waterwoman Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Spent a week in Cornwall. Near a town called Fowey. A little harbour town, unbeleivably beautiful and full of character. We rented the converted coach house of a stately home with fantastic sub-tropical gardens. A week of swimming in the sea (yep, we're a hardy bunch!!), skimming stones, eating lots of seafood, lots of leisurely sex (the kids are old enough to entertain themselves when mum and dad are having 'a sleep') and long walks along the coast path (well that was just me and the dog). Weather was a perfect as it can be in the UK in August - ie it didn't actually rain much and it was sunny almost all of the time. Not more than one thought of affair the whole week. No sadness or regret. It was easy and relaxed. H isn't the most romantic of men but as we were driving back we were listening to the Style Council - when 'You're the best thing that ever happened to me' came on H just reached over and squeezed my hand. Just right. I am so very happy right now. One thing did occur to me though. As I watched my beloved, but very ordinary 51 year old husband (bit of a pot belly, lines on his face, irritating football obsession) doing ordinary things with his kids I thought of all the things I read on the OW board - the romantic dreams, the talk of soul-mates, the hopes and fears, and I wonder if this ordinary man was really her dream, her fantasy? He's neither of things to me, he's my solid reality and I love him warts and all. Weird to look at him through other eyes. 14
HopingAgain Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 That is so wonderful! Perspective can be a great thing! 1
ComingInHot Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 WaterWoman, you SO deserved this Wonderful time w/your H and family!!!! Welcome Home* When I look at my H, I sometimes see a sexy, amazing, viral man, other times I see a brilliantly, intelligent man. Then there are days I see a tirelessly, hard working, man. And yes, there are times when I see the grey filling in, and lines developing on his face. Once in a while I still catch his ego and pride and temper rearing up. But he truly is my best friend, best lover, best partner, best Mine. I can see why "others" would want what he offers. You know what he told me just now as he was reading my response?? "CIH, the only reason I have So much to offer, is because You are With me and I'm a better man because of that" :love: 3
Steen719 Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Spent a week in Cornwall. Near a town called Fowey. A little harbour town, unbeleivably beautiful and full of character. We rented the converted coach house of a stately home with fantastic sub-tropical gardens. A week of swimming in the sea (yep, we're a hardy bunch!!), skimming stones, eating lots of seafood, lots of leisurely sex (the kids are old enough to entertain themselves when mum and dad are having 'a sleep') and long walks along the coast path (well that was just me and the dog). Weather was a perfect as it can be in the UK in August - ie it didn't actually rain much and it was sunny almost all of the time. Not more than one thought of affair the whole week. No sadness or regret. It was easy and relaxed. H isn't the most romantic of men but as we were driving back we were listening to the Style Council - when 'You're the best thing that ever happened to me' came on H just reached over and squeezed my hand. Just right. I am so very happy right now. One thing did occur to me though. As I watched my beloved, but very ordinary 51 year old husband (bit of a pot belly, lines on his face, irritating football obsession) doing ordinary things with his kids I thought of all the things I read on the OW board - the romantic dreams, the talk of soul-mates, the hopes and fears, and I wonder if this ordinary man was really her dream, her fantasy? He's neither of things to me, he's my solid reality and I love him warts and all. Weird to look at him through other eyes. Sincerely, so wonderful for you!
Author waterwoman Posted August 31, 2013 Author Posted August 31, 2013 Thanks for the good wishes. I know there is still some way to go but it feels like a corner has been turned x 3
Try Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) As I watched my beloved, but very ordinary 51 year old husband (bit of a pot belly, lines on his face, irritating football obsession) doing ordinary things with his kids I thought of all the things I read on the OW board - the romantic dreams, the talk of soul-mates, the hopes and fears, and I wonder if this ordinary man was really her dream, her fantasy? Yes he was all that to her, which was the main attraction of the affair. She not only saw him that way, but she let him know it. I am not saying that your husband was right to cheat, as cheating is never right, but if you ever wondered what was it that he saw in the other woman that got him to cheat, it was what she saw in him, and how that made him feel. She made him feel desired. She made him feel like a man. He's neither of things to me, he's my solid reality and I love him warts and all. Weird to look at him through other eyes. Please do not let him know that this is how you feel about him. If you ever tell him that he is not your "romantic dream" or your fantasy, but is nothing more to you that an ordinary man who is your "solid reality", he will hear that you view him as a "less than romantically desirable meal ticket". Again, I do not beleive that cheating is ever justified, but you do not have to go out of your way to make it so easy for the next potential other woman. Edited September 1, 2013 by Try 1
Author waterwoman Posted September 1, 2013 Author Posted September 1, 2013 Maybe. But h doesn't deal in romance. It took me years to accept that when he says ILY he really means it so he doesn't feel the need to say or make wildly romantic gestures. It took me years to accept this, and cost me much in my self-esteem, and it did damage our relationship and made me pull back. I wanted to be the heroine in my own fairytale. He wouldn't play the role I wanted him too. The A made me understand one thing very clearly, our marriage is not a fairy tale, it's reality. If I want a fairytale I need to find one elsewhere. If I want a loving, strong, dePendable marriage with a man who loves the bones of me but will never write my name in the wind or fall on his knees in public with a rose between his teeth, I've got it. I am going to be with him till the day he dies, I have been with him since I was 17 (give or take a few years when I was at university). What can be more 'romantic' than that? I have given him 3 babies. I have earned the lions share of the money. I dealt with his breakdown when his dad died. He has had all of me all my life. Not romantic eh? He was the one that has forced me to be pragmatic and the relationship we have is on his terms now. If hecstrats again he is a fool, and an inconsistent one at that. There will be no second chances. He has as much if not more to lose than me so it's up to him. 2
Author waterwoman Posted September 1, 2013 Author Posted September 1, 2013 I'm pretty sure that isn't what she was saying at all, and your post was insensitive. She was pointing out that she feels their relationship is good because she loves him, the good and the bad, not just the good. I'm glad you had a good holiday. Thanks get-it-right. That is what I meant x
Try Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 I wanted to be the heroine in my own fairytale. He wouldn't play the role I wanted him too. The A made me understand one thing very clearly, our marriage is not a fairy tale, it's reality. If I want a fairytale I need to find one elsewhere. If I want a loving, strong, dePendable marriage with a man who loves the bones of me but will never write my name in the wind or fall on his knees in public with a rose between his teeth, I've got it. I was answering your question "I wonder if this ordinary man was really her dream, her fantasy?" and how that made your husband feel, and addressed an unmet want that he had. Your response, where you only talk about your unmet needs, shows that the question was rhetorical. Sorry, I thought that you really cared to hear the answer. I am going to be with him till the day he dies, I have been with him since I was 17 (give or take a few years when I was at university). What can be more 'romantic' than that? I have given him 3 babies. I have earned the lions share of the money. I dealt with his breakdown when his dad died. He has had all of me all my life. Not romantic eh? I am going to stick my neck out again and answer your question truthfully. No it is not romantic enough. In fact it is not romantic at all. I am not saying that these things are not good things, as they are, but romantic, no way.
Author waterwoman Posted September 1, 2013 Author Posted September 1, 2013 I was answering your question "I wonder if this ordinary man was really her dream, her fantasy?" and how that made your husband feel, and addressed an unmet want that he had. Your response, where you only talk about your unmet needs, shows that the question was rhetorical. Sorry, I thought that you really cared to hear the answer. I am going to stick my neck out again and answer your question truthfully. No it is not romantic enough. In fact it is not romantic at all. I am not saying that these things are not good things, as they are, but romantic, no way. A lifetime willingly given isn't romantic? Well then I guess I can live without romance. And I think h can too. If he can't we are really stuffed and I'll be better off without him.
Author waterwoman Posted September 1, 2013 Author Posted September 1, 2013 I guess if I have an affair it will also be understandable? Interesting...
Try Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 A lifetime willingly given isn't romantic? Well then I guess I can live without romance. And I think h can too. If he can't we are really stuffed and I'll be better off without him. Wow, what a loved crazed romantic.
Try Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 I guess if I have an affair it will also be understandable? Interesting... I guess you missed my earlier post to your thread where I said "cheating is never right" and that "I do not beleive that cheating is ever justified". I am very hard on cheaters in my posts, but when you ask a question from the other woman's point of view, I am going to give you an honest answer, even if that turns out to be not what you wanted to hear. To quote you in your orginal post to this thread "Weird to look at him through other eyes". Let me know when you are really interested in doing that.
HopingAgain Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 Wow, what a loved crazed romantic. I think what Waterwoman has described is very romantic. Overcoming so many adversities because through it all you can't bear the thought of not being together and a part of eachothers life.
busdriver Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 There's no misunderstanding what Waterwoman means, it's in her original post. She loves her H 'warts and all' and doesn't need to idealize him to love him. I think that's what she means, anyway...please correct me if I'm wrong! I think the misunderstanding comes from the word 'romantic' -- there are a few ways to define it. There's the dictionary defintiion, which is where Try is seeing the inconsistency: romance means mystery and excitement. And it's true, the list of life events Waterwoman shared involves little of that. But she told us already that's not what she wants. There's a way of understanding romance that has nothing to do with the dictionary. Romance can be subjective -- it can mean simply the way you want to be loved. The way you dream about being loved. That may or may not include 'mystery' , and it doesn't have to. What's important is that Waterwoman is experiencing the kind of love she wants, and is giving it back. We don't get to say that's not romantic! 4
compulsivedancer Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 I guess you missed my earlier post to your thread where I said "cheating is never right" and that "I do not beleive that cheating is ever justified". I am very hard on cheaters in my posts, but when you ask a question from the other woman's point of view, I am going to give you an honest answer, even if that turns out to be not what you wanted to hear. To quote you in your orginal post to this thread "Weird to look at him through other eyes". Let me know when you are really interested in doing that. Try, this thread is about waterwoman being excited to have such a great experience during R. It's about a ray of hope in a dark time. It's about seeing a future together where the affair is not all-consuming. There is no reason to rain on her parade. We all got the point when you said that that was why he appreciated the other woman, and that was probably correct. But then you basically told waterwoman that it's her fault if he cheats again. Not true, and not fair. Waterwoman, it is wonderful that you had a great holiday. I hope that things continue to look up. It was an interesting insight to look at him and think about him from the OW's perspective, but you sound like you have a perfectly healthy view of your husband. I wish you well. Side note: it seems like people are especially angry this weekend on the "Infidelity" forum. Do you think it's the holiday weekend?
Try Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) We all got the point when you said that that was why he appreciated the other woman, and that was probably correct. But then you basically told waterwoman that it's her fault if he cheats again. Not true, and not fair. I never said that if he cheats again it would be her fault, as I strongly beleive that cheating is always wrong. If you want to better understand my perspective please read "His Needs Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage" by Harley. The main point of the book is to get each spouse to look at things from the other spouse's point of view instead of their own, and to meet the other spouse's needs by realizing that men and women often value things differently. For example, one of the top needs of most men is the need for "Admiration", something that does not make the top list for most women (so they do not know to even try to meet this need). I am happy that she and her husband had a great holiday together. I think that if they both work to meet the other spouse's needs, that they will have a better chance at having more such holidays. Most marriages end for reasons other than infidelity. They end when one or both spouses needs are not met and they divorce in the hopes of later finding someone that will meet those needs. Cheaters take the easy way out and do not wait for the divorce to start looking. Edited September 2, 2013 by Try
Author waterwoman Posted September 2, 2013 Author Posted September 2, 2013 try - I think being a 'love-crazed romantic' is a really bad basis for a long-term relationship. But maybe that is just me. I have had a glimpse of the way OW saw H. I have seen it from her perspective. I don't need a lecture on how to love my H - a man I have been loving for many many years very successfully. I guess what I saw was the way I saw him when we were first together - a very shallow, rootless and idealized perspective. She thought he was her KISA. He wanted to be. Until he realised that being her KISA meant being divorced from me. I do admire H in many ways and I tell him that regularly. I admire him for the things he does well - sadly there are some things he doesn't do well, I have had 30 years to find out what those are [wink]. (And the same is true of me of course) She didn't know that. She only see what she wants to see. I think that loving someone despite their faults is so much more meaningful than loving someone when you don't see or refuse to see them. The point I was making when you accused me of only stating my needs was that now we have a stable, contented, mutually satisfying marriage with plenty of sex and the miniumn of fireworks. And THAT is what H wanted all along. He didn't want a passionate, fiery marriage with huge arguments followed by equally passionate making-up. I am the 'romantic' one of the two of us - I am also emotionally volatile in a way that H isn't (I am a chronic depressive which doesn't lend itself to emotional stability) and finds difficult to deal with. So we are now rolling along quite nicely, H is getting his needs met, I am learning to modify my needs and my volatility and so far I have been much happier. So all good. But as I said, as H is the most benefitted he would be a fool to stray again. If he does, so be it. I will let him go with sadness but also with the knowledge I have done my best. BTW when asked he said I had done nothing wrong. He didn't blame me one bit for his affair. He gets angry with me when I try to pinpoint where I went wrong because I didn't. He and the MC spent time trying to convince me that there was no blame on me. He simply allowed himself to get too close to someone who, in his words, 'was worthy of love'. It hurts to hear that - I'd rather it was me at fault because then I could stop it happening. But he has built his boundaries higher and firmer and he knows that I won't stay the second time. Thanks everyone. I have to admit I am struggling to feel the joy after this thread but that might be because I am back at work after 10 days on leave
Try Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) I do admire H in many ways and I tell him that regularly. I am glad to hear this. Posters can only comment from what they read. At the end of the day only you know the full story. So we are now rolling along quite nicely, H is getting his needs met, I am learning to modify my needs and my volatility and so far I have been much happier. So all good. Also, glad to hear this. BTW when asked he said I had done nothing wrong. He didn't blame me one bit for his affair. He gets angry with me when I try to pinpoint where I went wrong because I didn't. He and the MC spent time trying to convince me that there was no blame on me. He simply allowed himself to get too close to someone who, in his words, 'was worthy of love'. It hurts to hear that - I'd rather it was me at fault because then I could stop it happening. But he has built his boundaries higher and firmer By him showing real remorse and not blame shifting, the two of you have a real shot. I have to admit I am struggling to feel the joy after this thread but that might be because I am back at work after 10 days on leave. I am sorry if I may have been a downer. I was trying to help and would still recommend that you read “His Needs Her Needs”, but recognize now that perhaps this was not the best time to give the advise that I was giving. Good luck and be well. Edited September 2, 2013 by Try
Author waterwoman Posted September 2, 2013 Author Posted September 2, 2013 I am glad to hear this. Posters can only comment from what they read. At the end of the day only you know the full story. Also, glad to hear this. By him showing real remorse and not blame shifting, the two of you have a real shot. I am sorry for my role in being a downer. I was trying to help and would still recommend that you read “His Needs Her Needs”, but recognize now that perhaps this was not the best time to give the advise that I was giving. Good luck and be well. No probs try. Thanks for your advice as I am sure it came from a good place. I think that book sounds interesting. I know we want different things from each other so anything that offers guidance is worth a look.
silicone Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 Fowey is a nice area, but I'm more of a beach person.
Author waterwoman Posted September 2, 2013 Author Posted September 2, 2013 Fowey is a nice area, but I'm more of a beach person. We spent a lot if time on polridmouth beach. And lantic cove.
jnel921 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Good for you. I am happy you guys had a great time. You have a foundation, you have a family and most of all you have each other. OP are on the outside looking in and aligning their lives foolishly. Wishing they could have moments like this. We are trying to grow older with our spouses. We love and accept each other unconditionally. No marriage is perfect. With understanding, communication and a genuine love and desire to be together then it can be. Stay positive and bask in your glory.
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