C00kie Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 So I called him to wish him a happy birthday (we're in different towns so wont be together). He had told me days ago that of course I could call, that he was going to work as usual, and that he would never not talk to me on his bday. I called him, but the way he talked...he wasn't at work. He was with her. Or maybe there were other people around, I don't know. Or maybe I'm imagining things. He talked nicely and all that, but briefly, and said "thanks for remembering". Of course I'd remember. We talk everyday, we're "together". So he obviously said that because she (or someone else...) was around and wanted to make it look like it was a normal conversation. He, the one who says he loves me more than anything (but probably doesn't really know the full meaning of love, and also doesn't understand the impact of little things like these on me...). I had been fearing this would happen. That I would call him on a bad time and he would treat me like some old guy friend. And it hurts. He's loving when she' not around, and when she is he makes me feel the last person on earth. He may not realise it, but....I think I'd realise that if I was him. I know, that's just how things work under these circumstances...but it hurts.
bentleychic Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 That is hard. I know sometimes when MM is at the office and it's busy and I say I love him, he'll respond "Ditto." I'm like...ditto? LOL It's not like they know it's not your wife on the phone. You CAN say I love you. haha He's gotten a lot better about that more recently, though.
canuckprincess Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 So I called him to wish him a happy birthday (we're in different towns so wont be together). He had told me days ago that of course I could call, that he was going to work as usual, and that he would never not talk to me on his bday. I called him, but the way he talked...he wasn't at work. He was with her. Or maybe there were other people around, I don't know. Or maybe I'm imagining things. He talked nicely and all that, but briefly, and said "thanks for remembering". Of course I'd remember. We talk everyday, we're "together". So he obviously said that because she (or someone else...) was around and wanted to make it look like it was a normal conversation. He, the one who says he loves me more than anything (but probably doesn't really know the full meaning of love, and also doesn't understand the impact of little things like these on me...). I had been fearing this would happen. That I would call him on a bad time and he would treat me like some old guy friend. And it hurts. He's loving when she' not around, and when she is he makes me feel the last person on earth. He may not realise it, but....I think I'd realise that if I was him. I know, that's just how things work under these circumstances...but it hurts. I don't know how long you've been with your mm but I know if my feelings were hurt I would simply tell my mm. Sometimes we don't always realize how our actions can hurt others. After close to 8 years with constant contact I can tell mm anything and everything. I guess I'm one of the luckier ones. 1
Speakingofwhich Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 So sorry you had to endure this on his b'day, Cookie! (Thought I posted on this about ten minutes ago. Guess it didn't go thru for some reason) Most of the MM's/MW's don't realize the pain that being in an A causes a single person, I don't think. Then they are surprised when the SOW/SOM bolts for the door to escape when they find it open a bit.
bentleychic Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I can tell MM everything, too, for sure. Probably wasn't the right time for her to do it, though if he obviously had company. 1
Author C00kie Posted August 29, 2013 Author Posted August 29, 2013 I don't know how long you've been with your mm but I know if my feelings were hurt I would simply tell my mm. Sometimes we don't always realize how our actions can hurt others. After close to 8 years with constant contact I can tell mm anything and everything. I guess I'm one of the luckier ones. But if I was to tell him that, it wouldn't change a thing. If he was with her, what other thing could he have done? He would just say "well, she was around, I couldn't really talk...". If it was some other thing, I would tell him and maybe he'd change his ways. But this...it is what it is. He's not gonna tell me he loves me or misses me in front of her. Oh well... 1
Speakingofwhich Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 But if I was to tell him that, it wouldn't change a thing. If he was with her, what other thing could he have done? He would just say "well, she was around, I couldn't really talk...". If it was some other thing, I would tell him and maybe he'd change his ways. But this...it is what it is. He's not gonna tell me he loves me or misses me in front of her. Oh well... Exactly! The nature of the feast!
Red Wolverine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 So I called him to wish him a happy birthday (we're in different towns so wont be together). He had told me days ago that of course I could call, that he was going to work as usual, and that he would never not talk to me on his bday. I called him, but the way he talked...he wasn't at work. He was with her. Or maybe there were other people around, I don't know. Or maybe I'm imagining things. He talked nicely and all that, but briefly, and said "thanks for remembering". Of course I'd remember. We talk everyday, we're "together". So he obviously said that because she (or someone else...) was around and wanted to make it look like it was a normal conversation. He, the one who says he loves me more than anything (but probably doesn't really know the full meaning of love, and also doesn't understand the impact of little things like these on me...). I had been fearing this would happen. That I would call him on a bad time and he would treat me like some old guy friend. And it hurts. He's loving when she' not around, and when she is he makes me feel the last person on earth. He may not realise it, but....I think I'd realise that if I was him. I know, that's just how things work under these circumstances...but it hurts. The way this made you feel is a smack of reality. This is him when he's in his "real" life. This is how he manages to act when he's deceiving his wife.... Cool and calculated. Once in a while, you get to see how it feels to be treated when he's protecting himself and it's humbling. You can't imagine ever talking in such a casual and dismissive way to him yet look how easy it was for him. In retrospect, this happened to me a couple of times. He didn't sound like the same person and it was unsettling. Truth is they know what they are doing and they don't care. While it seems like it's just that moment that is all about self-preservation, in reality, it's all the time. Just takes moments like this to realize it. 6
Red Wolverine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I want to add: Why do some women willingly place themselves in this humiliating position? They think it's not him, it's the situation. Most OW have an affair compartment of their own.... One set of behaviors acceptable when they are with MM and one set of behaviors (crappy) when they are apart. It's necessary to justify staying in an affair. The MM knows it's all good when the OW starts making excuses for him.... "You were with her, busy, etc." Problem is the OW believes one day this will all be different when they are together all the time. That day seldom comes. 3
Realist3 Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 But if I was to tell him that, it wouldn't change a thing. If he was with her, what other thing could he have done? He would just say "well, she was around, I couldn't really talk...". If it was some other thing, I would tell him and maybe he'd change his ways. But this...it is what it is. He's not gonna tell me he loves me or misses me in front of her. Oh well... Yes. You have to accept that this the relationship you have chosen and there are built in restrictions. I really don't see why you would be hurt by this. 2
Red Wolverine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 When we are in an affair, sometimes concessions must be made. The thing you must ask yourself is: Is it worth it? Is what you're getting enough? Will things ever change if you need them to or are you willing to stay in this kind of relationship forever? In my case, there were instances of this, but not many. When it happened, it hurt my feelings. But. For me, it was worth all of the other positives in the relationship. The fact that we were working toward a solution helped to smooth things when I got ruffled, but that was just us. We didn't plan to stay in the affair. Some people are happy being the AP, and that is okay if that is what you want. In that case it just has to become part of the deal that there will be these things. And honestly, while it hurts, it's a pretty small thing. Hang in there. I know it's not easy. This year for his birthday it was the first time I could send him a gift to his office, because everyone knows about us and we are a couple now. It definitely felt good. But... when we were in the throes of the affair, it was enough at the time. Chin up. Know his feelings aren't a lie, he just had other things going on at that moment and I'm sure you'll hear from him soon. xx Couple of points.... It was ultimately worth it to you because you're together. The OP is not in that situation and probably won't be. Your post struck me because of the bolded parts. I actually asked xMM, "is this worth it" on Christmas night. All the sneaking around to simply email me with a house full of people to juggle. He emailed me through the day as if it was comparable to spending the holiday with me. No, it wasn't enough and I ended it the next day. I'm a proponent of taking these moments and really absorbing them. It's reality and it only gets worse. At these times, you really know where you stand. 2
Speakingofwhich Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I want to add: Why do some women willingly place themselves in this humiliating position? For the some of the same reasons an obese person eats that extra piece of pie, cake, or candy. Or the alcoholic takes a drink. Or a shoplifter risks being arrested. Or a cutter.......etc etc etc. Negative behaviors=humiliating consequences.
fanine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I dunno, I sometimes think an OW gets extra sensitive to anything that isn't gushing admiration and love. That could quite easily be a response someone else could also get from him if he was feeling a bit grumpy or whatever. I know exes, ex-husband in the past who could be 'huh' sometimes if they weren't feeling like talking etc, birthday or not.....I think OWs just take anything that seems like a possible slight more personally because of the whole scenario. 2
Speakingofwhich Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I'm a proponent of taking these moments and really absorbing them. It's reality and it only gets worse. At these times, you really know where you stand. This is priceless advice for those wishing to get out of an A and not knowing how. A couple of days ago I saw MM's BW's photo online and it was a horrible experience for me. Within 12 hours we had ended the A. Whenever I feel I need a reality check I pull it up again. It has done wonders for me. Better than six months of therapy! How awful, Red, to be getting those Christmas emails! Shows the disconnect between being MM/MW and OW/OM. They think the crumbs are nourishing when in fact they're insulting. I think one way I got, and possibly others got, hooked into an A is that even a legit man/woman relationship usually begins with small gestures. So, since A and regular relationship begin in similar ways a person can emotionally convince themselves that an A may progress the same way a legit relationship would. Nada! Then by the time you realize they are not progressing similarly you are trapped! 2
Red Wolverine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 This is priceless advice for those wishing to get out of an A and not knowing how. A couple of days ago I saw MM's BW's photo online and it was a horrible experience for me. Within 12 hours we had ended the A. Whenever I feel I need a reality check I pull it up again. It has done wonders for me. Better than six months of therapy! How awful, Red, to be getting those Christmas emails! Shows the disconnect between being MM/MW and OW/OM. They think the crumbs are nourishing when in fact they're insulting. I think one way I got, and possibly others got, hooked into an A is that even a legit man/woman relationship usually begins with small gestures. So, since A and regular relationship begin in similar ways a person can emotionally convince themselves that an A may progress the same way a legit relationship would. Nada! Then by the time you realize they are not progressing similarly you are trapped! Yes you're trapped but.. You also have your finger on the eject button. 4
happy stillmore Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) That would hurt me too. If xMM would have talked coldly to me, no matter the circumstance. I was hoping that he would put our love on a pedestal, above all else (wife included. I was dreaming I know.) In a sense, that is what xMM was doing to me though when he could only text when he was alone. I was second in his life. When I realized that, I had to end it to save my self. To respect myself. It makes me angry when I think about how he would ever believe that was enough for me. He was in shock when I ended it finally. I remember those moments of feeling hurt and sad when waiting for his emails, knowing he was afraid to cause waves with his wife. It was all a charade. I love you. I can't live without you. Well, if that was true, he would have done everything possible to move out, be free to do what he want. Chicken sh#@. (Angry moment slowly turning to acceptance. I go back and forth) Edited August 29, 2013 by happy stillmore 1
Hazyhead Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Exactly! The nature of the feast! Exactly this. As an OW/OM we get used to seeing our AP at their best, as in careful, considered and moderated behaviour. We get the 'good' side, because its essential for maintaining the status quo. When we see a different mood from them we take it personally because they've never been like that before. If he was in front of his wife, there's no way he would ever be loving, in fact, you're lucky he answered the phone. I remember being hurt by similar incidents, then wondering if he was pulling away from me, etc. You have to learn to let those moments go, if he is what you want. It's these times when OW get the scraps and reality hits. 3
fanine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Exactly this. As an OW/OM we get used to seeing our AP at their best, as in careful, considered and moderated behaviour. We get the 'good' side, because its essential for maintaining the status quo. When we see a different mood from them we take it personally because they've never been like that before. If he was in front of his wife, there's no way he would ever be loving, in fact, you're lucky he answered the phone. I remember being hurt by similar incidents, then wondering if he was pulling away from me, etc. You have to learn to let those moments go, if he is what you want. It's these times when OW get the scraps and reality hits. But surely these moments can happen in any relationship anyway - exactly as you say - we normally get them at their best. With past relationships I cant say that every single time I talked/met/texted an ex/ex husband it was always lovey dovey. People get different moods - even on birthdays etc. I know myself sometimes I answer the phone to say my mum and then realise I am really not in the right mood to talk and probably come across grumpy. I think though that OWs are surprised when they see any behaviour less than perfect, get paranoid, take it personally, and think somehow it means they are going to lose their man. 2
Hazyhead Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 But surely these moments can happen in any relationship anyway - exactly as you say - we normally get them at their best. With past relationships I cant say that every single time I talked/met/texted an ex/ex husband it was always lovey dovey. People get different moods - even on birthdays etc. I know myself sometimes I answer the phone to say my mum and then realise I am really not in the right mood to talk and probably come across grumpy. I think though that OWs are surprised when they see any behaviour less than perfect, get paranoid, take it personally, and think somehow it means they are going to lose their man. This is what I meant. But we do see a moderated side of them - the affair moments: they're the fun part. My exAP was always perfectly behaved and so considerate but now we are together properly I see his grumps, the times he needs space to work through a mood and all that less than 'perfect' behaviour. As he does mine, which in turn, I never showed him during the A. Not properly anyway. 3
fanine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 [/b] This is what I meant. But we do see a moderated side of them - the affair moments: they're the fun part. My exAP was always perfectly behaved and so considerate but now we are together properly I see his grumps, the times he needs space to work through a mood and all that less than 'perfect' behaviour. As he does mine, which in turn, I never showed him during the A. Not properly anyway. I guess with mine, the first 8 months I didnt know he wasn't exactly separated. So during that time I just behaved how I normally did in a relationship and I would pull him up on any strange behaviour etc, etc - because I thought he was single.... Once I found out he was basically back with her I went NC a couple of times and each time let him back in - until I finally did it properly. But during the whole time together I think we both saw the real side of each other. If I called him and he was grumpy I would just say I will talk to you when you're in a better mood. So I guess it was all slightly different for me.....
Hazyhead Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I guess with mine, the first 8 months I didnt know he wasn't exactly separated. So during that time I just behaved how I normally did in a relationship and I would pull him up on any strange behaviour etc, etc - because I thought he was single.... Once I found out he was basically back with her I went NC a couple of times and each time let him back in - until I finally did it properly. But during the whole time together I think we both saw the real side of each other. If I called him and he was grumpy I would just say I will talk to you when you're in a better mood. So I guess it was all slightly different for me..... That is different from my experience. Fanine, in a way, yours must have been harder: to have known him almost as a boyfriend, then discover the truth? Sorry, I don't know your story, are you out of it all now?
fanine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 That is different from my experience. Fanine, in a way, yours must have been harder: to have known him almost as a boyfriend, then discover the truth? Sorry, I don't know your story, are you out of it all now? Yes more or less. It was all rather complicated! But getting on with life now....
Hazyhead Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Yes more or less. It was all rather complicated! But getting on with life now.... Sounds it! You're better off now, out of the drama.
fanine Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Sounds it! You're better off now, out of the drama. This place has been great though to try and understand everything that I have been through. Fact is I should have kicked him to touch as soon as I found out he had gone back to his wife. But I didn't straight away - but then the whole dynamics did change in a sense...it did take time, as it had just seemed like a normal relationship. We got on so well, seemed so in love... It is a rather long story, and I have learnt much I guess about myself as well through it all. 1
Hazyhead Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 This place has been great though to try and understand everything that I have been through. Fact is I should have kicked him to touch as soon as I found out he had gone back to his wife. But I didn't straight away - but then the whole dynamics did change in a sense...it did take time, as it had just seemed like a normal relationship. We got on so well, seemed so in love... It is a rather long story, and I have learnt much I guess about myself as well through it all. We all have those long stories, and you're right: this place is great. For me, it beat any therapy that I tried. Good luck to you, fanine, you did what many are too afraid to do and in the end your life will only get better.
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