingy, other people can sense this as well.

 

This I've got to disagree with. Here's why: It seems when I'm not wanting anything to do with anyone (such as after a breakup earlier this year), people approach me (the guy who's the subject of this thread). Believe me, when he first starting noticing me I looked depressed and didnt care to even say "hi" to anyone. It's later, when they start to get me to soften up, talk, smile, show interest back--that they change.

 

 

That's why I have a hard time buying that theory you mentioned. Either that or I just find some pretty screwed up people.

[stormywind]

You know, I sorta wonder if he's the "nice" guy I think he is.

 

Two months ago, my dad died. I stayed home from work the next day (of course) and I called him to tell him. He said he'd come over and was over at my house right away. While he had kissed me once before it wasnt much of a kiss. This day that he came over again, is when he tried to go further--and I'm thinking he might have gone even further if I had been more encouraging.

 

At the time, I was happy that he came by so quick because I really needed someone there for me that day.

 

Now I wonder if he just was using it as an opportunity knowing that I'd be vulnerable.

 

I guess it makes me wonder if I really know *who* he is. Some people can be good at hiding it.

[immoralist]

I have been friends with a MM. We are attracted to each other and did kiss a few times but that's it. We then went back to being friends.

 

 

There's the problem: first friends, then almost lovers and then friends again. Your MM may not have wanted to be relegated to friend ( ie, no sex status) after making out with you. My bet is that he resents the limits on your relationship and is acting vindictively. The roles and boundaries between you two are vague and fuzzy. He lashes out at you because he perceives that you tell him you just want to be friends yet you're attracted to him and have kissed him.

 

When roles get this fluid , identity becomes a problem as do frustrated expectations. He's being a pri#k because he thinks you won't fu#k him. Men are simple creatures.

[stormywind]

Originally posted by immoralist

There's the problem: first friends, then almost lovers and then friends again. Your MM may not have wanted to be relegated to friend ( ie, no sex status) after making out with you. My bet is that he resents the limits on your relationship and is acting vindictively. The roles and boundaries between you two are vague and fuzzy. He lashes out at you because he perceives that you tell him you just want to be friends yet you're attracted to him and have kissed him.

 

When roles get this fluid , identity becomes a problem as do frustrated expectations. He's being a pri#k because he thinks you won't fu#k him. Men are simple creatures.

 

I'd definately agree with that point with guys I've known who have liked me but who I just wanted to be friends with and told them that.

 

But with the MM, I never told him that. Also, I don't think that I gave the impression to him that it could never ever go further. I'm not saying that it was good that I didn't, but I didn't. So in this case, I don't think that theory holds true.

 

But in other cases, it DEFINATELY does. I have had male friends who've wanted to be more and they claimed that they had no problem just being friends (since that's all I wanted)---but they always end up with *some* bitterness about it and it comes out eventually. Of course, they'll NEVER admit it.

[immoralist]

Thanks for the additional explanation. stormy. Based on what you're telling me, this married man has a case of "cold feet," the "guilts"--and is moving away from anything more with you. It's "approach/avoidance" dance steps, now.

 

Will his new found conscience stick? That's anybody's guess.

 

My best guess is the if you work together, are attracted to each other, have kissed and otherwise acted on this mutual sexual attraction and he persists in demeaning his wife to you, that you've not heard the last from this MM. An affair remains a real possibility, despite your MM's behavior, now.

[Devildog]

Originally posted by stormywind

You know, I sorta wonder if he's the "nice" guy I think he is.

 

Two months ago, my dad died. I stayed home from work the next day (of course) and I called him to tell him. He said he'd come over and was over at my house right away. While he had kissed me once before it wasnt much of a kiss. This day that he came over again, is when he tried to go further--and I'm thinking he might have gone even further if I had been more encouraging.

 

You sorta wonder if he's a nice guy? He tries to take advantage of you in a very deep moment of grief, and you wonder if he's a nice guy? Let me clear it up for you then. He IS NOT a nice guy. He is a predator.

 

As far as his marriage problems go, it takes two to make a marriage work and two to destroy it. He isn't a saint who is being tormented and punished by some unfeeling shrew. He isn't doing his part to make things better either. It's easy to blame someone else for our problems but to actually look at ourselves and what we do wrong is a sign of a strong and mature person.

[stormywind]

Originally posted by immoralist

Thanks for the additional explanation. stormy. Based on what you're telling me, this married man has a case of "cold feet," the "guilts"--and is moving away from anything more with you. It's "approach/avoidance" dance steps, now.

 

Will his new found conscience stick? That's anybody's guess.

 

My best guess is the if you work together, are attracted to each other, have kissed and otherwise acted on this mutual sexual attraction and he persists in demeaning his wife to you, that you've not heard the last from this MM. An affair remains a real possibility, despite your MM's behavior, now.

 

I think that's probably true. Friends of mine have told me the same thing.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. It REALLY does help to have all of this input from people. It really helps me to work it all out in my mind and understand things.

[stormywind]

Originally posted by Devildog

You sorta wonder if he's a nice guy? He tries to take advantage of you in a very deep moment of grief, and you wonder if he's a nice guy? Let me clear it up for you then. He IS NOT a nice guy. He is a predator.

 

 

I know. Sometimes I feel really naive thinking the things that I do--especially since I'm not a kid. I think that's why it really helps to post things on here because I can say those things and get feedback. I think you have a good point.

 

As far as his marriage problems go, it takes two to make a marriage work and two to destroy it. He isn't a saint who is being tormented and punished by some unfeeling shrew. He isn't doing his part to make things better either. It's easy to blame someone else for our problems but to actually look at ourselves and what we do wrong is a sign of a strong and mature person.

 

I guess the times I see him pushing me away, I wonder if he's really a good guy who just slipped. But I have a feeling that the pushing me away part is due to the fact that he doesn't want to lose his kids (and probably also his money).

Also, he might not like the fact that I'm too much in his life (him having to see me at work). He might just want someone to fool around with and never have to see again. Who knows---he travels a lot and I wonder if he picks up people out of town who he never has to see again. (although he told me that he's never had a relationship outside of his marriage and I think he was telling the truth on that).

[stormywind]

Btw, the day he came over after my dad died and it didn't go further than making out, he then did an about-face and almost started lecturing me on how he was married and felt guilty, didn't know if he could talk to me anymore, etc....

 

A friend of mine said that he's torn in two directions and that's why he acts so different to me from one day to the next.

 

I remember when he left that day, I was left feeling really bad. I was glad that he came over (because I was all alone, needed a hug, and because he cheers me up), but then he was later pushing me away, which was the last thing I needed after just losing someone close to me.

 

That's why I call it a rollercoaster.

[stormywind]

I just wanted to say that everyone's opinions are really, really helping me with this. I really appreciate having this resource. Thanks and keep the feedback coming.