Do any OW/OM feel guilt?

[ComingInHot]

The classifications based mostly on momentary glimpses with a skewed perception of the BS's here are bordering prejudice.

To classify All or even Most BS's in one particular way based on one, two or even more experiences (if you're serial OW/OM) is certainly Still not based on the reality.

Maybe it would be More productive if the AP's here refer, specifically to the BS that they are enabling the MS to cheat on, instead of biasely generalizing all BS's are "this or that" way.

Seems to me if one makes a generalization, it should be written as a question in search of answers OR at the very least state the comment is a generalization.

 

Guilt, remorse, shame etc... are feelings that are experienced when a person Knows what they are doing is Not "really" alright.

 

doesn't matter the state of the M or personality of the spouse. They DID marry for pete's sake!*

[So happy together]

The classifications based mostly on momentary glimpses with a skewed perception of the BS's here are bordering prejudice.

To classify All or even Most BS's in one particular way based on one, two or even more experiences (if you're serial OW/OM) is certainly Still not based on the reality.

Maybe it would be More productive if the AP's here refer, specifically to the BS that they are enabling the MS to cheat on, instead of biasely generalizing all BS's are "this or that" way.

Seems to me if one makes a generalization, it should be written as a question in search of answers OR at the very least state the comment is a generalization.

 

Guilt, remorse, shame etc... are feelings that are experienced when a person Knows what they are doing is Not "really" alright.

 

doesn't matter the state of the M or personality of the spouse. They DID marry for pete's sake!*

 

Do you deny that the perception of OW is skewed?

[So happy together]

Why people don't get the basic simple rule...that others are not responsible for our happiness.

 

An affair does not say ONE.THING.ABOUT.THE.BETRAYED.

 

It does speak volumes to those involved.

 

Think of a drunk driver...who hits a person crossing the street. Does the person crossing the street have to take responsibility for the reasons/excuses that led the drunk driver to drive? Of course not. For some reason there are many here that would get out of that car...look at the person on the road, then their car..and be upset over the damage done....TO THE CAR!!!!!! Then to add insult to injure...start screaming....wtf were you doing crossing the street, don't you look where you are going??? Because to look at why they choose to drink and drive would mean....they did wrong...and their psyche just couldn't handle that.

 

 

In most cases it speaks volumes about the betrayed. And your drunk driver analogy is crap. Stop using analogies. Just speak it like it is. In my case... he was so lonely, he was in a 29 year marriage. And alone. Later she gave her excuses for not loving him, but it was too late. I expect that is true for a lot of people who cheat.

[Nyla]

Why people don't get the basic simple rule...that others are not responsible for our happiness.

 

An affair does not say ONE.THING.ABOUT.THE.BETRAYED.

 

It does speak volumes to those involved.

 

Think of a drunk driver...who hits a person crossing the street. Does the person crossing the street have to take responsibility for the reasons/excuses that led the drunk driver to drive? Of course not. For some reason there are many here that would get out of that car...look at the person on the road, then their car..and be upset over the damage done....TO THE CAR!!!!!! Then to add insult to injure...start screaming....wtf were you doing crossing the street, don't you look where you are going??? Because to look at why they choose to drink and drive would mean....they did wrong...and their psyche just couldn't handle that.

 

I actually had something similar happen to me.

 

A man was speeding while I crossed and broke my left hand. He came out of the car for a minute and then jumped back in, saying he had to take his mother to the doctor. He also called my cell phone and screamed at me for breaking his mirror with my hand and threatened to come to my house if I sued him. I still sued the prick and won. It takes a certain kind of evil for a driver to blame the victim that they hit.

 

While I detest only assigning blame to the BS for an affair, I will say that the BS can contribute to the decision to cheat. Nobody can make their spouse be unfaithful but certain situations can be contributing factors. Some adults are mature enough to refrain from breaking marriage vows in a ridiculous attempt to deal with problems. Others cheat and then blame the BS entirely.

[ladydesigner]

I think that the Bs in my situation did not take responsibility in the failure of her marriage. It's all about the affair. That is sad on her end because she will never grow or learn what she could have done differently. I don't think you are conflicted. If you have these feelings for the Bs, then end your relationship. I like you Bentley, but I don't think you're conflicted. I think you make excuses for yourself and then try to get on everyone's good side. Feel bad? End it. Tell her. Good luck.

 

I'm sorry SHT most of your posts are about villifying the BS and it strikes a chord because most of us realize our marriages have had problems. That's not an excuse to cheat. You go to MC or you get a D. Your MM is a coward plain and simple and THAT quality is not a very favorable one.

[So happy together]

I'm sorry SHT most of your posts are about villifying the BS and it strikes a chord because most of us realize our marriages have had problems. That's not an excuse to cheat. You go to MC or you get a D. Your MM is a coward plain and simple and THAT quality is not a very favorable one.

 

I hear this. I'm sorry this makes you feel that way. I have stated her issues, I know. But damn it. Can you not, as a person see why he would be afraid to leave because of legal, monetary and religious repercussions, which have all occurred, by the way?

 

I will say, and have said often, I don't like how our R began, but please... take a moment to look at what you (generally) are contributing, or not to the M.

[ladydesigner]

I did not say that every BS deserves what is coming to them.

 

Nor did I say that no BS ever deserves what is coming to them.

 

But some do, and my post referred to that subset of BS that do.

 

No one deserves to be cheated on. NO ONE. That IMO is a sick point of view. I find it pathetic people think this way.

[ladydesigner]

I hear this. I'm sorry this makes you feel that way. I have stated her issues, I know. But damn it. Can you not, as a person see why he would be afraid to leave because of legal, monetary and religious repercussions, which have all occurred, by the way?

 

I will say, and have said often, I don't like how our R began, but please... take a moment to look at what you (generally) are contributing, or not to the M.

 

I understand what you are saying, but both contribute to the breakdown I'm sure it's not just his BS. Fear is what keeps people in bad marriages, it is my opinion that people who cheat are cowards and want an easier way out, a less conflicted way.

[So happy together]

I understand what you are saying, but both contribute to the breakdown I'm sure it's not just his BS. Fear is what keeps people in bad marriages, it is my opinion that people who cheat are cowards and want an easier way out, a less conflicted way.

 

It was not an easy way out. It made things so much more difficult. And I am only speaking with my Bf, but he takes responsibility, and so far is the only one in the marriage that has. I wish she would, she'd be better off for it.

[ladydesigner]

I am not refuting the fact that they are sometimes the victim. I am bothered by the fact that someone would not have a clue in the world why her husband would cheat. That entails lying to herself. If she thinks she was happy she is either A. Lying. or B. oblivious to the needs of her husband. I will give the serial cheater up here, as that is not the same story, but generally, women don't want to believe what is happening or take her part in the unhappiness of it all. I find it fascinating that Bs's (generally) expect OW to take responsibility, but Bs's refuse, playing the martyr. No thanks.

 

They cheat because of bad coping skills or bad boundaries. Again it is not the BS's fault. One day I hope the BS in your situation comes to this realization as well. I hope she gets off alcohol and picks herself up because she does not need a man that runs when things hit a breaking point. It is a choice the WS made that inflicted pain, very traumatic pain.

[ladydesigner]

It was not an easy way out. It made things so much more difficult. And I am only speaking with my Bf, but he takes responsibility, and so far is the only one in the marriage that has. I wish she would, she'd be better off for it.

 

What she needs to take responsibility for her alchoholism not her WH's A with you. I hope for her sake that she will be able to move on with her head held high. She just needs to figure out how to detach the rest is easy.

[So happy together]

They cheat because of bad coping skills or bad boundaries. Again it is not the BS's fault. One day I hope the BS in your situation comes to this realization as well. I hope she gets off alcohol and picks herself up because she does not need a man that runs when things hit a breaking point. It is a choice the WS made that inflicted pain, very traumatic pain.

 

I will take your opinion with respect.

[ladydesigner]

I will take your opinion with respect.

 

Thank you and I wish you all the best. I do for his BS as well. Life and marriage is just not easy sometimes. I was a fWS so I try to balance my views. I see my past actions as cowardly when I should have addressed my own marital situation.

[threelaurels]

I am not refuting the fact that they are sometimes the victim. I am bothered by the fact that someone would not have a clue in the world why her husband would cheat. That entails lying to herself. If she thinks she was happy she is either A. Lying. or B. oblivious to the needs of her husband. I will give the serial cheater up here, as that is not the same story, but generally, women don't want to believe what is happening or take her part in the unhappiness of it all. I find it fascinating that Bs's (generally) expect OW to take responsibility, but Bs's refuse, playing the martyr. No thanks.

 

An OW chooses to be involved with a MM. She willingly consents to being involved in an affair. The choice was not forced on her. If she wants to stop the affair, she can leave at any time. She has power and control over her actions. As a result, she should take responsibility for her actions.

 

A BW, on the other hand, does not choose to be cheated on. She did not choose for it to happen. It happens without her consent and is forced upon her. An affair cannot occur unless MM and OW both choose to have one. The BW cannot control the decisions of MM and OW. Their choices are necessary and sufficient conditions for an affair to occur. Her choices are not. They may have contributed to the breakdown of the marriage, but they did not cause the affair. She owns some of the responsibility for the marriage going south, but she does not own any responsibility for the affair or for MM choosing to cheat on her.

 

And just to be clear, there is no willful intent. It is simply a need to be loved. And if a rapist had willful intent that would insinuate a decision, which they don't have. They've no choice, they are sick. I don't think OW or MM are sick.

 

Affairs cannot occur without either the willful intent to cheat or the willful intent to act with disregard to the boundaries of their committed relationship. Cheating is not something that just happens. At some point, intentional decisions are made, whether the person aims to cheat from the beginning or chooses to make decisions that they know their partner would be uncomfortable with.

 

Rapists have control over their actions. Yes, there are other underlying factors like low self-control that typically separate a rapist from a non-rapist, but rape is not an automatic response that is beyond a person's control like a seizure or a reflex. At some point, a rapist makes the decision to assault their victim, just like MM and OW eventually make the decisions that lead to an affair.

[threelaurels]

I hear this. I'm sorry this makes you feel that way. I have stated her issues, I know. But damn it. Can you not, as a person see why he would be afraid to leave because of legal, monetary and religious repercussions, which have all occurred, by the way?

 

I will say, and have said often, I don't like how our R began, but please... take a moment to look at what you (generally) are contributing, or not to the M.

 

The only reason an MM would be afraid to leave because of legal, monetary, and religious repercussions is because he had a comfortable life. It may not have been ideal, but it wasn't all that bad either. If this little girl can risk death to escape an arranged marriage to an adult man, surely MM could live with paying alimony, sharing custody of his children, and being kicked out of church if it meant being with the person he truly loved and having a chance at happiness. It's sad to see a child who has such little power in the world be more brave than a grown adult who has a world of options in front of them. Cowardice is hardly a virtue.

[ComingInHot]

So happy, I think I have a healthy grasp on the fact that the only thing, for a fact, that OW have in common is that they are having an illicit relationship w/a MM.I'm slightly surprised that beyond that fact, these "OW" can be kind or, cruel, sincere or spiteful, empathetic or sociopathic, elegant or clumsy... each of you are as individual as every other person on the planet!!

 

If I can acknowledge this fact, why is it that you have such difficulty grasping this conceptual Truth instead of "boxing" all BS's in as being Only negative people with negative traits. Even after the abhorrent manner in which exOW treated me, I can Still see she has good qualities separate from her &$#@ing My H*.

At her very worst, she Still stated what she did was wrong and felt badly for hurting SO many people.

[tinker683]

Just because MM/MW doesn't like their choices doesn't mean they don't have a choice

[bentleychic]

I don't think you are conflicted. If you have these feelings for the Bs, then end your relationship. I like you Bentley, but I don't think you're conflicted. I think you make excuses for yourself and then try to get on everyone's good side. Feel bad? End it. Tell her. Good luck.

 

LOL Whose good side am I trying to get on? I didn't come on here to make friends or impress anyone and I don't really care if you think I'm conflicted or, quite frankly, WHAT you think of me. Shoot, even in real life, with people that I like, I don't say things b/c I want people to like me.

 

You don't even know 1/8th of my story and you never will b/c I'm not willing to share details here.

 

And here is when you excuse yourself.

It's not an excuse at all. I AM in an affair and I know it's wrong, it's against my moral compass and what I feel is right, but yup, I'm in it. However, MM is cheating on his W, but I am not cheating. To me, you have to be in a relationship to someone to be cheating on them. Am I doing her wrong by being in the A? Absolutely. However, *I* am not cheating on her.

[Red Wolverine]

A BW, on the other hand, does not choose to be cheated on. She did not choose for it to happen. It happens without her consent and is forced upon her. An affair cannot occur unless MM and OW both choose to have one. The BW cannot control the decisions of MM and OW. Their choices are necessary and sufficient conditions for an affair to occur. Her choices are not. They may have contributed to the breakdown of the marriage, but they did not cause the affair. She owns some of the responsibility for the marriage going south, but she does not own any responsibility for the affair or for MM choosing to cheat on her.

 

This is such an important distinction. Many view the problems in a marriage as justification for an affair. At best, it's an explanation, not an excuse.

 

A BS may be responsible for a share of the problems, however only the WS can place blame there, not an AP.

 

Once the WS makes the decision to participate in an affair, the ante has been upped. The BS is not responsible in any way for that decision.

[Red Wolverine]

The only reason an MM would be afraid to leave because of legal, monetary, and religious repercussions is because he had a comfortable life. It may not have been ideal, but it wasn't all that bad either. If this little girl can risk death to escape an arranged marriage to an adult man, surely MM could live with paying alimony, sharing custody of his children, and being kicked out of church if it meant being with the person he truly loved and having a chance at happiness. It's sad to see a child who has such little power in the world be more brave than a grown adult who has a world of options in front of them. Cowardice is hardly a virtue.

 

I read on the infidelity forum that MM often choose a lifestyle, not a woman. I believe that is true and the polar opposite of OW's perspective in affairs.

 

While it may be understandable, it really demonstrates the level of selfishness and cowardice in play.

[velvette]

Lol. Wrong.

 

 

SHT, I wasn't referring to you when I responded to Kathy; however, not sure what your response means or why you are laughing about what really is a sad situation.

 

Its interesting though that your R does apparently fit exactly the persecutor, victim, rescuer model that is so common in A and one we see played out here endlessly. So, if you don't agree that an OW involved in that scenario is acting out some FOO issue, what do you think is going on? Why would anyone involve themselves in such a dysfunctional situation if they don't have their own dysfunction or unresolved issues going on?

[thefooloftheyear]

When discussing guilt, it got me to thinking of this scenario....because i'd be willing to bet that it happens more often than its reported here....

 

Let's say you have a typical MM/MW that is in a marriage that has problems, but not bad enough to blow up the whole deal. Too much invested in family, kids, finances, etc..

 

So, then the MM/MW is not particularly happy, but goes on their daily life in a state of apathy or so consumed with the kids and trying to keep the repo man out of their life, that they trudge on. They woudn't normally seek out an AP, but one "falls in their lap" so to speak. So they take the bait..Its a non calculated "situational" event.

 

MM/MW then gets caught up in the whole deal, because the OW/OM is doing what is basically feeding a starving dog a juicy T-bone steak. The A gets out of hand and when there is a turning point, then either the MM/MW runs back to patch up the damage and try to make a life out of a "broken" situation-or they get divorced.

 

So then, if you as the OW/OM knowingly pursued and entered into a relationship with a married individual, causing their life, their family and their kids to get turned upside down when perhaps they would have never entered into an A if someone didn't actively pursue them, then I would think that would make me horribly remorseful if I was in the postion of OW/OM...

 

Understand, its still up to the M indivdual to show strength and turn away from these temptations, and that there is no denying. But we are all flawed in some ways...some more than others...

 

Just something to think about...Not pointing fingers at anyone..

 

TFY

[William]

Let's dispense with the serial killer and rapist analogies. This will prevent any more members from being banned from our forums. If you cannot discuss and/or debate on our forums in a civil and respectful manner, leave. As the thread is a valid topic of discussion, it will remain open to those members who can discuss within our guidelines. Thanks.

 

As I neglected to restate the topic, I'll do so now:

 

 

Do any OW/OM feel guilty over their part in the A? Do you ever feel guilty over what you put the BS, MM's children, and MM through?

Edited September 9, 2013 by William

[MissBee]

Anyway, to get back on topic:

 

I do think, and as this thread reflects, majority of OW engaged in ongoing affairs do feel some level of discomfort with the situation. An OW isn't the one cheating if she is single, but people with basic levels of human decency usually dislike being in situations which are duplicitous.

 

I don't think most times the guilt is enough to stop you from whatever benefit you receive from it, and usually one is able to put it out if sight and mind, but it seems that there is usually discomfort, which to me signals a normal person with a working conscience.

 

If you're not a career OW, I think your mentality is usually that the A is a means to an end and not something you genuinely choose because you love it and see no problems with it.

[bentleychic]

I admire how you are not in Disneyland.

 

 

I admire how you do not rationalize and see everything with so much clarity.

 

 

There are not many like you in the world.

 

I agree with your post.

I can never tell if you are being sincere or tongue in cheek!