Has it worked out for ANYONE?

[glowing]

Yes, it worked out for my husband and I.

 

I feel like I have the same response to these questions here, so feel free to read through my prior posts.

 

[brittanyanderson]

For those of you who it did work out for, can you describe your relationships in a little more detail? Were they married? How long were you together before he/she finally left the spouse? etc

[MissBee]

From what I've seen other forums which are less anti-affair have a much higher rate of EMRs working out. Not surprising really, that if you get support while in the affair rather than support to leave the affair the chance of the EMR becoming a regular relationship out in the open is higher.

 

I doubt this.

 

Mainly because it's not in the hands of the OW if it works out or not, but in the hands of the married person if they choose to leave or not. Most affair forums I've seen have way more OW/OM than they have WSs seeking advice.

 

If less MP are on forums about their affair...then it doesn't matter how much support the OW/OM gets to stay in their affair, as that has little effect on if the MP chooses to leave or not. Unless the advice is that the more an OW/OM stays and waits the more likely they will be rewarded for their loyalty....

 

What I've witnessed is that those MPs who wanted to leave do and it wasn't contingent upon the OW/OM waiting and it didn't take years and years and years of waiting.

[glowing]

For those of you who it did work out for, can you describe your relationships in a little more detail? Were they married? How long were you together before he/she finally left the spouse? etc

 

I think every situation is so very different, but I'll share our situation:

 

We were both married. My exH and I were separated and going through the divorce process, he and his ex had struggled for years with problems.

 

We were together two years before his divorce was final, but they were separated and on again/off again even before we met/began our relationship.

 

He didn't leave her and move in with me, or even have a current relationship with me when he moved out and went through with his divorce. He focused on doing it on his own, for the right reasons. After several months of IC for both of us we began to officially date, and the rest is history

[cocorico]

For those of you who it did work out for, can you describe your relationships in a little more detail? Were they married? How long were you together before he/she finally left the spouse? etc

 

They were M, for about 30 years. We were together about 3 - 3.5 years before he left her.

[SunsetRed]

Why didn't he involve the courts? If she behaved like this, the courts would have sorted it out and it would have impacted her ability to have custody of them. Judges do not look favorably on parents who use their children as tools for manipulation.

 

It's not just a "he said, she said" scenario either when children are involved. A guardian ad litem could be appointed for the children, and the courts have child witness interviewers who are trained to (a) distinguish when young children are lying or telling the truth, and (b) get young children to tell the truth even when they have been threatened or scared into not telling.

 

I don't mean to offend you or be snide, but I honestly don't understand situations where the WS alleges that the BS is mentally unstable, manipulating the kids, and other horrible things and yet still leaves his children with her. He may or may not win full custody in court, but he should at least try to challenge the arrangement for the sake of his children.

 

I don't have kids, but, if I was a mother, I would do whatever I could to protect my children, even if it meant spending my life savings to hire a top-notch lawyer or even breaking the law. Psychological harm is just as bad as physical harm, and I would never let anyone mess with my kids.

 

you brought up a good point..."why didn't he involve the courts?" my xmm could've and should've involved the courts with the irrational, narcissistic manner in which the wife used alimony and child support payments. This occurred while they were actually separated. He chose not to involve the courts and simply went back when she said the house was about to be repossessed. Once he went back, she continued to make outrageous financial demands on him and each time he tried to leave, it got worse.

 

Yet, bottom line is, he didn't involve the courts because he didn't want to.

A lawyer would make her play fair, being that he'd put her through college, offered alimony, to pay the mortgage, bought her a new car..and yet she wouldn't work or lift a finger towards her self care and made more demands. I wondered if she was black mailing him, but what difference does it make if she is. He still chose to be there and chose not to be with me.

 

So, I let him go. If he wants to live in the garage, drive his moped to work while her unemployed self rides around in a brand new jeep, then that's his life to live, not mine.

 

Not sure whats in store for mine yet, but I plan to make it all good.

[Journee]

My mother and father have been together almost 30 years. It was my father's 4th marriage. He cheated on every single woman he has ever been with. He met my mother while separated from his 3rd wife. His 3rd wife was not happy to learn about my mother and I even remember us having to change our home phone number because she would call so much. My father then went on to cheat on my mother throughout their marriage. Turns out it was not all of his ex wives that had the problem. It was him.

 

He seems to finally have wrestled his demons through MC ,IC and from facing his substance abuse issue head on. He had to really look at what caused his behavior and need to self medicate. He has been sober for several years with my mom right by his side. She attends his open AA meetings and also Alanon for herself.

 

It was a very hard road for both of them and my mother became a BS several times over. My father was a MM with OW for many years. He never left my mother. He just bumped his head enough to learn to stop. I'm just glad he is alive and sober.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Journee

[brittanyanderson]

I guess if you take this kind of un-agentic view on life, then your fate will always be in the hands of others. I'm of the opposite view, that I'm in control of my life, and that includes my Rs. I certainly did not sit back and leave it up to him to decide whether to choose me or his xW, and if I had, we may well still be in limbo. I guess that might be the difference between those whose Rs work out, and those whose don't?

 

great point

you mentioned you guys were together for about 3.5 years though before he left her. If you didn't sit back and leave it up to him to decide, why did it take so long? were there financial issues, or kids involved? or was he just stubborn and scared to leave the M?

 

sorry for so many questions, i'm always so curious thanks!

[bentleychic]

great point

you mentioned you guys were together for about 3.5 years though before he left her. If you didn't sit back and leave it up to him to decide, why did it take so long? were there financial issues, or kids involved? or was he just stubborn and scared to leave the M?

 

sorry for so many questions, i'm always so curious thanks!

I'm curious about that, too, actually. Just wasn't sure how to word it.

[brittanyanderson]

My mother and father have been together almost 30 years. It was my father's 4th marriage. He cheated on every single woman he has ever been with. He met my mother while separated from his 3rd wife. His 3rd wife was not happy to learn about my mother and I even remember us having to change our home phone number because she would call so much. My father then went on to cheat on my mother throughout their marriage. Turns out it was not all of his ex wives that had the problem. It was him.

 

He seems to finally have wrestled his demons through MC ,IC and from facing his substance abuse issue head on. He had to really look at what caused his behavior and need to self medicate. He has been sober for several years with my mom right by his side. She attends his open AA meetings and also Alanon for herself.

 

It was a very hard road for both of them and my mother became a BS several times over. My father was a MM with OW for many years. He never left my mother. He just bumped his head enough to learn to stop. I'm just glad he is alive and sober.

 

wow such an interesting story you have! I'm so happy for you that your dad is sober! I 100% believe that people who cheat (especially serial cheaters) have some serious issues deep within them that they are suppressing. either with a lot of relationships/sex or substance abuse or both. so I'm glad your dad went to MC

 

Does your mother enjoy the Alanon meetings? Does it help her?

My partner is a drug addict and its a huge reason why he won't leave his significant other. they use together.

[Journee]

wow such an interesting story you have! I'm so happy for you that your dad is sober! I 100% believe that people who cheat (especially serial cheaters) have some serious issues deep within them that they are suppressing. either with a lot of relationships/sex or substance abuse or both. so I'm glad your dad went to MC

 

Does your mother enjoy the Alanon meetings? Does it help her?

My partner is a drug addict and its a huge reason why he won't leave his significant other. they use together.

 

 

Thank you. That is why I can't look at A's as all black and white because of witnessing certain things in my life. I don't believe people are lost causes or all good and all bad. My father is a good man he was just on very , very dark path.

 

Another reason why I can't just turn away from my own WH. He has never dealt with the awful things he has been through. He won't acknowledge any of it. Refuses to deal. Finds terrible ways to cope.

 

My mother really needed the support she gets from Alanon. Her first husband is an alcoholic and my oldest sister was also. She literally drank herself to death a month before she turned 30. My mother blamed herself for so much. She was surrounded by addiction. You know sadly one of my dad's AP's and he drank together , they smoked weed together. She even introduced him to Meth. It was the craziest time in my whole life at that time. My father was a high functioning addict. Had the same job for over twenty years until his retirement. Multiple promotions and success. He just never felt good enough. Not for anything. He never had children until he met my mother and they adopted me. He saved me but still never felt worthy. He was hell bent on ruining his entire life but my mother would not give up on him. She could not.

 

I really feel for you because the codependency that exists between two addicts is solid. It's scary and toxic and I really hope that all of the folks in your situation get some help. Their lives will be so much more meaningful. My father likens it to walking around in the dark just feeling his way through. Then he finds the light switch and takes a chance to see what will happen. His light came on and he sees life in a whole new way.

 

I wish you all health in what sounds to be very complicated and painful.

[SunsetRed]

I have a friend who was OW and now is a Wife. It was a long and Winding road. He left her many times to come back to BS but she was determined. or there was a case his BS came to OW's flat and moved him out. He also left her for 4 months until he ultimately came back during which she had 2 suicidal attempts. She says it was worth it. I gave up before I lost my senses.

 

 

Wow, so NOT worth it. And that happens a lot when the OW thinks she's "getting" her man. She may get him for a while, but many times he ends up right back w the BS. God help the OW if she decides to live w him before the divorce is final.

[Got it]

For us it has worked out. I don't use the term of "ended up" as there weren't passive decisions and outcomes laying out.

 

We were both married, I left a few weeks in, he left little over a year later, we were broken up for a few months after a dday, got back together at separation, lived together, he got his own place, then moved so we were LD and then we lived together, bought a house and then married recently this year.

[MissBee]

I guess if you take this kind of un-agentic view on life, then your fate will always be in the hands of others. I'm of the opposite view, that I'm in control of my life, and that includes my Rs. I certainly did not sit back and leave it up to him to decide whether to choose me or his xW, and if I had, we may well still be in limbo. I guess that might be the difference between those whose Rs work out, and those whose don't?

 

Ending up with the MP in the end is what the question is about right?

 

Logically, this implies the married person stops being married. The OW/OM has limited to no control over that, unless they put a hit out on the spouse or file forged divorce papers for the MP or something proactive like that. Otherwise, one's agency is circumscribed to just one's own life and choices and you don't get to make the decision about the marriage of the MP. The MP and the OW/OM do not have equal amounts of power to change the relationship to open, the MP is the one with the control over that. That said, I stand by what I said about Anna-Belle's assertion. On affair forums that I've seen, it tends to be a surplus of OW and not as many WSs. If logically WSs are the ones in control of whether they stay married, and thus end up with the OW/OM in the end, then supportive affair forums where it's mostly OW/OM being supported (and not WSs) provide little convincing evidence that their affairs work out better because of the support, since they're not the ones in charge of the decision to stay married or not. Unless, as I said, AB is suggesting that when OW are supported to stay in the affair and cope with it, the encouragement to stay and work it out and the length of added time increases the chance that the MP will eventually reward them based on time invested or something.

 

Ironically enough, many MP's agency seems to only extend as far as choosing an affair, but then they position themselves as helpless to make other choices..even as you just said, had it not been for you, your MM and you would have remained in limbo.

Edited September 14, 2013 by MissBee

[velvette]

I read through these sometimes- I am now sitting here wondering if it ever ends up the way we wanted? Has anyone ended up happy with their MM in the end? Or, are they all bad investments?

 

My H and I started our R as an A and we have been together over 20 years. He left his M after 3 or 4 months and was D a year later.

 

We have been mostly happy and are very happy now; however, our M has had serious issues such as his serial cheating, past sexual abuse and his anger management issues/abusiveness. Long story short lots of issues we've had to work through and we did separate for a couple of years because of this.

 

My advice to would be as follows:

 

1. Better not to start your R as an A.

 

2. Recognize that cheating is a dysfunctional solution to whatever ails MM. That dysfunction will be coming with him into any R he has with you unless he recognizes and resolves it with professional help.

 

3. Recognize you probably has some dysfunction yourself to be in an A. Water seeks its own level. Those issues will collide with his.

 

4. If you're already in an A, decide on your timeline for it going forward as an open R.....i.e. how long you are willing to be the OW.......and make it clear you have a timeline.

[WrinkledForehead]

My H and I started our R as an A and we have been together over 20 years. He left his M after 3 or 4 months and was D a year later.

 

We have been mostly happy and are very happy now; however, our M has had serious issues such as his serial cheating, past sexual abuse and his anger management issues/abusiveness. Long story short lots of issues we've had to work through and we did separate for a couple of years because of this.

 

My advice to would be as follows:

 

1. Better not to start your R as an A.

 

2. Recognize that cheating is a dysfunctional solution to whatever ails MM. That dysfunction will be coming with him into any R he has with you unless he recognizes and resolves it with professional help.

 

3. Recognize you probably has some dysfunction yourself to be in an A. Water seeks its own level. Those issues will collide with his.

 

4. If you're already in an A, decide on your timeline for it going forward as an open R.....i.e. how long you are willing to be the OW.......and make it clear you have a timeline.

 

 

Sage advice.

 

We've been together for 6 months now. He is in the process of leaving BS. Yes, it is taking time. Yes, he is still leaving her. It won't happen for a few weeks more (giant sighs) as he is currently out of the country (without her). He is using this time to forgive himself, find support from his familial units, and to find some inner peace.

 

I appreciated the part about seeking out and recognizing our personal failings as human beings and working on them. He has paid close attention to where their R went wrong, and the reasons he cheated. I have recognized some of my insecurities. He is in IC as he works through this, and I'm currently seeking out my own therapist. We've also both agreed to counseling together as a couple to focus on anything that we may struggle with during the upcoming months. Our own honesty and open communication is one extremely healthy aspect of our R. We continue to work together as a team to find our peace, our future with each other.

[cocorico]

Wow, so NOT worth it. And that happens a lot when the OW thinks she's "getting" her man. She may get him for a while, but many times he ends up right back w the BS. God help the OW if she decides to live w him before the divorce is final.

 

We lived together before the D was final. If anything, it helped convince him of the rightness of his decision to leave her, seeing what a real loving R should be like.

[cocorico]

great point

you mentioned you guys were together for about 3.5 years though before he left her. If you didn't sit back and leave it up to him to decide, why did it take so long? were there financial issues, or kids involved? or was he just stubborn and scared to leave the M?

 

sorry for so many questions, i'm always so curious thanks!

 

Initially, we were both happy with "just" an A. I had too much going on in my life to want him full-time, and he'd been through a previous separation from her which had been very traumatic for the kids, so he wanted to spare them a repeat of that.

 

Then, things changed. We found ourselves wanting to be together full-time, and we examined ways in which that could be possible, and set about putting our plans into action. His kids were older, by then, had seen enough of the failed "reconciliation" to know that together wasn't better than apart, and had started their own romantic lives and so discussed matters of the heart with him and had some understanding of such things. I was at a point where I could, and would, make big changes in my life in one way or another, and I gave him the choice to be part of that or not.

 

There were financial issues, and kids, but nothing insurmountable. Also, he had the support of friends and family, so fears about the impact of the split on the kids were contained in a supportive environment.

[Summer Breeze]

I read through these sometimes- I am now sitting here wondering if it ever ends up the way we wanted? Has anyone ended up happy with their MM in the end? Or, are they all bad investments?

 

I'm now very happily with DMM. All through it, it was ending up the way I wanted it. I was happy in the A for a while and when I wasn't I told him and asked him to leave home. He said no and I said goodbye. I did what I wanted and he did too. I had a good life while we were apart and I would have carried on having a good life if he hadn't have come back to me. But I was happy when he did and now I'm happy that we're together. If either of us aren't happy then we have choices to make. I don't want him staying with me if he isn't happy and I won't stay with him if I end up not happy in the situation.

 

I agree with cocorico's point. I know they are the only ones who could make the decisions about the M surviving or not but I made the decision to not stay and inadvertently support him in his state of flux. We didn't initially end up happy together but I ended up happy without him and that was what mattered. Were they happy? I don't know for sure but he D her so I'm assuming at the very least he wasn't happy. I couldn't control what they did at all but I maintained full control of myself.

[MissBee]

I'm now very happily with DMM. All through it, it was ending up the way I wanted it. I was happy in the A for a while and when I wasn't I told him and asked him to leave home. He said no and I said goodbye. I did what I wanted and he did too. I had a good life while we were apart and I would have carried on having a good life if he hadn't have come back to me. But I was happy when he did and now I'm happy that we're together. If either of us aren't happy then we have choices to make. I don't want him staying with me if he isn't happy and I won't stay with him if I end up not happy in the situation.

 

I agree with cocorico's point. I know they are the only ones who could make the decisions about the M surviving or not but I made the decision to not stay and inadvertently support him in his state of flux. We didn't initially end up happy together but I ended up happy without him and that was what mattered. Were they happy? I don't know for sure but he D her so I'm assuming at the very least he wasn't happy. I couldn't control what they did at all but I maintained full control of myself.

 

I would agree with your point too, which wasn't what cocorico seemed to be arguing initially, as her response was negating mine that the MP is in more control over it working out, if working out in the context of the question means leaving the M and transitioning the A into an open R.

 

I think an OW always has choices and enacting agency can mean choosing to no longer be in the A (which seemed to be discounted and somehow it "working out" seems to be set up as this thing that the OW "made" happen through her agency, which isn't true and IMO not something any OW should place on her shoulders) and that was my personal choice as well. I couldn't make him do anything he didn't want to do so I could only do as I needed to for myself. All the support in the world for ME by my friends or anyone else wouldn't have made him choose anything other than what he wanted to choose.

 

I think BSs shouldn't blame themselves for their spouse's free choice to have an A, likewise an OW shouldn't blame herself or make the burden hers to get the MP to leave or think it's any fault of hers if he doesn't. What I have always liked about your approach (as well as Got It's) is that you seem to have a clear understanding of what cards you have and the extent to which you can choose and control certain things for yourself, and where you can't and its the other person's realm. I think OW and BSs should accept responsibility where its reasonable and control for what you can, but realize that the MP/WS also has his own choice independent of what you choose and therefore it's not for you to beat yourself up (or congratulate yourself) if it works or doesn't work out as you'd have hoped...as it wasn't a unilateral decision based solely on your merit or lack thereof.

Edited September 20, 2013 by MissBee

[Anna-Belle]

If an OW gets true support it will affect her MM. It's like rings on the water or the butterfly effect, human beings affect each other. Or like the Serenity Prayer, change the things I can, ie myself, and change will happen around me.

 

I learned so much about the dynamics of EMRs through participating on forums, this fueled the discussions my MM and I had. He learned too. On Dday he stood firm. He knew what to expect. He knew the pitfalls. He stood strong and declared his love to me.

 

During the EMR our relationship was calmer and stronger because we could distinguish which were our personal issues and which were simply the dynamics of an EMR. By me having the network of supportive OW/OM/MP they could point me in the right direction when we were having issues. My MM has been very grateful I've had such a network.

 

I came to forums looking for support for being in an EMR, not for leaving it, and I found that support. Presently we are going through the transition phase from EMR to relationship out in the open and the support I receive is still invaluable. Sharing with others who have been there, done that is invaluable.

 

So yes, I firmly believe that with true support more MM will leave their marriage and the EMR will be transformed into a relationship out in the open.

[MissBee]

If an OW gets true support it will affect her MM. It's like rings on the water or the butterfly effect, human beings affect each other. Or like the Serenity Prayer, change the things I can, ie myself, and change will happen around me.

 

I learned so much about the dynamics of EMRs through participating on forums, this fueled the discussions my MM and I had. He learned too. On Dday he stood firm. He knew what to expect. He knew the pitfalls. He stood strong and declared his love to me.

 

During the EMR our relationship was calmer and stronger because we could distinguish which were our personal issues and which were simply the dynamics of an EMR. By me having the network of supportive OW/OM/MP they could point me in the right direction when we were having issues. My MM has been very grateful I've had such a network.

 

I came to forums looking for support for being in an EMR, not for leaving it, and I found that support. Presently we are going through the transition phase from EMR to relationship out in the open and the support I receive is still invaluable. Sharing with others who have been there, done that is invaluable.

 

So yes, I firmly believe that with true support more MM will leave their marriage and the EMR will be transformed into a relationship out in the open.

 

And I can't say you shouldn't believe it, but I haven't seen it play out that way personally in any kind of significant way.

 

It seems all "true support" does is enable an OW to be a years-long OW and cope with this reality, not actually expedite a transition or facilitate one at all. Most of the transition to open R cases I've seen on LS and elsewhere seemed to be where the MM was planning to leave anyway and it took less than 3 years or it happened after the OW moved on and stopped being in the affair, and it wasn't because of anything the OW did or didn't do or how much support she did or didn't get, as the leaving wasn't "for" her or because of her, but because they felt finished with their marriages. The rest...it's just been support to continue being an OW indefinitely.

 

I also just can't really buy this ever-present notion that the MM is always some crippled person who needs everyone else's influence to change...where of course he can't decide on his own but his OW needs all this support and then her support will vicariously nurture him into changing. I just look at that like omg..are you kidding?!

 

So we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

[Got it]

And I can't say you shouldn't believe it, but I haven't seen it play out that way personally in any kind of significant way.

 

It seems all "true support" does is enable an OW to be a years-long OW and cope with this reality, not actually expedite a transition or facilitate one at all. Most of the transition to open R cases I've seen on LS and elsewhere seemed to be where the MM was planning to leave anyway and it took less than 3 years or it happened after the OW moved on and stopped being in the affair, and it wasn't because of anything the OW did or didn't do or how much support she did or didn't get, as the leaving wasn't "for" her or because of her, but because they felt finished with their marriages. The rest...it's just been support to continue being an OW indefinitely.

 

I also just can't really buy this ever-present notion that the MM is always some crippled person who needs everyone else's influence to change...where of course he can't decide on his own but his OW needs all this support and then her support will vicariously nurture him into changing. I just look at that like omg..are you kidding?!

 

So we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

Actually no, another site I was a member of showed many OP who were with the MP for years and they moved to S/D. Usually it was tied to the youngest child becoming an adult but the 1 year rule or as you are stating the 3 year didn't always suss out. That surprised me but I was surprised by some very LTA that moved forward.

 

Like all dating relationships the numbers don't tend to err on moving forward but there were far more LTA than I assumed back in my early days.

 

I don't know how much it had to do with the OP but there was some duration of time.

[Miss.Misunderstood]

My ending is a happy one. We were together secretly for a year and half... The wife knew but she wouldn't leave and made us really fight for each other. We're about to hit our 3 yr anniversary... 1 and a half years, he's divorced and completely public, living together and madly in love!