Calcmag Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Which particular part of the forum would you like me to read? I suggested this particular part , the OW/OM part. It's helpful in reading about other's experiences, but also because it can help to reinforce the concept of the Script for you. You're coming over as quite naive, as many of us are/were at this honeymoon stage of an affair. Do you talk to your friends about your relationship? What are their views?
Baby123 Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 I wonder why it is so common. It also seems OW in affairs put up with much more pain, baggage and issues than they would if the man was single. I think validation and over the top romance from older men is very attractive to certain women. I think many OW get addicted to this sort of validation and are bored with single men who are not so over the top. Thing with single men is, if they are not toxic they usually will take things slow. LOVE BOMBING ESPECIALLY INITIALLY IS SEEN AS A RED FLAG. MANY SINGLE MEN WHO HAVE THEIR ACTS TOGETHER WILL NOT USE EXCESSIVE FLATTERY, BOND SLOWLY AND REALLY LOOK FOR RED FLAGS ALSO TO SEE IF YOU ARE compatible and what they seek. They wnt to know you and not the "fantasy,honeymoon stage version". This is why they may seem boring. I have been in relationships where it was over the top romance, flattery ,declarations of love and soulmate. I really thought those were "normal" relationships because that is what movies portray. Longing, stolen moments, romance talk, talk of future and children, etc. When a man was not willing to give those things to me initially, within a month at least, I thought they were not interested. Now that I have my head together, I move slowly when it comes to allowing myself to fall in love. I am much more careful in declaring love. Because I know as soon as those words come out, if you have 2 needy people. the relationship is out the gate. And before you know it you two are soulmates,ith rose colored glasses on so tight, no matter how many red flags are in the way, you cannot see them. This is one of the best posts I've read on LS, thank you. The l word changes so much because both people desperately seek it as validation.
Author wrinkledforhead Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 I suggested this particular part , the OW/OM part. It's helpful in reading about other's experiences, but also because it can help to reinforce the concept of the Script for you. You're coming over as quite naive, as many of us are/were at this honeymoon stage of an affair. Do you talk to your friends about your relationship? What are their views? Yes, and we have a few mutual friends (mine originally. Only 3 of his friends know about me, but there's been no hanging out with them yet). My friends do not know it is an A; his friends (obviously) do. There've been no negative comments from those that know us.
Baby123 Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Me and my separated MM have a big age gap, even with me being of higher intellect then him and tbh I still feel manipulated at times.
Calcmag Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Yes, and we have a few mutual friends (mine originally. Only 3 of his friends know about me, but there's been no hanging out with them yet). My friends do not know it is an A; his friends (obviously) do. There've been no negative comments from those that know us. Ok, thanks for the reply. I was just wondering about whether you had someone in RL that you were able to talk to about it.
Quiet Storm Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) Psychological. He could not perform with me while they were still intimate. We were close quite a few times but it just couldn't happen. He's not had a problem with it after that part stopped happening. They had sex once a week prior to our A. She has a low libido and didnt ask for it for some time after he and I became sexually intimate. She didnt miss it for about 4 weeks before she asked what was up. The not performing is "your proof"? I don't see how that proves anything. My bet is that his urologist appointment was to refill his Viagra prescription. He admittedly had sex with her once a week prior to your A. They had a regular sexual relationship. He was still in a relationship with her during your A. You really think that because he now has you as a sexual outlet- he totally stopped all sex with his girlfriend? After they have had a regular sex life for years? I think that is very far fetched, Wrinkled. I think he was having sex with her on the nights he told you they were up crying & fighting. If she feels her relationship is threatened, and he has complained about her low sex drive in the past, she is going to fight hard to keep him. Her tool? Sex. This guy's motivation to cheat is sex, and she knows that. He's done it before, he's doing it now. He even admitted that to you. So if she still wants him, she will be amping it up. There are many smart, educated, successful women in terrible relationships because they are naive and gullible when it comes to men. This man has put you in second place. He has let you down big time, and yet you still post about how he doesn't lie to you. He has no concern for your best interest or the best interest of your children. And yet you trust him, still. After all of this. You are letting your feelings rule you, and they are taking you down the wrong path. It doesn't make any sense, wrinkled. You are not accepting this man for who he is. You are still seeing him the way you wish he would be. He is not that man. I can't even say he's a coward anymore because I think this whole "wanting to leave her" angst could be another manipulation. You are seeing this as "he wants to leave but isn't strong enough to deal with her emotional pain". You feel compassionate and sorry for him. I think the truth is likely to be "He wants to stay with his GF and cheat on her, and doesn't care about either woman's emotional pain". Even if it isn't intentional manipulation and he is just a complete wuss- why do you want that? At 49 he has been around the block. He could sense your vulnerability. You are a single mom. He saw that you needed love, care and attention. He exploits those needs by telling you what you want to hear. His words are making you feel loved and cared about. His attention makes you feel worthy. He knows this and uses it to keep you hooked. Look at the big picture. How can you possibly think he has good character? How has he handled his problems over the years? How has he loved and cared about those he claims to love? Where is his integrity? You say he has compassion but it's only shown in his words, not his actions. He uses his words to get sympathy from you. He wants you to see him as a scared, confused, conflicted, indecisive emotional mess. Poor guy. He puts on the Weak Man mask for you because it's better than admitting the truth. (which I believe is that he wants to stay with his girlfriend, have sex with her, and also have sex and romance on the side.) He'd prefer that you see him as weak and damaged, then as cold and calculating. And it's working! You love him, you defend him, you make excuses, you trust him. In light of all that he has done, you still see him as a potential relationship partner. Why? Why is the love of this man valuable to you? Do you feel that you can get no better? Why are you clinging so hard to this? Why is it this intense in only five month? As far as dating prospects, this guy should be viewed in the same category as addicts, homeless guys, felons, untreated mental illness. And yet, instead of being turned off by his character- you are attracted. You find his love valuable. His love makes you feel special & worthy. Women with healthy self worth would be insulted & disgusted- but you are attracted. I think it would benefit you to explore that. Not just for you, but for your daughters. You are their model for how a woman is supposed to be. Your feelings really reflect a low sense of self worth and I think you should work on that because IT WILL trickle down to your kids. My reply may be harsh, and I did not intend for it to hurt. I just feel that you really need to reign in your emotions for this man. You are mother of two little kids. If you continue in this dance with him, they will surely be affected. Why can't you see that this man has the potential to emotionally harm you (he already has)? You need to protect yourself from further emotional harm by staying completely away from him. This man, his patterns, his coping skills, his manipulations...he would never be a good influence in your children's lives. You need to build an imaginary fence around your little family and PROTECT them from people like this, not invite an emotional basketcase into their lives. I know you had a lot of hope, but please don't let that hope keep you stuck. You have accomplished a lot, you have goals, you have two beautiful babies- there is so much for you to be happy about. Focus on the good things in your life- things that are authentic and true. Edited September 4, 2013 by Quiet Storm 11
Calcmag Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 The not performing is "your proof"? I don't see how that proves anything. My bet is that his urologist appointment was to refill his Viagra prescription. He admittedly had sex with her once a week prior to your A. They had a regular sexual relationship. He was still in a relationship with her during your A. You really think that because he now has you as a sexual outlet- he totally stopped all sex with his girlfriend? After they have had a regular sex life for years? I think that is very far fetched, Wrinkled. I think he was having sex with her on the nights he told you they were up crying & fighting. If she feels her relationship is threatened, and he has complained about her low sex drive in the past, she is going to fight hard to keep him. Her tool? Sex. This guy's motivation to cheat is sex, and she knows that. He's done it before, he's doing it now. He even admitted that to you. So if she still wants him, she will be amping it up. There are many smart, educated, successful women in terrible relationships because they are naive and gullible when it comes to men. This man has put you in second place. He has let you down big time, and yet you still post about how he doesn't lie to you. He has no concern for your best interest or the best interest of your children. And yet you trust him, still. After all of this. You are letting your feelings rule you, and they are taking you down the wrong path. It doesn't make any sense, wrinkled. You are not accepting this man for who he is. You are still seeing him the way you wish he would be. He is not that man. I can't even say he's a coward anymore because I think this whole "wanting to leave her" angst could be another manipulation. You are seeing this as "he wants to leave but isn't strong enough to deal with her emotional pain". You feel compassionate and sorry for him. I think the truth is likely to be "He wants to stay with his GF and cheat on her, and doesn't care about either woman's emotional pain". Even if it isn't intentional manipulation and he is just a complete wuss- why do you want that? At 49 he has been around the block. He could sense your vulnerability. You are a single mom. He saw that you needed love, care and attention. He exploits those needs by telling you what you want to hear. His words are making you feel loved and cared about. His attention makes you feel worthy. He knows this and uses it to keep you hooked. Look at the big picture. How can you possibly think he has good character? How has he handled his problems over the years? How has he loved and cared about those he claims to love? Where is his integrity? You say he has compassion but it's only shown in his words, not his actions. He uses his words to get sympathy from you. He wants you to see him as a scared, confused, conflicted, indecisive emotional mess. Poor guy. He puts on the Weak Man mask for you because it's better than admitting the truth. (which I believe is that he wants to stay with his girlfriend, have sex with her, and also have sex and romance on the side.) He'd prefer that you see him as weak and damaged, then as cold and calculating. And it's working! You love him, you defend him, you make excuses, you trust him. In light of all that he has done, you still see him as a potential relationship partner. Why? Why is the love of this man valuable to you? Do you feel that you can get no better? Why are you clinging so hard to this? Why is it this intense in only five month? As far as dating prospects, this guy should be viewed in the same category as addicts, homeless guys, felons, untreated mental illness. And yet, instead of being turned off by his character- you are attracted. You find his love valuable. His love makes you feel special & worthy. Women with healthy self worth would be insulted & disgusted- but you are attracted. I think it would benefit you to explore that. Not just for you, but for your daughters. You are their model for how a woman is supposed to be. Your feelings really reflect a low sense of self worth and I think you should work on that because IT WILL trickle down to your kids. My reply may be harsh, and I did not intend for it to hurt. I just feel that you really need to reign in your emotions for this man. You are mother of two little kids. If you continue in this dance with him, they will surely be affected. Why can't you see that this man has the potential to emotionally harm you (he already has)? You need to protect yourself from further emotional harm by staying completely away from him. This man, his patterns, his coping skills, his manipulations...he would never be a good influence in your children's lives. You need to build an imaginary fence around your little family and PROTECT them from people like this, not invite an emotional basketcase into their lives. I know you had a lot of hope, but please don't let that hope keep you stuck. You have accomplished a lot, you have goals, you have two beautiful babies- there is so much for you to be happy about. Focus on the good things in your life- things that are authentic and true. I've seen some really excellent posts here today. This is one more of them. I really, really hope OP is hearing some of what's being said. 2
AlwaysGrowing Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Married persons have a very shallow dating pool. That is why, it is over the top, ridiculous really (what one would expect from a 13 year old girl). They don't have any other "selling features". Did I read correctly I'm a psych major and have a good insight as to how humans operate. So...with all your "psych" knowledge...what would you say about a woman who knowingly gets involved with a person already in a committed relationship? How about a woman "who wants to be his support"? Or a woman who flaunts her affair in front of her friends and children? Yes. He opens and communicates honestly. And still. He has broken his words a few times. Not frequently, and usually with just cause. And of course I always understand, because I'm the mistress. I say that with a small bit of bitterness. And then again he always works to understand me, too. It's not one-sided. How does that exist with....Last night was to answer questions. She doesn't understand. She's in denial its over. She offered to work through it. He shut that down. or how you...... I'm falling apart. I've been in a state of shock. I shook for three hours. I can't stop staring at walls. I can't make sense of this. I can't eat. My body rejects it. My sleep is haunted by nightmares. I can't make sense of this. but say about the bs.... She's in denial its over. You see...for some..who lack empathy..they never feel the pain of others....their own???? OFF THE CHARTS!!!!!!!!! You state you lost two friends over the summer...why? Another friend....just lost a child...and where is your head?....oh yeah...feeling bad about it not being a "clean" break for you mm. We are weak in this way. Is this what healthy relationships look like to you....each bringing each other down to the lowest character trait each of you have? I demand what anyone wants--a loving, monogamous, commited relationship, So how does that play out in affairland? You choose someone who is not any of that....but demand it from them...who by their own actions...says that is not who they are? I see a huge disconnect here. While you spend so much time...trying to figure out what is in his head...(a fools errand), you rob yourself of the gift of why you entered into something so messed up. 5
Speakingofwhich Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Quiet Storm, I try to PM you and a message came up saying that you don't accept Private Messages. Are you aware of that setting or do you just prefer not to get PMs? Thanks.
Anna-Belle Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) I acknowledge that I *could* be being lied to. I choose to believe him. Hes not yet given me a reason not to. And this is the only way to have a relationship. It doesn't mean you close your eyes if something comes up, it means your relationship is based on trust. There are a lot of posts on this thread trying to fill your head with doubts. At such a vulnerable time in your relationship I would avoid nurturing thoughts like that. If you haven't had a reason to doubt him before, why would you suddenly now? He's the same man as before, just facing a difficult task. A task which may prove to be insurmountable but that is yet to be seen. The best thing for you to do for your relationship at this time is to trust the love, trust the bond, between the two of you. Edited September 4, 2013 by Anna-Belle 1
AlwaysGrowing Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 He's the same man as before, And that there in a nutshell IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!! If a person, who lacks a healthy way of dealing with relationship issues...is faced with even more...how exactly do they acquire healthy ones?? He has learned...to run,hide, lie, manipulate, cheat ..and has been REWARDED by the OP for them. To expect anything different..is just setting yourself up for disappointment. And to be clear....setting YOURSELF up for disappointment. 3
Calcmag Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 It doesn't mean you close your eyes if something comes up, it means your relationship is based on trust. But there's no basis for trust in this relationship. It's fine to base a relationship on trust when both of you are single and available for a committed relationship. When you've known each other a good amount of time. When you've both behaved in a consistent and honest way. And displayed integrity. When you've both EARNED trust. But here, they've only been together 5 months. He's already a multiple cheater - I use that word harshly even though I have a history of cheating myself. He's gone back on his promise to leave his primary relationship. No basis for trust. 2
2sunny Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Since he shows evidence he is staying with her - there's not one reason to waste any more time or energy feeding the illusion that he may actually leave. The evidence and proof - was delivered last Friday... He's NOT leaving her! And any form of communicating further is just to feed your false hope (with his lies). He's given his evidence that he's just another cheater who wants both women to suit HIS needs - at the cost of hurting both women. THAT is evidence of a VERY selfish and self centered man. There's no other way to view him except a liar, cheater, selfish and self serving attached guy. Nothing about that should be attractive to a healthy, balanced woman. I hope you don't waste any more effort on him. He wants to stay with her - let him have her - step away from THEIR relationship. 5
Quiet Storm Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Quiet Storm, I try to PM you and a message came up saying that you don't accept Private Messages. Are you aware of that setting or do you just prefer not to get PMs? Thanks. I have an agreement with my husband to not accept PMs. He is OK with me posting on message boards, but hated the flood of PMs I received from men (I've used my real pic as my avatar on occasion). It's just a boundary that we agreed to in our marriage. 1
ladydesigner Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 He's the same man as before, And that there in a nutshell IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!! If a person, who lacks a healthy way of dealing with relationship issues...is faced with even more...how exactly do they acquire healthy ones?? He has learned...to run,hide, lie, manipulate, cheat ..and has been REWARDED by the OP for them. To expect anything different..is just setting yourself up for disappointment. And to be clear....setting YOURSELF up for disappointment. This is genius and spot on. Most WS's lack healthy coping mechanisms which is why they run from the M problems than address them or end the M. If it's not coping mechanisms then it is for some other selfish reason as they aren't happy in M but they don't want to split from their kids, finances, comfort,etc.
2sunny Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 IF you communicate further - you are rewarding his bad behavior. You are HELPING him cheat on her - knowing he's not intending to leave her and knowing he lies to both of you to get what he wants. Don't help him cheat anymore. :-( 1
Speakingofwhich Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 I have an agreement with my husband to not accept PMs. He is OK with me posting on message boards, but hated the flood of PMs I received from men (I've used my real pic as my avatar on occasion). It's just a boundary that we agreed to in our marriage. Thanks for the reply, Quiet Storm. I am a woman. But, understand your agreement with your husband must be honored! Good for you two having healthy boundaries! Was just going to ask if you are a therapist?
georgia girl Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Wrinkled, I am not sure anyone on this forum can help you when I read your replies. You assign this man you have known for only five months all of the wonderful qualities you WANT him to have, not the ones he has demonstrated he has. In the face of the pain he is causing two women, he is not owning his part nor crafting a permanent solution but instead passing out promises and asking for reassurance himself. Don't fall in love so fast. Make him earn it. Or, if it were me, drop him as fast as you can and find a new partner. 5
SidLyon Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) And this is the only way to have a relationship. True. This would be the ideal. It doesn't mean you close your eyes if something comes up, it means your relationship is based on trust. In this case "something" has come up, so I'm sure you'll agree that WF should be very much paying attention to the way her "partner" treats women especially one he's in a long-term relationship with. This is clearly a case where trust needs re-examining, even if previously WF felt she had no reason to mistrust him. There are a lot of posts on this thread trying to fill your head with doubts. At such a vulnerable time in your relationship I would avoid nurturing thoughts like that. If you haven't had a reason to doubt him before, why would you suddenly now? He's the same man as before, just facing a difficult task. A task which may prove to be insurmountable but that is yet to be seen. I disagree strongly with this. There's a reason so many experienced posters are doubtful of this. It's because we've seen it all before, many of us have experienced it and apart from a very few it rarely works out. The best thing for you to do for your relationship at this time is to trust the love, trust the bond, between the two of you. This advice is wrong in my opinion, but WF will no doubt do what she wants to do, and I'm getting the feeling she's in denial and still wants to trust. I know this feeling well as I'm sure do many other posters here. Unfortunately having trust and even love is often not enough in an affair situation. I also believe that a man having an affair is essentially an emotionally abusive man. You have to do an awful lot of lying to someone you supposedly love or once loved in order to conduct a long-term affair. There's no way it's not abusive and manipulative of the BS. My comments also in bold above. Edited September 4, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Redacted personal information/off-topic discussion 3
SidLyon Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 Did you read the extent he went to to claim ED to his BS? It was eye brow raising, that is for sure. This is called gaslighting of his partner. Apparently he even gaslights the urologist. He either lied to his doctor and his partner, or he's lying to WF, or most likely lying to them all. 3
2sunny Posted September 6, 2013 Posted September 6, 2013 Has he tried to communicate with you this week? If so, have you participated?
bentleychic Posted September 6, 2013 Posted September 6, 2013 Continuing to keep you in my thoughts. I know you may not want to post here due to some of the responses, but some of us are definitely thinking of you with your best interests at heart. 1
Author wrinkledforhead Posted September 8, 2013 Author Posted September 8, 2013 I know you guys are interested in an update so I'll say this much: WM is still leaving his other R. It is taking time but he is deconstructing it. We've had some serious conversations regarding both of our actions and reactions in the aftermath of the beginning of the end. The process he is working through right now, before he tells her its over. He is coming to terms with leaving a R with someone he loves but is not in love with. He has been doing some reading, is still committed to his therapy sessions. After reading heavily these last few days, I see the necessity of this. He needs to come to terms to ending that on its own terms, and not ending it solely to be with me. He is recognizing that he should have left some time ago. I believe this is the best way for him to do it to prevent post-A conflict: "look at all I gave up for you," "I sacrificed a lot so this had better be worth it." We've discussed the pitfalls of many A's after the WS leaves, and we are continuing to build our R conscious of what we're up against. But to my question: he is leaving his R without revealing the A for reasons we agree upon and that impact us both. We have agreed to keep our R mostly hidden for some time after. There are many people in my life that know he and I are together, but don't know of the A. There are 3 people in his life that know of our R, and of course, do know he is having an A. I'm curious as how to best go about (I'm future thinking here, preparing) telling people he is seeing somebody (me) and in a new R. By outward appearances, he will be a man who left a R of 15 years and is then (like I said, several months from now) seeing a woman 20 yrs his junior, with two kids. I'm curious as to how the general public (mostly friends & family) will see us, or if there will be any raised eyebrows, comments to contend with. Any insight?
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