All men are dogs, right?

[compulsivedancer]

Proof of why it is best to move far away from the OM after dday.

 

While I don't necessarily agree that we should move away, I am beginning to understand it. Yesterday I went to the Y and decided to stay for an extra class. I thoughtlessly forgot to tell H, because I never have in the past (I haven't really done this post-A), and my phone was locked in my purse in my trunk. When I got home, H was pretty sad. He was worried I was out with OM somewhere. I wonder if it will always be that way. If OM lived in another town, perhaps he would be less concerned.

[compulsivedancer]

CD,

 

You have received a lot of good advice on this thread. From both men and women.

 

Underneath your original question, of are all men dogs...is really...Do you think my AP cared about me? Was I just a conquest or lay?

 

You have had several threads with similar types of comments, and you are right after 7 months it seems that you should be further along.Actually, I've made a lot of progress since I started posting here. I started posting less than two months ago, and I was going out of my mind wanting to contact him. I had days where it consumed me, times that it ruined my whole week. I don't have that really any more. I haven't feel the need to contact him in over a month, and I haven't felt like I did Saturday in a long time. Maybe I'm moving slower than other WSs (I don't know if this is true), but I am making progress.

 

Why do YOU suppose that is? H tells me one thing, and my mind agrees it is plausible, but my gut and experiences tell me there is more to the story. Lately H has taken to insisting that I think about OM in a certain way. I'd rather not keep revisiting it, but constantly reanalyzing it with him isn't making me think about him differently, just making him harder to forget.

 

What could the OM say to you that would give you "closure" that could give you the freedom to let it go and move on? He probably couldn't, since it would be very hard to believe anything he said now. It would probably just hurt more and do exactly what others have suggested: restart the clock.

 

I have told you in other reads that I felt you are like a dry drink playing with a glass of bourbon. Maybe not technically in the affair, but as close to it as possible. Almost as if giving it up would be painful.

 

You clearly still hold fond feelings for your AP, you still speak about him in favorable ways. This means to me that you are not TRYING to sever those threads.

 

So, you think it's something else...why do you think you are having trouble moving on?

 

IIWII

 

..........

[compulsivedancer]

And as someone who is suppose to be working on her marriage, why does this matter now?

 

It doesn't. But that doesn't make me want to know the answer any less.

[Coolit]

And as someone who is suppose to be working on her marriage, why does this matter now?

 

Because affairs suck. And when you hate yourself for your actions it is easy to want some things to make you feel better. Not better about your affair but better about yourself as a human being. It is hard to accept that all the "friendly" guestures were really just a tool to get you into bed and you fell for it.

Specially if you have never been "used" before.

 

I get that. And this forum is a safe place to let that out when it comes in waves.

[compulsivedancer]

Because affairs suck. And when you hate yourself for your actions it is easy to want some things to make you feel better. Not better about your affair but better about yourself as a human being. It is hard to accept that all the "friendly" guestures were really just a tool to get you into bed and you fell for it.

Specially if you have never been "used" before.

 

I get that. And this forum is a safe place to let that out when it comes in waves.

 

Thank you. I think you expressed it better than I ever could.

[twosadthings]

Dear Dancer,

 

I've avoided posting on this thread because I'm an old/old school guy who's been retired for eleven years, finally reached Medicare and don't quite get that the "new" man is really the "old" woman. With metrosexual this, manscaping that, with men in a commercial for something called a "NoNo" I may not be the person to respond to "Are all men dogs?" but here goes.

 

About fifteen years or so ago my secretary told me she had broken up with her longtime boyfriend because he had cheated. She asked me in different words much the same question you had posed. I told her that in my opinion, in a primal fashion, all men think that all women are theirs. It doesn't matter if the man is old or young, fat or buff, married or not, men by their nature are always aware of women and think that they deserve that every woman should want them as well. However, I went on that we do not live in a primal society and it is an evolved man that understands this and overcomes it in favor of the woman he loves and/or the regard in which he holds himself.

 

This last part is where I think your husband is focused. Your affair partner let his primal urges direct him in his connection with you. You can say he was a friend for two years but I feel certain that he viewed you (whether he showed it or you were able to sense it) as someone he wanted sex with. His (your lover's) lack of restraint marks him as a sexual opportunist and not worth your defending of him.

 

Take it or leave it, agree or not.

 

Just sayin'

 

Twosadthings

[Thegameoflife]

Another perspective here. Women seek men who they feel sheltered by. I don't make any female friends because if I do, they throw themselves at me. Every single time, married, attached, or single. Some have tried to convince past GF to to let them into the relationship. Acceptance and emotional security is the catalyst which drives sexual desire in most women.

[ladydesigner]

in a primal fashion, all men think that all women are theirs. It doesn't matter if the man is old or young, fat or buff, married or not, men by their nature are always aware of women and think that they deserve that every woman should want them as well. However, I went on that we do not live in a primal society and it is an evolved man that understands this and overcomes it in favor of the woman he loves and/or the regard in which he holds himself.

 

This is very interesting, but I won't categorize ALL men because I'm sure it may not be ALL men. This actually describes a little of the insanity I have witnessed from my WH. My WH would get jealous when MOW had to be with her BS . I read their texts and MOW and him would argue. Now my WH gets jealous if I do not wear my wedding ring because it symbolizes that I am MARRIED, meaning HIS, and if I do not wear it someone will think I'm not his

 

I on the other hand, think of one man being mine, my WH. I look at other men and admire them from afar and I also do the same with women (I am a little on the bisexual side I guess:o), but that is about it. I have no desire to claim all men as mine.

[compulsivedancer]

This is very interesting, but I won't categorize ALL men because I'm sure it may not be ALL men. This actually describes a little of the insanity I have witnessed from my WH. My WH would get jealous when MOW had to be with her BS . I read their texts and MOW and him would argue. Now my WH gets jealous if I do not wear my wedding ring because it symbolizes that I am MARRIED, meaning HIS, and if I do not wear it someone will think I'm not his

 

I on the other hand, think of one man being mine, my WH. I look at other men and admire them from afar and I also do the same with women (I am a little on the bisexual side I guess:o), but that is about it. I have no desire to claim all men as mine.

 

I thought of both men as mine and had to keep reminding myself that OM was taken. Btw, OM was very jealous whenever I mentioned any guy other than H. H has never seemed jealous, but admitted after the A that he has always had jealous thoughts but suppressed them because he was trying to be more evolved. Go figure.

[BetrayedH]

What difference would it make? Granted, with your husband the fact that you want to know, and the fact that he'd like the answer as well to the question of "did he just want me for sex?" makes it all a moot point that I'm trying to make.

 

But I would guess that most men that had a wife that had an affair would be furious if his wife was still curious if the OM cared for her or not. But with your situation knowing the answer to that question fits in with your husband's goal to shift a greater burden of the blame to the OM.

 

Besides making the OM look like a predator (and thus his wife, a victim), I'm sure he also doesn't want her to romanticize the affair for fear that she'll return to it. If she sees the OM as a user, she's less apt to repeat subjecting herself to that. He fears that she's still too naive.

 

I just don't think that he's necessarily correct, even though he's highly invested in wanting her to believe it. Men may be dogs but we are more than just dogs. We are also emotional creatures.

 

I don't think CD has to conform with the thought process her H wants. I think the key is to convey that even if it meant more than sex to him, she would never return to that scenario because the OM and the affair was still toxic and because she has learned what a foolish undertaking it was (as well as how much she loves her husband). BSs may be able to claim a lot of moral high ground but it doesn't mean they're always right. The truth is likely somewhere in between sex and a love affair, regardless of how inconvenient it might be.

[compulsivedancer]

I'm trying really hard, too, to be completely honest with my feelings, so that they don't pop up later and surprise me. That is part of where I went wrong going into the affair. If I don't work all of this through now, what happens next year when I run into him at Walmart? I'd rather try to answer the questions as satisfactorily as possible rather than give into the temptation to have him answer them for me.

[BetrayedH]

A great poster here once told me, closure comes from within. I remind myself of that one pretty routinely. Just as we can't count on others to give us happiness, we can't count on them to give us closure either. Trust me, I'd like to put my exwife on the rack and ask her about a bazillion questions. I've had to learn to let that go. What's tough is that I still have to interact with her routinely. I don't have the benefit of NC. I have to live with some weird combination of the 180 and LC to get by. But I'm no longer looking in her direction for answers about anything anymore. Frankly, I don't trust her judgment or her honesty anyway. I'm counting on my own wits to get me thru at this point.

 

CD, you need to get to a point where the OM is truly irrelevant. Where the A couldn't restart regardless of anything that he could say or do because you know ON YOUR OWN that you will not revisit that mess. Take his power away. Reclaim your own. And reassure your husband that you've got this.

[2.50 a gallon]

manti / cd

 

So many questions, all of this happened 30 plus years ago, and I have just awoke, so, answers might not be all that accurate

 

For the most part, it was just sex.

 

The next door neighbors wife, her idea for revenge sex. It was hot, second encounter didn't come close. A month after I moved out she moved out, I brought my truck, to move her things to her mom's house several hours away. We remained friends, and attended her second wedding a couple of years later.

 

My co-workers, other than the poker players wife, it was all about sex. They wanted to try oral sex, and I provided. They did not wasn't to break up their families. I don't think the H ever knew. I got a new job and quickly faded out of their lives.

 

The EX's co-workers wives. These I pursued. They ended up in D court. Generally I get sexually excited about a woman's looks, in this case it was the idea of revenge. Nothing there after the revenge. H's were pissed, but had no way of finding me, as I had changed jobs and moved. I heard rumours that the EX had had encounters with at least 2 of her co-workers, Only one confirmed when the wife caught them. Something like half a dozen divorces, and oddly enough Ex and I not among them as I walked away and she filed for D, a few years alter

[2.50 a gallon]

All men are Dogs

 

At about age 25 I met a gal who was a super star at sex. She was a little screwed up in the head about love and sex, so I moved on in search of a possible mother of my children with similar skills.

 

In those days the only women who were my friends were possibly sex partners. In order to get sexually excited enough to perform, a girl had to be at least 5' 4", long hair, pretty face and not to skinny and not to fat.

 

All other women, were just that women. We had nothing in common, such as sports, fishing, chasing sexy women. At that time MW were totally taboo.

 

After d-day, I found that I could not perform with normal single women, but if they were married I could out do myself.

 

With time, I was once again able to perform naturally with a single women. However MW were no longer taboo, and in fact that added a lot to the excitement.

 

As for the H's they were associate OM's and I was not worried about them trying to hurt me. In fact I looked forward to it.

[compulsivedancer]

A great poster here once told me, closure comes from within. I remind myself of that one pretty routinely. Just as we can't count on others to give us happiness, we can't count on them to give us closure either. Good advice. Most days I feel like I'm almost there. Some days, less so.

 

CD, you need to get to a point where the OM is truly irrelevant. Where the A couldn't restart regardless of anything that he could say or do because you know ON YOUR OWN that you will not revisit that mess. Take his power away. Reclaim your own. And reassure your husband that you've got this.

 

Betrayed, the A is over for good. No restarting. I am not at all concerned about that. When I talk about what could've happened if NC was not in place, I am thinking about very early on, say first three months. I had a very difficult time wrapping my head around absolute NC for a long time, so it is necessary to remind myself, now that I have some distance, why it was so important.

 

However, H has been not just clear, but over the top in his expectations if I ever run into OM. For him this is tantamount to cheating again and he says he will divorce me if I don't. He expects me to literally turn and walk away without even meeting his eye. This possibility is still heartbreaking for me because I'm still struggling with closure and want to talk to him about it. So figuring out my thoughts is about being prepared for that chance meeting down the line, so that I can be strong enough to turn away completely.

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed, the A is over for good. No restarting. I am not at all concerned about that. When I talk about what could've happened if NC was not in place, I am thinking about very early on, say first three months. I had a very difficult time wrapping my head around absolute NC for a long time, so it is necessary to remind myself, now that I have some distance, why it was so important.

 

However, H has been not just clear, but over the top in his expectations if I ever run into OM. For him this is tantamount to cheating again and he says he will divorce me if I don't. He expects me to literally turn and walk away without even meeting his eye. This possibility is still heartbreaking for me because I'm still struggling with closure and want to talk to him about it. So figuring out my thoughts is about being prepared for that chance meeting down the line, so that I can be strong enough to turn away completely.

 

Hey, I hear you. Frankly, I'm perfectly convinced that this affair won't restart. I'm just not your husband. What I'm stressing is how important reassurance is for him. Once he is as convinced as you and I are, then these conversations about the OM will be totally irrelevant (because the it's ultimately all about your internal fortitude). My point is simply to keep reassuring your H.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

H has been not just clear, but over the top in his expectations if I ever run into OM. For him this is tantamount to cheating again and he says he will divorce me if I don't.

 

He expects me to literally turn and walk away without even meeting his eye.

 

This possibility is still heartbreaking for me because I'm still struggling with closure and want to talk to him about it. So figuring out my thoughts is about being prepared for that chance meeting down the line, so that I can be strong enough to turn away completely.

 

What do you need to hear from MM to get closure? What would make this better for you? That he really loved and cared about you? That he misses you or wishes it were different? That he is sorry? That he used you?

 

Another poster indicted his closure was needed because he needed his AP to say the relationship was real and that she missed him and wished it could have been different and that they would always care about each other.

 

What is the right answer for you and why do you still need it?

 

If you were in your husbands shoes, what type of interaction would provide you a feeling of safety and show he was committed to your marriage?

 

I think his line in the sand is that you be willing to forgo "closure" and never speak to MM again. Not that you run into each other, have a pleasant chat and your husband should feel ok that the affair won't start again.

 

If you can't do that, and you need to hear whatever you need to hear, then perhaps you need to tell your husband that and figure it out together somehow.

 

Edited to add..Because if I were your spouse, I would not want you to be heart broken over a line in the sand I required to help me heal. I would encourage you to go have that meeting with AP for closure, but I would also check out of the marriage.

Edited September 5, 2013 by It-is-what-it-is.

[twosadthings]

Why do you deserve closure for something that should have never been opened in the first place. It's just more selfishness on your part. Think about your husband's needs in this matter as closure for what you did. If you can't, then get your closure from ending your marriage.

 

Sorry for the hurtful tone but it just seems that you don't get it.

 

Twosadthings

[Betterthanthis13]

Betrayed, the A is over for good. No restarting. I am not at all concerned about that. When I talk about what could've happened if NC was not in place, I am thinking about very early on, say first three months. I had a very difficult time wrapping my head around absolute NC for a long time, so it is necessary to remind myself, now that I have some distance, why it was so important.

 

However, H has been not just clear, but over the top in his expectations if I ever run into OM. For him this is tantamount to cheating again and he says he will divorce me if I don't. He expects me to literally turn and walk away without even meeting his eye. This possibility is still heartbreaking for me because I'm still struggling with closure and want to talk to him about it. So figuring out my thoughts is about being prepared for that chance meeting down the line, so that I can be strong enough to turn away completely.

 

In what type of light are you viewing your H's behavior? I often read what you post and think no no no when I hear what your H is saying to you. Is "over the top expectations" accurate? I'm not sure if I am not liking his behavior because it is detrimental to your M, and your reconciliation, or if you are portraying him in a manner that is slightly derogatory and biased? I'm genuinely asking. I'm getting mixed signals from your posts lately. I feel cloudy on what you actually want from your M.

[compulsivedancer]

Sorry, but that is not over the top in his expectations whatsoever. You shouldn't even acknowledge his existense and not even a hi or bye.

 

Not over the top at all. In fact, I'd say it would be the bare minimum to expect.

 

And this is one of the reasons why your husband's expectations are not out of line. Even if you aren't pining for OM and your heart is breaking, your H's expectation still would not be out of line.

 

Vellocet, no that is not over the top as I described it. What is over the top was when H told me this weekend that if OM was at the event and I so much as met his eyes, he would divorce me. When I responded, he almost immediately apologized, but it scared me. Essentially, any time I'm in the same room with OM, even if we know he's going to be there, I risk divorce. I know he was just overreacting and would take circumstances into consideration, but it IS a concern.

 

BTT, obviously H is still running scared. I didn't realize that he was still concerned about a restart of the affair. H is mostly doing fine, but he tends to overheat and overreact in tense moments.

[compulsivedancer]

Let me rephrase. After the anger fizzles off a bit, HE considers overreacting. Not that he's wrong to react in that way, but that he lets the response become overwhelming sometimes. He would rather have more constructive interactions. (Obviously I would prefer that too.)

[compulsivedancer]

But this is what you said:

 

 

 

It is not over the top that he expects you to turn around and avoid the OM in public.

 

Not only because you shouldn't interact with OM AT ALL, but you admit right above that ignoring OM would be heartbreaking for you. All the more reason its not over the top that your husband expects you to completely ignore him.

 

What is over the top is that it seems you expect that it shouldn't be unreasonable to be able to see him and interact in some way.

 

I'm not interested in interacting with him. I just don't want to be faced with divorce if I meet his eye.

 

Look, I see this conversation between you and me going on indefinitely. I appreciate the time and the advice. I will think about what you have said. Lets go ahead and call it a day.

[Dolphono]

In a sense, but in a sense not.

 

I think the vast majority of men have a very strong physical desire that is pretty difficult to control, especially younger men.

 

I've heard about a case where women were injected with the same levels of testosterone as an experiment and they experienced so much arousal that the never wanted to repeat the experience.

 

At the same time, I'll never forget a particular thread on another infidelity site where a woman asked faithful men what their secret was.

 

Reply after reply said the same exact thing:

"I don't trust myself, I avoid dangerous situations." I feel the exact same way. If I were alone with an attractive woman, and she came onto me...I might be in huge trouble! The thing is, I avoid situations like that. I also watch what I say and to not take a friendship beyond where it should go emotionally. (Actually, if an extremely attractive women came onto me at this point, I'd probably go for it lol...I'm *this* close to having D finalized)

 

Dr. Harley says the people who are most likely to commit adultery are the ones who don't recognize the capability in themselves and therefore take no measures to prevent it.

 

You hit men's dilemma out the park. If women had the issue that men have, your gender would be considered nymphos instead of "dogs".

Men sex drive is exactly like a Vampires thirst for blood.

[road]

Let me rephrase. After the anger fizzles off a bit, HE considers overreacting. Not that he's wrong to react in that way, but that he lets the response become overwhelming sometimes. He would rather have more constructive interactions. (Obviously I would prefer that too.)

 

 

Yet you and your BH ignore that NC must be 100%.

 

So if a job has to left. Then the WS must leave that job.

 

OM lives to close, or town to small to avoid then the WS must move their BS and family far away. Actually a move far away is always good after and affair because the places where the affair happened have been removed so they can no longer cause triggers.

 

Constructive reactions?

 

Duh?

 

I will repeat duh again so your attention is focused for the next part.

 

They are called Triggers, not Constructive reactions for a real good reason.

 

It takes two to five years to get past most triggers.

 

Again take notice so your attention is focused for this next part.

 

People can trigger from an affair 10 years, 20 years, 30 years post dday. The triggers will be few and far apart but they will still happen.

 

The WS affair can have a marriage recovered and be better then before the affair. Though the WS can never have 100% trust from their BS ever again. The BS will never be trigger free ever again. The triggers will become few and far in between and over as fast as they were recalled. They will be experienced.

 

Break a marriage is as breaking a cup. Cups can be glued back together. The cup will not leak. The cracks will still be there and still be seen.

[compulsivedancer]

2.50, I realized I hadn't thanked you yet for your posts. It is interesting to see how these things develop. I'm glad you are in a different (and it sounds like) much healthier stage in life.