Levels of "Love" from each party involved...

[zevahc]

I was talking to a friend...about the words love. We both agreed the love isn't a word should that just get thrown around. When two people truly love each other (romantically), it is more than just a crush or really liking someone. I equate it to the way I feel about my child. I would jump in front of a car, give my organs..literally die for her. This is honestly how I felt for xMW. I would give anything and everything. Move mountains, jump in front of a car, whatever necessasry.

 

On the flip side, I find myself questioning whether xMW ever felt the same way, and I have to say absolutely not. I'm not saying it was wrong or right...I can't force feeling onto someone. If she loved me on the same "level", actions would have shown differently, right? But...if two people feel this way, do all the excuses in the world matter? I know there are kids, circumstances etc...that prevent people from leaving comfort, stability, etc...

 

Question is...whether you stayed or left you spouse, OM/OW, I want to hear all perspectives....because I think love really isn't enough...even though people do claim they will do ANYTHING for the person they love this much. Because love without action are just words...right?

[Desirable]

Since day one I have been telling forum members that they were loved during the affair. I say this because many OWs questioned if they were truly loved during the affair.

 

 

My take is that the love feelings were real and not faked. When a married AP says ILY to the single AP the words come from the heart. They are not lying or faking it. However, these words are said within the affair compartment. And sadly------------these folks also live in another compartment: "The marriage".

 

They create a bubble and put the affair in the bubble. Within the bubble everything is true. The ILYs are real, the future plans are real, the intentions to leave the marriage are real.

 

Then, they step out of the affair bubble and are confronted with another reality. And this other reality gets in the way of the ILYs.

 

 

Like another forum member once said:

 

It is like the ILY of a deadbeat dad that does not provide support to his kids but loves them in his heart. It is a feeling with nothing to back it up. However, the feeling is real.

 

I can't even begin to express how much I agree with this.

 

If only it were simple to let love win when it is there between two people. What is a person to do though?

[zevahc]

I can't even begin to express how much I agree with this.

 

If only it were simple to let love win when it is there between two people. What is a person to do though?

 

Desirable...i agree as well to a point. That's not exactly what I'm looking for in responses. I do agree we put things in a bubble...but are the loves for both equal in all cases or is that love not what wins...is it habit, comfort, stability?

 

This board is riddled with people who stay..and are not in love..or don't claim to be...so the question becomes...why?

Edited September 18, 2013 by zevahc

[Desirable]

Desirable...i agree as well to a point. That's not exactly what I'm looking for in responses. I do agree we put things in a bubble...but are the loves for both equal in all cases or is that love not what wins...is it habit, comfort, stability?

 

This board is riddled with people who stay..and are not in love..or don't claim to be...so the question becomes...why?

 

I feel like sometimes people just take the easy way out. There are so much invested into long term relationships, especially marriages...that maybe they just don't want to go through the consequences of leaving because it would cause so much trouble finically, with family, etc. However, I feel like it is because of all those things that people never achieve the genuine happiness and love they truly want and just settle. It is sad, but I guess the consequences of breaking off a marriage or serious relationship similar are just too risky or scary to risk going after what you truly want.

[Quiet Storm]

For some people, love is an action word. To love someone means that you treat them in a loving way. You care for them. You have their best interests at heart. You support them. You encourage them. You help them. You are considerate, and giving and kind.

 

For others, love is more trivial. They love people like they love cheeseburgers, or action movies, or motorcycles. It's an objectified kind of love. For them, love is about how the other person or object makes them feel. So if you make them feel good, whether you are a person, a vacation, a football game...they love it.

[zevahc]

For some people, love is an action word. To love someone means that you treat them in a loving way. You care for them. You have their best interests at heart. You support them. You encourage them. You help them. You are considerate, and giving and kind.

 

For others, love is more trivial. They love people like they love cheeseburgers, or action movies, or motorcycles. It's an objectified kind of love. For them, love is about how the other person or object makes them feel. So if you make them feel good, whether you are a person, a vacation, a football game...they love it.

 

Thank you QS...i think this is really at the heart of what I was curious about...i think you're spot on...i think some people truly just don't love as deeply...either because they aren't wired that way...have never experienced..or some other issue. It's kind of like a toddler right...they start out loving you for the more trivial things..as your child grows....I think they begin to understand the deeper meanings in the relationship from parent/child...at least that's how it happened for me as a child..and even as an adult...forming my opinions of what this real love is...the action and depth behind it all.

[zevahc]

There is another form of love which is related to anything that feeds the addiction.

 

 

I find that people that have an enormous need for external validation fall deeply in love very easily. The love becomes the drug they need to feel validated. A married AP with this kind of love will usually be selfish because the love is not love for the sake of love. As someone said above, the love is not a verb for these folks.

 

I agree. And typically I see those traits. My xW was this way and is to this day. I didn't see that in xAP though I question it now if it just was better hidden.

[HisSweety]

Since day one I have been telling forum members that they were loved during the affair. I say this because many OWs questioned if they were truly loved during the affair.

 

 

My take is that the love feelings were real and not faked. When a married AP says ILY to the single AP the words come from the heart. They are not lying or faking it. However, these words are said within the affair compartment. And sadly------------these folks also live in another compartment: "The marriage".

 

They create a bubble and put the affair in the bubble. Within the bubble everything is true. The ILYs are real, the future plans are real, the intentions to leave the marriage are real.

 

Then, they step out of the affair bubble and are confronted with another reality. And this other reality gets in the way of the ILYs.

 

 

Like another forum member once said:

 

It is like the ILY of a deadbeat dad that does not provide support to his kids but loves them in his heart. It is a feeling with nothing to back it up. However, the feeling is real.

 

Pierre, I agree 100 % . I love him very much and he loves me although we never say it , you can just feel it , but .... when our time is over he goes home to her and I go home to him . Yes we talk about the what if's and the maybe's but in reality over 30 years of marriage for both of us adds up to alot of pain and hurt if we were to take that jump and for what ? .

[zevahc]

Pierre, I agree 100 % . I love him very much and he loves me although we never say it , you can just feel it , but .... when our time is over he goes home to her and I go home to him . Yes we talk about the what if's and the maybe's but in reality over 30 years of marriage for both of us adds up to alot of pain and hurt if we were to take that jump and for what ? .

 

That is the question...

 

If you don't love your spouses, then for love. But if you do, then maybe for nothing. I want to spend my days on earth in good conversation and company with someone I love being around and talking to. Not someone u dead going home to and we cohabitate in separate worlds. I'm single. But if you are married, living a miserable existence wouldn't u seek help to fix it, or change it if it can be repaired?

[Desirable]

Pierre, I agree 100 % . I love him very much and he loves me although we never say it , you can just feel it , but .... when our time is over he goes home to her and I go home to him . Yes we talk about the what if's and the maybe's but in reality over 30 years of marriage for both of us adds up to alot of pain and hurt if we were to take that jump and for what ? .

 

This is why I don't judge cheaters or people in general. Yes on the outside cheating is frowned upon and it really isn't something that should happen just for kicks, but at the same time...sometimes you can't help who you fall for or the feelings that develop between two people. Cheaters, OW, OM, everyone involved in an affair...they are all REAL people with REAL emotions and feelings.

 

My heart goes out to you I hope you guys can figure things out for the best and be happy. It is definitely not an easy decision to to leave 30 yrs of marriage for a shot at new love, especially since there is no way of knowing if it was meant to be.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Well for me it’s a matter of love for my children vs. love for myself…and when it comes down to a choice between my happiness and the happiness of my children, well, they win every time. No question.

 

I have my friend, Mr. Amazing, and I’ve told him this. He understands and therefore our friendship is just a friendship…well, not quite as there are other feelings involved, too. However, at this moment I am unwilling as unwilling to cross that line as he is…so this is where we’re at.

 

I believe my thoughts are all wrapped up in my other issues (how could they not be?) and all the past baggage weights heavy on me, my decisions, and all that back story behind those decisions etc. So I am in the process of trying to figure that out…figure me out…so I can figure this marriage out and the friendship out.

 

It could very well be that I am infatuated with my friend and that is clouding my judgment. Could be that he’s the first really nice man I’ve met in a very long time and that’s coloring my judgment. Could be that I just want OUT of my marriage and I’m willing to use this wonderful man to spring me…and I am NOT willing to use him in that way as he’s just way too nice and good to me….so all of this makes me pause…and reflect…and I come to the same conclusion. Whatever this is, it’s not going to be anything else until or unless I am a single woman and can be truly open with Mr. Amazing…if he has any interest in that…and if he doesn’t…well….

 

So I need to make sure that if/when I leave my marriage it’s for the right reasons…because the marriage was irrevocably broken with no hope….which is hard for me as I am a hopeful person and I honestly can’t remember a time in my life where I “gave up” on anything…

 

So, there you have it…my messy mind’s crazy making…and I am working to unravel all that mess so I can make the best possible decision for me and my children.

 

Adding: I too believe that the L word is a very strong word. I have not uttered that to Mr. Amazing and he has not uttered that to me either. We've declared our "care for you deeply" to each other....and for me that's almost as strong...and for him I get the idea that it's also very strong. So I guess we're dancing around it.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Confusion_Reigns

[HisSweety]

It's not as easy as it sounds , children even adult children would be hurt , grandchildren would be effected . Many lives would be turned upside down and we together ae not going to hurt our children or grandchildren

[HisSweety]

This is why I don't judge cheaters or people in general. Yes on the outside cheating is frowned upon and it really isn't something that should happen just for kicks, but at the same time...sometimes you can't help who you fall for or the feelings that develop between two people. Cheaters, OW, OM, everyone involved in an affair...they are all REAL people with REAL emotions and feelings.

 

My heart goes out to you I hope you guys can figure things out for the best and be happy. It is definitely not an easy decision to to leave 30 yrs of marriage for a shot at new love, especially since there is no way of knowing if it was meant to be.

 

Thank You Desirable , It is so hard but neither of us expected us to fall for each other . It just happened . We love to talk about a future and yes some may say it's just talk , but we know better and so does anyone who see us in the same room together .

[Red Wolverine]

It's funny... I just ended a post with "Love is not enough" then I read this thread.

 

Love isn't enough. Anyone who has read my posts knows I'm very realistic, level headed, and honest. That being said, this thread is based on assumptions. Assumptions that APs genuinely love each other so what's the problem?

 

Love can't be enough to overlook what the consequences are for making that love sustainable. Love between a man and woman will never supersede the love a parent has for their children. Love shouldn't result in you compromising everything you hold dear to you. Asking for that will change your feelings about the other person. Things have to happen in time. The choice is to remove yourself from the situation while that happens. Again, very few people are capable of destroying their spouse while planning a happy life with another.

 

I loved xMM more than any man I've ever been with. Under any other circumstances, it would have been an ideal relationship. I can't ignore his wife, kids, extended family, etc. Those people ground him and are a huge part of who he is.

 

Once he began to see the impact of his decision (by telling his wife), I believe he started to feel himself fading. Good or bad, he was starting to have an identity crisis. The idea of telling his children was apparently more than he could bear.

 

This is why APs should not remain together through separations and divorces. NO ONE knows how they will feel until they are in the midst of it.

 

Regardless, I know he loved me completely. This wasn't about me. If he had gone through with his plan feeling this way, I wouldn't have gotten the man I loved. I would have gotten a shell of guilt, pain, and sorrow.

 

Love is the easy part.

[zevahc]

Well for me it’s a matter of love for my children vs. love for myself…and when it comes down to a choice between my happiness and the happiness of my children, well, they win every time. No question.

 

I have my friend, Mr. Amazing, and I’ve told him this. He understands and therefore our friendship is just a friendship…well, not quite as there are other feelings involved, too. However, at this moment I am unwilling as unwilling to cross that line as he is…so this is where we’re at.

 

I believe my thoughts are all wrapped up in my other issues (how could they not be?) and all the past baggage weights heavy on me, my decisions, and all that back story behind those decisions etc. So I am in the process of trying to figure that out…figure me out…so I can figure this marriage out and the friendship out.

 

It could very well be that I am infatuated with my friend and that is clouding my judgment. Could be that he’s the first really nice man I’ve met in a very long time and that’s coloring my judgment. Could be that I just want OUT of my marriage and I’m willing to use this wonderful man to spring me…and I am NOT willing to use him in that way as he’s just way too nice and good to me….so all of this makes me pause…and reflect…and I come to the same conclusion. Whatever this is, it’s not going to be anything else until or unless I am a single woman and can be truly open with Mr. Amazing…if he has any interest in that…and if he doesn’t…well….

 

So I need to make sure that if/when I leave my marriage it’s for the right reasons…because the marriage was irrevocably broken with no hope….which is hard for me as I am a hopeful person and I honestly can’t remember a time in my life where I “gave up” on anything…

 

So, there you have it…my messy mind’s crazy making…and I am working to unravel all that mess so I can make the best possible decision for me and my children.

 

Adding: I too believe that the L word is a very strong word. I have not uttered that to Mr. Amazing and he has not uttered that to me either. We've declared our "care for you deeply" to each other....and for me that's almost as strong...and for him I get the idea that it's also very strong. So I guess we're dancing around it.

 

I love this post...and your outlook.

[zevahc]

It's funny... I just ended a post with "Love is not enough" then I read this thread.

 

Love isn't enough. Anyone who has read my posts knows I'm very realistic, level headed, and honest. That being said, this thread is based on assumptions. Assumptions that APs genuinely love each other so what's the problem?

 

Love can't be enough to overlook what the consequences are for making that love sustainable. Love between a man and woman will never supersede the love a parent has for their children. Love shouldn't result in you compromising everything you hold dear to you. Asking for that will change your feelings about the other person. Things have to happen in time. The choice is to remove yourself from the situation while that happens. Again, very few people are capable of destroying their spouse while planning a happy life with another.

 

I loved xMM more than any man I've ever been with. Under any other circumstances, it would have been an ideal relationship. I can't ignore his wife, kids, extended family, etc. Those people ground him and are a huge part of who he is.

 

Once he began to see the impact of his decision (by telling his wife), I believe he started to feel himself fading. Good or bad, he was starting to have an identity crisis. The idea of telling his children was apparently more than he could bear.

 

This is why APs should not remain together through separations and divorces. NO ONE knows how they will feel until they are in the midst of it.

 

Regardless, I know he loved me completely. This wasn't about me. If he had gone through with his plan feeling this way, I wouldn't have gotten the man I loved. I would have gotten a shell of guilt, pain, and sorrow.

 

Love is the easy part.

 

I do respect those that love their kids enough to make their M work..or at least give it that shot..but then again, if they are trying to do that, they shouldn't be in or continuing the A. It's not that I don't think choosing your kids is right..it's living two lives that I don't understand.

[Sunshinegrl]

I stay for my kids because it is not fair to them to turn their world upside down because I failed at marriage.

 

I do not want two worlds. I ultimately want only one world, but neither world that I have can offer me the one world I want.

 

But my kids' world matters more to me than my own. Perhaps when they make their own, I will finally be able to make mine.

[zevahc]

I stay for my kids because it is not fair to them to turn their world upside down because I failed at marriage.

 

I do not want two worlds. I ultimately want only one world, but neither world that I have can offer me the one world I want.

 

But my kids' world matters more to me than my own. Perhaps when they make their own, I will finally be able to make mine.

 

Sunshine..if the M is ok and transparent to them...then I respect that...but not if it isn't...I guess that's the depth i'm curious about..

 

If 2 sets of spouses are miserable, having A's, bickering, fighting etc...I do not believe that is good for kids. I guess it depends on how much it affecting them or if they even know.

[Sunshinegrl]

Oh. Yes, I see your point there. In my marriage, it's just deep disappointment and resentment that gets talked about behind closed doors only. The kids don't know.

 

If it was in front of them, yes, it would be better to leave the marriage.

[Red Wolverine]

I do respect those that love their kids enough to make their M work..or at least give it that shot..but then again, if they are trying to do that, they shouldn't be in or continuing the A. It's not that I don't think choosing your kids is right..it's living two lives that I don't understand.

 

That's the problem. Generally, kids are kept out of an affair. Once the discussion of ending the marriage is raised, kids come to the forefront.

 

I had the discussion with my children when I had to tell them their daddy and I would not be living together anymore. It had nothing to do with my affair but that was a conversation none of us will ever forget. It was heartbreaking despite me knowing it had to happen.

 

I can't imagine having that conversation if my affair was the catalyst. I could not have done it.

 

The two lives don't become an issue until they collide. This is why people don't leave. The separate nature meets their needs, maintains the status quo, and feels safe.

[zevahc]

In my case, the xMW had no kids...so I'm trying to relate the factors...as much as she always said she wanted to..and got close...something always took her back. And I can't be that fly on the wall to know why. She always claimed I was her one, but she did have love for him...and had created routine and stability. They have resentments which I'm unaware of particular details.

 

So I have a hard time understanding what her love was in comparison to mine...for me..i would give anything for those that I feel this way for...my daughter, family etc...I would give my life. I suspect her love is more like Pierre said...and maybe it doesn't qualify as that...maybe it's more superficial even if unintentional.

[randomwoman]

I think if the love they felt for the AP was more, they would leave. Nothing would keep them with the spouse.

 

I have felt that I loved the MM at times, he has expressed being in 'some kind of love' with me but if I picture myself holding onto the hands of both and having to choose only one not to fall off the cliff..I'd choose to save my husband over the MM. This tells me that in the bottom of my heart, although the excitement has waned, I love my husband more than I love the man I have been in an EA with. I know he would let me drop in favor of his wife as well.

[zevahc]

I think if the love they felt for the AP was more, they would leave. Nothing would keep them with the spouse.

 

I have felt that I loved the MM at times, he has expressed being in 'some kind of love' with me but if I picture myself holding onto the hands of both and having to choose only one not to fall off the cliff..I'd choose to save my husband over the MM. This tells me that in the bottom of my heart, although the excitement has waned, I love my husband more than I love the man I have been in an EA with. I know he would let me drop in favor of his wife as well.

 

Well stated.....and (in different words) exactly the decision I pressed her with...and I think I only got lies...

[psm04]

In my case, the xMW had no kids...so I'm trying to relate the factors...as much as she always said she wanted to..and got close...something always took her back. And I can't be that fly on the wall to know why. She always claimed I was her one, but she did have love for him...and had created routine and stability. They have resentments which I'm unaware of particular details.

 

So I have a hard time understanding what her love was in comparison to mine...for me..i would give anything for those that I feel this way for...my daughter, family etc...I would give my life. I suspect her love is more like Pierre said...and maybe it doesn't qualify as that...maybe it's more superficial even if unintentional.

 

Zevahc, I don't know what type of person your xAP is, but I can tell you as a MW who doesn't have kids who got in an A with a MM that with or without kids, it's tough to leave what's familiar. I loved/love my xAP. There were no lies about that. But yes, I do have love for my husband. it is just the quieter, secure, stable feeling of love. Not the crazy intense dizzying love that I felt for my xAP. The whole situation is so sad, because I wanted so badly to be with my xAP (not just sexually, but share a life), but the other realities got in the way. But everything that I felt for him was completely real.

 

Depending on how much of a risk taker a person is, they may or may not choose to walk away. If my H and I did not have shared friends, close families, finances, the comfortable financially secure life, etc., I might have walked out without trying much. But since we have all of that, I want to give it my best shot so that if it has to end one day, I'll know that I tried.

 

Please don't mentally exhaust yourself wondering what she did or didn't feel for you. Just believe that she loved you, but that she had her own reasons for staying in her current situation. Only she knows why she's choosing to stay with her H.

[Cinnimon]

MM and I had this conversation long ago when we first confessed our feelings for one another . He said that love was never usually equally proportioned in any relationship, that one always seems to love the other more. He said this at a time when he felt that his love for me was much stronger than my love for him. It never was true, I always had very strong love for him but I was struggling to reveal them fully as I knew he was married and afraid that if I did so I would get hurt.

Fast forward to today, it's more than obvious that his feelings for me are definitely not as strong as mine. Soon after I fully divulged my intense feelings of love for him, he became conflicted with guilt and pulled back hard. It has left me feeling very hurt and abandoned. He says he still loves me but I can feel the difference in now and before.