Am I wasting my time with him?

[HappyLove]

You are all absolutely right, as painful as it is to hear. I so naive that I'm borderline stupid. I will never let this happen again. I will no longer wear my heart on my sleeve. If you (any of you) were in my shoes, what would be your final message to him? I want to make it clear to him that I understand what he is doing and that it's not acceptable. I want him to feel remorse and regret.

 

There's no need to be all upset or start an argument or even explain things to him. This is a part of dating you dated someone you thought you'd like and he's not what your looking for and you move on. That's it, it's not like you're gonna teach this guy some grand lesson. Guess what, it might happen with the next few guys you meet too but your learning whats acceptable for YOU. You did what your supposed to do give someone a chance see how it plays out he's not up to par so you move on. At least your not dumb enough to stay in a dead end relationship like plenty women happily do just so they can say they have a man.

[snowflakes88]

He will likely not feel remorse or regret, as it doesn't sound like he was all that into you in the first place. You've never even been on a real date with this man, so there is no need for a big speech. Early 20s me would want to sit him down and give him a lecture, tell him what he did wrong, how he hurt my feelings, what he should have done, etc. Early 30s me knows that if he gave a damn in the first place, he would be doing all of those things -- and the fact that he DOESN'T give a damn also means he isn't going to give 2 craps about my speech. The only thing you do by giving a grand speech is give up some of your dignity. I would block him and keep it moving. Simple.

[tinydancer93]

There's no need to be all upset or start an argument or even explain things to him. This is a part of dating you dated someone you thought you'd like and he's not what your looking for and you move on. That's it, it's not like you're gonna teach this guy some grand lesson. Guess what, it might happen with the next few guys you meet too but your learning whats acceptable for YOU. You did what your supposed to do give someone a chance see how it plays out he's not up to par so you move on. At least your not dumb enough to stay in a dead end relationship like plenty women happily do just so they can say they have a man.

 

I get what you're saying about not explaining things to him. And I would agree if it was a typical dating scenario and I simply lost interest/realised we are incompatible, etc. But he should know that it's not OK to treat someone like that. I know that I inadvertently "allowed" him to (up until now), but a part of me wants him to understand (by telling him succinctly in a non-confrontational way) that I am walkng away because his treatment of me has been less than I, or anyone, deserves.

[tinydancer93]

He will likely not feel remorse or regret, as it doesn't sound like he was all that into you in the first place. You've never even been on a real date with this man, so there is no need for a big speech. Early 20s me would want to sit him down and give him a lecture, tell him what he did wrong, how he hurt my feelings, what he should have done, etc. Early 30s me knows that if he gave a damn in the first place, he would be doing all of those things -- and the fact that he DOESN'T give a damn also means he isn't going to give 2 craps about my speech. The only thing you do by giving a grand speech is give up some of your dignity. I would block him and keep it moving. Simple.

 

Ah, that makes sense. The thing is, he led me to believe that he was into me (to the point where I still even now think he was at least initially). He continually texted me until I actually agreed to meet up with him, even though I repeatedly told him I was too busy (this went on for weeks, by the way, so of course I assumed he must really be interested if he kept pursuing). On our first date (which could actually be counted as a date because we met up a cafe) he was so lovely and warm. He gave me many compliments and made it very clear that he was into me and said he never would have never given up trying to get me to meet up with him, no matter how much I said I was busy. We also had a chat about my ex - he brought it up, not me! And he thoroughly disagreed with how my ex treated me and implied that he would/could never do such a thing, and that my ex is incredibly stupid for losing a girl like me. The ironic thing is, he is treating me in a similiar way to what my ex did - as an ego stroke, a "trophy" to show that he managed to "catch" a pretty young thing. I mean, does this man not know what he is doing? Should I not TELL him? And if he DOES know what he is doing, he must be very manipulative and uncaring, especially after I confided in him how my ex treated me. I just don't understand.

Edited September 16, 2013 by tinydancer93

[snowflakes88]

He is 43. He knows what he is doing. He knows how to treat a woman. He does not need you to tell him. I'm sorry to be harsh, but you really need to accept that. I know it sucks. But come on! Do you honestly think he's just been wandering through adult dating for like 20+ years and it's never occurred to him that a woman might like to go on a date outside of his bedroom? Or that a woman might like him to make plans in advance? Or keep the plans he makes? Do you truly think you'll be telling him something new? You seem like a bright girl, so I know you know better.

 

I think deep down, you're holding out hope that you'll give him this speech and he'll have a miraculous turnaround -- start taking you out in public on proper dates, keeping plans, giving you advance notice, spending quality time, etc. Not gonna happen. But if it would make you feel better to exhaust all possibility, go ahead and have a talk with him. It won't change anything, but you seem like the type who won't be able to let go until you do it, even though you'll be more hurt/less dignified in the end.

[tinydancer93]

He is 43. He knows what he is doing. He knows how to treat a woman. He does not need you to tell him. I'm sorry to be harsh, but you really need to accept that. I know it sucks. But come on! Do you honestly think he's just been wandering through adult dating for like 20+ years and it's never occurred to him that a woman might like to go on a date outside of his bedroom? Or that a woman might like him to make plans in advance? Or keep the plans he makes? Do you truly think you'll be telling him something new? You seem like a bright girl, so I know you know better.

 

I think deep down, you're holding out hope that you'll give him this speech and he'll have a miraculous turnaround -- start taking you out in public on proper dates, keeping plans, giving you advance notice, spending quality time, etc. Not gonna happen. But if it would make you feel better to exhaust all possibility, go ahead and have a talk with him. It won't change anything, but you seem like the type who won't be able to let go until you do it, even though you'll be more hurt/less dignified in the end.

 

Yep, you're right. I just don't want to believe that he's not like this with all the people his dated, because it makes me think WHY ME? Why am I the woman he treats like this? Am I worth so little that I've now had TWO men treat me like this in a row whereas they have probably been perfect gentlemen to the other women they've dated?? There must be something deeply wrong with me -- I shouldn't blame these men just because they see that.

[snowflakes88]

There's nothing wrong with you, sweetie. You're just YOUNG. How do you think those of us who are older and more experienced have this advice to offer you? It's because we've been there.

 

I spent lots of my early 20s doing what you're doing now -- putting up with poor treatment and half-ass effort. Usually not even because I even really liked the guy all that much, but because I felt like you did. A man acting largely disinterested made me doubt myself and my worthiness, made me yearn for his validation. "If he just did _____, he'd see how great we are together!" "If he would just _____, he'd get to know how amazing I am." You can drive yourself crazy with that kind of thinking.

 

But if you keep living, you'll get to the point where you realize that men are exceedingly simple. For the most part, there are no mixed signals. They know what they want -- and if it's you, there will be no doubt. A man who is truly interested in you will ask you out. In advance. Outside of his bedroom. He'll keep the plans. He'll delight in making you feel special and putting a smile on your face, the same way you'll delight in doing that for him. You won't feel compelled to come online and analyze his non-effort, especially not so early on. It will be easy, and it will work.

 

Not every man you like will be into you, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that something is wrong with you. Just means you aren't a fit. The sooner you can wrap your mind around that, the better. These days, if a man doesn't demonstrate clear and consistent interest in me, I keep it moving. No speeches, no Big Important Talks, no internalizing and beating myself up about it. I'm an attractive, intelligent, funny, cool-ass chick. Period. I don't let someone else's interest in me (or lack thereof) alter how I feel about myself. I deserve someone who thinks I'm awesome and amazing without me having to lecture them or sell myself to them -- and so do you. Chin up.

[snowflakes88]

One more word of advice: the next time you meet someone new, don't go spilling your guts about how badly your ex treated you. All that does is signal to the new guy that you're a woman who is willing to be a doormat and tolerate poor treatment. A bad person will prey on that, and even a good guy will make a mental note of it and factor it into his opinion of you. Good rule of thumb -- if someone asks what happened w/ your ex, give a general answer. Timing wasn't quite right. Outgrew each other. Something like that. No need to give a detailed rundown of all the crap you were willing to put up with.

[tinydancer93]

One more word of advice: the next time you meet someone new, don't go spilling your guts about how badly your ex treated you. All that does is signal to the new guy that you're a woman who is willing to be a doormat and tolerate poor treatment. A bad person will prey on that, and even a good guy will make a mental note of it and factor it into his opinion of you. Good rule of thumb -- if someone asks what happened w/ your ex, give a general answer. Timing wasn't quite right. Outgrew each other. Something like that. No need to give a detailed rundown of all the crap you were willing to put up with.

 

That's good advice. I was actually hesitant about talking about how my ex treated me for exactly that reason - that he might (even if just subconsciously) assume that he can treat me like that too because I "put up with it". Although I did make a point of telling him I cut contact with my ex because of the way I was treated and that I would not stand for that kind of treatment. (I really did believe at that time that I wouldn't make that same mistake again - I guess I just hadn't learnt my lesson). So I'm not sure why he thought I'd put up with it from him...and he is about to find out that I will not, now that I've realised what's going on.

[The Way I Am]

I'm a little late here, because I've been away for a couple days, but snowflakes is 100% dead on.

 

There's nothing wrong with you because this guy is behaving like an *ss. The only thing you did wrong was not show who him with your actions that you know you deserve respect. That's just inexperience. We've all been there.

 

As tempting as it is to now try to make up for letting him get away with not treating you properly by giving him a lecture, it will be futile. His impression of you is already made. Your lecture won't come off as strength. It will come off as needy and desperate. He might pay you lip service and maybe throw you a couple bones so you'll stay around a little longer. It won't make him respect you or treat you right.

 

The best thing you can do is move on and make sure you show the next guy that you don't put up with disrespect.

 

On our first date (which could actually be counted as a date because we met up a cafe) he was so lovely and warm. He gave me many compliments and made it very clear that he was into me and said he never would have never given up trying to get me to meet up with him, no matter how much I said I was busy. We also had a chat about my ex - he brought it up, not me! And he thoroughly disagreed with how my ex treated me and implied that he would/could never do such a thing, and that my ex is incredibly stupid for losing a girl like me.

 

This is right out of the "how to get into a girl's pants" handbook. And it's just words. Empty words.

 

Now that it's been a couple days, how are you doing?

[tinydancer93]

I'm a little late here, because I've been away for a couple days, but snowflakes is 100% dead on.

 

There's nothing wrong with you because this guy is behaving like an *ss. The only thing you did wrong was not show who him with your actions that you know you deserve respect. That's just inexperience. We've all been there.

 

As tempting as it is to now try to make up for letting him get away with not treating you properly by giving him a lecture, it will be futile. His impression of you is already made. Your lecture won't come off as strength. It will come off as needy and desperate. He might pay you lip service and maybe throw you a couple bones so you'll stay around a little longer. It won't make him respect you or treat you right.

 

The best thing you can do is move on and make sure you show the next guy that you don't put up with disrespect.

 

 

 

This is right out of the "how to get into a girl's pants" handbook. And it's just words. Empty words.

 

Now that it's been a couple days, how are you doing?

 

I agree with everything you're saying. Although things are a lot clearer now and I know what to do, I'm not doing so well. My self-esteem has hit an all-time low and I feel like throwing my hands in the air and giving up, either that, or becoming super-cynical when dating -- not believing a word a guy says, and being very reserved in expressing interest. It seems that men heavily pursue me and then as soon as I turn around and express some interest back and let myself get to know them and vice versa, THEY DISAPPEAR. What the hell? Does this just happen to me because I'm only good for "casual" things? Or are all guys just a**holes?

[strongnrelaxed]

I agree with those who say you should walk away. Nowhere in your post did you mention his good qualities or what he brings to the table. Just a critique of what he does NOT do for you.

 

I would leave this man. Not because HE is bad, but because you would post a question like this for such minor infractions. He is likely smart and taking things slowly. Young men have caught onto how creepy women can be. Having all these hidden agendas and expectations, not telling them, and then judging him behind his back (even if only in your mind) for failing you.

 

Leave this poor guy alone. There are other men better suited to your type. He is clearly not a fit for you - nor you for him.

[strongnrelaxed]

I

 

...becoming super-cynical when dating -- not believing a word a guy says, ...THEY DISAPPEAR... are all guys just a**holes?

 

I know these words are out of context, but you did write them. It takes men a few dates or longer to start seeing bad signs in a woman. We all put our best foot forward early on, but when the real you starts emerging, this may scare men away. This is why you are fake with them to begin with - not just you, but millions of young people.

 

Then when they run you are angry and bitter and denigrate an entire gender. Men can see this sort of thing coming from a mile away.

 

The internet has made it easier for men to talk about the realities of modern women and I hate to say this, but it ain't pretty out there.

 

So they keep searching. The upside of the sexual revolution and the advent of free porn is that men do not really need any one woman the way they used to. They realize that society and their own women will discard them in a heartbeat the minute they no longer serve a purpose, so they are free to shop around as long as they like. There is always another women out there who is prettier, more fun, and better in bed. At least for a while. Then the 'real' her starts to emerge and it starts all over again.

 

One thing you might consider it to stop being fake. Be real from day one. You will attract a better mate who knows who you are from the get go.

 

Another thing you might consider is to stop being so self-centered. You do not have to fall all over your man, but if you are a bundle of insecurities and worried about your boobs, or your weight gain, or whatever, you are going to drive any good man away. Only saps, losers and cheaters stay with women who are pathologically insecure.

 

Just some thoughts. I do not know you so toss out any advice that doesn't hit home.

[tinydancer93]

I agree with those who say you should walk away. Nowhere in your post did you mention his good qualities or what he brings to the table. Just a critique of what he does NOT do for you.

 

I would leave this man. Not because HE is bad, but because you would post a question like this for such minor infractions. He is likely smart and taking things slowly. Young men have caught onto how creepy women can be. Having all these hidden agendas and expectations, not telling them, and then judging him behind his back (even if only in your mind) for failing you.

 

Leave this poor guy alone. There are other men better suited to your type. He is clearly not a fit for you - nor you for him.

 

I actually really like him, which is why I've made this thread asking if I should just walk away, otherwise I would have done it already. He has many good qualities - he's affectionate, warm, laid-back, intelligent, interesting, good sense of humour, etc. The thing is, I'm getting very clear signs that he is not interested in taking things any further. I simply cannot invest any more time or emotion into something that is only "casual" (because, from what I am seeing, that's all this is to him).

 

So, do you think it is unreasonable for a woman to want to spend quality time alone with the man she is seeing? Do you think it is unreasonable for her to want to be taken out at least occasionally (not even to fancy places, just out somewhere)? Do you think it is unreasonable for her to be asked at least a day or two in advance to see him, rather than at the very last minute? I travel over on hour on the train to see him and he can't even do me the courtesy of making plans in advance, or offering to come to me rather than me always going to him, or even when I'm there taking me out or spending quality alone time with me (his friends are always around). Tell me, would you act this way towards a woman you liked?

 

I don't think it is unreasonable of me to want these things - all I want is for a man to put in the bare minimum effort to date me. I am not getting this. This tells me that he is not that interested in me, and why would I want to stick around for someone who isn't that into me?

[tinydancer93]

I know these words are out of context, but you did write them. It takes men a few dates or longer to start seeing bad signs in a woman. We all put our best foot forward early on, but when the real you starts emerging, this may scare men away. This is why you are fake with them to begin with - not just you, but millions of young people.

 

Then when they run you are angry and bitter and denigrate an entire gender. Men can see this sort of thing coming from a mile away.

 

The internet has made it easier for men to talk about the realities of modern women and I hate to say this, but it ain't pretty out there.

 

So they keep searching. The upside of the sexual revolution and the advent of free porn is that men do not really need any one woman the way they used to. They realize that society and their own women will discard them in a heartbeat the minute they no longer serve a purpose, so they are free to shop around as long as they like. There is always another women out there who is prettier, more fun, and better in bed. At least for a while. Then the 'real' her starts to emerge and it starts all over again.

 

One thing you might consider it to stop being fake. Be real from day one. You will attract a better mate who knows who you are from the get go.

 

Another thing you might consider is to stop being so self-centered. You do not have to fall all over your man, but if you are a bundle of insecurities and worried about your boobs, or your weight gain, or whatever, you are going to drive any good man away. Only saps, losers and cheaters stay with women who are pathologically insecure.

 

Just some thoughts. I do not know you so toss out any advice that doesn't hit home.

 

You are obviously very bitter towards women. I don't blame you; I don't know what you've been through; I don't judge you. But please, don't push your stereotypes onto me. You don't know me from a bar of soap. I am a very loving, trusting and loyal person and I want more than anything to find someone who I can share this with. But I think my problem is that I am TOO trusting, to the point where I am vulnerable -- and the men I've been with have seen this and take advantage of this. I am hurting right now, I am hurting so badly. For you to come along and judge me and say I am "self-centred" and "being fake" only adds to the hurt. I don't know why you feel the need to attack a complete stranger, but please, be careful with your words.

[The Way I Am]

Sorry you had to put up with those bitter posts. strongnrelaxed is totally wrong and being a jerk.

 

I agree with everything you're saying. Although things are a lot clearer now and I know what to do, I'm not doing so well. My self-esteem has hit an all-time low and I feel like throwing my hands in the air and giving up, either that, or becoming super-cynical when dating -- not believing a word a guy says, and being very reserved in expressing interest. It seems that men heavily pursue me and then as soon as I turn around and express some interest back and let myself get to know them and vice versa, THEY DISAPPEAR. What the hell? Does this just happen to me because I'm only good for "casual" things? Or are all guys just a**holes?

 

I wondered pretty much all these same things about 5+ years ago. I know I said the bolded part at least once. Even worse, I would always end up dating guys who told me about how much they had loved their exes and how great they were. So I felt even sh*tter wondering why I didn't compare to the exes.

 

The answer for me was that I was too eager for a man to love me, and I wasn't skeptical enough of what they said rather than what they did. Not because I wasn't attractive, was self-centered, fake or any of that crap.

 

I'll give you one example. One guy I was dating told me after a couple weeks that I was the kind of woman he could see himself marrying, he wanted to spend all his time with me, etc. I actually believed him despite the fact that the always seemed to be busy, going out with friends without inviting me, etc. I kept trying to make myself available to spend time with him, because that's what he said he wanted. I didn't want to actually spend all my time with him, but it ended up coming off like I was needy, because I was bending over backward trying to make him happy.

 

If you're too lenient too soon and don't set boundaries, men will not take you seriously as a partner. And men who pursue heavily and intensely will often get scared if you decide to give them a chance then throw your whole heart in faster than they do. You have to learn to limit your attachment to only the same level they're showing you. And keep in mind that words mean nothing when they're not backed by actions.