road Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 Men whether called alpha or beta does not apply the top of the list of the bottom. It is a pecking order. You take men and rank them. The 2nd man is alpha to the 3rd man. Yet he is beta to the 1st man. The 1st man is alpha to both. The 3rd man is beta to both. Alpha measures their ability to dominate their competition/other men. Whether in school, work place, income, skills, dating, even in immature things as drinking. Being alpha has nothing to do with being good. It is all about being able to win. You win by dominating your opponent. Yes the OM can be a low life, trailer park trash of a man. Yet he wants to get laid. He does not care about ethics. He works his prey because he is up to the fight to steal another mans wife. Being alpha is about power. There is no requirement to use power only for good to be alpha. John Wayne portrayed alphas in his movies. Darth Vader was alpha in Star Wars.
busdriver Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 I think perhaps it's not the actual terms that put people off, exactly. It may be the 'pick-up' culture that uses them. It smacks of 'game' playing. I think most posters are here to get away from games. Not implying that you are in any way representing those ideas, but it might be a factor in how your terms are received. 1
todreaminblue Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 i dont care anymore about alpha beta charlie delta egg(ok forgotten this one)...foxtrot...men suck........all letters of the alphabet men suuuuuck...smilin.....not all of them.....most of them...ok some of them...sigh ok a minorty of them..... hah googled e its echo and i have mixed the military alphabet with greek....... honestly who cares as long as you love the letter of the alphabet of the first name of the man you are with......i dont see aplha or beta in front of peoples name...or say yes i love percival the alpha..........men still suck....even when you love them...alpha or beta.....trudges off now exiting off stage of men suck....especially if they see them selves as a greek alphabet...deb 1
compulsivedancer Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) I think people have two different thoughts on how they define alpha, etc. I tend to define "alpha" as the top dog, the pack leader. That's it. Guy doesn't have to be muscled, macho, threatening, sexually dominant, etc. All he has to do is lead the pack and keep the pack in line. However, a lot of people seem to think about alpha as some sort of erotic, Shades of Grey kinda guy. The dominant (read "sexually dominant") man, who goes about showing everyone he's in charge, whether he actually is or not. I had a thread a while back (Road, you commented in this one, so you know what I'm talking about), where I unfortunately used the term "alpha," which brought in all kinds of red herrings, as everyone jumped to tell me that, no, my H is not an alpha male. Who the f cares if he has manly-man alpha traits? That wasn't even an important part of the post, but it sidetracked EVERYONE. He is the alpha in our group because everyone defers to him. When something happens, he's the one that goes and has a "talk" with someone. If someone doesn't like him, they leave the group (which is not always the case with other friends). If someone new comes in, the new guy sometimes feels the need to jockey for power with H, but H always wins (though he has never physically fought anyone ever). To me, this makes him the alpha, not any other masculine testosterone-laden trait. Even a small wiry man (which H is NOT) with no fighting ability could be an alpha, as long as he is Top Dog and can keep everyone in line. As long as no one is able to come in and displace him, he is the alpha. Being a physically domineering man with a "dominant" personality is NOT enough to make someone an alpha. Many a big dominant man can still be cowed by someone else. If you are not leading the group, you are not the alpha of the group; it's just all for show. (Sidenote: H actually IS built like the typical perception of an alpha, big muscles and all. But he doesn't use them. He's not a particularly aggressive guy unless he absolutely has to be.) That said, I'm not sure why everyone is so concerned about the alpha thing. Most people are in much more fluid categories, and it really doesn't make sense to use this term most of the time, especially if it's going to be misunderstood. There is nothing wrong with being part of a group without being its primary leader. Edited September 2, 2013 by compulsivedancer 1
waterwoman Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 Aha! That explains why I have never been attracted to alpha males. From your description they are clearly total tossers. 2
Antenna_Of_Destiny Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 We’ve all met the type of individual who simply must take charge. Whether it’s a strategic brainstorming session, a pick-up basketball game, or a family outing, they can’t help grabbing the lead dog position and clinging on to it for dear life. Always opinionated, usually impatient and frequently brusque, these gotta-be-in-fronters get so used to other people describing them as natural born leaders that sooner or later–to their own and everyone else’s detriment–they begin to believe it. Truth is, they’re most always nothing of the sort. True leaders don’t presume that it’s their divine right to take charge every time two or more people get together. Quite the opposite. A great leader will assess each situation on it’s merits, and will only take charge when their position, the situation, and/or the needs of the moment demand it. Oh, and if you read that last paragraph with a sneaking belief that in most situations you are the right person to take charge, you’re most likely a gotta-be-in-fronter, not a leader. 3 Signs You?re Meant to Be a Leader | TIME.com
CarrieT Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) To put it into a context from the perspective of a woman, I believe the Alpha and Beta concepts of males comes from a male perspective and most women aren't nearly as concerned or cognizant of the psychoses as the males are. We don't see Alphas and Betas. We see those guys that act like jerks and everyone else. There are leaders and dominants in society, sure. But it is far more nuanced than that when it comes to classifying men for the acquisition of women. Until these so-called "Betas" understand these, they will be relegated to remaining "Betas." Edited September 2, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Comment on moderation redacted 3
Eve Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 It is nonsense. The distinction is whether or not the man is a twat, of which there are far too many. Take care, Eve x 1
jimmytwowheels Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 As a military member, you basically get a crap load of 'alphas' in one area. It's always amusing to see what happens when there's 12 soldiers and 5 women. It literally descends into pre human biology lol. As others have identified, the problem is that many punks these days are identifying themselves as 'alpha' when that merely means that they have no respect for women, are narcissistic (did I spell that wrong?) and think that rudeness equals firmess, equals manly. In my house, I am the alpha. Always. That's that. I will throw down with anyone who breaks the rules when I have people over. This isn't to say I will always win I'm not Jean Claude Van Damme. When it comes to my lovely lady, I'm the same. Being rude is one thing, but some words cross the line, and I'm ok with verbal or physical confrontation to set it right. I've taken charge in situations and even verbally beaten down someone bigger then me. That said, I used to work for a senior NCO who was almost half my size and scared the ever living piss out of me. He was 160 pounds of terror haha. My career sort of influences my take on that word, and I know this was rambly. Sorry! 1
MrCastle Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I don't get why the term is so heated on here. I get that it's overused and depending on who's using it and how, may seem like "game playing" or pua stuff but the reality is there are men who are leaders and men who aren't. Simple as. The men who are natural leaders tend to do better in dating than those who aren't natural leaders. As some above me mentioned, it has absolutely nothing to do with size. It's a dominant personality. You have it or you don't. Call it what you want, give it another name if "alpha" and "beta" offend you but facts are facts. Dominant men usually get the women. It's nature.
Pompeii Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I've simply never believed in the alpha/beta bull**** in the form of the pickup artistry. I'm inclined not to take anyone seriously who says that I need to be an alpha male to get girls. They're almost always trying to sell me something. Marketing 101. Within my business operations, I would be considered an "alpha" considering I conduct general management and I am one of the founders of the company. To a customer, would I be a beta because I am relying on them to deliver me cash flow? With that being said, I do believe dominance plays a heavy role in female attraction. If you regularly interact with a group of girls and you are the dominant male or one of the dominant males, you WILL see action. Guaranteed. Women are wired to respond to dominance. Within my old group of friends, I was pretty much one of the lowest on the totem pole. No surprise, I saw no action. If you're not a dominant male, you're not getting anywhere with women, period. Unless you have god-tier looks and are aesthetic. The world is not divided into jerks and nice guys. Jerks get more girls simply because they are more dominant, self-serving, and more often than not have decent looks. 1
Object_a Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 The problem with this alpha/beta crap is that it claims to be based on science and therefore 'true' but it's neither. It is an analogy from animals (wolves, primate groups, whatever) to humans, which is not a like-for-like comparison. Animal social structures and behaviours are entirely determined by their biology, whereas humans have agency and therefore no single 'true' way to be or live beyond what they decide within a bounded set of circumstances. There is also a very distasteful political assumption behind the idea of alphas and betas which is effectively that "might makes right." Some people are 'alphas' and deserve to have full recognition as persons with agency, dignity and social worth, while all others are 'betas' who do not deserve any of these and should be glad the alphas even tolerate their existence - or so the story goes. Any belief which asserts that everyone but yourself is a sub-human piece of trash is nothing more than egoistic masturbation for selfish nihilists.
GravityMan Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I think some guys on forums like these care wayyy too much about this "alpha" and "beta" male stuff. Out there in the real world, this stuff almost never comes up in discussion. Many guys simply don't care...they don't think of themselves as alpha, beta or whatever. There's just far more interesting, important and useful things to devote brain cells to. It wouldn't surprise me if a sizable percentage of men have never even heard of the terms "alpha/beta male". They are just individuals who have pros and cons. Some are jerks, some are shy, some are charming, some are natural charismatic leaders, many are in-between and many are a fluid mixture of things which can vary depending on their mood, the situation, and so on. And BTW, the vast majority of them are able to attract women (whether it's one, two or many) and don't have much difficulty dating. 1
MomsSpaghetti Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Women like guys who are: good lookingwealthypopular Everything else they claim to like is just a coverup. I think alpha is a meaningless term. What is "socially dominant" even supposed to mean? Among any of my groups of friends, I don't see any power structure where one guy is dominant over the others. Whenever I've known a ladies' man, he's just been an otherwise-normal guy who was good looking. A quiet, physically weak guy does well with women if he's tall and handsome. So I guess this guy is alpha in the sense that he's the winner in the sexual selection. But then saying that women like alpha men is redundant because you're just saying that "women like guys who all the women like". 1
PJKino Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Women like guys who are: good lookingwealthypopular Everything else they claim to like is just a coverup. I think alpha is a meaningless term. What is "socially dominant" even supposed to mean? Among any of my groups of friends, I don't see any power structure where one guy is dominant over the others. Whenever I've known a ladies' man, he's just been an otherwise-normal guy who was good looking. A quiet, physically weak guy does well with women if he's tall and handsome. So I guess this guy is alpha in the sense that he's the winner in the sexual selection. But then saying that women like alpha men is redundant because you're just saying that "women like guys who all the women like". I agree just like "confidence" its an overblown fluff cliche word in the dating world As long as youre good lookign enough youll do fine with women as long as youre not a complete social retard. Most people who use the world alphas are usually men who are cornballs that want to thump their chests and act as if their some macho tough guys above other men. or total social retards tryign to figure out women on sites like the bodybuildign forum 1
pteromom Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Women like guys who are: good lookingwealthypopular Everything else they claim to like is just a coverup. Good looking - Sure. But good looking to me is likely very different than your definition of good looking. It has nothing to do with abs, a strong chin, and a full head of hair, and everything to do with a warm smile that melts me. Wealthy - No, don't care about wealthy. But successful enough to pull his weight in the relationship, sure. I don't want to finance someone. Popular - Not even on my radar. I've always been attracted to the quiet, shy guys who don't realize they are cute. As far as alpha/beta, I don't care if someone is the lead dog. I do, however, care that someone isn't going to walk through life as a doormat and is confident and OK with who he is. If that's your definition of "alpha", then sure, give me an alpha guy. 1
CarrieT Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Women like guys who are: good lookingwealthypopular Everything else they claim to like is just a coverup. Guys like women who: good lookingthin and/or stackedsexually available Everything else they claim to like is just a cover-up. See how this form of "logic" just doesn't fly? 1
carhill Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Reduction of stress, which affects cortisol levels relevant to testosterone production, along with the calming effects of oxytocin, levels of which are generally raised in bonding behaviors, all combine to affect dominant social behaviors, generally increasing the propensity to assert dominance in social situations and interactions. A calm, clear head and belief in one's self and place in the social hierarchy lend more opportunity to exhibit the traits common to 'alpha' personalities. Dominance is gender- and morally blind IMO and covers a range of psychological types and styles. Hence, an alpha male can be 'good' or 'bad', depending on the situation, persons involved, and the perspectives each brings to the milieu. Reflecting back, when my M was healthy and loving, I found myself to be more dominant in social situations, reflective of the brain chemistry mix that a healthy relationship and sexual intimacy brought to the dynamic. When things changed, along with the stress of caregiving, I found myself fading more into the background, becoming more 'beta', again IMO a response to the psychological and chemical changes brought about from an unhealthy relationship and stress. Post divorce and death, calm has returned, along with a marked reduction in stress, and I note more positive responses in social situations to attend. The medium is the same. It's myself who's changed. If people are having issues with the term 'alpha male', perhaps some reflection upon and research into the psychology and science of it could be helpful. The opportunity to learn and grow always exists as long as life exists. Good luck. 1
MomsSpaghetti Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Guys like women who: good lookingthin and/or stackedsexually available Everything else they claim to like is just a cover-up. See how this form of "logic" just doesn't fly? No, because the difference is that we men don't coverup the fact. Few women will admit that they want to upgrade their lifestyle by marrying a rich guy. And we're constantly bombarded with the myth that women don't care much about physical appearance, as long as you smile or whatever (see what the poster above you wrote lol). 2
GorillaTheater Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 No, because the difference is that we men don't coverup the fact. Few women will admit that they want to upgrade their lifestyle by marrying a rich guy. And we're constantly bombarded with the myth that women don't care much about physical appearance, as long as you smile or whatever (see what the poster above you wrote lol). So what's the plan? Bitch about it or alpha up? 1
GorillaTheater Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I'll admit it. I only date rich, good-looking men. Hey it's better than living with a troll in the poorhouse. LOL As a young broke guy who married a young broke woman, I've heard of worse plans. 1
Star Gazer Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 I'll admit it. I only date rich, good-looking men. Hey it's better than living with a troll in the poorhouse. LOL Add tall and big penis to the list, and yup. Better than a short, poor, tiny pee-pee troll. 1
Nikki Sahagin Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 People always liken human relationships to the animal kingdom. But there's a problem with that. * The female spider mates with the male and eats him * The Lion has a harem of females, until he is overtaken by a younger, stronger male and then lives alone * Bonobos live in a sexually promiscuous polygamous society including gay and lesbian groups * Puffins mate for life Humans are animals, but which category do we fall into? Well... * Some couples are monogamous * Some women take advantage of men * Some men take advantage of women * Some people are gay, some are lesbian * Some are polygamous * Some are asexual I think it's pointless talking about alpha and beta. Humans are so individual and broad. Some women out there would love a beta male to submit to her. Some women want the alpha. Some men like a dominant woman, and some like a wallflower. There's someone for everyone. Just gotta look in the right places. 1
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