What kind of man does this?

September 22, 2013

He's has said several times today he will be here tonight, that's in a half hour. I am going to see him. I'm just going to say why it has to be over. He's reasonable and he'll understand I'm not exposing him and I'm still going to be his friend.

I haven't responded to him at all. So if he doesn't show up that's fine. I don't owe him an explanation unless he asks.

The things we have told each other are not just what I want to hear. There is specific reasons we are different than other reasons he's cheated before and those were just about sex. This is about sex AND the friendship.

I could never be in an independent relationship with him, because I have kids, he's untrustworthy.

Edited September 22, 2013 by rae_lana

September 22, 2013

Why do you want to be friends with this scum bag sex addict, Rae lana. Does that even make sense?

He will use the "friendship" to continually try and get more of what he's been getting from you. Don't you understand that? He's bad news. Cut him completely off. Why be friends with trash?

Why would anyone want to be with me?

I'm so similar. I just never cheated before.

September 22, 2013

$20 says that he came over and you had sex. Even if you brought up the idea of shutting the A down, he talked you out of it. Or he stormed out and you wound up calling him and apologizing.

My thought as well. I've read the OP's earlier thread, and I was concerned, reading through this thread for the first time tonight, that it's obvious that the tension was building, and built up tension needs some kind of release.

So right around the time he has promised to come over, when the spouses and children are gone, "Tonight's the only night," he said, and right as the tension is certainly going to peak, after posting regularly through the day, needing support and asking for guidance - she disappears for 8 hours.

I would love to hear that she locked him out and meditated to find inner peace, but as I found during my wife's infidelities which destroyed my own marriage, it's usually a more reasonable bet to assume that things have gotten worse than you thought they ever could.

I'm sorry I'm going to be posting a lot today I think because I've got three texts from him in the last half hour and I could reply any second and I really don't want to!

Yeah, it seems like if she were still white-knuckling it, we would have heard some more from her. The quiet is spooky. Like the sound of doom.

While we're waiting for the recap of this evening, a few comments on earlier posts...

I try to always give her advice as if the affair isn't happening. If she talked about cheating in the past or if he would again I'm honest with her as if he's never told me any of the things he's told me..

"Honest?" I don't think that word means what you think it means.

If I compartmentalize the affair I can do that easily. If she outright asked if me and him were doing something.. I would lie.

"Lie." Now that word you seem to have a handle on.

I try to keep our friendship honest without revealing the affair. I'm sure it makes no sense to you.

So, I'm honest during the times that I'm not lying to her about the fact that I'm betraying her in the worst possible way.

80% of the time, I'm 100% honest.

Does he get off on seeing my facial expressions during times like this or why does he do it.. I have no replied to anything he's sent me the last few days. After I went home he asked if he could come over. With his whole family visiting his house! He wanted to sneak away to see me. Is he losing it? Or is it mind games to get me to reply?

Once they went on a guys trip with a bunch of other guys.. He texted and sent me pictures throughout it....

Me and his wife spent that weekend together.. He sent his wife nothing, not one message or picture and sent me over twenty.

One thing I think he gets off on is kind of a power/humiliation nexus. Being on the trip with your husband, and knowing that you were with his wife, he was demonstrating his ability to humiliate them both.

Same thing when he was texting you, right there in front of her. His power to dominate and humiliate her, right in front of her eyes, so blatantly and brazenly, really got him off.

Does that help you see him as more disgusting?

And here's a real wildcard:

I'm going to turn off my phone now. He just sent this .. "If its over we tell them together and move home. You would get the kids don't think you wouldnt. Nothing is over."

He's lost his effing mind.

So you have been so sure that the two of you will never confess and there's no chance that anybody will find out, but now you must be starting to see that he's a bit of a loose cannon after all - like you have to be realizing that you don't control what he's going to do, especially once things come apart. Look at the crazy reaction he's had to hearing that it might be over...

It's important to note that the two of you have very different ideas about what life will look like after this ends. You think things will go back to "normal" - the previous status quo - so nobody will ever know anything. The only way he can imagine this ending is if they completely break off from you and move away. That's something you don't control.

Incidentally, the way I discovered my wife's final infidelity (and quickly and accurately identified her OM) was through the cell phone bill - the quantities and timing of calls and texts. It made it obvious - painfully and unambiguously obvious. Do you have complete control over your cell phone bill and access to call logs (say online, through your cell carrier's website)? Are you confident that your OM has complete control over his cell phone bill? Because there's a trail to be found there...

Edited September 22, 2013 by Trimmer

September 22, 2013

$20 says that he came over and you had sex. Even if you brought up the idea of shutting the A down, he talked you out of it. Or he stormed out and you wound up calling him and apologizing.

Please tell me I'm wrong. If I'm right...

This is a game. You're in a dysfunctional game and it won't stop until you go no contact. How are you supposed to stay married under these false pretenses? If you need your husband to see you in a more sexual way, TELL HIM. Maybe he'd love to be the rogue lover you are so desiring. I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't, can you? Right now you have an inability to express that intimate desire to him and it's killing your marriage. There's only one way out, Rae Lana, and that's no contact. FOREVER. You know this. You can't just be his friend. Men and women who have an attraction to each other or a sexual history like yours can not be friends. Wake up!! Especially with someone like this manipulative horndog. You're continuing to fool yourself and we are here to tell you that. That's what we can do; the rest is up to you. Please work on your marriage or release your husband from this illusion he is in. You're wasting his life when he could be with someone who wants to make HIM happy. Ignore this other couple.. their sham of a marriage is dragging you down with them.

Why would anyone want to be with you? Go ask your husband.

We didn't have sex although I'm sure that doesn't matter. Him coming over at all the way he did was just as bad.

My husband is sexually attracted to me, it's probably what he likes best about me is my looks and sexuality although he would like it toned down, sex is on his terms only, and I crave his attention to anything OTHER than sex. I'm vocal about that. He'll say really fake compliments to me for a couple days after then forget about it.

OM loves my laugh, my sense of humour, my taste in music and movies and life. My past doesn't scare him away and his doesn't scare mine away. We have both tried over and over to open up to them about what we want and need and it falls on deaf ears.

Edited September 22, 2013 by rae_lana

September 22, 2013

I'm going to turn off my phone now. He just sent this .. "If its over we tell them together and move home. You would get the kids don't think you wouldnt. Nothing is over."

He's lost his effing mind.

Be very afraid, this man is prepared to expose your affair and destroy your marriage to make you available. You brought a bunny boiler into your home, the man is f88ked in the head. This serial cheater sociopath is the man you choose over your husband? You are never going to get rid of this guy, he is going to keep you by threatening to blackmail you, he knows your weakness, the fear of exposure. Your only way out is to tell your husband first and hope for forgiveness. You have put yourself and your marriagein a very dark place. This guy owns you.

September 22, 2013

My thought as well. I've read the OP's earlier thread, and I was concerned, reading through this thread for the first time tonight, that it's obvious that the tension was building, and built up tension needs some kind of release.

So right around the time he has promised to come over, when the spouses and children are gone, "Tonight's the only night," he said, and right as the tension is certainly going to peak, after posting regularly through the day, needing support and asking for guidance - she disappears for 8 hours.

I would love to hear that she locked him out and meditated to find inner peace, but as I found during my wife's infidelities which destroyed my own marriage, it's usually a more reasonable bet to assume that things have gotten worse than you thought they ever could.

Yeah, it seems like if she were still white-knuckling it, we would have heard some more from her. The quiet is spooky. Like the sound of doom.

While we're waiting for the recap of this evening, a few comments on earlier posts...

"Honest?" I don't think that word means what you think it means.

"Lie." Now that word you seem to have a handle on.

So, I'm honest during the times that I'm not lying to her about the fact that I'm betraying her in the worst possible way.

80% of the time, I'm 100% honest.

One thing I think he gets off on is kind of a power/humiliation nexus. Being on the trip with your husband, and knowing that you were with his wife, he was demonstrating his ability to humiliate them both.

Same thing when he was texting you, right there in front of her. His power to dominate and humiliate her, right in front of her eyes, so blatantly and brazenly, really got him off.

Does that help you see him as more disgusting?

And here's a real wildcard:

So you have been so sure that the two of you will never confess and there's no chance that anybody will find out, but now you must be starting to see that he's a bit of a loose cannon after all - like you have to be realizing that you don't control what he's going to do, especially once things come apart. Look at the crazy reaction he's had to hearing that it might be over...

It's important to note that the two of you have very different ideas about what life will look like after this ends. You think things will go back to "normal" - the previous status quo - so nobody will ever know anything. The only way he can imagine this ending is if they completely break off from you and move away. That's something you don't control.

Incidentally, the way I discovered my wife's final infidelity (and quickly and accurately identified her OM) was through the cell phone bill - the quantities and timing of calls and texts. It made it obvious - painfully and unambiguously obvious. Do you have complete control over your cell phone bill and access to call logs (say online, through your cell carrier's website)? Are you confident that your OM has complete control over his cell phone bill? Because there's a trail to be found there...

He did come over and spent most of the night. I didn't let him inside the house, we have a shop we hang out in and stayed there. We did not have sex, but did kiss and that's just as bad I know.

His solution is to continue this the way it is, or tell them and we divorce out spouses and be together. He says he wants to be with both of us but if it came to choosing he needs me because I'm the only one he can talk to, and that we're perfect together (he means sex when saying that in my gut I know.) but I know what he means isn't just about sex or sexual fantasies we share..

We are very very similar. To the point when you guys are saying how awful he is .. And how awful I know he can be.. I feel a stab every time because I'm just like him in so many ways! I may not have cheated before but he did that to cope.. It is for sure a drug for us, we have both also been addicts most of our lives.

His solution, is to continue how we have been and he sees nothing wrong with that and thinks I should just go on anti anxiety pills to help with it :/ .. Or we tell them and we could move back to his home town. He loves my kids and would raise them like his own and is confident I would get full custody, which I most likely would if I wanted it but I do not want to take them from their dad, I wouldn't be able to do that.

Or tell her. The thought kills me. This would kill her.

He asked if I thought I could continue life without him in it, of course I don't want to! He doesn't either, I'm talking begging me to understand where he's coming from.. He said he would rather not blow it up and tell them. He knows that's so extreme but if I want to end it, he will.

September 22, 2013

Absolutely nothing has changed since you started posting here. In fact, it's just gotten worse.

I give this less than 4-5 months before you two are either caught or one of your spouses finally wakes up and sees what's going on right under their noses.

You both are making TOTAL FOOLS of your spouses. Double betrayal is worse than anything.

Be prepared for the worst case senario when your A is busted.

September 22, 2013

Absolutely nothing has changed since you started posting here. In fact, it's just gotten worse.

I give this less than 4-5 months before you two are either caught or one of your spouses finally wakes up and sees what's going on right under their noses.

You both are making TOTAL FOOLS of your spouses. Double betrayal is worse than anything.

Be prepared for the worst case senario when your A is busted.

I do not plan on just continuing the affair. I can't anymore my body my brain really can't take it, I shake and I cry and I'm sick to my stomach. I can't just continue it and he knows that.

September 22, 2013

Picture a very emotional couple of people, crying and talking about sex, and abuse and how we both feel like **** ups. We both feel worthless. When we are together we don't.

We drank.. Wrong wrong wrong, I know. But I kept it together and didn't drink much. He called his wife! Half way through the night, around one in the morning to prove to me she was ok with him being at my house. To be clear my husband would have NOT been ok with that.. Us hanging out sure, but not totally alone drinking. He's ok with it when my friend is there too.. Even though those times she always went to bed, he shouldn't have trusted us then either.

He says she doesn't understand him and he married her because he loves her but its not the same as with me, I understand that because I feel the same about my husband. But I have young children and two teenage siblings of my husbands to think about too. I could leave my husband, I could. But I wouldn't want to take my kids from him or never see his brother and sister again who I've been with since they were as young as my kids.

I'm just really confused.

Most other women do not know both sides of the story, but I do. She doesn't understand him, she doesn't even try too. She's grossed out by even kissing him.

Think for one minute how you would feel if you loved someone and you knew that they were shown no affection from the person they are married to. I get that I'm a bad person to you .. But he deserves more too, he's screwed up way to much and done horrible things, but he does deserve affection and love.

Both our spouses deserve better than we can give them too.

Edited September 22, 2013 by rae_lana

September 22, 2013

One of the things I said was if I was really your best friend you would not ignore me for days at a time.. He denied ignoring me, said he was just trying to keep his feelings under control and he had to not see of talk to me in order to do that. He said he hasn't thought about anyone the way he thought about me and he also admitted there has been other women in the time we've had this affair.. Not that he's been physical with, just texting, that he would want an open relationship with anyone he was with.. Ok with me because I want one too.. But that he knows this is not just lust. In his words "I'd be over you by now if it was. I think about you every single day. I dream about us meeting sooner and I picture us wrinkled and old together. I never pictured that with anyone not even her"

I think we have to come clean but I literally feel like I might faint when I consider it.

Edited September 22, 2013 by rae_lana

September 22, 2013

Absolutely nothing has changed since you started posting here. In fact, it's just gotten worse.

You both are making TOTAL FOOLS of your spouses. Double betrayal is worse than anything.

Be prepared for the worst case senario when your A is busted.

You fantasy is a little twisted, you see yourselves all cuddled up in your shop like Romeo and Juliet, two lovers that can read each others soul that no one else can seem to understand. Here's what I see, a mother raising 4 children cheating on her husband with her best friends psychotic serial cheating husband. So psychotic that he purposely tempts getting caught by texting you while your all in the same room, making a fool of your husband and rather than do what a wife should do, defend him to anyone that try's to dishonor him you intentionally allow him to do it. In fact it excites you. He even phones his wife at 1:00 in the morning to tell his wife that he's drinking and where and who he is with so she can let it slip out to your husband one day. Nothing more romantic than sneaking into to the dirty little shop to make out with the dirty husband of your best friend. Your vision is clouded and I hope you wake up soon because he's getting crazier.

September 22, 2013

I think about you every single day. I dream about us meeting sooner and I picture us wrinkled and old together. I never pictured that with anyone not even her"

I wonder if he said these things to the other wives he cheated with, could this be the reason his wife won't kiss him, that she finds his cheating so disgusting? Would you feel different if it was your husband that was the serial cheater?

September 22, 2013

Firstly, I think his wife is spot on in regard to how she views her husband, and yes, she is correct...he does NOT deserve her affection. Nor does he earn it.

Deserve.....what an entitled word and world we live in. No one deserves ****. People earn the positives in their lives.....did you hear that....EARN.

And my thoughts on deserve..if only people got what they deserved!!!!!

You always end up at how dysfunctional you are both are, a perfect fit, in your brokenness and views/attitudes towards sex. Is that the sum of you? Is your happiness/contentment/peace completely engulfed in sex? That the few moments you steal are worth the totality of all other parts of your life?

What a sad existence. How very vanilla, plain, boring. Lonely.

To never feel joy at just being with your own kids,feeling pride that you make your kids a priority, to give to them...what you were missing in your life. You instead decide to squander this opportunity to heal yourself, and raise healthy kids.

September 22, 2013

Firstly, I think his wife is spot on in regard to how she views her husband, and yes, she is correct...he does NOT deserve her affection. Nor does he earn it.

Deserve.....what an entitled word and world we live in. No one deserves ****. People earn the positives in their lives.....did you hear that....EARN.

And my thoughts on deserve..if only people got what they deserved!!!!!

You always end up at how dysfunctional you are both are, a perfect fit, in your brokenness and views/attitudes towards sex. Is that the sum of you? Is your happiness/contentment/peace completely engulfed in sex? That the few moments you steal are worth the totality of all other parts of your life?

What a sad existence. How very vanilla, plain, boring. Lonely.

To never feel joy at just being with your own kids,feeling pride that you make your kids a priority, to give to them...what you were missing in your life. You instead decide to squander this opportunity to heal yourself, and raise healthy kids.

There is a lot more too this then sex.sex has only been about 10 percent of it.

I'm a good mother and have never done any of this around my kids. Think whatever you want but it's them I'm considering and that's why I'm trying to figure out what to do.

Neither of us are compatible with our spouses. That's the reality.

I have been told things by his wife he has no idea about and don't intend to share them. She only knows of him cheating once and she has caught him texting a couple times. She sees no reason he can't just self pleasure himself and has no intention to work on their marriage. My husband refuses marital counselling. I got myself into a huge mess, but it's not so cut and dry. There is a lot to it.

September 22, 2013

One of the things I said was if I was really your best friend you would not ignore me for days at a time..

I hate this part...I don't get that as well...there is no friendship if you don't talk...that's why friends can't happen after an A...not best friends, not casual friends..nothing...as much as i want it, it doesn't work because nobody wants to be ignored..and if you maintain as you've been going, then you never get out or over the A.

It sucks...but it reality.

September 22, 2013

Neither of us are compatible with our spouses. That's the reality.

Then divorce. It really is that simple. Be apart, share custody of your kids, then do as you please. Though I would hope you'd get yourself into counseling to fix yourself and deal with your insecurities and issues so you can live a happier life overall. And, be on your own with NO man to rely on.

I doubt very much if you and your H divorced, MM would divorce his wife. It's quite rare where BOTH actually divorce, usually one balks. You should be okay alone, MM waiting for you or not.

September 22, 2013

Look this OM does NOT love you. He wants to be with you but wants an open relationship?
That is not love.
Guarantee you guys will be "together" then he'll get tired of it and "fall" for another piece of ass on the side.
Be smarter than this.
Really...

Neither of us equate sex, with love. I would be ok if me and my husband had an open relationship. I get that other people don't understand that but I'm far from the only person who sees it like this.

I agree though. This might not be real love, but it's a real connection. It is. We have been been through the same things.

September 22, 2013

LOL, Pierre you sound like very observing.:D But I totaly agree with your point, there have those kind of women surrounding I knew as well.

You have a voracious need for all kinds of validation. Your self esteem depends on this external validation. Women like you tend to have affairs because no husband can provide external validation to his wife 24/7'

I am almost certain you are very sensual and dress sexy to attract attention. You also know how to flirt quite well because this also brings you more validation.

You are so starved for validation that you become an addict as soon as you get steady validation. I have seen this on the forum many times.

Your OM is a major POS, but you love him because he simply pays attention and does not take you for granted.

Btw, your H is no longer sexually attracted to you. You rarely have sex with your H. I can see right through your posts.

September 22, 2013

wow, what a thread.

what i see is a women who is self aware but could care less.

she says the words, but they have no meaning.

uses shades of grey to camouflage her every move.

she prefers to lip sink rather than sing the song.

blames others for not understanding her own past that she herself does not.

is afraid of the present so remains in her made up past which will never see the future.

most importantly she has the ability to admit... but has no shame.

as i read this thread i feel just as played as the betrayed spouses.

best of luck to you Rae

September 22, 2013

Almost everyone on this board will describe themselves as sexy and attractive and well put together. RL has already said in previous threads she lies, lies, lies... so I question almost everything she has to or will say.

100% agree with this. ^^

Edited September 22, 2013 by writergal

September 22, 2013

So where were your kids while you were in the shop with him most of the night? Alone in the house?

September 22, 2013

Almost everyone on this board will describe themselves as sexy and attractive and well put together.

Why is this? I never understood why people do this when explaining their situation? What does being attractive have anything to do with being in an A?

September 22, 2013

You have a voracious need for all kinds of validation. Your self esteem depends on this external validation. Women like you tend to have affairs because no husband can provide external validation to his wife 24/7'

I am almost certain you are very sensual and dress sexy to attract attention. You also know how to flirt quite well because this also brings you more validation.

You are so starved for validation that you become an addict as soon as you get steady validation. I have seen this on the forum many times.

Your OM is a major POS, but you love him because he simply pays attention and does not take you for granted.

Btw, your H is no longer sexually attracted to you. You rarely have sex with your H. I can see right through your posts.

You are right about everything there except that my husband is not attracted to me sexually.. It's probably the only reason he is attracted to me. That's all he really wants from me is to cook his meals, have sex with him and raise the kids. Me and my husband have never went more than two weeks without having sex.. And that was after my c sections.. We have sex on average 5 times a week.

September 22, 2013

Almost everyone on this board will describe themselves as sexy and attractive and well put together. RL has already said in previous threads she lies, lies, lies... so I question almost everything she has to or will say.

I don't think I've said anywhere that I'm "sexy and attractive" I have horrible self esteem. I've never been content with how I look, but my looks have never been an issue with my husband or other men.. Men find me attractive. I'm aware of that, doesn't mean a whole lot.

I want someone to see the inside of me and like that.

September 22, 2013

Five times a week?

That means OM is getting sloppy seconds.

You need to stop this.

Not to mention as much as the MM sounds like he's been "sharing his love" over the years, god only knows how many std's you're sharing with your poor husband. I don't think that's one of the "marital assets" that you're supposed to share.

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