MM's wife called me today

[fanine]

I hope you have now got full closure and can move on fully and be happy.

[jlola]

Will try to answer specific questions and then give the latest developments. Just hung up the phone with her.

 

When I said 'once again' this is what I meant.

 

He left my place to go back there and finalize the divorce and pack the rest of his stuff. I'm not sure at what point he decided to stay, but he did.

 

At one point, I think about 6 weeks after he left here, he told me something vague like 'things are not going the way I had planned and this is going to take me longer than I thought. I will not ask you to wait for me, you have waited too long already'.

 

I took that as my cue to move on and start dating because to me, he was obviously being vague for a reason and I had ASSSUMED he had gone back to his wife although he didn't tell me. It's an obvious assumption but he never said it specifically.

 

Then about a month later he calls me and tells me that he is talking to her that evening and that as long as I will still have him, he will be moving here to be with me and that's when we discussed specifics about living arrangements, him getting a job, etc.

 

Well that never happened. So when I say decided to stay with his wife 'again' that's what I meant. When he went back the first time he told me it was to help his adult son with something, to possibly put his place on the market if she couldn't afford to keep it and to pack the rest of his stuff.

 

I'm not sure when or how or why but at some point he obviously got back together with her.

 

Anyway.

 

So she called me again and I called her back. She said she is getting conflicting information from him and wants to hear from me what is going on. She said that he has promised her that we wouldn't be in touch any longer but then she found some e-mails over the weekend and she wants to know if and why we are still talking.

 

She did say a lot of things to me that confirm that she knows all about me and what happened. At one point she said 'I know that he has fallen in love with you and you two were planning on spending the rest of your lives together'.

 

I told her that I knew he had decided to stay there, that he was still there with her so that's where he wanted to be and that I had moved on and was dating again. I agreed that it would be inappropriate for us to keep in contact if they were going to stay married and I promised her that I would not reach out to him again.

 

She actually apologized and said if she had not kicked him out that this would not have happened and I seem like a nice person and she was sorry I had gotten involved in their mess. She said she was sorry over and over.

 

I told her that I was sorry, that if I had any idea their marriage wasn't over that I wouldn't have gotten involved either. I told her that wasn't my style to lure away a married man. He had told me it was over and that's the information I went with.

 

So we actually had a nice chat. In the conversation, I now know that he was honest about some things and had lied about others.

 

I'm happy I called her. And I'm definitely moving on.

 

 

I can never undestand why OW and BS refuse to talk to each other. that plays right into WS's hand.

 

The wife seems very nice and I have heard this over and over again. hen a good friend's husband had an affair, she too was very polite and respectful when she called OW to ask for answers as she did not believe her husband. OW refused to call her back and when she did finally pick up, she told my friend she did not want to "interfere" and to talk to Ws.

 

I once picked up my cheating sister's home phone. She was divorced from husband #3 and dating a medical resident. The woman on the other line was very polite and explained she found the number on boyfriend's phone and a few text. I was apologetic and told her my sister would call when she was out of the shower. My sister refused to call her back, but went into a depression and did not go to work for weeks. She literally would not call or get out of bed. I kept telling her she needs to talk to this woman. She did continue with the affair and it ended badly. Not so bad that she did not marry husband #4 and #5 .

 

Years later I still never got a full explanation of why my sister refused to call back. it is as if the Bs was competition and therefore nothing she had to say is important. the only one who she was relying on to tell the truth was the man who caused this mess in the first place.

 

I do commend the betrayed girlfriend for being so polite and actually understanding her BF was "probably " lying when she asked him his version of the relationship. She just called to see if the stories matched.

 

If more BS's and OW would get together instead of thinking they were enemies, perhaps the cake eating ,future faking and lying would stop!! The enemy is WS.

[ladydesigner]

If more BS's and OW would get together instead of thinking they were enemies, perhaps the cake eating ,future faking and lying would stop!! The enemy is WS.

 

Sing it sista! That is it right there in a nutshell. MOW lied to me on DDay and so did my WH. She even went as far as to taunt me and let me know that everything (their A relationship) is just 'smoke and mirrors' to me (because I was in the dark, and I was).

 

I am really happy I did my own investigative work because I found out the true state of their A on my own. It would have saved me 5 months time and it would be clear as to WHO was being 'played' because if he wanted to be with her, I was like 'knock yourself out'

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

What had he lied about? (I only ask as I feel this thread is extremely enlightening and helpful). I too. Am glad to hear of the BS and OW speaking open and honestly.

 

Actually in thinking more about it, I don't even know who was lying and when. I just know that their stories don't match on some things but there are other things that she said that lines up. Like when she says that we were planning out our future together, she is right about that. She did say she knows he loves me. So I guess in some ways it showed me that he wasn't lying when he said that she knows about me.

 

She said 'I know you were having an emotional affair earlier this year' and we were not. I was dating someone else at that point, our e-mails were just friendly. I actually just went back and read them and they were nothing but friendly. Me talking about the kids, him telling me about his job and his kids. He did tell me his marriage was on the rocks and that they had separated many times and there were some e-mails where I was giving him advice but IMO it never crossed a line. I told him I had a spare room and he was welcome here. We have been friends since I was a kid and we have been in touch on and off through the years. It never crossed a line, actually he was more like an older brother to me at the time. So I don't know if she was trying to get information out of me by bringing that up but I said to her 'I respectfully disagree with that' and she let it go.

 

He told me that he told her about me a while ago, she told me she found out recently. She said that he lets her read his emails and gives her full access whereas he said she hacked into his account recently. Conflicting info of course.

 

She mentioned that it was tough for her to read in the e-mails that he said things were rough between them and that they were fighting because that wasn't the case they had not been fighting at all. Their marriage was good.

 

She said to me 'he lies all the time. He doesn't know how to tell the truth'.

 

I'm more inclined to believe she did figure out his password and look at those e-mails why would he give her access when the e-mails would bury him? And to believe that they hadn't been fighting when she apparently JUST found out about me? I have a hard time believing that either.

 

I suspect it's like any other situation like this and he will have his story and she will have her story and the truth probably lies in the middle somewhere.

 

She contradicted herself a lot the more I think about it. Once saying they were 'on a break, they decided they needed a break from each other' and then later saying to me 'I kicked him out of the house, this wouldn't have happened had I not done that I'm sorry you got involved in our mess'. Well what was it? Were you on a break that you both decided and that's why he came here or did you kick him out of the house?

 

She talked down to me a lot and that actually annoys me right now. She said 'honey, he's been lying to you this whole time'. Like I was a kid.

 

I suspect I will never really know the truth about a lot of things and I'm o.k with that at this point.

 

What this phone call did for me was just show me that you never really know what you're dealing with when you get involved with someone who isn't really 'done' with their marriage. They are clearly not done and I will not stand in their way for sure. I got involved because I thought his marriage was over. I thought it was a matter of finalizing paperwork. I still talked to him when he went back because I believed him when he said he was finalizing the divorce and deciding what to do with the house.

 

I know more than ever that I am done though. I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

I'm still talking to the other guy and I think a date is coming up so I will focus my energy on that. I am glad I talked to her because even though I'm still fuzzy on a lot of things, it did give me closure and I will move on without looking over my shoulder to see if he will come back.

[carhill]

There's three sides to this thing and the truth is somewhere lost in the milieu and likely will always be ambiguous. What such affairs taught me was to accept the real, in this case there is no judgement of dissolution so they're legally married and hence not available to other parties for legitimate relationships. They can of course choose to be in any relationship they wish, as can you. The relationship which prompted this thread is one example of a potential realized. There are many potentials.

 

You had the conversation and it appears to have remained civil. Now you can proceed to make your decisions as to next steps. Having dated a number of women 'unclear' about their feelings, my advice would be to take some alone time to clarify them before dating in any substantive way. You know first-hand what it feels like to invest in someone who's ambivalent. Men invest too. IMO, be clear about where you're 'at' right now with men you date. Pay that lesson forward. Good luck.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

It's definitely a mess I wish I hadn't gotten involved in. I really didn't realize what I was getting myself into when I got involved and now that I know, I will keep my distance.

 

The funny thing is that I don't know what to believe anymore so even though I think it's a good thing we talked, it didn't clear things up for me at all.

 

I know this sounds like an excuse, but we have been friends so long that I think it will be hard for him to not contact me on a friend level. I haven't figured out what I will say to him exactly when he does reach out and I think you're right, I think he will.

 

I will tell him that as long as he's married we shouldn't be in touch and leave it at that. For us to be friends for all of these years is very much different from me being someone he had an affair with. Once that line was crossed it changes things. So it's not appropriate at all. And since their stories are so conflicting I'm not sure what was the truth and what was a lie so I wouldn't know what to believe if he told me it was over. I wouldn't believe him unless I saw divorce papers.

 

If he were to call me 6 months from now and be able to show me divorce papers, then we'll see. But as long as he's still married I want no part.

 

For the most part I wouldn't say our talk gave me closure but it just showed me how messy the situation is and gave me resolve to not be involved as a friend even.

 

I got to thinking about this more. Her second VM said to me 'I am getting conflicting information from him I just want to clear some things up with you, I will only take a few minutes of your time'. But then when I called her back she didn't ask me anything. She did most of the talking.

 

She didn't ask me if we had been in touch she said 'I know you still talk I have read the e-mails' she didn't say 'are you making plans for him to move there with you?' she said 'I know you were making plans for him to move there and spend the rest of your lives together. I have told him he is free to go but he has decided to stay and I think he's afraid to tell you'. She said 'honey, he's been lying to you' like she was talking to a kid. She said 'It hurts me to read in his e-mails that we have been fighting because we haven't been'. It's all a little odd to me but strengthens my resolve to not be involved.

 

It was almost like her round about way to tell me to back off without being mean and nasty about it. She asked me nothing actually about what happened. I would think if she was trying to 'clear things up' she would ask me details but she didn't.

 

Anyway. Moving on, moving on.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

There's three sides to this thing and the truth is somewhere lost in the milieu and likely will always be ambiguous. What such affairs taught me was to accept the real, in this case there is no judgement of dissolution so they're legally married and hence not available to other parties for legitimate relationships. They can of course choose to be in any relationship they wish, as can you. The relationship which prompted this thread is one example of a potential realized. There are many potentials.

 

You had the conversation and it appears to have remained civil. Now you can proceed to make your decisions as to next steps. Having dated a number of women 'unclear' about their feelings, my advice would be to take some alone time to clarify them before dating in any substantive way. You know first-hand what it feels like to invest in someone who's ambivalent. Men invest too. IMO, be clear about where you're 'at' right now with men you date. Pay that lesson forward. Good luck.

 

Thank you Carhill. Much appreciated and I agree.

 

I have a friend who often will remind me of the simple facts. He's there with her, he's still married, that's all you need to know.

 

She's exactly right it really is that simple. He can promise me everything but if he's doing it from the house he shares with her, it means nothing.

 

I have learned my lesson for sure!!

[MrNate 2.0]

There's three sides to this thing and the truth is somewhere lost in the milieu and likely will always be ambiguous. What such affairs taught me was to accept the real, in this case there is no judgement of dissolution so they're legally married and hence not available to other parties for legitimate relationships. They can of course choose to be in any relationship they wish, as can you. The relationship which prompted this thread is one example of a potential realized. There are many potentials.

 

You had the conversation and it appears to have remained civil. Now you can proceed to make your decisions as to next steps. Having dated a number of women 'unclear' about their feelings, my advice would be to take some alone time to clarify them before dating in any substantive way. You know first-hand what it feels like to invest in someone who's ambivalent. Men invest too. IMO, be clear about where you're 'at' right now with men you date. Pay that lesson forward. Good luck.

 

Yep.

 

And we all know three sides make a triangle.

[CarrieT]

What this phone call did for me was just show me that you never really know what you're dealing with when you get involved with someone who isn't really 'done' with their marriage. They are clearly not done and I will not stand in their way for sure. I got involved because I thought his marriage was over. I thought it was a matter of finalizing paperwork. I still talked to him when he went back because I believed him when he said he was finalizing the divorce and deciding what to do with the house.

This is the critical point and I hope you will stick around LS to advise others who are considering such relationships...

 

I once dated a separated guy for about six months; convinced by him that it was just a matter of the paperwork when he ended up going back to his wife. When I started OLD dating again, I met a potential guy who confessed he was just separated but getting divorced who was pissed at ME that I wouldn't consider him. I tried to explain that I had "been-there-done-that" and got the t-shirt.

 

I'm sorry you had to get your t-shirt this way as well...

[veryhappy]

I wish I had written my view before you talked to her. You've been given advice by mostly very moral people who haven't been OW. It sounds nice on paper, but it's not realistic for where you are.

 

Let me tell you where I'm coming from. I have let exMM know very early on, in the first month of the A that I'm not one to meet or talk with his wife if that ever came up and he'd better let her know and deal with his life based on that.

 

Yes, there are a few BW who truly want to know the truth and don't vilify or use the OW. The overwhelming majority? From all I've been reading here they all describe the OW with anything starting at "whore" and it's all "oh I was so sweet to her, but used her to find out what I wanted". You are starting to realize that by going over the conversation, aren't you? "honey?" oh give me a break. Yes, it's the most understandable side to be manipulative, but as an OW on your own right now you need to protect yourself. She has anyone and everyone on her side and it's not your purpose in life to be a martyr for her wellbeing. Let her devoted husband lick her wounds.

 

Don't interact with her anymore. You gave her much more than you needed. You apologized. Done. You've trashed yourself enough. If you find yourself tempted to answer her, read that topic on the infidelity board with the BW going back after 9 months to rattle the OW who has been NC. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. It's only for their benefit and to stump on you to make them feel better and forget it was their spouse causing the pain.

 

All you need to know is that he is a coward man. he's obviously not following through what he told you, and that's the bottom line. You don't need to know the absolute truth of their M. He lied and misled you and that's all you need to know. Making plans of buying a house with you, getting a job and then just ...pretending it never happened. It's so fun, isn't it? Cut him out of your life, old friend or not. The person who treats you like that is not your friend.

 

You take care of yourself, because if you don't, who will? They'll be fine.

Edited September 4, 2013 by cutedragon

[ComingInHot]

canuckP, you Well know I AM a fBW and I do somewhat agree w/you, so Pleeeese don't do the whole classifying thing. "Oh don't listen to them, they're bitter BS's, stick w/US OW's cause We are the Only ones who can Help you..."

 

However, OP, you need to be careful about "continued" communication. Canuck is right that "Some" BS's will sing sweet to you for manipulative reasons only to use anything and everything against you later and publicly.

 

It IS weird she didn't Ask you any questions.

I had only a couple questions;

Please clarify When my H ended the A

Did he tell you ILY

Please forward me proof of pregnancy

 

I needed nothing more to decide how I was going to proceed after that and NEVER wanted to talk to her again.

 

I DO think it was Good for you to speak w/her. I mean if you have the balls to sex it up w/her H, at Least have the balls to own it to her face (or phone)*.

 

Take Care of yourself!!,

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

I have thought a lot more about the phone conversation and listened to her second VM again today (before I deleted both of the VM's).

 

Her VM said she wanted to clarify some information because he was saying one thing but she was seeing evidence of another.

 

And the only thing she seemed to focus on was us still being in contact. She did ask 'are you still in contact?' she said 'I know you are still in contact'. She said to me 'he told me he wouldn't talk to you again but I see you are still e-mailing'.

 

So in hindsight I think this was her nice way of letting me know that they were working on their marriage and we can't be friends and I needed to not be in contact with him.

 

I won't be in contact with him ever again unless he divorces. And when I say that I don't mean I would give him another chance or that I would wait I just mean that I know it's inappropriate for us to be in contact since we have now crossed that line from just being friends. We have been friends since I was about 11. He really is like family to me. If he is divorced and reaches out to me again as I friend I will be his friend. But for now I know it's wrong and one of the last things I said to her is 'I promise I will not be in contact with him'. And I won't.

 

And also, the more I think about it the more I realized how messed up their marriage is and I don't want any part of it.

 

This is a pattern with them. In a 6 year relationship (married 2 of it I think?) they have separated 6 or 7 times (I'm not clear if this was the 6th or 7th). He at one point last year came home from work and her and some of her friends had cleaned out the house and she moved everything to an apartment for her. Left him with a bed and a computer and took everything else. 6 months later she moved back in. And now this time they were separated and he spent all of that time 2000+ miles away with me. Living with me, etc. And he went back. It's dysfunctional at it's best. For some reason they can't break this pattern and I got myself wrapped up in it. Lesson learned.

 

If they can work it out, more power to them. But I'm stepping out of it for sure. So I won't be waiting, I won't be contacting him, etc. I'm moving on.

 

Thank you all for your posts I appreciate the advice

[Speakingofwhich]

 

If they can work it out, more power to them. But I'm stepping out of it for sure. So I won't be waiting, I won't be contacting him, etc. I'm moving on.

 

Thank you all for your posts I appreciate the advice

 

Good decision but so sorry you are losing contact w/someone you've been friends with since the age of 11! It seems as though at some point they'll divorce. With a history like that it's hard to imagine them staying together long term. Way too much drama.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

It is sad with the history we have.

 

In hindsight, I would have much rather kept him as a friend after all of these years than to lose the friendship all together. I took a risk and I lost.

 

I never dreamed it would turn out this way but it has.

 

I also will be surprised if they stay together for the long haul with their history, but at least if they do end up divorced it won't be so that he can be with me. It will be a decision made independent of that, and that would be much better for him in the long run anyway.

[bentleychic]

Cutedragon I can't believe there are actually OW on these boards who are genuinely dispensing such poisonous "advice". You have vilified a woman who has done nothing but try to gain clarity and understanding and perhaps even provide the OP with the same. Not every BW is out to berate and humiliate the OW, especially those like Mrs Ambivalent who were most certainly caught up in someone else's drama.

 

God help the OW who subscribe to your toxic beliefs and take the line that no matter how politely a request for a conversation is made by the BW, it should basically always go unheeded.

I'll be honest, some of the posts by BS on the infidelity board sure make me think twice about how I would react if my MM's W reached out to me.

[bentleychic]

Yeah, but if she reached out to you in a non-confrontational manner? Now if a someone's wife called me up screaming into the phone or left me a voicemail saying I was all types of bitches and whores no, no I probably wouldn't call back or continue to conversation unless I was feeling particularlly contrite. Even if she became belligerant during the phone call all one has to do is simply hang up.

 

No, if she reached out to me in a non-confrontational manner, I would be fine. I would answer what she needed answered, I would apologize, I would do what she needed/wanted me to do.

 

I agree that if she did the latter, not only would I hang up, but I would block her arse quicker than you can say bob's your uncle!

[2sure]

If a BS calls OW to ask questions or share information ...it's hard for her to do, hard for her to admit that she needs information about her life from a stranger, much less OW. She is calling because she has some hope for clarity. It's hard to have a pleasant tone believe me.

 

If she calling all irate, she is calling in the midst of trauma, so best not to participate unless by email.

 

I had to call my X's OWomen, and it sucked. I had to though because I needed to participate, take back some control of my life, even if just by saying "Hey, I'm here, I'm on board and I object." I didn't really have any questions.

 

They did though, and I don't know, I guess it's my dark humor, but some if his bullshyt he told them was hilarious and I had to laugh, not in a sarcastic way but right out loud. For example, his name wasn't Bob.

[bentleychic]

I had to laugh, not in a sarcastic way but right out loud. For example, his name wasn't Bob.

 

Omg! I would laugh in his face if this happened to me, especially after him telling me I know him better than anyone does. I may just call MM "Bob" next time I see him.

 

Makes me wonder a question, I'll post it separately so as not to tj.