When the alpha female pursues nobody wins!

[travelbug1996]

Wanting a guy to make the first move serves a couple of good purposes. Men are wired for pursuit, so when a guy has to chase after someone he wants, he wants her more, not less. Over time, this clarifies for him how he feels so that he either moves on because he’s not that into her, or he becomes more devoted and in love. The typical guy doesn’t obsess and worry about whether or not she’s into him. Her excitement when he calls and goes to see her, her physical displays of affection, and her emotional availability are more than enough.

Women are wired to love being pursued, so when he chases after you, it affirms your emotional security with him. The flip scenario is when the alpha female makes the first move. That sets her up to wonder how much he is into her, something about which a woman will endlessly obsess with her friends. Over time, that turns into worsening emotional insecurity. Then the clinging behavior starts, that turns him off, and the budding relationship typically crashes and burns.

Remember this: If he’s into you, he will pursue! There are two exceptions to that rule. One is the guy who is so passive (read: insecure) by nature that he will hold back on pursuing hoping that she will take the risk for him by making the first (and second, third, fourth, etc.) move. The problem is that if you’re an alpha female, you will be very dissatisfied with the passive guy a few years down the road when he fails to initate dates or sex.

The other exception is the guy who is so attractive that he has women constantly making the moves so he doesn’t have to. He’s the lazy, cocky guy who is a poor gamble for a relationship. He will expect you to do all the heavy lifting emotionally while he sits back and enjoys it while it’s good, then takes off for greener pastures when you make emotional demands of him.

What works is the good guy who knows what he wants and goes after her. He calls, he asks you out, he pursues wholeheartedly. He’s emotionally available and he wants YOU. Would he initially love it if you made the first move? Probably. But then he wouldn’t. And you would hate it. No one wins when the alpha female pursues.

[Philosoraptor]

When you try to fit everyone into a box nobody wins.

 

Everyone is an individual and unique. Those who accept this fact, and are comfortable being themselves, find it easier to find positive matches in their lives. Those who try to believe any mold is "just how it is" often find themselves confused, frustrated, and even self sabatoge relationships.

 

Just be you and do what feels right and comes natural.

[phineas]

The woman writing the article has no idea about men when it comes to dating in the work place.

 

Men who ask out every co-worker, client, or customer who flirts with them (and some guys have this happen all the time) can end up without a job if someone complains so for instance, women flirt with me outrageously at work.

 

But if we end up going out, it's because they asked.

I refuse to ask.

Too many teases & that flirt hard but aren't actually interested I learned the hard way.

 

so we keep our distance.

Edited September 11, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[todreaminblue]

i agree with the article and i agree with philosoraptor

 

 

 

i do believe that as a a female who has to be strong even when i feel weak and scared crapless i have had some pretty hard knocks...........so ill stand up if i need to....... doesnt make me an alpha female..... i dont like boxes or putting people in boxes.......

 

 

I dont believe in alpha bar god who is alpha omega and everything in between......i am just a woman who has mainly looked after herself who likes a guy who will stand up for what he wants,,,,,,stand up for what he believes in....if

if a guy cant ask me out........or stand up .........then he isnt the right guy for me ....my grandfather told me that one ......

 

guys who are calm and quiet.........to me are the epitome of stand up guys...not cocky but humble they are nto push overs...........they arent alphas either though...they are merely men who know how to be men ......they get things done they dont put up with crap and they are honest with you always they have no need to lie........they also have enough guts to break down.......and yeah cry......they can show their emotions.....

 

i dont approach guys and ask them out never really had to.......but if i feel something strongly enough .......... i have done the kamikaze thing.....it is the most unnatural thing for me to do .......never do i feel more uncomfortable than telling a guy i wan tto get to know them i am nto a flirt so i just come out with i would liek to know you better o ri like you more than a friend.....in fact....thsoe are my two lines.....its all i remember....smilin...not so good....lol...........so when philosoraptor said do what you feel is natural i would 100 per cent agree.......i do respect guys who ask it takes courage.....i admire that quality in men........that is what i naturally look for ....deb

[Revolver]

This only works if you like the guys who are approaching you.

 

If you don't like the guys who approach/ask you out you need to go after those men. If you don't your no different from men who don't go after the girls they really want

[PJKino]

aguy doesn’t obsess and worry about whether or not she’s into him.

s[/i].

 

Yes because as men we have no feelings or emotions were robots who dont care what the women thinks or the outcome as we blindly approach:rolleyes:

 

Lets be honest all this is in the end is an excuse from women so they dont have to be vulnerable and put themeslves out there emotionally and keep her ego from getting damaged and from getting hurt in the begining stages while putting it all on the man..

 

If women would just admit it makes life much easier for them and less stressfull for them instead of hiding behind wiring and what a real man should be and blah blah blah id have more respect for you..

[mikei880]

This OP sounds like something straight out of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.....It sounds like it is encouraging dating from a co-dependant standpoint. That stuff is a 1970's and older dating idea. How are you ever going to get what you want if you refuse to go get it and wait for that person to just come along?

[crude]

This is one of those diatribes where you say something, then twist or insist that all the facts confirm your hypothesis. Just saying it doesn't make it true. Look at the hundreds of millions who played by those rules who got dumped, pumped and dumped, cheated on, slapped around, and just plain disappointed. I wonder how many of those women from the 50's never went after a guy they really liked, but instead sat demurely while some jerk came for them, and they said yes and wound up in an unhappy marriage.

[Keenly]

Makes me face palm when I see stuff like this. This " there is only one way and this is how it is " BS.

 

 

HEY guess what OP. I like being pursued. I'm also passive, but not because I'm insecure. Its because I'm tired of wasting time, effort, money, and energy into girls that don't deserve it.

 

 

So.... that makes you wrong.

[Imajerk17]

Those guys who whine about how "it's not fair" that they have to do the asking don't seem to remember a very key point: If women DID do more of the asking, they wouldn't be asking out THOSE guys. Women would instead be asking out the guys who are more charismatic, better-looking...

 

Those who pursue are the choosers. And the choosers are the ones with the power in the dating world. Everyone else has to take what falls into their lap or just not date. And FWIW, I tell WOMEN who are unhappy with the guys who ask them out this very same thing--that they can keep on waiting (and waiting and waiting) for the guys they are into to ask them out, or they can take matters into their own hands and ask out the guys they are into.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Imajerk17

[ltjg45]

When I think of an "alpha female", I think of a woman who is naturally above-average looking, successful, intelligent, has a strong sex drive, and has her life sorted out.

 

Those women would have the pick of the men since no man who doesn't have some interest in her will turn down the total package especially if she is willing to approach you first. That is the Holy Grail of women right there, esp. in the U.S.

 

So if an "alpha female" can't seduce the 1-2 men she wanted esp. when they are single or just casually dating, I have to question whether or not she is really "alpha" to begin with.

[mammasita]

I don't know.....I tend to scare off alot of men because I'm pretty forward. Not sexually, but just in the "Hey we should grab a drink" type of way.

 

Or maybe I'm just ugly.

[StanMusial]

I would say a valid post. Something to consider as a rule of thumb or guidelines. I can see the disadvantages of women pursuing men. And I know living examples of the men described in the post LOL.

 

Lastly, whoever described alpha female as above average looking has not met the first few women who come to mind for me... these corporate exec types with thunder thighs and thunder mouths. Old and ugly. This is reality vs the movies.

[nescafe1982]

I don't buy the biological determinism of "men are wired to chase, women to be chased." How, for example, does that hold up when OLD sites like OkCupid report that more relationships result from women-contacting-first scenarios? Sure, men write many more messages (and woman write better ones, according to OkC), but still, if ALL men hated being pursued this stat wouldn't hold up.

 

Further: I have friends in relationships where man chases, friends in relationships where woman chases. My BF and I take turns, as relationships are rarely (if ever) 50/50.

 

And finally: what about the emergence of the "ambition gap"? Among educated youth, women are earning more than ever and many of them earning more than their male peers. Relationship dynamics change, and so does the culture of courtship.

 

So I say: whatever floats your boat. However one wants to fall in love is totally acceptable to me.

[StanMusial]

I don't buy the biological determinism of "men are wired to chase, women to be chased." How, for example, does that hold up when OLD sites like OkCupid report that more relationships result from women-contacting-first scenarios? Sure, men write many more messages (and woman write better ones, according to OkC), but still, if ALL men hated being pursued this stat wouldn't hold up.

 

Further: I have friends in relationships where man chases, friends in relationships where woman chases. My BF and I take turns, as relationships are rarely (if ever) 50/50.

 

And finally: what about the emergence of the "ambition gap"? Among educated youth, women are earning more than ever and many of them earning more than their male peers. Relationship dynamics change, and so does the culture of courtship.

 

So I say: whatever floats your boat. However one wants to fall in love is totally acceptable to me.

 

Hmmm. I don't think sending someone an email on OLD constitutes pursuing, not in any real sense. Also, you mentioned "chasing" in the context of a relationship. I don't think that applies really... technically if you're in a relationship then you are already "caught". Lastly, I think the "ambition gap" is only going to force more women to pursue out of desperation as the pool of acceptable suitors dwindles. I doubt many women want more competition for "dateable guys".

[nescafe1982]

Hmmm. I don't think sending someone an email on OLD constitutes pursuing, not in any real sense. Also, you mentioned "chasing" in the context of a relationship. I don't think that applies really... technically if you're in a relationship then you are already "caught". Lastly, I think the "ambition gap" is only going to force more women to pursue out of desperation as the pool of acceptable suitors dwindles. I doubt many women want more competition for "dateable guys".

 

Oh honey, you're not "caught" when the relationship begins. I get what you're saying in this context but getting to the R word is hardly the end of "the chase."

 

What I'm saying is that as women are becoming more ambitious, as they become more powerful in the workplace and more assertive in seeking partners in the context of dating, the "rules" of dating are changing.

 

Indeed, I think much of the upheaval seen on LS about "gender wars," "who pays for what," and the particulars of the chase... this very conversation and the millions of similar ones on the 'net; they are all about the "ambition gap." Women are growing more assertive, men are struggling to recognize their own role in the new interpersonal terrain that asks them to simultaneously be "alpha men" and be "partners." I (obviously) prefer the latter type of men because I am am ambitious and require a man that respects that.

 

It's an interesting time to be a man, I gather.

 

But for the sake of argument: when it comes to the early-stage of meeting and pursuing a new lover, it almost makes more sense for someone like me (an ambitious career woman with a history of dating under-ambitious men who felt threatened by that) to initially pursue a man who has the qualities I want. But by the same token, he must also do some pursuing or else I start to wonder if "he's just not that into me."

 

But these negotiations are not particularly attached to biology. It's (as always) much more complicated than that.

[StanMusial]

Oh honey, you're not "caught" when the relationship begins. I get what you're saying in this context but getting to the R word is hardly the end of "the chase."

 

What I'm saying is that as women are becoming more ambitious, as they become more powerful in the workplace and more assertive in seeking partners in the context of dating, the "rules" of dating are changing.

 

Indeed, I think much of the upheaval seen on LS about "gender wars," "who pays for what," and the particulars of the chase... this very conversation and the millions of similar ones on the 'net; they are all about the "ambition gap." Women are growing more assertive, men are struggling to recognize their own role in the new interpersonal terrain that asks them to simultaneously be "alpha men" and be "partners." I (obviously) prefer the latter type of men because I am am ambitious and require a man that respects that.

 

It's an interesting time to be a man, I gather.

 

But for the sake of argument: when it comes to the early-stage of meeting and pursuing a new lover, it almost makes more sense for someone like me (an ambitious career woman with a history of dating under-ambitious men who felt threatened by that) to initially pursue a man who has the qualities I want. But by the same token, he must also do some pursuing or else I start to wonder if "he's just not that into me."

 

But these negotiations are not particularly attached to biology. It's (as always) much more complicated than that.

 

Good luck!

[GorillaTheater]

Oh honey, you're not "caught" when the relationship begins. I get what you're saying in this context but getting to the R word is hardly the end of "the chase."

 

This is a good point. At the risk of going slightly off-topic, the chase never ever ends (speaking as a guy who's been married almost 30 years).

 

And that's cool. The chase is usually fun, and not the grueling hardship some folks on this thread have painted it as.

[todreaminblue]

This only works if you like the guys who are approaching you.

 

If you don't like the guys who approach/ask you out you need to go after those men. If you don't your no different from men who don't go after the girls they really want

 

As i said if i really really want to know a guy and i feel a certain shyness coming from him...i do ask.....i ask once.....

 

 

not into games of chasies when it comes to dating.......i am different from the men who dont ask....because i am a woman, I am also a bit old fashioned......i dont understand why i should have to have more guts than the guy i date to do the asking.....once a guy i do actually want to date asks me out and i am ready to date......i make it really easy.....i dont play games and say ill think about it make them hang...i just say sure ......a lot of guys who hang back make the woman come to them quite often are playing games...not into it......the only time i have backed out when guys have asked has been online dating because i dont feel comfortable not knowing someone...and they normally become aggressive and demanding...online dating isnt for me.deb

 

 

 

i

[dichotomy]

I don't buy the biological determinism of "men are wired to chase, women to be chased." How, for example, does that hold up when OLD sites like OkCupid report that more relationships result from women-contacting-first scenarios? Sure, men write many more messages (and woman write better ones, according to OkC), but still, if ALL men hated being pursued this stat wouldn't hold up.

 

Further: I have friends in relationships where man chases, friends in relationships where woman chases. My BF and I take turns, as relationships are rarely (if ever) 50/50.

 

And finally: what about the emergence of the "ambition gap"? Among educated youth, women are earning more than ever and many of them earning more than their male peers. Relationship dynamics change, and so does the culture of courtship.

 

So I say: whatever floats your boat. However one wants to fall in love is totally acceptable to me.

 

 

Ok Cupid remainds me of the same conculsion.

 

Its been a while, but when I was on the dating sites - I very shortly stopped sending out requests (icebreakers or whatever they were called), because I got a very low responses. It was not because I was over reaching with hot chicks in my requests However, after I stopped - I started getting contacts for dates from women on the sites I figured that girls of all types were probably bombarded with inquires from tons of men - and probably just decieded they would prefer to do the choosing themselves. It worked and i was open to having coffee or a drink with most of the ones who contacted me.

 

In the "real world" my pursuit of gals usually did not work out well, either I got shot down, or the gal and I would date for a while and it would not work out. On the other hand, when the gals approached me,and I accepted, it seemed to work out for the better. In fact one of the best realtionships I had was from a gal that pursued me for months till I gave in. She actually changed what I found attactive in a gal from them on. Perhaps women are better at deciding wether I would be a good match for them and they for me ....then I did !

[ChessPieceFace]

Glad to know you have it all figured out. It's good people aren't actually individuals, since that might have derailed your massive generalizations.

[todreaminblue]

You might think it's fun. But not all men think it is.

 

Men also want to feel like they are desired and wanted by their partner, and if the man always has to "chase" his girlfriend then he won't get to feel like she actually desires him as much.

 

 

i think continually chasing would get a bit old.....but i dont class asking a woman for a date chasing her......you ask ....its a no or yes....no chasing....and i have desired guys who have asked me out...i desire to date them .... i make them feel desired once i am dating them not before.....i am not a flirt though who can just flirt with a guy i am not dating...lol.....it comes across pretty goofy....stoooopid.....hahaha....ahem........so i dont even try to flirt.....awkward......deb

[StanMusial]

i think continually chasing would get a bit old.....but i dont class asking a woman for a date chasing her......you ask ....its a no or yes....no chasing....and i have desired guys who have asked me out...i desire to date them .... i make them feel desired once i am dating them not before.....i am not a flirt though who can just flirt with a guy i am not dating...lol.....it comes across pretty goofy....stoooopid.....hahaha....ahem........so i dont even try to flirt.....awkward......deb

 

I remember seeing another thread on the continuous chasing topic... I don't think that's what the intent of OP was... he led off with the phrase "first move". Que sera sera LOL

[nescafe1982]

Something that does make me wonder, though. For men who do the chasing (and like it that way): at what point does chasing go from "part of the game" to running after lost causes? I mean, there seems no hard-and-fast line of when to let her get away. (I'm an outsider looking in here, though... most women are highly skilled in "when to let him go" ideas).

 

I bet that generates a lot of frustration. So much frustration that I can totally see how "the chase" becomes a burdensome and unenjoyable part of dating. I guess I'll stick to "in a relationship chasing," where he always lets me catch him at the end.

[salparadise]

...at what point does chasing go from "part of the game" to running after lost causes?[/Quote]

 

I'm definitely not the stereotypical chaser that this thread is about, but... there is a feedback loop through which nonverbal signals keeps one informed as to whether a woman desires the attention and is engaged in the dance. When those signals turn negative, cold or flat you're done.

 

...most women are highly skilled in "when to let him go" ideas.

 

Eh, some people––men and women––are inherently attuned to nuance, perceiving the subtleties of social interaction and understanding other's feelings and motivations. This is a marvelous gift to have been born with (wish I had it). For these people such matters are intuitive, they just know.

 

I bet that generates a lot of frustration. So much frustration that I can totally see how "the chase" becomes a burdensome and unenjoyable part of dating.

 

Of course it does. I've had it happen and it's awfully disappointing. Of course I wouldn't have been engaging in the first place had she not encouraged it, so when you get your enthusiasm and hopes up and then she either just quits, starts shagging someone else, or you realize that she's merely an attention whore, it's demoralizing in multiple ways.

 

I prefer to think of it as the dance rather than the chase. It takes two to dance, and the steps are highly variable and amazingly intricate. A man who chases rather than dances is like a bull in a china shop. Interesting women will invite you to dance, and then they dance with you. There are those, however, who make eyes at you from across the room but when you go over and ask them to dance they turn you down flat, and some even make a spectacle of it. They're sadly broken. A sensitive, intuitive man learns to spot these and save himself the humiliation.

 

Trying to condense the parameters of human behavior down to a few simple concepts is folly. It's more variable and complex than most people have language skills to convey. I guess it's the nature of these forums to think in terms of single serving paradigms.