Forgiveness...what is it? really...

[Confusion_Reigns]

What is it? What does it really feel like, look like? How does one know if they’ve *truly* forgiven someone? How does one forgive?

 

I think I’ve run myself into a brick wall with this one. I believe I have forgiven those who have hurt me in the past…I thought I did…but I think I haven’t. How can I be this confused?!?! This should be easy…well, easier than I’m making it…to know inside my bones that I truly have forgiven….but it’s not…it seems I think I have and then realize I haven’t.

 

I have three big ones that need forgiving and I am working towards that now but its so very hard….for me to understand…to know…how to forgive them, why I forgive them, and what I’m truly forgiving them for…and then there’s myself…and my own self-forgiveness…which is even more confusing...

 

So, can anyone out there tell me what it feels like to forgive? What it means to forgive? How to forgive?

[Philosoraptor]

When you think of the past hurts it doesn't hurt anymore, doesn't matter at all really anymore. Forgiveness is like freeing yourself from your own mental chains. Those negative thoughts are all gone.

 

Self forgiveness is more important, as you can't truly let go of the pain until you've accepted and forgiven yourself for any mistakes you made in the past. Living without regret is a hard task, but very calming once you've found that path for yourself.

[Confusion_Reigns]

sorry...

 

but when you say you think back on the past hurts and they don't hurt....what about people who have 'toughened up' to the point of non-feeling about much of anything?

 

Self forgiveness is more important, as you can't truly let go of the pain until you've accepted and forgiven yourself for any mistakes you made in the past.

 

and this seems like the hardest part of all...how does one forgive themselves?

 

thank you for your reply & your thoughts...

[Philosoraptor]

sorry...

 

but when you say you think back on the past hurts and they don't hurt....what about people who have 'toughened up' to the point of non-feeling about much of anything?

Hardening up isn't forgiving, it's just finding a way to numb yourself to the pain. Too many people harden themselves up after a bad relationship and turn into cold buttholes who are unable to function in a healthy relationship in the future.

 

 

and this seems like the hardest part of all...how does one forgive themselves?

 

thank you for your reply & your thoughts...

You have to accept responsibility for anything you did wrong and vow to make better choices in the future. Understand that the past can never be changed, so beating yourself up over it won't do you any good. What you can control is the present, so use that to make better choices for yourself and those around you.

[mea_M]

Confusion, My thinking on this topic is much inline with that of Philo. Accepting, responsibility for any wrongs IMO would be the first step. Hardening up does not solve the problem it only pushes it aside while negative feelings continue to fester. So, by owning up to our personal shortcomings, we are allowing ourselves the freedom to fully accept who we are and to love ourself at the same time. I will be honest, I'm not 100 % there on this topic in every aspect of my life. But, little by little baby steps and taking it one day at a time certainly helps. Great question btw. You can get there. Take it slow if you must and dig deep. Even if digging deep is a bit uncomfortable it allows a person to gain a great deal of clarity. My best to you.

 

Mea :-)

Edited September 10, 2013 by mea_M

[Confusion_Reigns]

No thoughts of revenge. I know it’d do no good and it’d hurt me more than anyone else. I think of ‘revenge’ like willingly giving away my own power…my power to be happy, content, at peace inside myself. See, I guess this is where I’m trying to get to, true inner peace…or something close to it.

 

Since this is an anonymous forum I’m going to share my three big ones that need forgiving.

 

1. My Mom. I’ve always thought I’d forgiven her along time ago but maybe not. This is a crazy one, really…she’s my mom, she basically left the family for another man, she gave up all rights to me and my brother and we grew up with our dad (who was a truly great man and father), I never saw her and rarely heard from her. No Christmas presents, no birthday cards, when I almost died as a child she was there once to see me…my dad was there the entire time I was in the hospital (6 mo’s). She’s trying to come back in my life and I’m trying to let her back in. She says negative things about my dad to me now to justify her actions of long ago. I don’t believe her. I think that if she wouldn’t say such bad stuff about my dad I might be able to let her in a bit more.

 

2. I was raped when I was in high school. The guy is my older brothers best friend and he (the guy) is a very prominent political figure in our small community now. I’m in a position where I need to deal with him(not on a daily basis but enough to make my skin crawl). This one’s tricky for me in my mind. I don’t know how to forgive him for what he did. I don’t know how to forgive myself for letting myself get into that situation. I *know* that it wasn’t my fault…but I’m a firm believer in taking responsibility for your actions…my actions led me to this place…I made bad choices and that’s what happened. I trusted when I shouldn’t have….and it just keeps getting deeper and deeper in a downward spiral…

 

3. My husband. I love him but not really. He’s hurt me so much in the past…and I let it all happen…and now he tries to not hurt me but…he doesn’t know how to not hurt me…I guess…idk…what I do know is that his words say he loves me, most of his actions say he loves me…but something…idk…something says he doesn’t really love me…it’s more like he wants to own me…idk I thought I forgave him, I thought I could forgive him…but how can I keep forgiving him for the same things over and over…that’s not really forgiveness.

 

And I am the common denominator in all of these situations…how do I forgive myself?

 

I can tell you that I am not a punisher, I’m not one who’s hard to get along with or to live with, I don’t hold grudges…mostly I let it all go…because I know that mostly when others are upset for whatever reason it’s not really about me so I try not to take things too personally. Plus, I just don't want to keep all that negativity in myself.

 

I feel like I’m on the brink of understanding…just peeking over the edge…

[mea_M]

Confusion, I love your above post because you really shared a good picture of all your dealing with. All three scenerios I'm sure have caused you some level of internal pain and guilt. You did mention that you are the common denominater with all this. How do you forgive yourself? Let it go. Let it go little by little. One thing that helped me was I learned how to meditate. At first I honestly laughed. Ok. There is no way can I sit in silence and free my mind. But, like most things in life, practice is key. Seriously, once I got the hang of meditation oh boy what a release it was for me. That is just one suggestion for you. The other would be a therapist you trust and feel free to speak with. The ball is in your court and I just know you will get it rolling to find peace. Important to remember this won't happen overnight. Its a process. A thought changing one.

 

Mea:)

[Heart of the Desert]

Often times we have trouble letting go of resentments because of our own inability to act upon what we know is right for ourselves or others. While I agree with mea_M that mediation is a powerfull tool for self observation and emotional release, there are somethings in life that require action. In all three scenarios you listed three people with whom you must currently interct. Three peopl with you have had disharmony ranging from feeling of emotional aboadonment to outright abuse. It seems from what you have written that in all three scenarios you silently suffer telling your self that you must simply forgive. You will not be able to forgive until you act, not out of revenge, but out of the goodness of your soul. It requires great courage. The actions are intended to clear space within your self for forgiveness to take root.

These are just suggested actions. It is through your own self understanding that you will know what steps to take.

 

Have you stood up for your father when your mother speaks ill of him? Letting her know that you lover her but that you love your father as well and cannot let her put him down as such? Have you told her you don't believe her and that you think she is just justifying her actions, and when she acts this way it pushes you away?

 

Rape survival is very difficult and I am sorry this has happened to you. Therapy can help an I suggest seeking it out. To know your assailent and have to deal with them on a regular basis has got to be deeply painful. It seems as though you blame yourself to some extent for what happened. Nothing you did gives this man the right to do what he did. You are not to blame for trusting someone, even if they severly betrayed that trust. Does he even deserve your forgivness? Not that you need to get revenge or hold on to negative patterns, but do you really need to forgive him? perhaps it would bear more healing to allow your self to be angry at him? Once again, not holding on to anger but simply allowing it. Anger can be healthy. You might find compassion for him, but why must you forgive him? Other than seeking help I cannot suggest a path of action towards your healing on this one but my heart goes out to you.

 

How can you stand up to your husband and change the dynamics of your relationship? You no longer have to accept his abuses. Sometimes forgiveness starts with with taking our power back when we have so generously given it away. Once you and your husband find a way to heal your bond, or perhaps move on, forgivnes will come more naturaly

 

Once again these are only suggestions, you know the answers

This is not about punishing but standing up for yourself. The intention is not to hurt the other person but for all parties involved to find some healing, or at least for cycles of abuse to stop. You can only forgive yourself once you have change the behaviour you have which contributes to the patern. Kind of hard for me to forgive myself for smoking cigaretts when I still smoke two packs a day, right? but once I have quite smoking I can find it in myself to forgive myself for hurting my body like that.

Forgiveness is like a rare pearl. In a world so unforgiving it is one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves and others. Sometimes we must work tirlessly to find it. Diving deep within the oceanic depths to find a single oyster. We bloody our fingers on its jagged shell finaly cracking it open to discover the glowing beauty inside. Other times it comes to us unexpectedly. Walking along the beach, a wave drops an oyster at our feet, we ask it once if it would share its gifts, it kindly obliges. How rare! how Beautiful!

 

Stay strong. You will find it within yourself to forgive.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Heart of the Desert

[ellowmay]

"Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that crushed it."

 

I struggle with this too but I think forgiveness happens when you can honestly think about or talk to someone that has hurt you without being angry at all. When you are truly out of spite, ire, and you once again feel neutral.

[ellowmay]

Also for your situations

 

1) forgiving is not forgetting. You can have a good relationship with your mom if you keep appropriate distance and you focus on future positive outcomes. You will probably have to hash out your pain over your childhood yourself or with her, but once you let that go you're golden.

Easier said than done.

 

2) if it were me I would out that son of a bitch. But that's me.

 

3) again, forgiving is not forgetting. If you value your relationship and still want to work on it then by all means. But if you cannot truly forgive him and focus on a positive future, the damage will rmain permanent and the hurt will repeat itself. You have to be proactive in breaking bad habits in relationships or they fall into disrepair and eventually ruin.

 

Luck.

[Confusion_Reigns]

the more I think on these three things the more it seems that they are all intertwined inside of me and all have a root in my present issues. Yes, I think action is required as nothing has worked so far.

 

I'm afraid to hurt my mom, really. she's old and not in the greatest of health. I worry that I will push her over the edge...but maybe not...

 

I don't know how to 'act' on the rape issue. I really don't know what to do or how to do it. I could speak to him directly, and he'd probably say whatever (like he did before)....and if I out him to the authorities, well, what's going to happen? Nothing. I know this, nothing will happen other than people knowing the whole deal. Which I really don't care much what people know/think...maybe they'd look at me sideways...I don't care. I do care about my brother. He's in a situation where it's this guys good graces that has enabled him to, well, to live really. He's given my brother work, a place to live, a car..etc...so if I 'rat him out' and cause him all this grief maybe he will stop helping my brother and then my brother's got nothing. Yes, I *shouldn't* feel this responsibly for my bother...but I do...in this one regard. *sigh*

 

my husband...well, as I said I just can't keep forgiving him for the same things over and over. I don't believe he will ever change nor will he ever truly try to change. He'll gloss over and put up a front that he's changed...but underneath it all...in the still and quiet when we're all alone...he's still the same guy he's always been. I believe I could leave him and be perfectly fine, great, lovely all that...and I could stay with him and be ok, good, and deal with it all forever. I weigh the one scenario against the other...and I think of my kids...my son...and I kinda freeze....and am afraid to move forward. It's a funny thing tho...no matter whether I move or not...life keeps going on...events and happenings...just keep on keeping on...and it's all relentlessly dragging me towards leaving him anyway...it's like every time he pulls something (just this last weekend) I get closer to just leaving...to walking out....and starting over on my own...and I can picture it...and I *see* possibilities for me and my son/daughter (who's in college atm)...and... idk... i'm feeling stuck.

 

 

Thank you again!!

[Shepp]

I don't mean to side track your thread at all, but why do you need to forgive?

 

I don't get the whole everyone needs to forgive thing? I mean sure there always has and always will be 'forgiving' people who forgive people who hurt them and it makes them feel better. But people aren't all the same - im not one of them, I know this and id bet my house im not the only one in the world.

 

I couldn't forgive someone who really hurt me, stabbed me in the back or worse hurt someone I loved in some way. I couldn't plain and simple and there isn't one bit of me that would desire to.

 

Its not like not forgiving someone burns me up inside - it doesn't! I can think of one guy that i'll never forgive as long as I live, if I ever come face to face with him, i'll deck him! But that doesn't make me miserable, that has no effect on my day to day life, I don't think about him.

 

What would make me angry is if I wasn't angry at him or forgiving him, forgiving him would make me angry and hence would be completely pointless!

 

I just don't get the whole deal with forgiving everyone for everything.

[Confusion_Reigns]

For a very long time I had the same type of mind set as you. No need to forgive as I didn’t really want to forgive and I truly saw no point in it. It was a useless thing for me to pursue. So I didn’t. Life goes on and on and will continued whether I forgive or not….and besides who the F are they to me?? They will not make or break me….and they wont, not at all…I will make or break myself. Plain and simple.

 

A few years back I went thru some pretty hard times. I was lost. Really, I know that sounds cliché but it’s true. I didn’t know where to turn. I was so unhappy, so depressed, and just lost. The people around me, who love me and want the best for me…and those on internet forums (lol)…said to me that I needed to figure out what I wanted…wow, I had no idea what I really wanted. I’m not a material person so there was nothing material that I really wanted…it took me some time but I figured it out…and all I wanted was to be happy. Real happy, not the fake happy..the real deal. So I started down that path. Now, I am happy inside and can be mostly be happy all the time (sometimes with effort but I know how to do it now). And that desire to be happy has evolved into the desire to find ‘true inner peace’ so I can be content with myself.

 

Thru the years I’ve talked to spiritual leaders in my community. I’ve read and sought out info. I’ve learned that for me to attain that inner peace I need to make peace with my own demons. These are my demons that I don’t want anymore. I know in the past when I’ve truly forgiven an offense it no longer bugs me on any level. That’s what I’m striving for here. That’s on me to figure out and to walk towards and to achieve.

[Shepp]

I guess, and if it works for you, it works for you, good on you.

 

I just don't think it's the one size fits all anwser that people often present it as! I get like it must liberate some people, and I don't at all think that wrong - good or them, but not me to forgive someone who I felt in my heart didn't deserve it would leave a bad taste in my mouth, in my mind it makes justice seem cheap!

 

I just figure that forgivness surely must be for the benifit of the forgiver But it wouldn't bring me any benifit - I'm not a bad person I just believe more in 'evil happens when good men do nothing' and if me deeming his or anyone else's act unforgiveable and upholding that brings any kind of justice, however small, even if it's just them knowing that he'll never forgive me for what I did - that makes me feel pretty good. I know I'm doing my bit for...for justice!

 

It's different strokes for different folks ain't it - that makes me feel good and I know I can't be on my own, and other people find comfort in forgiving!

I think it just is a case of different peoples psychology! It's I think similar to when people go looking for long lost relatives, like if my mam turned round to me tommorrow and told me my dad wasn't my biological dad, I wouldnt think on it for more than a minute - cause my dad was the one who was there all my life, it wouldn't matter to me, not if the other guy was a millionaire or was on his death bed, I wouldn't care, not cause I don't forgive him - it my eyes there's nothing to forgive, just cause he means nothing to me, he's just another stranger!

But some people go to town trying to track down family - and again, good for them if it that's what they want to do, it's wouldnt be for me! - I think people are just different , and I don't think that's a bad thing!

[Heart of the Desert]

I guess, and if it works for you, it works for you, good on you.

 

I just don't think it's the one size fits all anwser that people often present it as! I get like it must liberate some people, and I don't at all think that wrong - good or them, but not me to forgive someone who I felt in my heart didn't deserve it would leave a bad taste in my mouth, in my mind it makes justice seem cheap!

 

I just figure that forgivness surely must be for the benifit of the forgiver But it wouldn't bring me any benifit - I'm not a bad person I just believe more in 'evil happens when good men do nothing' and if me deeming his or anyone else's act unforgiveable and upholding that brings any kind of justice, however small, even if it's just them knowing that he'll never forgive me for what I did - that makes me feel pretty good. I know I'm doing my bit for...for justice!

 

It's different strokes for different folks ain't it - that makes me feel good and I know I can't be on my own, and other people find comfort in forgiving!

I think it just is a case of different peoples psychology! It's I think similar to when people go looking for long lost relatives, like if my mam turned round to me tommorrow and told me my dad wasn't my biological dad, I wouldnt think on it for more than a minute - cause my dad was the one who was there all my life, it wouldn't matter to me, not if the other guy was a millionaire or was on his death bed, I wouldn't care, not cause I don't forgive him - it my eyes there's nothing to forgive, just cause he means nothing to me, he's just another stranger!

But some people go to town trying to track down family - and again, good for them if it that's what they want to do, it's wouldnt be for me! - I think people are just different , and I don't think that's a bad thing!

 

I feel like it really depends on the situation. Some situations require justice some require forgivness. Life is dynamic and ever changing. I try not to be too fixed in one way of being or another. We have to be willing to adapt and change according to what we are facing and the tools we have to deal with the circumstances. Often times we think we will respond a certain way to a hypothetical situation, but until we have experienced it first hand we may never know about a part of ourselves that had existed all along waiting for the right time to reveal itself. Point being that it is important to not get fixed in blanket concepts to help us define our relation to all situations, as they can vary very much. I think you are right in saying it is not a one size fits all answere, but perhaps this can apply to the individual as well. Many problems require vastly different solutions.

[Heart of the Desert]

OP, does your brother know what this man did to you?

[Confusion_Reigns]

Shepp, yes, different strokes for different folks. It's all good. I think because of my upbringing and my belief system I just don't see myself as a being who has the right to dispense justice to other beings. Ie: I have no business trying to pretend I am a 'higher power' with omnipotence. (not saying you view yourself as such either) I figure that actions that need to be forgiven in that manner is between the offender and their higher power.

 

Heart, yes he knows.

[Heart of the Desert]

I am not you and don't know exactly what you have been through but I personaly would not be to concerned with destroying by brothers cushy lifestyle as he willingly accepts handouts from a man he knows has raped me. You have to do what is right for yourself here, whatever that may look like. I know it is a complicated situation. Seeking proffesional help is always the best option. But when it comes to deciding wheather you should out this man or not you might want to consider yourself over your brother in the situation.

 

From what you write it sounds like you are surrounded by a lot of difficult history. Maybe a change of scenery would do you good. A fresh start. I don't know, just throwing it out there.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Thank you again…

 

This is my home and I’m not leaving.

 

My brother’s life style is far from ‘cushy’ it’s pretty despondent…seriously. Yes, I suppose you’re right tho, in regards to putting my own needs over those of my brothers. Oh, it’s a complicated situation…the guy’s high & mighty on the local pecking order…he’s the top dog at the moment. I have personally seen what he’s capable of when it comes to people who piss him off…it’s not only my brother that I worry for but, well, everyone connected to me. My mom, my sister, my other brothers, my nieces, my kids, my husband…my employer, my home….yes, I’ve seen this guy relentlessly take this one family apart. The grandmother lost her home, the kids lost their jobs…it was pretty ugly.

 

What I can do and am kicking the idea around is talk to him directly (again) and just say what I need to say to him…and hopefully be done with it. I think…and could be wrong…that maybe I have somehow given a portion of my power (whatever that means) to him and he holds that over my head….i’m not sure tho…it’sa pretty foggy concept rolling thru my brain right now….

[Heart of the Desert]

It tears me up inside to know that these kind of people get so much power and use it to destroy lives.

Again my heart goes out to you. May you find the healing you seek.

[todreaminblue]

to truly forgive someone .....you dont feel any negative thoughts towards them , that you accept the apology with actual relief and actually wanted to move on.......when they apologise you think yay they didnt mean to cause any hurt thats the relief thing......i frogive pretty quickly....call me retarded..

 

 

i have had to forgive people who have and will never apologise to me........this is really hard because deep down i dont know if they have regrets for what they did.....or if they even cared that they hurt me physically or mentally or emotionally....but what can i do, cant find them all,and make them say sorry and actually mean it....i threw it up to god..literally i do it..to take care of that for me god because i cant handle it....i cant handle the idea that they might not be sorry......and i got the comfort i needed from up above....a warmth inside when i prayed and handed him all the hurt .......and i forgave them....i have no one in my heart i need to forgive....even recent hurts.....they are forgiven already...if i go when its my time ...i go at peace....and i move on..its oen reason why i guess depression and me dont stick together for all that long.....it comes and goes....holding hurt inside makes it stick around..deb

[Betterthanthis13]

Thank you again…

 

This is my home and I’m not leaving.

 

My brother’s life style is far from ‘cushy’ it’s pretty despondent…seriously. Yes, I suppose you’re right tho, in regards to putting my own needs over those of my brothers. Oh, it’s a complicated situation…the guy’s high & mighty on the local pecking order…he’s the top dog at the moment. I have personally seen what he’s capable of when it comes to people who piss him off…it’s not only my brother that I worry for but, well, everyone connected to me. My mom, my sister, my other brothers, my nieces, my kids, my husband…my employer, my home….yes, I’ve seen this guy relentlessly take this one family apart. The grandmother lost her home, the kids lost their jobs…it was pretty ugly.

 

What I can do and am kicking the idea around is talk to him directly (again) and just say what I need to say to him…and hopefully be done with it. I think…and could be wrong…that maybe I have somehow given a portion of my power (whatever that means) to him and he holds that over my head….i’m not sure tho…it’sa pretty foggy concept rolling thru my brain right now….

 

I'm working on forgiveness at the moment too, and finding similar struggles and confusion in my mind when I think about forgiving the people I intend to forgive (but who are not remorseful, or I don't know if they are remorseful and I have no way to find out) so this thread is awesome for me to read. Im just going to be thinking out loud here, so bear with me

 

You said you have been able to forgive people for other, different things in the past, right? So conjure up the sense of peace forgiving them brought you. That is really the goal, isn't it? Not so much the act of forgiving itself, but the effect it is going to have on your life. That is my current operating theory on forgiveness. Now, how to get to that point... thats where the confusion starts, because I cant simply forgive these people and get to where I want, even though I want to. I hope that makes any sense.

So right now I am working on developing compassion for the people who I intend to forgive, since I can not forgive them yet. I have to use my imagination for the reasons why I should even have any compassion for them because I am no longer in contact with thse people. Ok my post is becoming confusing, maybe it would be easier for me to explain if I was more specific.

 

I want to forgive my ex for being a serial cheating sex addict douchebag and putting my life at risk for the unprotected sex he had with hookers and Craigslist casual encounters behind my back for a good portion of our relationship, and I want to forgive him for lying to me and creating a completely false reality for me to live in, creating the illusion of a loving relationship while he was covertly attacking and destroying. I'd like to forgive all the women he had sex with who knew he lived with me, one in particular stands out more than the others because her actions seemed particularly sociopathic. And, I would like to forgive myself. Like you said, that last one is sorta complicated and confusing.

 

Ok. So I am stuck now, I thought I had some good thoughts for you but now that I summarized what I want to forgive, I am not thinking super clearly anymore because I am annoyed.... lol

 

I will come back and get out what I had to say in the beginning in a little bit.

[Betterthanthis13]

OK, well here is an interesting article with some decent practical advice. Im assigning it to myself for homework tonight

 

Rick Hanson, Ph.D.: 10 Steps to Forgiving Yourself

[Confusion_Reigns]

Thank you Better,

 

I do understand what you're saying and where that confusion starts setting in...it's madding, to be honest...thanks for the article