If you only knew

[Owl]

Tattoo- I'd agree, the blame absolutely does fall back on the married person at least as much as the OM/OW. Take a look at the response I'd given Izzy at the top of the page, where I talk about why us "betrayed spouses" place the blame the way we do. It really isn't logical or fair, I'll totally grant you that. There isn't a single darn thing fair or logical in the whole "affair" thing at all.

 

In my case, my wife is every bit as much to blame as the OM. She too had a lot of options on how to handle the situation we were in, but she chose the affair instead of any of the others. BUT, if I want to keep her (and I do!! ), I have to forgive what happened. And I have, with the caveat that I'll never forgive anything like this again. Boo me once... Anyway, I've honestly tried to forgive him as well. I even have to admit he did a number of honorable things during and after the affair to try to make sure that my wife was making the right choices, and that she was taken care of. Even with that, I find that I haven't been able to forgive him for his part in this. Again, not fair, not logical, not rational.

 

I agree with you that both parties (even all three...I know that my wife wasn't happy in our marriage, and that regardless of how hard I TRIED, I failed to make our marriage as good as it could have been) have a share in the fault game.

[I Survived]

I just want you all to know why I'm holding the OW responsible in my situation. My husband and I have had long conversations about his "affair" and what we have discovered is this. He was not looking to have an illicit affair with anyone. He was very unhappy, didn't know what to do about it, and figured that it was his fate. SHE contacted him after 30 years of no contact. SHE was on the hunt. Their relationship ended badly 30 years ago and when she contacted him he thought she was the last person he would ever hear from again and he had an opportunity to make up for dumping her back then. He admitted that with her he felt like a teenager once more. The woman is a compulsive adulterous. My husband was not her first nor do I suspect, her last. He admitted that she fed his ego, that with her there was no drudgery of everyday living. He didn't have to worry about the bills, or taking out the trash or fixing the broken whatever. Because he felt so good with her, it made it even worse with me. I held him responsible for his part and I accepted my part, too. But, he wasn't looking. It was a case of time and opportunity. And no - I'm not just being naive. Our discussions about the time are very open and honest. No more lies.

[Owl]

I can see your point, Stillhurting, but I'm not sure I completely agree with your reasoning. My wife wasn't looking for an affair either...and in a lot of cases, I doubt that the spouse who strayed was. In some cases, absolutely. But in situations like ours, they were'nt actively looking for it, it kinda found them. BUT, that doesn't negate the fact that they made the CHOICE to continue with the affair. They CHOSE to do what they did, right along with the OP who was involved. My wife CHOSE to keep going with the emotional online affair even when she knew it was beyond what it should have been. She didn't tell me, even when she had the chance. Our spouses deliberately HID this from us. Based on that, they are at least equally to blame. Sorry, but I would have to include your husband in this too, based on the little information that I've got on your situation. Now, you can forgive him based on the circumstances, and that is entirely your call. I would hope that your husband at least acknowledges what he did wrong, or I would have a major concern with him doing this again and not accepting any responsibility. I know that this I had to forgive my wife in my situation if I wanted to try to get past what happened and rebuild my marriage.

[I Survived]

Thanks Owl - I hear what you're saying. I never said I didn't hold him responsible for what he did and he has acknowledged what he did was wrong. Somehow that keeps getting lost in my thread. He and I are really good now. I hope you and your wife are or will be very soon. Life is too short. Take care.

[Patiently waiting]

In my case I was looking for an affair, but not with anyone in particular. I wasn't looking for a married man, he just happened to be the one that took the most interest in me at the time I was needing to find someone. It's rare to find a decent single guy these days, especially when you are in your mid 30's and have 2 kids. Plus it wasn't like I could just go galavanting around town looking for anyone. I was still married. Plus I had 2 jobs. The other job (at night) sometimes would let people leave early and that gave me the opportunity to go out. But I couldn't go out to a bar or anything, I couldn't be seen running around since I know a lot of people where I live. I also had very limited time. So it was a matter of convenience to start off with. We worked in the same building, he is a manager and could pretty much leave during the day at any time I could. Plus he worked a couple nights a week and I would go meet him the times I got off early. Again, he could just take off and no one would notice or care. Well, we were spotted hanging out together by the maintenance crew....but that's a whole other story.....that's how we almost lost our jobs.....

 

Anyway, I had been tired of being treated like nothing by my husband (who was still actively communicating with his OW, which I didn't know, but felt something was still wrong). I just couldn't forgive him for what he had done the year before. He didn't make any attempt to make it up to me, expected me to make him want to be with me and not with her! I felt like s--t! Plus he told me no one would want me anyway. Now, that is really weird cause he knows I would never buy that. I mean I am pretty damn good looking, I have had guys falling all over me at my job for years! But I always shrugged them off cause I was in love with my husband. I felt the need at this point to get him back but wasn't sure how to do it. The guys at work were ok, but I needed something special. I realized that just anyone would not do. I realized that to truly get back at my Husband, I had to fall in love with someone else as he had done. After all, sex is only a part of it, for us women it's the emotional part that we feel is more the cheating part to begin with. I don't even know if my Husband ever slept with his OW, he only admitted to kissing her once (I think it was more than once though based on some e-mails I discovered). Either way, he betrayed me in his heart and that was what killed my love for him ultimately.

 

I felt so much better when I fell in love, I had really stuck it to him although he would never know and still doesn't. He almost found out, read an e-mail i had written to a girlfriend of mine. But I blew it off and weaseled my way out of it. (My MM told me what to say, and it worked!) He really was an expert! So, after a few months I was totally over my hurt from my husband cheating. One day we got in a big fight (bigger than the ones that were already occuring) and kicked him out.

 

Now I am saddened that I have no one to love, or to love me. It sucks. One minute I was on the Matterhorn and the next I am in the Haunted House (Disneyland reference here, for those not in California).

My husband is very cold to me, we are getting divorced, he actually filed shortly after I kicked him out. Guess he needed a way out but didn't want to look like the bad guy or the one that instigated the break up. What a wuss!! I noticed a lot of guys are like this. Women are more clear in their decisons, when it's over, they leave.

 

So, sometimes I wonder what would have happened if we stayed married, or would we anyway? I mean he was getting downright mean, holding me down and yelling at me, and refusing to help me in any way. He even told me once that i was lucky he even came home at night or had a job and that he was not the mom here. But I was the one who had to work 2 jobs cause he was too lazy. So he bitched about taking care of the kids when i was working. Poor thing....couldn't go out and see HIS OW, he was stuck at home....boo hoo!!! All he did was e-mail her and his friends on the computer all night anyway. Oh, and talk on his cell phone. I always got the bill since I was the one that paid all of them. Didn't he think I would see who he was talking to and how long he was on the phone. Idiot!

 

Well, I know I'm rambling here. But the point is that I was looking for an affair, I needed it. I needed to feel that I was desireable to someone who I thought was desireable. But, unfortunately the guy was married. At the time I didn't care cause he said his marriage sucked too. I thought we were 2 of a kind, and would wind up living in eternal bliss....boy was I wrong!!!! I would have never purposefully chosen a MM, he just showed up one day. I wish he would have been single, believe me! I wouldn't be going thru the hell I am going thru now if he was........

[izzybelle]

PW,

i think your situation is more common than many would admit. i would guess that, perhaps subconsciously, many of those who "cheat" are looking for someone. they may not even admit this to themselves let alone anyone else, expecially their spouses. so i give you a lot of credit for owning up to your own feelings. it's so, so easy to blame it all on someone else, or say the ever popular "it just happened." perhaps the situation presented itself for the initial "meeting" to just happen but for those that continue, i believe, it takes a conscious decision on their part. they are consciously making the decision to cheat.

that is perhaps the main reason why i sometimes get a little disturbed when they try to place so much of the residual blame on the OM/OW. perhaps the MM/MW was pursued to begin with, but they still had the option to say no. that doesn't make the OM/OW in the right but it also doesn't make the MM/MW as innocent as they'd sometimes like their spouses to believe. especially it the A continues for an extended period of time. oh... it just happened and i was pursued doesn't cut it for me if the affair went on for months, or years.

i know somewhere in this thread or another, the comment was made that if all the OW/OMs out there didn't exist or said "no" then a lot of heartache would be spared. true, but at the same time, if the MMs and MWs said "no", like they should, it really wouldn't matter how many OW/OMs there were in the world. it shouldn't matter that they're being tempted, they are ultimately the ones who are being "untrue." i'm not saying that the OW/OMs are blameless because we're not and in my case i could have said "no". and in some ways i half-heartedly tried, and we had a few long discussions about his marital state. whether or not i was stupid in believing him or not doesn't really matter. he pursued me and convinced me that his marriage was over and he wanted a future with me. i still could have said no get divorced first, but he also could have accepted my concerns and backed out as well. it didn't just happen, it was a two way decision and one that i won't accept all the blame for. i wasn't breaking any vows, i'm single, he's not and knew what he was doing at the time.

[izzybelle]

owl,

on my drive in, i was thinking about your question about the impact this discussion may have had on me as an OW. i realized something that probably wasn't the initial impact that anyone may have expected from all of this. having listened to the pain that an A can cause the betrayed spouse and knowing what happened on the OW side of the affair, i think what has changed the most would be my willingness to accept cheating from a spouse. i think knowing some of the things that may be said on your side from the cheater to try to heal the marriage and knowing what was said to me, there's little doubt in my mind that i would believe what my spouse told me about the A. my MMs wife saw a few emails from me, i doubt very much that she saw many, if any from him to me. if i was the W and saw messages from my H to an OW professing his love, planning a life with her, saying that the marriage "wasn't worth the paper it was written on," that his life had been empty, that he'd never loved anyone this much before...... there's no way in he** i'd EVER believe "it was a mistake" "i didn't mean for it to happen" "it didn't mean anything" "i'm sorry" or any of the other phrases that might come out of his mouth to save his butt and his marriage. whether or not i believe what my MM said to me, just the thought that if he was my H, that he could have possibly said those things to someone else would be enough for me to kick his butt to the curb.

perhaps i know too much now. or perhaps i'm just jaded from this whole experience. but reading what you and others go through and knowing what was said on the other end of the affair, "i'm sorry" wouldn't cut it, nor would "i really love you." it wouldn't work and he'd be gone.

[Owl]

Izzy-

 

I can completely understand your comments and feelings. And you know, my wife and I had always joked with each other that if either of us cheated, the other would be gone, and would take everything they could from the cheater. That morning when I found out for sure what was going on, I left the house wanting to take some time to think. She was convinced that I'd left her for good...either hitting the road and leaving her and the kids, hitting the road to go "meet" the OM (you guess what she thought would happen there...), or something along those lines. I don't think she honestly expected that I'd try to work it out and take her back. In truth, before that point, neither did I.

 

I've heard it said on this forum and the Infedelity one many times...you don't know what you'd really do until your actually in that situation, and its true.

 

I suspected my wife's affair for about four weeks (it really had gotten out of hand for a total of about six weeks or so). It was mostly a matter of the distancing between her and me (and the rest of the family really) for those first few weeks. Remember that we played in an online game which is where she met the OM. I'd seen one virtual "kiss" that made me uncomfortable, but she managed to talk that off, and it was easy to believe that it was a one time thing...there are a lot of guys who flirt in games, and so I let it go. Toward the end, the distancing got much worse, and I realized that she spent a lot of time during the day IMing this guy. I saw another emoticon type thing in game that I knew she didn't mean for me to see...where it talked about her crawling up into his lap and snuggling him. I got really upset with her, and told her that that was inappropriate for a married woman. She said it was just a joke, and that I had NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. She finally convinced me again...for about two days. When I got home that Friday nite, she kept trying to close a chat window with the OM so that I couldn't see what was in it. THAT finally was what made me realize something was horribly wrong. That weekend was horrible. I managed to log into her chat account, and setup the archive/logging function on it that nite.

 

I have to give them credit. He was a professional computer guru. He had her install anti-spyware software on her computer, and had originally had her checking her computer daily to make sure I wasn't logging her IMs or her in game activity. She was deleting every email she sent and got from him, and deleting all incoming and outgoing calls on her phone when they happened. Because things had gotten so intense between them, she got sloppy and didn't catch what I'd done.

 

So, that's how I caught my wife at it. It was entirely online/via phone, and hadn't had the chance to become a physical relationship, though they had just started planning on trying to meet to see if it would work out between them.

 

Because of the circumstances that we were in at the time, and how things have gone since, I believe (hope, pray) that this was a one time thing. She was dealing with untreated depression, and we were having some rough times in dealing with our teenagers at that time as well. That distance between us then made it seem like there was no love left in our relationship, so she started to accept it from another source. I really think that we've gotten to a point where if things were to feel like that for her again, she'd talk about it rather than try to act like nothing is wrong. But I have to admit that I'm still worried about it, that trust isn't totally back and will probably never be what it had been. But, after having been on OW yourself, do you really think that you would/could blindly trust a man completely now that you've been where you have been? Our marriage is to a point where being together is awesome. I still hurt, and I'm still dealing with what happened, but I love what our life together has become since. And its worth a second chance. A third or more? Not likely. But there ya go.

[izzybelle]

owl,

But, after having been on OW yourself, do you really think that you would/could blindly trust a man completely now that you've been where you have been?

at this point in my life, this soon after all that's happened, my answer is no. do i hope that that will change in time and that someone will be able to "prove" to me that love, fidelity and honesty are possible? god, i hope so, but it's going to be hard. right now, at this moment, if my exMM called and said his marriage was over and he wanted to resume his relationship with me, i don't even honestly know how i'd respond. i still love him very much, but, as much as he may have broken his trust with his wife, he also broke that with me. and i don't know how i'd react. short of having the divorce papers in my hands, i wouldn't believe any statement that his marriage was over. he said that before and it wasn't, obviously.

and i know you're right as it is in most cases that are posted about here. each situation is different and i know i don't honestly know what i'd do if i found myself in that situation.

i know you and others are working so hard at repairing the damage done and i do give you a lot of credit for not giving up. and whether if i was in your shoes i'd feel the same, i really don't know. from what i understand from my MMs wife, i was not his first affair and as she told me, she doubted i would be his last.....i can't imagine trying to rebuild a marriage if i really honestly felt that way.

izzy

[Owl]

Originally posted by izzybelle

...and whether if i was in your shoes i'd feel the same, i really don't know. from what i understand from my MMs wife, i was not his first affair and as she told me, she doubted i would be his last.....i can't imagine trying to rebuild a marriage if i really honestly felt that way.

izzy

 

 

And I can totally understand and agree with that. I'm my wife's second husband. He cheated on her...once with her own sister! I truthfully never thought we'd get to the point we were at, as I really thought she would have known better. If I really felt my wife didn't regret what happened, and wasn't giving it her all by now, I would have already walked. I love her like no one else in this world...I still truly feel that she is my "one and only". But if this were to happen again, or even come close, I wouldn't put myself through this twice.

 

I have learned a lot from this whole thing we've gone through. About myself, my wife, and our marriage. I've even learned a few good things from it. But one thing I feel now, that I didn't before. I really don't think that my trust for ANYONE will ever be the same after what I've gone through. I've lost that ability to blindly trust that I had with her. I never had it with anyone else, and I'd been burnt before. That kind of trust is something that I suspect you can only have ONCE...and once lost, its gone forever.

 

Does that mean my marriage is over? No. Does that mean I will never trust my wife? No. It does mean that I'll never trust her (or anyone) blindly again. I'll always verify. I won't always assume that it can't happen to me. Our marriage, our relationship, will never be the same. But that doesn't mean it will be bad, or not worth it. Just different.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by tattoomytoe

well i hve seen a lot of fingers pointed at the OW...but it is just as much the fault of the Married person that is doing the cheating.

 

i am not married, but i am still with my bf after he had cheated in July. i still have a very hard time believing him, and i do tell him when the times are and why. But he really makes no noticable efforts by action to dispell any of my distrusting thoughts.

 

i really want to believe that he is telling me the truth, and not just what i want to hear.

 

IMO- he should be bending over backwards to disprove any notions of cheating, and he has not, at least not to my satisfation.

 

i just think too much blame is put on the OW/ OM, when more needs to assigned if not accepted by the cheating spouse.

 

what a smart girl you are. i hope your guy knows what he has with you.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Still Hurting

I just want you all to know why I'm holding the OW responsible in my situation. My husband and I have had long conversations about his "affair" and what we have discovered is this. He was not looking to have an illicit affair with anyone. He was very unhappy, didn't know what to do about it, and figured that it was his fate. SHE contacted him after 30 years of no contact. SHE was on the hunt. Their relationship ended badly 30 years ago and when she contacted him he thought she was the last person he would ever hear from again and he had an opportunity to make up for dumping her back then. He admitted that with her he felt like a teenager once more. The woman is a compulsive adulterous. My husband was not her first nor do I suspect, her last. He admitted that she fed his ego, that with her there was no drudgery of everyday living. He didn't have to worry about the bills, or taking out the trash or fixing the broken whatever. Because he felt so good with her, it made it even worse with me. I held him responsible for his part and I accepted my part, too. But, he wasn't looking. It was a case of time and opportunity. And no - I'm not just being naive. Our discussions about the time are very open and honest. No more lies.

 

if you really believe that the OW is solely responsible for you your husband's affair, you've got a long and sad road to walk. you honestly believe that your poor little hubby didn't mean to get into an affair but was just so sad and unhappy that this floozie just hooked him in her web? she's just out there looking for poor unsuspecting men to steal from their wives? it couldn't be that maybe she was unhappy and made a mistake by getting hooked up with a man that was no only willing but a participant? you wouldn't believe the stories these married guys tell us. actually, maybe you would because you seem a bit gullible.

 

the OW usually aren't the heartless hussies it would make you feel better to believe we are. sometimes we are fooled. sometimes we make terrible mistakes. sometimes we are guilty of not thinking enough about the wife because we are fed a butt load of crap about how their wives don't understand them and that they know loving us is wrong but they just can't help themselves. and we are just as vulnerable as you are, dear.

 

maybe when you stop demonizing the OW and realize that you need to be more concerned about the state of your marriage, maybe then you can start to repair a damaged marriage that would never have been ripe for an affair if everything had been healthy at home. BLAME YOUR HUSBAND. stop thinking all OW have no hearts. often the reason we get into so much misery is because we DO have hearts - huge ones.

 

sorry for the rant. i just can't stand seeing so many smug women around here thinking we OW (or former OW) come here looking for sympathy and yet can't see their own culpability in their own problems.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by littleflowerpot

 

 

if you really believe that the OW is solely responsible for you your husband's affair, you've got a long and sad road to walk. you honestly believe that your poor little hubby didn't mean to get into an affair but was just so sad and unhappy that this floozie just hooked him in her web? she's just out there looking for poor unsuspecting men to steal from their wives? it couldn't be that maybe she was unhappy and made a mistake by getting hooked up with a man that was no only willing but a participant? you wouldn't believe the stories these married guys tell us. actually, maybe you would because you seem a bit gullible.

 

the OW usually aren't the heartless hussies it would make you feel better to believe we are. sometimes we are fooled. sometimes we make terrible mistakes. sometimes we are guilty of not thinking enough about the wife because we are fed a butt load of crap about how their wives don't understand them and that they know loving us is wrong but they just can't help themselves. and we are just as vulnerable as you are, dear.

 

maybe when you stop demonizing the OW and realize that you need to be more concerned about the state of your marriage, maybe then you can start to repair a damaged marriage that would never have been ripe for an affair if everything had been healthy at home. BLAME YOUR HUSBAND. stop thinking all OW have no hearts. often the reason we get into so much misery is because we DO have hearts - huge ones.

 

sorry for the rant. i just can't stand seeing so many smug women around here thinking we OW (or former OW) come here looking for sympathy and yet can't see their own culpability in their own problems.

 

 

This is so freakin' right on. [KMT stands and applauds LFP...]

[izzybelle]

This is so freakin' right on. [KMT stands and applauds LFP...]

 

same here....thanks LFP!!

[2Confuzed]

You took the words right out of my mouth

[izzybelle]

i have to wonder how many people out there who periodically or consistently put down OWs are friends with one without even knowing it!!! some of us are the kind of people that others like to be around because we're fun and incredibly loving people. and as LFP said, sometimes we make mistakes and sometimes we are fooled but we are people with good hearts.

[Owl]

Originally posted by izzybelle

i have to wonder how many people out there who periodically or consistently put down OWs are friends with one without even knowing it!!! some of us are the kind of people that others like to be around because we're fun and incredibly loving people. and as LFP said, sometimes we make mistakes and sometimes we are fooled but we are people with good hearts.

 

 

Odds are, they/we probably are friends with someone who's an OW/OM. LOL, some of us were even friends with our spouses OM/OW!!! I don't personally feel like all OM/OWs are evil or something. Even the @#$#@ in my wife's instance wasn't an evil person. He was a friend of mine for a while as well. Obviously, not a friend any longer.

 

I don't condemn anyone who gets in this situation personally. But I don't condone (like, appreciate, approve of, etc...) their ACTIONS in this kind of thing.

 

The one thing I struggle with is that many of the OM/OWs I've known don't take their own share of the "blame" or responsibility in the affair. OK, if you were flat lied to when you started the affair, then you can't be responsible for that. BUT, you CAN be responsible for what you do once that knowledge is there. The cheating spouse absolutely deserves the blame too, don't take me wrong. THEY know the consequences of what they're doing far better than the OM/OW can...they know the people they're hurting and betraying.

 

But, if you start an affair with someone who you know is married, or continue it once the truth comes out, then you have some definitely responsibility there. There's no dodging that. Sure, I have heard the lament "but you can't control your heart". Honestly, that's an excuse. Anyone CAN control their heart, if they choose to do so. The difference between a cheater and someone who hasn't cheated is exactly that...the person who didn't cheat DID control their heart (and the rest of their body as well). EVERYONE is tempted...the choice to give in to that temptation or to continue once the full circumstances are known is what makes the difference.

 

As far as breaking it off once you find out that the person you're with is married... I'll grant it would be darn tough to do then. BUT, with the sudden realization that this person ISN'T who you thought they were, why would you want to continue?

 

So, Owl is now /rant off. I don't feel that any of you out there are evil, or rotten, or amoral. You're people, just like ALL of us here. We all make mistakes, we all do things we shouldn't. But, we have the opportunity to avoid making the same mistakes again. If you choose to get into a situation like this, or choose to continue an affair once the truth is known, that is your decision. The responsibility (and consequences) of a decision like that are yours. Just as they are for the straying spouse.