I only approach women I find absolutely attractive.

[RedRobin]

I don't see where you get that though. There is nothing to back that up.

 

Why would they suddenly have women asking them out?

 

If they have shortcomings, physical or personality based -- women are going to overlook them and approach other men. Remember we are talking about women approaching men they don't know, hence they are only going by looks or vibes the men give off. If the men exude a negative vibe, or shy, anti-social vibe, why would women approach?

 

I don't think they would see success no matter who was in charge of approaching. They have personal hang ups they need to take care of.

 

Problem won't go away if women approached, because they would be approaching other men.

 

Not true. Don't forget, I work around all men and have for a very long time.

 

These same guys who seem to be totally dateless, I know for sure have been approached by women. They are just frikkin' clueless about reading it.

 

The ones who do get the picture...finally... the woman has to s-p-e-l-l I-t o-u-t very clearly.

 

... and on your last point. You don't know that. Your own insecurities dictate that women all go after the tall guy or this or that, but it's not true at all.

 

My ex-H.... I'm the one who grabbed him and kissed him (lasted 8 years). I also made the first move with my last LTR, which lasted over a year.

 

A friend of mine did the same with her now H. They've been married for over 10 years.

 

Another friend of mine tried very hard to get her now H to agree to have sex with her before agreeing to be exclusive. He said no. She pushed him for over 6 months like that. He said... nopety-nope until she agreed to be exclusive with him alone. She finally did. They too have been married for over 10 years now.

 

One thing my ex-H and my friend's H have in common. They were both maybe 5-8" tops. My last friend? She's a former model. Her H is shorter than her.

 

So, there ya go.

[MrCastle]

Not true. Don't forget, I work around all men and have for a very long time.

 

These same guys who seem to be totally dateless, I know for sure have been approached by women. They are just frikkin' clueless about reading it.

 

The ones who do get the picture...finally... the woman has to s-p-e-l-l I-t o-u-t very clearly.

 

... and on your last point. You don't know that. Your own insecurities dictate that women all go after the tall guy or this or that, but it's not true at all.

 

My ex-H.... I'm the one who grabbed him and kissed him (lasted 8 years). I also made the first move with my last LTR, which lasted over a year.

 

A friend of mine did the same with her now H. They've been married for over 10 years.

 

Another friend of mine tried very hard to get her now H to agree to have sex with her before agreeing to be exclusive. He said no. She pushed him for over 6 months like that. He said... nopety-nope until she agreed to be exclusive with him alone. She finally did. They too have been married for over 10 years now.

 

One thing my ex-H and my friend's H have in common. They were both maybe 5-8" tops. My last friend? She's a former model. Her H is shorter than her.

 

So, there ya go.

 

I have no insecurities because I do well for myself. I'm happy where my life is.

 

Cool story but the part in bold helps my case more than anything.

 

So now we have women doing the approaches. Approach an unsuccessful man. He doesn't get it/doesn't know how to respond properly, goes home empty handed yet again.

 

Again, the issue is not approaching. It's hang ups they need to address.

[PJKino]

Not true. Don't forget, I work around all men and have for a very long time.

 

These same guys who seem to be totally dateless, I know for sure have been approached by women. They are just frikkin' clueless about reading it.

 

 

 

 

 

No i think most dateless guys speaking from experience if anyhting will take any signs of kidnness for interest because we usually get cold receptions..

 

Is it really hard to believe guys who arent good looking at all have never been cold approached?

Edited September 13, 2013 by PJKino

[RedRobin]

I have no insecurities because I do well for myself. I'm happy where my life is.

 

Cool story but the part in bold helps my case more than anything.

 

So now we have women doing the approaches. Approach an unsuccessful man. He doesn't get it/doesn't know how to respond properly, goes home empty handed yet again.

 

Again, the issue is not approaching. It's hang ups they need to address.

 

I'm pretty sure none of us approached these guys with the thought "oh look! There's an 'unsuccessful' man. Get em!!" We went after them because they had qualities we were attracted to.

 

Part of the problem is definitions of 'success' similar to yours. It is kind of obnoxious. So is the assumption that all introverted men have hangups.

 

It's not a disease that needs curing. Being introverted does sometimes make it more difficult for people to connect with others right off the bat. I'll still claim that some structured environments where they can learn social cues and feel supported to step out of their shell is a better first step than flinging themselves at every attractive female.

 

Also some attention on their part to eliminate social pressure and subsequent self-esteem issues caused by feeling the need to go f*ck lots of women to feel like a 'man'.

Edited September 13, 2013 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

No i think most dateless guys speaking from experience if anyhting will take any signs of kidnness for interest because we usually get cold receptions..

 

Is it really hard to believe guys who arent good looking at all have never been cold approached?

 

Cold approached for what? A ONS??

 

Why would you care what kind of approach it was, if it were from someone you found attractive?

[MrCastle]

I'm pretty sure none of us approached these guys with the thought "oh look! There's an 'unsuccessful' man. Get em!!" We went after them because they had qualities we were attracted to.

 

Part of the problem is definitions of 'success' similar to yours. It is kind of obnoxious. So is the assumption that all introverted men have hangups.

 

It's not a disease that needs curing. Being introverted does sometimes make it more difficult for people to connect with others right off the bat. I'll still claim that some structured environments where they can learn social cues and feel supported to step out of their shell is a better first step than flinging themselves at every attractive female.

 

Also some attention on their part to eliminate social pressure and subsequent self-esteem issues caused by feeling the need to go f*ck lots of women to feel like a 'man'.

 

Let me make a few things very clear to you right now. Are you aware that up until the age of 18 or so, I was terrified to even make eye contact with a woman, let alone actually try to spark a conversation with her?

 

Do you know how many lonely nights I spent in my earlier youth, while friends of mine were going through girlfriends or casual hookups like nothing and gaining experience in romance and in life while I had nobody?

 

Probably not.

 

As is the case with a few posters, you guys have it in your head that I'm some douchebag alpha wanna be that only cares about "getting mad pussy, yo" and I'm leading poor little airhead girls on to get in their pants, and dropping them like nothing.

 

If you've gotten your heart broken by such a man, my apologies, but I am not him.

 

I speak from experience. There is a reason why most unsuccessful men on here seek my advice specifically. Why they PM me and ask me to help them in private. Because I was once them. I know what having social anxiety is all about. I know what being lonely for long stretches of time (years) feels like.

 

So let's not make it seem like I'm some tone deaf guy giving these men the wrong advice. You have been a man roughly 0 days of your life. I've been one for 25 years, most of those years spent lonely and unsuccessful.

 

The problems these men face are much more than shy, "aww shucks" type of guys who just need a little nudge. Many of them have social or interpersonal issues they need to handle before they can even think of having a healthy relationship with a woman.

 

I'm not advising these men "fling themselves at any attractive woman" but they do need to start getting control of their lives, handling their insecurities or lack of confidence, and join the rest of the world in having healthy relationships with the opposite sex.

 

Sitting around, bitching that women have it so easy because guys approach them, and that if only the tables were turned, they would be more successful, is a cop out, and is ignoring the real issue.

 

I speak from experience. I was once one of these bitter men. I came out of it a better man. If they want to change their situation, they need to handle it themselves, as opposed to holding out hope that a woman like you is going to come around and do all the leg work.

[RedRobin]

Let me make a few things very clear to you right now. Are you aware that up until the age of 18 or so, I was terrified to even make eye contact with a woman, let alone actually try to spark a conversation with her?

 

Do you know how many lonely nights I spent in my earlier youth, while friends of mine were going through girlfriends or casual hookups like nothing and gaining experience in romance and in life while I had nobody?

 

Probably not.

 

As is the case with a few posters, you guys have it in your head that I'm some douchebag alpha wanna be that only cares about "getting mad pussy, yo" and I'm leading poor little airhead girls on to get in their pants, and dropping them like nothing.

 

If you've gotten your heart broken by such a man, my apologies, but I am not him.

 

I speak from experience. There is a reason why most unsuccessful men on here seek my advice specifically. Why they PM me and ask me to help them in private. Because I was once them. I know what having social anxiety is all about. I know what being lonely for long stretches of time (years) feels like.

 

So let's not make it seem like I'm some tone deaf guy giving these men the wrong advice. You have been a man roughly 0 days of your life. I've been one for 25 years, most of those years spent lonely and unsuccessful.

 

The problems these men face are much more than shy, "aww shucks" type of guys who just need a little nudge. Many of them have social or interpersonal issues they need to handle before they can even think of having a healthy relationship with a woman.

 

I'm not advising these men "fling themselves at any attractive woman" but they do need to start getting control of their lives, handling their insecurities or lack of confidence, and join the rest of the world in having healthy relationships with the opposite sex.

 

Sitting around, bitching that women have it so easy because guys approach them, and that if only the tables were turned, they would be more successful, is a cop out, and is ignoring the real issue.

 

I speak from experience. I was once one of these bitter men. I came out of it a better man. If they want to change their situation, they need to handle it themselves, as opposed to holding out hope that a woman like you is going to come around and do all the leg work.

 

you wanna know why I think the above is more true than not??

 

Because I see the posts you 'like' and make little smiley faces with. I see the comments you make from your friends who call women 'spinners', etc that you re-post without batting an eyelash.

 

You can't BS me. Sorry. Save it for the 20 somethings you chase.

 

... but I get it that you are sucked (or were) into the same abyss these other guys are. It just manifests itself differently. Why the h*ll you think I even bother responding or arguing this point with you?

 

We both agree that social awkwardness is the issue. I just don't happen to believe that validation or success comes through racking up numbers.

 

I also agree that sitting around complaining doesn't help them.

 

Oh, and women like me aren't going to do all the leg work. Not at all. The guys always have to step up to the plate at some point. If introversion is their only issue, I'm happy to break the ice... because I'm more extroverted than many and know very good men who are introverted and are great (and passionate!!) partners.

Edited September 14, 2013 by RedRobin

[PJKino]

Cold approached for what? A ONS??

 

Why would you care what kind of approach it was, if it were from someone you found attractive?

 

Ive never been approached in anyway i brought up cold because i thought thats what you were talking about when you said all guys have been approached thye just dont know it

[RedRobin]

Ive never been approached in anyway i brought up cold because i thought thats what you were talking about when you said all guys have been approached thye just dont know it

 

I believe you.

 

It's just that in my business there are also a very high percentage of introverted, and some would say, physically unattractive men.

 

I've worked closely with them and gotten the chance to know a few of them and attend social events. I can think of many situations where women hit on them and were attracted to them.

 

Instead, they hit on me. They were nice guys. One of them I did find attractive too, but I turned them down because I was a lot older than them.

[RedRobin]

Castle, I was going to edit the prior post before someone posted after.

 

I don't want to be harsh with you, and I apologize for that. However, some of your negative views of women leak through here... which makes it difficult for me to believe some of the things you claim regarding how well you treat them.

[MrCastle]

you wanna know why I think the above is more true than not??

 

Because I see the posts you 'like' and make little smiley faces with. I see the comments you make from your friends who call women 'spinners', etc that you re-post without batting an eyelash.

 

You can't BS me. Sorry. Save it for the 20 somethings you chase.[/Quote]

 

That's unfortunate. That you can't determine when I'm goofing off. I guess it's hard to pick up in text form. There is a reason people that I'm close with on here cross all ages and genders and stages of life. There's a reason why a divorced woman with kids and a 20 year old male virgin both end up respecting my opinion and appreciate my input. I'm a good guy. If you can't see that, again, I'm sorry. That's on you, not me. Moving right along.

 

... but I get it that you are sucked (or were) into the same abyss these other guys are. It just manifests itself differently. Why the h*ll you think I even bother responding or arguing this point with you?[/Quote]

 

Honestly? I don't know at this point. I know you disagree with some of my lifestyle choices, as well as have a distorted image of who I am, so I just figured you're in here with an axe to grind.

 

We both agree that social awkwardness is the issue. I just don't happen to believe that validation or success comes through racking up numbers. [/Quote]

 

You keep bringing up this strawman argument of racking up numbers. No one here is advising men to "rack up numbers." -- I am saying, if they see a woman they'd like to get to know, take action. Don't stand around wondering "what if." Approach her and find out for yourself.

 

Some men are looking for LTRs, others for casual flings. Regardless, the only way they can pursue those women is to grab the bull by the horns. Most women are not going to come out and approach men. Again, this is society. The men are expected to approach.

 

I also agree that sitting around complaining doesn't help them.[/Quote]

 

Great.

 

Oh, and women like me aren't going to do all the leg work. Not at all. The guys always have to step up to the plate at some point. If introversion is their only issue, I'm happy to break the ice... because I'm more extroverted than many and know very good men who are introverted and are great (and passionate!!) partners.

 

That's great. That's a great mentality to have. Again though, men should not wait around for a Red Robin type to show up and relieve them of their struggles. You have to make it happen on your own. Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish, you know what I mean?

[MrCastle]

Castle, I was going to edit the prior post before someone posted after.

 

I don't want to be harsh with you, and I apologize for that. However, some of your negative views of women leak through here... which makes it difficult for me to believe some of the things you claim regarding how well you treat them.

 

I think we all have moments of frustration and anger. We're human. Nothing is static. Our emotions are very much dynamic. I think I do a pretty good job of keeping an even keel on here and doing the best I can to remove my biases from my posts and be as helpful and real as I can -- but we are all shaped by our experiences for better or worse.

 

The experiences I went through, although in the past, and actually nowhere near as bad as some others have it/had it -- continue to shape me and affect me. They have made me who I am.

 

Just like I keep a picture in my drawer of me as a hefty young teen to remind myself that I never want to be chunky again, when I read the plights of some of the men on here, I am invested emotionally because I see myself in them. And I give them the advice I wish others had given me when I was them.

 

I may come across as harsh at times, but only when I have to be. I'm passionate by nature and although I do have my moments, I try my best to avoid character attacks or personal jabs when talking to others I disagree with. I don't try to assume things about them or associate them with women of my past and target them unfairly. I do what I can to be fair.

 

This is a discussion forum. Not an agreement forum. I love debating issues with those who have views that oppose mine but would prefer not having to defend my character and who I am in order to have such discussions.

 

Again, if you looked more for my good and less for the bad, you'd see I'm a pretty decent person.

[ltjg45]

I know MrCastle is a good person and one of the more sane people on this forum, which is not saying much, unfortunately.

 

I also understand what he means and I'm getting better at it. Unfortunately, the women around me is definitely not the ones I will approach so my lack of skill with women will be suffering for a bit longer.

[happydate]

No, they can't.

 

You still have to be worth a shyte underneath all that flash... not a bold piece of turd covered in frosting.... Walking around with some piece of meat they call a 'woman' just to prop up their ego.

 

A man on a wheelchair with his wife and 2 kids on a man made lake playing with his model boat and the kids enjoying it. Hmm, I just dont see where ego comes in play? Most of these men I know truly want to settle down with good women and not sluts or flakes or GIGS. Many of these men went through the same nonesense as well until they found what they are looking for. I'm sorry you got hurt from many men, but we have the right to shop. Where does it say we have to marry any woman we meet? It is called dating and if sex is involved and things dont work out, it is called being incompatible.

 

There are some men out there who are just looking mainly for the casual side of sex and they have ego issues. I work with these men too. That is their choice if they believe sex is love. But women they are sleeping with are adults. They made a choice to become their cum buckets. If you want to seal a commitment, look at yourself and see what you can offer to him on the table other than sex that no other women can.

 

Having said that, many nice guys have ego issues. They are unwilling to admit their problems and unwilling to seek help from guys who have mastered women. Most of these guys are willing to help, not because they have a big ego but a selfless quest to help those who can meet a woman and be happy with just like them. Or even raise a family together!

Edited September 15, 2013 by happydate

[PJKino]

I think men should always approach. Often when a woman approaches the guy just uses her. Men will take what they can get so if a woman whose kinda hot approaches him he will take it as an opportunity to get sex while looking for his perfect hot girl.

 

Most of my friends that chase after guys end up getting burned (used until something better comes along for the guy) or they end up with a guy who is with them only because he can get anything else (a shy guy who cannot get a girl, so he settles for the one who went after him)

 

The same can be said for men who approach a women she might just lead him on for ego or validation, why in the dating world are men supposed to be emotionless unaffected robots who are expected to put their egos and feelings on the line right away while women need their precious egos and feelings protected?