AlwaysGrowing Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 Forgiveness is not needed towards an ap. It just isn't. My forgiveness is valuable to me. I give it to those that earn it. I don't hand it out like halloween candy, to every creature that knocks on my door. 3
Speakingofwhich Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Delusional. There will never be a reason for the BS to forgive the AP. There is no reason, no need to, no motivation for forgiving the AP. To do so is not needed by the BS to divorce. To do so is not needed by the BS to recover. OW must not have it going on because they settle for half a man. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself! The offender may never know, and in most instances won't! There are thousands of people one needs to forgive in this life to be in good health! For there are thousands of offenses, both large and small, done to each of us in our lifetimes! The happiest, most peaceful people on earth are the most prolific forgivers! And, no, that doesn't mean a forgiving person is a doormat! They are not. They are people of greatness! 1
sweet_pea Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Just because one chooses not to forgive does not make them any less Christian, or a bad person in general. Christian or not, we are all humans, and somethings are hard(er) to do than others, forgiving people who hurt you tremendously being one. I don't blame anyone, look down on them, whether they are Christian or not, because they don't forgive. That is their choice, and if if they choose not to forgive someone who broke them (which is understandable) then so be it.
Coolit Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Just because one chooses not to forgive does not make them any less Christian, or a bad person in general. Christian or not, we are all humans, and somethings are hard(er) to do than others, forgiving people who hurt you tremendously being one. I don't blame anyone, look down on them, whether they are Christian or not, because they don't forgive. That is their choice, and if if they choose not to forgive someone who broke them (which is understandable) then so be it. But that goes entirely against being a "christian" means. To be a true christian you have to learn to forgive. It is one of the most reacurring themes of the new testament and what seperates the old testament from the new. Not even debatable. I mentioned it because of road saying you never have a reason to forgive the AP. and well that isn't true for everyone. But some people think forgiving saying what they did was okay. Which isn't true because then there would he no reason to choose to forgive.
sweet_pea Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 But that goes entirely against being a "christian" means. To be a true christian you have to learn to forgive. It is one of the most reacurring themes of the new testament and what seperates the old testament from the new. Not even debatable. I mentioned it because of road saying you never have a reason to forgive the AP. and well that isn't true for everyone. But some people think forgiving saying what they did was okay. Which isn't true because then there would he no reason to choose to forgive. I still disagree. I just don't believe that because someone chooses not to forgive, that they aren't a 'true' Christian. Yes, forgiving is an important part of Christianity, but are you no longer a "true" Christian because you had an affair? Forgiveness is important, I agree, but just because one chooses not to forgive, or takes a long time to find it in their hearts to forgive does not make them less than in terms of Christianity. Whether we forgive someone or not, we are still loved. That's all I'm saying and now I'm gonna hop off my religious stand lol.
Betterthanthis13 Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Just because one chooses not to forgive does not make them any less Christian, or a bad person in general. Christian or not, we are all humans, and somethings are hard(er) to do than others, forgiving people who hurt you tremendously being one. I don't blame anyone, look down on them, whether they are Christian or not, because they don't forgive. That is their choice, and if if they choose not to forgive someone who broke them (which is understandable) then so be it. I don't know how this fits into the conversation or if it matters but I am not a Christian, the reason I want to forgive has nothing to do with religion. Nothing. 1
Coolit Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I don't know how this fits into the conversation or if it matters but I am not a Christian, the reason I want to forgive has nothing to do with religion. Nothing. She was commenting on me saying that there are reason to forgive the AP contrary to what road said. Like you feeling free for instance And anyone who claims to follow Jesus whose main message was forgiveness and love.
purplesoul Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) hey, as someone also VERY obsessed with the OW(it's getting better), what's getting lost in this christian/forgiveness etc message i think is that end of day forgiving does you more good than you realise. i certainly did not think so, but then a wise friend said to me, ' listen, she's just a girl, she wanted something, she didn't get it'. humanising her even though i wanted to throttle her, made it easier for me to stop stalking her. she's a human who made a grave error and it involved your husband( and clearly he is to blame greatly for this). nothing can change that, she may regret, she may not, she may think this or that about you. doesn't matter.you have the CHOICE to decide what to do next. if your husband is truely remorseful, it is YOUR choice to continue to work on this marriage. this is not to say that rage doesn't rush through me on occasions but i've accepted it. and end of line, you cannot be responsible for other people's thought process, only yours. do yourself a favour, and let it go. the more focus on her, the more you demonize her, and the less you focus on your own rebuilding on marriage. and whether or not you agree with that, you need to do it for your own sanity. Edited September 23, 2013 by purplesoul 1
pinkstraws Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Yes, a lot of times I feel people expect the BS to take the high road every single time. We have to make the decision to divorce , we have to be class acts when interacting or choosing not to interact with the Other. We should process things by using steps 1. 2. and 3. Yeah, no. At times both the AP and WS will be every name in the book. They will be our mortal enemies. Other times just a fleeting thought. There are no guarantees about the aftermath. As I have mentioned before I am just now a year out and my anger stage hit like a semi truck. I did not think it would be this intense. I loathe them both at the moment. That's ok. I don't need any talking out of it or reasons why it isn't fair. . So true! The WS and OW got to give into every immoral impulse and yet somehow in the aftermath, the message we get is that ALL of our impulses are wrong or should be "controlled." Personally I am over it. If I feel like gouging out the eyes of the OW, talking about forgiveness doesn't really respect my current feelings. I am not saying forgiveness is not the goal. but at several points in this process it is just ridiculous. 1
rumbleseat Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I know it's hard, but there comes a time when you need to move forward. Just remember this. you are not doing it for the ow, you are doing it for yourself. You are giving yourself the gift of healing and feeling better. By this, I do not mean that you have to forgive her, but rather that you need to find a ay to make her a non entity in your life. One way that can help is to compare yourself to her. She obviously has little self control...you do. I know it hurts terribly right now, but one day you'll wake up and find that you are only thinking of how good your life has become, how happy you are and how much you have grown. If you think of her at all, it may well be with pity for the sad and pathetic creature she is. If you find that you just can't stop obessing, I would highly recommend counseling for you. It can really help. Best of luck to you and yours
Betterthanthis13 Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 i do not think that forgiving or thinking about her is helping anyone's recovery. OW likely or not cares less about your forgiving her unless she was worried you would tell her H (if she has one). Forgiveness or even letting it go is for your own heart and for that of your WS and your relationship only. I think I look at it slightly differently. Right now in my mind she is still a bit scary to me, threatening almost. Because I don't understand why she did some of the things she did and I have no clue if she just enjoyed the thrill of knowing she was able to get my xbf to keep a secret from me, or what her deal was. So for right now, the idea of running into her is enough to give me a slight panic attack. I'd like that to stop. It is bothersome to me. I don't want to feel like that, ever. If I could forgive her (in my mind only) it would give me freedom from these disturbing neurotic thoughts and make my life better. It's hard for me to forgive her for screwing me over when I have no clue as to why she would do such a thing. But I will get there, hopefully sooner than later.
ladydesigner Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 So true! The WS and OW got to give into every immoral impulse and yet somehow in the aftermath, the message we get is that ALL of our impulses are wrong or should be "controlled." Personally I am over it. If I feel like gouging out the eyes of the OW, talking about forgiveness doesn't really respect my current feelings. I am not saying forgiveness is not the goal. but at several points in this process it is just ridiculous. I LOVE THIS ! So true and read it all the time here on the OW forum. I've even heard the sh*t straight from MOW's mouth Anyhoo I'm with ya, I prefer to gouge her eyes out if I ever run into her. No forgiveness for her or my WH. They both continued to hurt, play games, drag out, torture, belittle, and badmouth me to the bitter end. Why should I forgive people as heinous as that? No thank you!
ladydesigner Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 This is complete utter rubbish' date=' this is making out the ow is to blame. you are not living in reality and completely giving her the wrong impression as to what is happening here. You are just telling her what she wants to hear not what she needs to hear. sorry op :eek: I would not ever want to be my MMs BS, ever. She needs to concentrate on her H not on the OW for sure and what went wrong with their marriage.[/quote'] This is rubbish because unless you were unknowingly the other woman then you know what you are involved in and therefore partly to blame for their marriage breaking down. To see it any other way IS delusional. 2
AlwaysGrowing Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I personally do not believe that lack of forgiving someone makes you stuck. I can move forward with acceptance. Acceptance that the event happened, acceptance that there are people in the world that will hurt others. A great book to read on this is How Can I Forgive You? What rang true to me, was that I free to reserve forgiveness for someone who has the fortitude to admit their culpability and the decency to release me from the pain that they made me suffer. You don't restore your humanity when you forgive and unapologetic offender, he restores his humanity when he works to earn your forgiveness. It also discusses cheap forgiveness. Being that most BS have no intention of allowing the ap ever in their life again, to work on forgiveness towards that person is irrelevant. So acceptance works best here, as the offender need not be involved. Genuine forgiveness involves both parties, one earning the forgiveness, one who is willing to grant it. 2
Coolit Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I LOVE THIS ! So true and read it all the time here on the OW forum. I've even heard the sh*t straight from MOW's mouth Anyhoo I'm with ya, I prefer to gouge her eyes out if I ever run into her. No forgiveness for her or my WH. They both continued to hurt, play games, drag out, torture, belittle, and badmouth me to the bitter end. Why should I forgive people as heinous as that? No thank you! You don't need to. But for some they feel the need. And once they forgive they feel bitterness and anger leave and live in a sense of tranquility. Some people want that. They find if they let it go that the things don't bother them as much anymore. Because all the hatred and lies that are spewed at them just fall off. They don't waste any energy on revenge or wishing for payback. Because they realize that will not change what was done. As I said, forgiveness isn't about sayin what they did is okay. To me forgiveness is saying that I am in a place, a good place, and what you did or do does not matter to me anymore. I wish you no ill will. For some this something to be achieved in the mind. It doesn't have to be an actual verbal thing. 2
Coolit Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Genuine forgiveness involves both parties, one earning the forgiveness, one who is willing to grant it. not at all. No where in the act of forgiveness is it required for one party to be remorseful. What you are talking about is reconciliation. You can forgive someone and continue to forgive someone even if they don't even think they did anything wrong. But you shouldn't reconcile with them. Forgiveness is completely from within. And for some people they can't forgive unless they see remorse. But others can. And the second people's forgiveness is just as genuine. 2
ladydesigner Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 You don't need to. But for some they feel the need. And once they forgive they feel bitterness and anger leave and live in a sense of tranquility. Some people want that. They find if they let it go that the things don't bother them as much anymore. Because all the hatred and lies that are spewed at them just fall off. They don't waste any energy on revenge or wishing for payback. Because they realize that will not change what was done. As I said, forgiveness isn't about sayin what they did is okay. To me forgiveness is saying that I am in a place, a good place, and what you did or do does not matter to me anymore. I wish you no ill will. For some this something to be achieved in the mind. It doesn't have to be an actual verbal thing. You know it's funny, I was bitter and angry for a looooong time but I am now at indifferent towards the whole event and the MOW in general. I don't feel bitter towards MOW or WH but I don't feel forgiveness for them either. My WH will have to work hard at remorse for that one. MOW apologized to me and I can move on. It's not the cheating that I cannot forgive, it was how I was treated by both of them. The bolded is most like how I feel. 2
Betterthanthis13 Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 You know it's funny, I was bitter and angry for a looooong time but I am now at indifferent towards the whole event and the MOW in general. I don't feel bitter towards MOW or WH but I don't feel forgiveness for them either. My WH will have to work hard at remorse for that one. MOW apologized to me and I can move on. It's not the cheating that I cannot forgive, it was how I was treated by both of them. The bolded is most like how I feel. There was another thread recently discussing indifference being the goal. Indifference, forgiveness, acceptance... I don't really care what it is called, to me it is just some future state of mind that I can envision being peaceful and not full of turmoil. HOW to get to that........? I feel like it should be easier for me to let this stuff go now since I don't have my ex around anymore so there is no R to deal with and I don't have any reminders of it in my daily life anymore. But the mental gymnastics are still there.
AlwaysGrowing Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Coolit, you may not feel that my feelings are right, that is your opinion. For myself, this is how I view it. Forgiveness is not necessary, acceptance is. 1
Coolit Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Coolit, you may not feel that my feelings are right, that is your opinion. For myself, this is how I view it. Forgiveness is not necessary, acceptance is. I don't think forgiveness is necessary either. But it is for some. And no matter how a Christian wants to twist it... It is for those who follow certain religeous beliefs. I think your feelings are right for you. But not for everyone.
sweet_pea Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Clearly my views hit a rough spot with some, I'm sorry if you don't like what I had to say about forgiveness. We are all humans and some things come easier than others, one being forgiveness. I don't tell someone that they aren't a "true" whatever just because they didn't do something that is key to their identity. Annnnyyyywhoooo, Photogirl, I know how you feel and it sucks big time. I tend to stew over things for a long time which isn't good. I don't have any other advice than what these wonderful folks have already shared, but I think in time, you will stop thinking about her less and less as she will become a non-factor to your life. The betrayal is still fresh, so it's understandable that you can't help but think about her and the cheating. I'm sorry you're going through this, it sucks.
AlwaysGrowing Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Forgiveness doesn't sit well with many, even those that have other beliefs. That is why I offered up another point of view...levels of forgiveness. The book How Can I Forgive You? by Janis Abrahms Spring, helped me. Just thought it might help others who struggle with moving forward/forgiveness.
Betterthanthis13 Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Forgiveness doesn't sit well with many, even those that have other beliefs. That is why I offered up another point of view...levels of forgiveness. The book How Can I Forgive You? by Janis Abrahms Spring, helped me. Just thought it might help others who struggle with moving forward/forgiveness. I think the word "forgiveness" means different things to different people, too... kind of like defining the word "love". Thanks for the book reccommendation.
Journee Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 Clearly my views hit a rough spot with some, I'm sorry if you don't like what I had to say about forgiveness. We are all humans and some things come easier than others, one being forgiveness. I don't tell someone that they aren't a "true" whatever just because they didn't do something that is key to their identity. Annnnyyyywhoooo, Photogirl, I know how you feel and it sucks big time. I tend to stew over things for a long time which isn't good. I don't have any other advice than what these wonderful folks have already shared, but I think in time, you will stop thinking about her less and less as she will become a non-factor to your life. The betrayal is still fresh, so it's understandable that you can't help but think about her and the cheating. I'm sorry you're going through this, it sucks. I agree with you SP. There are lots of things one is directed not to do in the bible. Everyone sins. Every single day. You have to strive for better everyday. Understand where you come up short. I don't want to get too far off topic but I agree. Struggling with a particular vice does not take away from someone's journey. It's real life. Lust and greed seem to be the sins that have led us here to be in the roles we are in. BS ,WS or AP. Forgiveness , or the lack thereof, can tie into another vice... pride. It's all a struggle. 1
Recommended Posts