Really need some help from you guys

[sylviaguardian]

Thanks for the tips. We are going to counselling next week and he has agreed to go, but once again it was me who organised it and I feel like I'm doing all the work. My only hope is that he can't come out with his BS in front of a counsellor (or maybe he can I don't know). I'm not looking forward to it in a way as I'm sure that I'm going to hear a lot of things I don't want to hear.

 

At the moment we are at stalemate. I can't even be bothered to talk to him about it. Owl, did you ever get the feeling that you just didn't like your wife anymore because of what she did?

 

Just seems sometimes that this is not the person I married.

 

Sylvia

[veronese]

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

Thanks for the tips. We are going to counselling next week and he has agreed to go, but once again it was me who organised it and I feel like I'm doing all the work. My only hope is that he can't come out with his BS in front of a counsellor (or maybe he can I don't know). I'm not looking forward to it in a way as I'm sure that I'm going to hear a lot of things I don't want to hear.

 

At the moment we are at stalemate. I can't even be bothered to talk to him about it. Owl, did you ever get the feeling that you just didn't like your wife anymore because of what she did?

 

Just seems sometimes that this is not the person I married.

 

Sylvia

 

 

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

Thanks for the tips. We are going to counselling next week and he has agreed to go, but once again it was me who organised it and I feel like I'm doing all the work. My only hope is that he can't come out with his BS in front of a counsellor (or maybe he can I don't know). I'm not looking forward to it in a way as I'm sure that I'm going to hear a lot of things I don't want to hear.

 

At the moment we are at stalemate. I can't even be bothered to talk to him about it. Owl, did you ever get the feeling that you just didn't like your wife anymore because of what she did?

 

Just seems sometimes that this is not the person I married.

 

Sylvia

 

 

Take each day one day at a time sylvia, there's no deadline to make any decisions. You may end up deciding to leave him but if and when you do you'll make that decision rationally an not in the state of shock you are in presently.

 

Your hair falling out? It may be something as simple as autumnal (seasonal) hair loss. I have always lost more hair round fall just like dogs moult at specific times in the season. I know stress can trigger hair loss too, but certainly worrying may exacerbate the problem so try not to give it too much of your attention. Last thing you need right now is being bald and dumped!! (lol)

 

What you said about not encouraging other men rang true to me. Thumbingmy way also touched upon the subject of the 'guilty' spouses often feeling incredibly secure with their partners. It seems a common theme on this site, and is true in my case too.

 

Haven't seen much of my husband this week (work constraints) so things slightly strange between us tonight. Ended up discussing how I no longer put such a wall up between me and male colleagues. He seemed pleased that I have seen the light that idle flirting and titillation in passing is cool and acceptable. Well he did until I pointed out that flirtatious behaviour opens up a whole realm of possibilities I'd previously not encountered. Got him thinking definitely, but truthfully would prefer to be in a marriage where this could never happen. Might as well wake up and smell the coffee though ..... maybe if I enjoyed attention (innocently) of other men I'd put less of an onus on 'us' and our marriage and enjoy life for what it is.....?

[veronese]

QUOTE]Originally posted by sylviaguardian

Well, I'm hanging in there, but only by a thread. I'm afraid I've got to the point that I can't be bothered fighting this anymore. Last night I felt so calm and I told my H that I could see that the OW was not the problem at all, that she was only a symptom of other problems in our relationship. Last night on the way home from work I started to work out when I last felt really happy and it dawned on me that our relationship has not been great for a few years. The more I started to think about it, the more I could see what I had been unhappy about. My H is an emotionally independent person and for a long time, I have felt quite rejected by him. He is not a highly affectionate or sexual person and in a way I also felt like we weren't a 'couple' in a spiritual sense (if that makes sense!). I suppose I have buried these feelings partially or relied on my girlfriends/children for affection. The times when I did try to address this with him were times that always ended in arguments so I suppose I avoided doing it. I think he also felt that I was being a nag.

 

Anyway, he listened to all of this and when I asked him what he thought he had been unhappy about he said 'Nothing really. OUr relationship just suffered because I put so much energy into the OW". I silently counted to ten and then said "BUt you had an affair - you must have felt that there was something missing!".

 

He said "I haven't really had time to think about it"! AAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh! I am tired of trying to save this relationship alone. I can't do it anyway. Guys help me here. I am losing the will to continue this battle. When I look at him now I wonder if I even like him now anyway. I've just lost all respect for him.

 

What can I do? Is it time to call it a day?

 

 

God Sylvia, this is exactly how I have felt. This realisation that in hindsight problems within your relationship were disguised or unrecognised by avoiding confrontation or masking them by distracting yourself within acceptable, normal friendships with female friends. The first time I ever confronted him properly was the night preceding his confession. I felt uncomfortable and ashamed to question him so directly, but I thought that if I couldn't even ask my husband questions in the hope of appeasing my worries, what kind of a marriage did I have? I'd never demanded information before like this, but I figured even though I was behaving like a jealous, anxious wife, the one person who should be able to reassure and console me would be him. I'd never realised previously just how seldom I actually asked him for details, it was positively discouraged. Consequently I played by the rules to avoid the nagging wife label.

 

Meanwhile, I relayed absolutely every tiny detail in a blow by blow account of anything of interest in my day. He didn't need to ask questions cos I spewed every shred of information completely willingly. His anecdotes of his day revolved around bad traffic, frantic workloads, and generally stressful demands. I sympathized and tried to ease the pressure wherever possible, taking on more and more responsibilities to give him a break. The fact that I was working myself into an early grave both professionally and domestically didn't concern him. He was well aware I was completely stretched and struggling, but nevertheless watched my health and sanity deteriorate trying to accomplish everything while sneaking off for illicit liaisons with his tarts.

 

 

Where he lacked in emotionally satisfying me, I accepted his inadequacy in this way as a consequence of his upbringing and that it was not to be used as a weakness for me to attack. I have a small group of very good girlfriends who filled the gap quite nicely.

 

But learning how he was able to devote so much energy and emotion in the direction of his 'harem' of women was hard to come to terms with. I was feeling neglected and insecure in the months leading up to the discovery I had been open with him about how I was feeling. Yet still he continued to contact and see these friends, despite being aware of my misgivings and concerns.

 

 

The discovery broke my heart. I had no idea he could have developed relationships with even one woman, let alone three. To have shared him unwittingly tore me apart. Like you, I looked at this pathetic example of a man and couldn't equate it with how I'd felt about him before. Like you I was confused about bothering to work at saving a relationship with someone whose character depicted the type of man I loathed. I told my husband he was a bxxtard, the worst kind of bxxtard, because he covered his true self so well. I told him that I would never have married him if I had known what he was really like, that who he actually was was the epitome of what I had never imagined, wanted or tolerated. He finally admitted he was a bxxtard, but added that he was 'a nice' one!

 

Your man is going to continue to piss you off for the foreseeable future, you're seeing him for the first time all over again. I know how you feel so well, it's tortuous to endure. But hang on in there Sylvia. In time you'll see it a little differently. This woman really isn't significant or worth your emotions. He flirted with her a little in his stupid fantasy world. But he's human and fallible and we all make mistakes. You may not have the same take on marriage (apparently neither do we!!), but you could end up working through this til you both agree on a way forward.

 

My advice:

 

Write your thoughts down when you can so you don't overload your H with every twist and turn in your emotions.

 

Try not to focus too much on this woman

 

Take a step back from him a bit, and while being loving and caring when you feel like that, let him come to you more. Be a little detached. Make him think about your needs, feelings etc. by switching off from him. After all, he's the one who's screwed up, but you're the one putting every last bit of energy into repairing the damage. How must that look to him? He who hasn't really had time to think about it when you've done nothing else? As long as we devote all of ourselves to our partners, especially after they've bloody lied to us, we don't come across in a favourable light. There's no challenge, nothing to work for. We're laid out on a plate for them so we're a safe bet.

 

Try to be calm and collected when you do enter difficult conversations with him. Take it steady. It's human nature to defend oneself when confronted with high emotion/accusations. I know its not easy but continuous attacks on him combined with distress and devastation tends to delay productive discussion.

 

Babe, i really am thinking of you. Take care

[lovetolearn]

Hi Sylvia, I'm not sure if this reply will help you at all because I'm really just going to vent about my own situation which seems to mirror yours. I have been married for 10 years and my wife had an emotional affair over a year ago and also responded in a similar way - she seemed to think it was innocent because it didn't end up turning physical. I couldn't imagine it hurting any worse if it did, it is just as hard to fight the feelings of betrayal and mistrust in either case. We have worked on repairing our marriage and we are doing alright but my feelings towards her have changed and I feel like I can never love her the way I did before. It is very difficult for me to put a full effort back into repairing my marriage when deep down my heart is really not totaly in it. We get along fine and our family life is pretty decent but I am having a hard time getting back to a state of contentment.

 

On an encouraging note time did heal alot of the hurt - for a long time the vision of her sitting in her car for hours with the OM or emailing him as soon as I left for work haunted me daily but now these feelings have pretty well disappeared. What has remained though is this fear that she may do it again. I do know that one of the most important ways of overcoming my fear is that it is vital to work on my own self esteem - having your partner do this is a real kick in the head and I kept blaming myself for not giving my wife her emotional needs. I have tried to stop putting all the blame on myself and am working to make myself emotionally stronger. The better I feel about myself, the bettter my wife will feel about me. Anyways, I know this reply is probably more theraputic for me than you but at least you know there are others who feel your pain.

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by lovetolearn

Hi Sylvia, I'm not sure if this reply will help you at all because I'm really just going to vent about my own situation which seems to mirror yours. I have been married for 10 years and my wife had an emotional affair over a year ago and also responded in a similar way - she seemed to think it was innocent because it didn't end up turning physical. I couldn't imagine it hurting any worse if it did, it is just as hard to fight the feelings of betrayal and mistrust in either case. We have worked on repairing our marriage and we are doing alright but my feelings towards her have changed and I feel like I can never love her the way I did before. It is very difficult for me to put a full effort back into repairing my marriage when deep down my heart is really not totaly in it. We get along fine and our family life is pretty decent but I am having a hard time getting back to a state of contentment.

 

On an encouraging note time did heal alot of the hurt - for a long time the vision of her sitting in her car for hours with the OM or emailing him as soon as I left for work haunted me daily but now these feelings have pretty well disappeared. What has remained though is this fear that she may do it again. I do know that one of the most important ways of overcoming my fear is that it is vital to work on my own self esteem - having your partner do this is a real kick in the head and I kept blaming myself for not giving my wife her emotional needs. I have tried to stop putting all the blame on myself and am working to make myself emotionally stronger. The better I feel about myself, the bettter my wife will feel about me. Anyways, I know this reply is probably more theraputic for me than you but at least you know there are others who feel your pain.

[sylviaguardian]

Sorry, I am no good at this quote business. Can anyone tell me how to do it? Anyway, thanks for your posts - I have done so much thinking today and think I've reached an epiphany! It's all done to thinking about the last two posts:

 

First of all ;

 

talking of low self-esteem why has almost everyone on this site talked about low self-esteem and about the cheater feeling really secure in the relationship?? Here's an example from my own experience. Who would you think is more fun to be around: a person who thinks they c*** and who worships you, or person who thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread and who worships you? OK, I am the person who thinks they are c***. I am attractive, intelligent, successful, a great friend etc but under stress i HATE myself! The OW is as attractive as me, successful etc and she thinks she is FANTASTIC and spends a lot of time convincing others of this. Who is most fun to be around?? You've guessed it!

 

Probably one of the reasons why cheaters feel so secure in their relationships is because if we don't believe we have lots to offer other, neither do they. Once they realise that others might just be interested it could be a different story. Look at TMY and how his wife reacted to another woman flirting with him.

 

From now on I am going to make the effort to show my H that I stay with him because I CHOOSE to and not for any other reason.

 

I am also goig to follow Veronese's advice to the letter:

 

Take a step back from him a bit, and while being loving and caring when you feel like that, let him come to you more. Be a little detached. Make him think about your needs, feelings etc. by switching off from him. After all, he's the one who's screwed up, but you're the one putting every last bit of energy into repairing the damage. How must that look to him? He who hasn't really had time to think about it when you've done nothing else? As long as we devote all of ourselves to our partners, especially after they've bloody lied to us, we don't come across in a favourable light. There's no challenge, nothing to work for. We're laid out on a plate for them so we're a safe bet.

 

Veronese, you are also so right when you say that the OW is worth agonising over. I see now that she is not the threat; it is my husband's ego that is the threat and I have had a hand in over-inflating it.

 

To loveto learn,

 

Thanks for sharing - it all helps, even when you think you're just venting. I have been thinking so much about what you've said too

 

"We have worked on repairing our marriage and we are doing alright but my feelings towards her have changed and I feel like I can never love her the way I did before. It is very difficult for me to put a full effort back into repairing my marriage when deep down my heart is really not totaly in it. We get along fine and our family life is pretty decent but I am having a hard time getting back to a state of contentment. "

 

I totally feel what you've said. I don't feel like my H is the same person but in a way that's no bad thing. I realise he is not the god that I thought he was (he never was). I have also realised that I won't get EVERYTHING I need from this relationship so I need to start working on the things I need.

 

The other thing I've finally realised is that our relationship will never go back the way it was. I spent so much time mourning the good old days and now I have come to the conclusion that I have to work on what we have. It's almost like starting a new relationship. During one of our really bad fights, I opened the front door and threw my wedding ring out into the street. We never found it again and in a way, I don't mind so much now. I know that sounds really pessimistic and maybe a bit 'sour grapes' but that's not how I feel. In my mind that relationship has ended and it's time for a new one to begin.

 

 

Sorry if this is a bit garbled but reading your thoughts has helped me immensely (may not need the counsellor now). I have been doing the loving but detached thing all day and I can see it's causing a bit of perplextion.

 

Thanks Veronese, for the tips especially. They are really useful. Lovetolearn hang in there. If you've stuck it out this long, it might just be worth fighting for.

 

Hugs to you all,

Sylvia

[lovetolearn]

I wanted to quote you as well but I don't have a clue how to do it either. When you said "From now on I am going to make the effort to show my H that I stay with him because I CHOOSE to and not for any other reason. " you hit the nail on the head. This may be be the only way he will "find" the time to think about what he has done. I've always believed that a marriage has to have close to to a 50/50 emotional balance between partners for each of them to really appreciate each other but unfortunately when one of them finds another person for an emotional outlet it gives them a safety net - if things don't work out with their spouse then they always have the other person and vice-versa. Unfortunately for us (suckers maybe?) our sense of values causes us to deal with the problem one on one without our partner fearing us running off to someone else like they did. This gives them the feeling that we don't have anywhere to go and therefore they don't have the same sense of urgency about working things out.

 

It's a cruel fact of life but it seems that sometimes the only way to get someone to wake up and listen to what is going on is to be tough - make them feel threatened through either obvious or subliminal means so they will realize the significance of their actions. I think the hard part though is for people like like us to stick to this because it goes against our nature - we aren't the ones who want to take our feelings outside our marriage or hurt the other person. Maybe the best way to wake the other person up is to work on ourselves to the point where we are not dependent on them for our happiness, like you said we should choose to be with them, and not be a slave to our emotional fears of loosing them.

[ThumbingMyWay]

how to quote:

 

on the bottem right hand corner of every post is the "quote" button. Click that and it will open a new post window with the entire post quote but in HTML form. its pretty simple actually. Just start and end with the words quote like this, BUT without the spaces inside the brackets:

 

[ quote ] Love Boat Captain [ /quote ]

 

the first one starts the quote....and the last one with the "slash" will end the quote.

 

this is what is looks like without the spaces:

 

Love Boat Captain

[Owl]

Sylvia-

 

Sorry its taken me so long to respond to your post...if you look at some of the other threads around, you'll see that I've been going through something of a slump as well right now.

 

I can say that during the initial discovery time and the subsequent weeks where she was in withdrawl for the OM, yeah, I'd come to the conclusion a few times then that I didn't know her, that she wasn't the same person that I'd fallen in love with. That came out during one of our "discussions" then as well. I've never been an "attack the person" kinda guy...I'd rather solve the problem. But she'd made some statement or another about me loving her...and I told her then "you know, with the way your acting and what you've done, not only are you finally making me doubt whether I love you, I'm not sure I even LIKE you anymore". It was a wake up call for her at the time. Up to this point, she'd seen me working my butt off trying to save our marriage...and she realized that she'd pushed me to a point where I was seriously considering giving up. She has always assumed that I'd be there for her...even if just as her friend.

 

We had counseling this past Friday...and it was the worst session we've had since June, when we fought over her wanting to keep contact with the OM as "just friends". We're still struggling with how we manage problems, and we had a major blowout the week before on something. This weekend while we were talking about it, and both pretty loving with each other, we talked about being friends. And she said "you know, I'll always be your friend, no matter what". Not that she was saying that something is going to happen...but wanted to reassure me that she'd always be here for me. I told her "Remember this...my love for you is at least as strong as my feelings of friendship for you...if not stronger. If anything happens to destroy that love, I don't see how we could ever remain friends as well. Whatever betrays or destroys that love, would have to be strong enough to do the same to the friendship." It made her stop and think.

 

Sorry for the long-winded response. You're doing the right things friend. And I can second the advice you've gotten from others telling you that it does get easier over time...the pain does start to fade, and you can and will make it through it. There are going to be times when you've got doubt, and things will bother you again...but you can and will make it through it.

 

I can tell you from my whopping seven months into the trip...you're marriage will NOT ever be the same as what it was. Your innocent trust of your husband is gone...and it won't ever be the same again. You will doubt at times now when you never would have before. But that doesn't mean that your love for him (or his for you) is any less, nor does it mean that you won't or can't have a great relationship. It means you are less innocent than you were before. And even if you were to end this marriage and find someone else, that innocence is still gone. You'll still find yourself doubting and checking your spouse. Don't take it as a loss to your marriage...just another step in your growth as a person.

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by lovetolearn

 

our sense of values causes us to deal with the problem one on one without our partner fearing us running off to someone else like they did. This gives them the feeling that we don't have anywhere to go and therefore they don't have the same sense of urgency about working things out. It's a cruel fact of life but it seems that sometimes the only way to get someone to wake up and listen to what is going on is to be tough - make them feel threatened through either obvious or subliminal means so they will realize the significance of their actions. {/QUOTE].

 

You are so right. I asked my husband last night how many times he had been jealous of me over the last 9 years. His answer: not once. He has always been safe in the knowledge that I wasn't going anywhere!

 

 

Originally posted by lovetolearn

 

I think the hard part though is for people like like us to stick to this because it goes against our nature - we aren't the ones who want to take our feelings outside our marriage or hurt the other person. Maybe the best way to wake the other person up is to work on ourselves to the point where we are not dependent on them for our happiness, like you said we should choose to be with them, and not be a slave to our emotional fears of loosing them.

 

Again, I think that is so true. I know in my case that I've been terrified of being left. Now that I see my husband is not the 'perfect partner' I though he was, I am less so. I can see that really he's not that different to anyone else.

 

Sylvia

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by Owl

 

But she'd made some statement or another about me loving her...and I told her then "you know, with the way your acting and what you've done, not only are you finally making me doubt whether I love you, I'm not sure I even LIKE you anymore". It was a wake up call for her at the time. Up to this point, she'd seen me working my butt off trying to save our marriage...and she realized that she'd pushed me to a point where I was seriously considering giving up. She has always assumed that I'd be there for her...even if just as her friend.

 

I can tell you from my whopping seven months into the trip...you're marriage will NOT ever be the same as what it was. Your innocent trust of your husband is gone...and it won't ever be the same again. You will doubt at times now when you never would have before. But that doesn't mean that your love for him (or his for you) is any less, nor does it mean that you won't or can't have a great relationship. It means you are less innocent than you were before. And even if you were to end this marriage and find someone else, that innocence is still gone. You'll still find yourself doubting and checking your spouse. Don't take it as a loss to your marriage...just another step in your growth as a person.

 

Owl, I can totally relate to feelings of not even liking them anymore. Sometimes it's hard to realise that the person you married is not quite the deal you thought you were getting.

 

Over the last couple of weeks I've come to realise that my marriage will never be the same again. I've cried so many tears, grieving over what I'd lost that I've no tears left now. I just wanted a fairy wand to make it all go away. I agree that even if I left and had another relationship that I wouldn't be the same person. I've kind of moved on a bit from feeling incredibly lonely to thinking that I will be strong for myself.

 

Sorry to hear that you are going through a rough patch Owl. Was it just the counselling session that prompted it? I'll look through the rest of the post for the full story!

 

Sylvia

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

Over the last couple of weeks I've come to realise that my marriage will never be the same again. I've cried so many tears, grieving over what I'd lost that I've no tears left now. I just wanted a fairy wand to make it all go away. I agree that even if I left and had another relationship that I wouldn't be the same person. I've kind of moved on a bit from feeling incredibly lonely to thinking that I will be strong for myself.

 

Sylvia

 

Sylvia,

 

I feel EXACTLY the same way. My marriage will never be the same. And its hard. BUT I know in my heart that things will work out....it just wont be the same.

 

But like Owl posted once before and it made alot of sense. he said "I dont what to get back to normal, because normal got us in this situation. We need to get to a better place to make this work". Those words are SOOOO true.

 

And I am truely starting to believe that I will be OK, becasue I am a stronger and better person than I was before.

 

They had a good sermon at church yesterday. Basically was saying that, you need to accept things as they are, leave your bad memories behind, forgive the past and accept and trust in the future, and choose to look forward with a renewed love to life and God.

 

It set well with me, it made sense with me. I just need to love and make it work. be positive and accept what life gives me....what ever it may be. Trust that God will show me the way......

 

When all this went down....I found God again...and it helped greatly.....and then the last month or so....I kinda let him fade away a bit....but after this past Sunday.....I know now that I need to let him back in and trust in Him....he gives me strength if I let him in. It feels good for me. It gives me a sense of calm to know that whatever happens...He is there and I will be ok.

[Owl]

Sylvia- The rough time started a few weeks ago, and our counseling session was a major catastrophe because we've done such a good job of working through our issues there before, and we got NOTHING resolved in this last one.

 

Basically, it falls back on one of the biggest flaws in our marriage, which is how we deal with disagreemants between the wife and I. She gets angry easily, and when confronted with a problem is more likely to just lash out. I don't get angry as easily, and tend to attack the problem, not the persons involved. BUT...once I'm angry, its ugly. So, there is a major breakdown on how to deal with things sometimes. What makes it worse is that my wife can be damned insistent on doing things her way...and often, I let her have her way, and just work through the problem as we're going along. Weekend before last, we had a huge issue going, and I did NOT think that what she was going to do would help, on the contrary I thought it would make matters much worse. THAT lead to a HUGE BLOWUP between the two of us...and she said a few things that hurt me far worse than she realized or intended. She'd commented that I "hadn't changed", and that our marriage was just as bad as it was before. She knows she hurt me...but doesn't know how much. Then when we just argued in the counselor's office Friday and couldn't come to an agreemant, I felt worse than I have about our whole marriage than I have in months.

 

I'm tired. I have done everything I can to work out things between us, but sometimes I get so beat down its not funny. I know she can't understand how I feel, and I'm tired of feeling this way myself. She was the one who screwed up, not me. I had my share of faults, and I've busted my butt trying to fix them...but it seems like she doesnt' see that, nor does she work as hard at figuring out HER faults and fixing them.

 

Again...this is Owl on the downside of things. I'll be back to being optimistic and positive soon, but the view sucks from here at the moment.

[Joyce]

owl,

 

You have offered me so many encouraging words and advice it truly saddens me to see you so down in the dumps.

 

Communication is the most important thing in a marriage. Tell her how much her words hurt you. It won't solve your problems but it will help bring the two of you closer. Has your counselor helped with suggestions for both of you on how to channel anger and have more effective communication? She needs to make a conscious effort to calm down before she lashes out angry hurtful words and you should try to talk to her about your feelings before it builds up and it's too late.

 

Does your wife blame you for the affair? Having been in your wife's shoes I don't understand where she is coming from. I can understand why you are angry but I don't understand why she is.

 

TMW,

 

It great to see you feeling better

[Owl]

Joyce-

 

Thanks for the support friend. Does my wife blame me for the affair...actually a good question. I can't say that she knows exactly how she feels or what she thinks on that subject. When the affair was found out, she absolutely blamed me for the affair. That was what made our counselings pretty tough...the way she phrased a lot of her responses made me feel like that she was trying to say it was my fault...and before I could say anything, the counselor (different counselor from now) actually stopped her and made her re-phrase things...told her that she needed to start accepting the responsibility for the decision to have the affair. Needless to say, the wife didn't take that well...LOL.

 

Since then, she's said a few times that what happened was not my fault...that it was her own fault for letting things go so far. But as far as how she really feels, I can't say that I know for sure...I'm not sure she's admitted it to herself yet.

 

As far as her anger...its just how she reacts to most negative situations. It has always been one of the main issues in our marriage, which is one of the reasons why I'm still hoping we can work through a better way to deal with it through counseling. This setback is really the first major problem we've had since the affair came out and we worked through the NC issues.

 

We did have a better weekend...we both felt horrible when we came out of counseling without having settled the problem...and my wife seemed to realize somewhat how hurt I was and how little I liked the fact that she couldn't/wouldn't try compromising, so she's been a lot more loving and supportive since.

 

Our counselor is going to change tacks for a bit, and make this issue a top priority in our sessions. He's not dumb either...he seemed pretty distressed when we couldn't resolve it, and I am sure he realizes how critical this is going to be for us.

 

I think that part of the problem is that I'm still really "sensitive" since we went through everything last spring. I'm a lot more inclined to take things personally than I would have been before...a lot more likely to take it as a failure on my part, or a setback when maybe its not.

 

One of the things we've decided to do on our own however....she picked up a copy of "The Five Languages of Love", and we're going to start working through that together. Having read through the intro and chapter, I think it does have a lot of pertinence to our situation. We don't speak the same "love languages", and we're not good at communicating our love to each other in ways that the other is able to understand.

 

You know, it really is screwy when you think about it. I know she loves me, she knows I love her. I know that the affair is over and done...so why in the hell are we still struggling so bad!!!!! ( I know...same advice as I've given everyone else...its all part of the ups and downs, and I've just got to hold on until the next upswing.)

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by Owl

When the affair was found out, she absolutely blamed me for the affair. That was what made our counselings pretty tough...the way she phrased a lot of her responses made me feel like that she was trying to say it was my fault...

Since then, she's said a few times that what happened was not my fault...that it was her own fault for letting things go so far. But as far as how she really feels, I can't say that I know for sure...I'm not sure she's admitted it to herself yet.

 

I think that part of the problem is that I'm still really "sensitive" since we went through everything last spring. I'm a lot more inclined to take things personally than I would have been before...a lot more likely to take it as a failure on my part, or a setback when maybe its not.

 

Owl,

 

I'm so sorry things are rough for you. I know just how that feels, it's like being back to square one, right? As well as your wife taking responsibility for the affair, you've got to absolve yourself of it. You did not drive her to have an affair - it was 100% her choice. She could have chosen an alternative like talking to you, going to counselling etc.

 

It seems though that most of the burden for patching up the marriage seems to be falling on you and that you take it more to heart when things go wrong. Try taking a step back and being a bit more detached. Let your wife see that she's going to have to do some work.

 

When I read the posts from Veronese (on this thread) about being loving but detached, I decided to try it over the weekend. It's the first time I've seen my husband look really worried. I am not screaming and ranting or clinging on to him. It really has given him a shake up.

 

Let your wife see that a two-way effort is required. If she's not going to be prepared to do some thinking about her own behaviour, it ain't gonna work.

 

Hang in there Owl. We all know that the only way from rock bottom is up. Thinking of you.

 

Sylvia

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

..... Try taking a step back and being a bit more detached. Let your wife see that she's going to have to do some work.

 

When I read the posts from Veronese (on this thread) about being loving but detached, I decided to try it over the weekend. It's the first time I've seen my husband look really worried. I am not screaming and ranting or clinging on to him. It really has given him a shake up.

 

Sylvia

 

 

what do you mean by this?.....just kinda back off a bit on the touching and loving comments?...or what?

 

I might try this......I get hints that maybe I am still too smothering....maybe a little stepback time is needed?

[Owl]

Sylvia-Thanks for the suggestion...I've sorta started something along those lines already. The problem to me is that she doesn't seem to see that she has to work at this. In truth, I think that I've given her too much...its been too long since she's had to work at much of anything.

 

Feeling a little better today...hope the trend continues.

[sylviaguardian]

I don't mean cold, in a kind of threatening way. I mean still being loving etc but not giving the impression that you are desperately clinging on. I suppose by getting more involved in outside things. It's a kind of 'putting the ball back in your court' type thing. I've realised that my husband has to get it into his head that he needs to fight for me a bit now and I've stopped being the initiator of everything. One of the things that shocked him a bit was me saying that I've resigned myself now to how things are and it's a wait and see kind of approach.

 

Before I was really worried about Christmas for example, and wondering how we could ever get together enough to have a really happy Christmas. I told him that now I wasn't worried - my expectations are lower and I know that we won't be screaming and arguing on Christmas day but that my only objective is to let the kids enjoy their day. He seemed a bit miffed at that.

 

Hope this all makes sense. I am off for our first counselling session in a minute. Bit scary and I am very nervous - wish me luck!

 

Sylvia

[Owl]

Good luck on the counseling! It has really paid off for the wife and I...and I hope it does the same for you!! It WON'T be easy...but it CAN help!

[whichwayisup]

Therapy DOES help, just takes time, commitment and the desire...So hang in there.

 

OK Just throwing this in here....

 

Maybe it's cuz I watched Tuesday's with Morrie lastnigt on TV (me abit emotional today?? LOL!)...But I gotta say...

 

DazednConfused, Owl and Reservoirdog1...You guys are awesome!!!! This place would not be the same without ya! The words, compassion and advice you all give is incredible...Spoken from the heart, sadly through each of your experiences, but you guys are really great!!

[lovetolearn]

I just read both your posts ( Owl's and Sylvia's) and it immediately made me feel better . I just made an appointment to get counseling next wed. I'm going to try to sort through my feelings first and if the counselor is good My wife will also see him and hopefully we will eventually both go together. Thanks Sylvia for starting this post - It made me realize how much I have been suppressing my feelings. I keep thinking I can deal with everything but all I have been doing is pretending that I'm OK. I hope you let us know how the counseling went, I have always been a little leary of getting "professional help".

[sylviaguardian]

Oh dear - just as this thread starts to pick up and people are feeling a bit better, I'm now going to go on a downer again. I apologise in advance but need to vent!

 

Last night we went to the counsellor - like some of the people here I have been wary about going to see one. My reaction to it took me completely by surprise because I got there and as soon as I started to speak, I burst out crying! I was totally surprised because up until that point things had been going better.

 

Anyway, the counsellor was good - she made us relaxed and it was good to talk in turn without screaming at each other. She was very perceptive. I noticed that when she asked my husband a question that he evaded she sat very still for a long time and didn't say anything. Anyway, it seemed quite helpful, obviously it's early days yet.

 

I had to go straight out after the counselling session and I suddenly felt really down. When I go back in at 1am I was boiling with anger. Some of the things that my husband had said during the session popped back into my head. She asked him whether he had changed his behaviour when he went from being single to being married and he admitted he hadn't. Then she asked him how he felt when he had said his marriage vows, whether he had taken them literally or had just thought it was a part of tradition. He said a part of tradition. This was news to me.

 

I feel like I'm right back at square one. I can see what the biggest problem was in our marriage now - he didn't really take it seriously!

 

I never mentioned this, but before we got married, my husband had a friend, an older woman who he was VERY close to. They were friends before we met and although I knew that her intentions were not good towards our relationship, he carried on seeing her just the same as before and ignored how I felt. It caused so much stress that we postponed our wedding.

 

How the hell have I got myself into this. I've been 100% married to a man who has only been 50% married to me for the last seven years. I am now seriously considering whether I want to continue in this relationship. All it has done is grind me down. He says he will change but I don't really know if he could do it. Help!!

 

Sylvia

[lovetolearn]

I guess I'm kind of where you are - I have to face the fact, no matter how much it hurts, that my partner does not love me as much as I love her. I keep thinking that there is a way to fix it but really in the end the only thing to fix is me. Maybe one day her love will get back close to where we were ( we have had a great relationship for over 10 years and still have a lot of reasons to stay together ) but in the end I am only in control of my own emotions and actions. Time to concentrate on my inner self instead of a world I can't control. I hope you are feeling better today -take care

[whichwayisup]

had to go straight out after the counselling session and I suddenly felt really down. When I go back in at 1am I was boiling with anger. Some of the things that my husband had said during the session popped back into my head

 

Carry a note book with you at all times...When you start to feel anything and it is upsetting you, stop and write it all out. Will make you feel better and also may help in couples T as well.

 

Is this woman still around? Does he talk to her/email her or even see her?

 

Then she asked him how he felt when he had said his marriage vows, whether he had taken them literally or had just thought it was a part of tradition. He said a part of tradition. This was news to me.

 

Talk to him about it...The word 'tradition' doesn't mean that he didn't take it all to heart. I hope you believe that Syl.

 

I hope it gets better for you and sorry you're having a down day.

 

Hugs!

WWIU