Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) I think he's wanting to keep his options open. I doubt that the new girl knows much about you. Usually the relationships are insular because if one girl discovers the other then the entire fabrication is exposed which is most powerless position he can be in. He's probably terrified of that happening which explains the hesitance to divulge any information to you and the venomous reaction to your questions. You seem like a very intelligent individual. Your grammar skills and vocabulary are exceptional and you seem very insightful and ready to accept other points of view (the true mark of intellect). I'm positive that he likes this about you but it intimidates him too and yes, he will say things designed to poke at your most vulnerable points. I don't believe he thinks you're stupid, he wouldn't spend so much time lying to you if that were the case. Stupid people are easy to fool and manipulate. You're more of an equal than most to him but that is nowhere near how he views himself. The problem is given that he's pretty much like I am and he knows you incredibly well he can probably read you the same way I read him. I still strongly recommend cutting contact with him, I think he's far too narcissistic to be selfless or to love you but he will attempt to keep you around via manipulation if you let him. I know you said that you suffer from seperation anxiety but I would be more anxious about his influence than lack of. Even taking away all the things I've said, he's doing you wrong by leading you on like this while seeing another girl. You deserve better than that. If I'm right (which I believe I am, but then again I'm still rather narcissistic too ) then you deserve much, much better than that. It's true, and that makes a lot of sense. I thought I'd made it clear to him when I first asked for space that I wasn't okay with him seeing someone else while he acted like everything was hunkydory with me, or that we could just go back to "normal" without the romance part. So I guess that's why I was especially frustrated that after using a crowbar on that mouth of his, all he had to say was that he was still seeing her, even though if I were her, and I knew that he was talking to his ex as much as he has been, I'd not be too okay with it either. Maybe after I initiated NC in the first place, the letter and all that stuff came along in an effort to play towards my ideals and what I see in him to draw me back, knowing I'd respond. You could copy that from a Beatles song, so it's not like smithing it would be too hard. And that letter nailed me hook, line and sinker. Despite being kind of vague in parts, it was crafted very intentionally, so who's to say that he didn't think about every word in that sense? He even told me during our argument that nothing he said or didn't say was a misplaced thought. Though he was also upset when I implicated to him that I thought the letter might be a lie. But if he thinks I'm so smart, does he really think I'd fall for lies? Or why he feels so bad about the whole situation? If he's trying to keep his options open, he sure is taking his sweet time on decision making.... He told me he thought that I just wasn't ready for a relationship or something to that effect. But at least I can be rest-assured it was him leading me on and not me just being stupid and not understanding the writing on the wall or something. Edited August 30, 2013 by LinkWorshiper more thoughts
Minneloa Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Minneloa, You're right. But even in all this stuff, he reaches out to me with his woes. Maybe he knows I want to be there for him. I have tried to make boundaries with him, but he always manages to get around them somehow... whether it's getting upset or doing something that plays on my affections. I used to be so sure he was just depressed, but now I'm afraid he's playing me. But I'm also afraid to do anything too knee-jerk since my knee-jerk pressuring about this other girl he's seeing incited an argument that's possibly put a damper on our interactions and it freaks me out that I'm just tearing things down and screwing myself over. I understand that you are in shock and hurting a lot. I do think NC would allow you to settle your emotions and gain new perspective on the situation, but I also respect that you might need some time to absorb what happened yesterday. Also, I want to emphasize that I do not think you ruined anything. I know that you were very hopeful about your situation and the possibility of reconciliation at some point, and I think now you are facing a very hard truth that you and your ex are not on the same page. It is natural to want to put the blame on yourself for misunderstanding or overreacting, but resist this impulse. It takes two to create an ambiguous situation, and your ex certainly helped create the confusion. What I'm encouraging you to do, when you are ready, is to take control of your half and decline to participate further in the emotional chaos. M.
Zahara Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Minneloa, You're right. But even in all this stuff, he reaches out to me with his woes. Maybe he knows I want to be there for him. I have tried to make boundaries with him, but he always manages to get around them somehow... whether it's getting upset or doing something that plays on my affections. I used to be so sure he was just depressed, but now I'm afraid he's playing me. But I'm also afraid to do anything too knee-jerk since my knee-jerk pressuring about this other girl he's seeing incited an argument that's possibly put a damper on our interactions and it freaks me out that I'm just tearing things down and screwing myself over. Of course he reaches out to you with his woes. It's because you're available and you're a comfort to him. Yes, an emotional crutch. And it's not your job to be there for him while he spirals. When it ended, he forfeited that benefit to have you in his life to help keep him afloat. The thing is, you prioritize his pains over yours. Aren't you hurting at the expense of alleaviating his? If you're taking care of him, who's taking care of you. He's not doing it. Yes? Edited August 30, 2013 by Zahara
FennecFox Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 As I said in my previous post, while he may think of you of intelligent I suspect that he is incredibly self-absorbed to the point where he believes himself superior to everyone. That's why he struggles to maintain any sort of emotional connection. So he would absolutely think that you would fall for the lies, he believes them too carefully crafted to be deconstructed by anyone on the outside. In response to what you've said to other posters, you aren't tearing this apart and you shouldn't feel like the blame is on you. Do those feelings of guilt derive from your conversations with him?
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 I understand that you are in shock and hurting a lot. I do think NC would allow you to settle your emotions and gain new perspective on the situation, but I also respect that you might need some time to absorb what happened yesterday. Also, I want to emphasize that I do not think you ruined anything. I know that you were very hopeful about your situation and the possibility of reconciliation at some point, and I think now you are facing a very hard truth that you and your ex are not on the same page. It is natural to want to put the blame on yourself for misunderstanding or overreacting, but resist this impulse. It takes two to create an ambiguous situation, and your ex certainly helped create the confusion. What I'm encouraging you to do, when you are ready, is to take control of your half and decline to participate further in the emotional chaos. M. I don't know that he will reach out to me like he has been even though we settled on trying to start over from square one. I don't plan to reach out to him even though it makes me very anxious. But I'm also still upset because I really thought things were going in a good way. I don't even know what to think. My boss has urged me to take time off. I'm really falling apart. My ex says he wants my positive energy in his life but then tells me I'm a mess. I feel leeched.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 Of course he reaches out to you with his woes. It's because you're available and you're a comfort to him. Yes, an emotional crutch. And it's not your job to be there for him while he spirals. When it ended, he forfeited that benefit to have you in his life to help keep him afloat. The thing is, you prioritize his pains over yours. Aren't you hurting at the expense of alleaviating his? If you're taking care of him, who's taking care of you. He's not doing it. Yes? I am dying at his expense at this point. I'm even ****ing up at work. You're right though... why should I help him when he won't help me? Even being my friend is to help him, not because he really wants to be my friend.... But he still says he cares so deeply for me and that I mean a lot to him. I don't understand why.
Minneloa Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 I don't know that he will reach out to me like he has been even though we settled on trying to start over from square one. I don't plan to reach out to him even though it makes me very anxious. But I'm also still upset because I really thought things were going in a good way. I don't even know what to think. My boss has urged me to take time off. I'm really falling apart. My ex says he wants my positive energy in his life but then tells me I'm a mess. I feel leeched. It sounds like you need a couple of days to rest and recuperate from a very upsetting incident. Can you curl up with movies this weekend or have a friend come over? M.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 As I said in my previous post, while he may think of you of intelligent I suspect that he is incredibly self-absorbed to the point where he believes himself superior to everyone. That's why he struggles to maintain any sort of emotional connection. So he would absolutely think that you would fall for the lies, he believes them too carefully crafted to be deconstructed by anyone on the outside. In response to what you've said to other posters, you aren't tearing this apart and you shouldn't feel like the blame is on you. Do those feelings of guilt derive from your conversations with him? Is that why he gets angry when I point out that I see right through? I guess all this time I thought he was confused, gave the benefit of the doubt, and he was using me the whole time. Sometimes I think he's just come back because he saw on tumblr I've since started to learn how to tattoo and that is cool to him. I guess it's because of him I feel that way. I'm struggling with a lot of things and whenever I bring up something hard, he acts like its because I don't have it together. When things are good I really like talking to him though. But maybe he's gas lighting me? I dunno. I just know things were great and then suddenly I'm the bad guy for probing about this other girl. Then I'm negative and a mess and I get more and more upset.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 It sounds like you need a couple of days to rest and recuperate from a very upsetting incident. Can you curl up with movies this weekend or have a friend come over? M. Maybe. Right now I'm freaking out I'm about to get fired.....
Zahara Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 I am dying at his expense at this point. I'm even ****ing up at work. You're right though... why should I help him when he won't help me? Even being my friend is to help him, not because he really wants to be my friend.... But he still says he cares so deeply for me and that I mean a lot to him. I don't understand why. You know what, Link...I've had exes claim to have cared for me deeply and that I meant so much to them, after breaking up. Was it enough for them to actually want to be back with me. No. Someone can love and care for you, but it doesn't mean that they want to re-engage in a relationship with you. I had an ex I really cared about. I ended it with him. The fact remained. While I cared deeply, I didn't necessarily want to go down that road again.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 You know what, Link...I've had exes claim to have cared for me deeply and that I meant so much to them, after breaking up. Was it enough for them to actually want to be back with me. No. Someone can love and care for you, but it doesn't mean that they want to re-engage in a relationship with you. I had an ex I really cared about. I ended it with him. The fact remained. While I cared deeply, I didn't necessarily want to go down that road again. But you probably didn't jerk that person around. I feel really betrayed because its like he wants all the benefits of having me around but none of the responsibility. And that's just not who I thought he was.
Zahara Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 But you probably didn't jerk that person around. I feel really betrayed because its like he wants all the benefits of having me around but none of the responsibility. And that's just not who I thought he was. Well, I have been jerked around. Just as you. Your situation is not unique. It happens all the time. You're not the only one to be confused by the sudden change in behavior.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 Well, I have been jerked around. Just as you. Your situation is not unique. It happens all the time. You're not the only one to be confused by the sudden change in behavior. I'm not saying it is. But I still am not happy about it. And I still almost hope something turns around. Because I just can't believe he's this calculating jerk. It seems wrong.
Zahara Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 I'm not saying it is. But I still am not happy about it. And I still almost hope something turns around. Because I just can't believe he's this calculating jerk. It seems wrong. It's wrong but unfortunately you can't control how people behave. One thing I've learned, when people show you who they are, believe them. 1
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 It's wrong but unfortunately you can't control how people behave. One thing I've learned, when people show you who they are, believe them. Like I guess the reason this is hard is because it's so opposite of what I know of him. I knew him to be incredibly kind and gentle, and being around him honestly soothed me and made me feel better. Since the break, he's turned into this crazy monster I don't even recognize, even though it wears his face. Like it's only gotten weirder and weirder. He definitely didn't act like this when we were together, even when we had rough patches.
Zahara Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Like I guess the reason this is hard is because it's so opposite of what I know of him. I knew him to be incredibly kind and gentle, and being around him honestly soothed me and made me feel better. Since the break, he's turned into this crazy monster I don't even recognize, even though it wears his face. Like it's only gotten weirder and weirder. He definitely didn't act like this when we were together, even when we had rough patches. Some months ago, a poster under the moniker J_L_C posted a similar thread. An ex that treated her so lovely but after they broke up, he turned into a real jerk. He wanted to use her. She received pages and pages of advice and her problem was that she could not come to terms as to why he was so nice and then turned into a user. When someone is genuine -- compassionate, honest, empathetic, kind and when in the relationship with you, respected and loved you as a partner, they exhibit the same behaviors once you're broken up. They leave you alone, allow you to heal to help you move on. Their behavior is consistent pre and post relationship. Just as you stated that I didn't jerk that guy around. It would have been wrong to do that. When behavior does a 180, it's inconsistent. When it's inconsistent, don't hold on to who he was, focus on who he is NOW. Don't try and justify that maybe this could be a phase or some sort of lapse in his judgement. He's treating you this way because this is who he is. You have to accept that. People don't just turn. It's because it's within them to want to behave that way.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 Some months ago, a poster under the moniker J_L_C posted a similar thread. An ex that treated her so lovely but after they broke up, he turned into a real jerk. He wanted to use her. She received pages and pages of advice and her problem was that she could not come to terms as to why he was so nice and then turned into a user. When someone is genuine -- compassionate, honest, empathetic, kind and when in the relationship with you, respected and loved you as a partner, they exhibit the same behaviors once you're broken up. They leave you alone, allow you to heal to help you move on. Their behavior is consistent pre and post relationship. Just as you stated that I didn't jerk that guy around. It would have been wrong to do that. When behavior does a 180, it's inconsistent. When it's inconsistent, don't hold on to who he was, focus on who he is NOW. Don't try and justify that maybe this could be a phase or some sort of lapse in his judgement. He's treating you this way because this is who he is. You have to accept that. People don't just turn. It's because it's within them to want to behave that way. I mean, that makes some amount of sense as to why he has this long trail of girlfriends before me who suffered the same fate. I guess it's just difficult because I was very happy and I felt like my life was finally turning around and then the rug was yanked out under my feet. And all the pushing and pulling has gotten me to a point where I think I was about to have another breakdown if it weren't for this forum and the fact that my job STRONGLY suggested that I take some medical leave to get my head on straight. So today is the first day of that :/ But I guess it just sucks thinking that the perfect thing you thought you had was just a dream. I feel like there is a disconnect between who he is and who he wants to be, but he thinks that he's much more on top of it than he is. What I am at least taking away from all of this is that it's his problem and I can't keep hurting myself for someone who won't even try to stop the bleeding. I still hope he gets his **** together one day, but I am realizing that he has a LOT more crap to deal with than I thought before.
Author LinkWorshiper Posted September 1, 2013 Author Posted September 1, 2013 Last week, my ex and I started talking again and it was like old times. Almost alarmingly so. He was messaging me every day and interested in what I was doing and wanting to play games with me and hang out. It sounded like a good thing to me, but since the reason I had initiated NC with him in the first place was because he had said he was interested in some other girl, I wanted to make sure he wasn't still seeing her if he was going to be talking to me so much. I tried to be subtle at first, and then just outright asked him. He got upset with me for not already knowing that he was still seeing her and acted like I was so out of line for wanting to know. It cued a huge argument where he said a lot of hurtful things, though it ended with us deciding to try rebooting our communication. So he's literally talking to me on FB right now. He opened with "I think we can be okay, we just need patience, and we have all the time in the world." The rest of the conversation was us pretty much just laying out what we wanted from each other, which boiled down to empathy and respect. He expressed that he was worried he wasn't in a place to meet me where I'm at, but I told him avoiding the problem wasn't going to help any. He also said he wasn't looking for anything serious right now and just wanted people he could count on. Then he brought up plans I thought were abandoned to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge tomorrow. He knows I am obsessed with suspension bridges. Anyway, our conversation seems to be going in a positive direction right now. I know not to expect anything out of him, and I know he's not looking for seriousness anywhere, just trying to stop the **** storm in his head. I am still wary about this other girl, but I also wonder why he is working so hard to keep me in his life in a positive way? I just want to be prepared I guess. Thoughts?
Mariposa10 Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 Ugh!! I hate when people do this!!! How long did you guys date for? What did you break up?
Misfortune Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 I would back off. He's just having his way with 2 women at the same time. If he wants to be with you, let him show it by letting go of his other girl. Cheaters and manipulators acts the way he is. Actions speak louder than words.
Minneloa Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 LW, Given what you have posted in your other threads about your current emotional state and inability to eat or sleep, I strongly urge you to put the focus on taking care of yourself right now rather than interacting further with your ex. Please, please, please, prioritize yourself, not this man and the emotional turmoil he creates. M.
on_the_edge Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 The cynic in me sees him using you as a fallback (thus his determination to keep you in goodstanding), but he might simply be utterly confused, incapable (at least at the moment) to assertively say "I want this, I don't want that", which may also explain his aggressive reaction to your question (fickle people don't like to be called out on their fickle behavior - it's their comfort zone, so to speak) Is he typically fickle? I don't want to assume he is here either. You helped me out earlier, and I'm sure you'd love to hear good news, but you want to "be prepared", so maybe this can help you some. Tread slowly. Hang out some more with an eye vigilant for particular patterns. If the mixed signals continue for too long, you ought to call him out on it though (better to have a clear idea of where you stand than getting strung along for a ride through purgatory) He may be madly in love with you inside, but if his actions reflect something else, really, what does it matter?
BC1980 Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 My situation is similar. My ex broke up with me 4 months ago. Said he was confused and couldn't make a decision at this time. We both initiated contact for the first 2 months, but he initiated all the contact for the next 2 months. That was purposeful on my part because I wanted to see if he would contact me. Well, he would never go more than 2 days without a text or call. We even saw each other a few times. Well, I got sick of it, so I actually talked to him on the phone and told him I needed NC. I was very nice about it, and he ended up writing me an email about how he was so worried I had another boyfriend, how it's been hard for him and he misses me. But. . . . you know, he still needs time. He's just still so confused. But he can't hold me down if I want to date someone else. But it would hurt him if I did. Also, add to the mix that he isn't selling my engagement ring back because he just can't say at this point. You get the idea. That phone call was all I needed to go strict NC. I told him that he didn't need to contact me. I would contact him if I felt it necessary. This decision was sad and took a lot for me to do. But I feel so liberated at this point. Yes, I am sad, but I know, in my heart, that I did the right thing. This man was using me as an emotional crutch, as someone else said about your ex. He wanted me for companionship and someone to talk to, but he didn't want to commit to marry me. It was that simple when it came down to it. He wanted all the benefits and comfort of a relationship without the effort or commitment. My ex has no family here and few friends because he is a workaholic. He had me, and he would not let go of me. He was also keeping me around to keep his options open. He had a big decision to make in June, and guess who he called to talk about it? I advise you to go NC now and not make the same mistake I did. I wanted to believe that my ex wouldn't do these things to me. I wanted to believe he wanted to work on the relationship. He literally would not leave me alone until I requested it. For your own sanity, go NC. It's been so good for me not to worry about his next text, what I will say, and if he will want to see me. It's been so nice not to have to worry about the status of our relationship like I did for the last year of it. For me, NC was worth it to be emotionally free. 1
Author LinkWorshiper Posted September 1, 2013 Author Posted September 1, 2013 Ugh!! I hate when people do this!!! How long did you guys date for? What did you break up? We dated for 2.5 years and we broke up because he had a freak out in the middle of an argument and just quit the whole thing on the spot. It's been an emotional roller coaster since then, trying to be friends, NC, now this. I can't tell what his angle is. Things can't be going that great with his new squeeze if he's telling me he doesn't want ANYTHING serious now and he just wants empathy and support while he figures things out and that he recognizes that we just have to work on understanding each other etc. So I'm a little unsure if it's genuine or what. This is the kind of talking I wished we'd been doing MONTHS ago....
Mariposa10 Posted September 1, 2013 Posted September 1, 2013 We dated for 2.5 years and we broke up because he had a freak out in the middle of an argument and just quit the whole thing on the spot. It's been an emotional roller coaster since then, trying to be friends, NC, now this. I can't tell what his angle is. Things can't be going that great with his new squeeze if he's telling me he doesn't want ANYTHING serious now and he just wants empathy and support while he figures things out and that he recognizes that we just have to work on understanding each other etc. So I'm a little unsure if it's genuine or what. This is the kind of talking I wished we'd been doing MONTHS ago.... My ex is pretty much doing the same thing your ex is doing. Here's my story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/second-chances/412572-don-t-know I think you have to decide whether he's worth it. Can you see yourself in the future with him? If you do, maybe you can try LC?? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/second-chances/412572-don-t-know This is the way I'm handling things: Your Ex Confused About His/Her Feelings For You? | | Ask Love Doctor Yangki Christine Akiteng I think the main question is whether he's worth it or not. If not, just ask him to stop contacting you and that you want to move on. Good luck.
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