This is SOOOO hard!

August 30, 2013

I'm not fully familiar with that expression. What is it exactly and how do i deal with it?

Means no matter what the proof the WW wills always deny and make up some story.

August 30, 2013

Means no matter what the proof the WW wills always deny and make up some story.

Yep. Gaslighting is making you think that you don't inow what you know and going a step further to imply that you're the crazy/paranoid one that is tuining the relationship. The ritual is to lie, deny, minimize, and lie some more. She will likely make up some completely nonsensical explanation about what those texts were about (Oh, I was just joking - we always joke like that) and then swiftly change the subject to your "snooping."

You need to anticipate all possible responses from her and decide what your response will be. And I think it should be something more than tripping all over yourself to give her forgiveness that she hasn't asked for.

August 30, 2013

So my final question before I break the bomb:

Given this evidence:

Chat conversation not in particular order:

Her: "My vacation started with my work called me in"
Him: "Do you know the word no?"
Her: "Yes, I did saturday, haha"

---------

Her: "Do you miss me already?"
Him: "I could have scared you away :)"
Her: "It takes more to scare me"
Him: "Ok, let's see"
Her: "But you got to experience all sides of me that evening, haha"

---------

Her: "I know what you did last weekend"
Him: "How much do they know?"
Her: "Nothing. I told you this is a secret between us, that'll never come out"

---------

Her: "Do you want me to come to the next event next weekend?"
Him: "That's not only black and white. Depends if we're going to act as nothing happened"
Her: "This was what I hoped would never happen. I told you that our friendship is more valuable than drunken mistakes should ruin"

------

Is this a 100% sure bomb? Or could there be a rational explaination to this communication?

I of course hold this up against her general behaviour and the way she avoided talking about mononocleosis. I told her one morning that she'd been talking in her sleep, saying "Don't tell anyone!", and she explained it as an everyday episode the day before, where she cried about not feeling sufficient.

Any takers?

I would say that is enough evidence.

August 30, 2013

It is as if she's locked in her situation Living with me gives her safety and stability. Having the other men gives her confirmation. And I suspect, every once in a while she'll vent the steam and get some, all the while I get nothing - not even affection..

No question, she has a problem. But if you're an alcoholic, DON'T BUY BEER to have laying around the house. It's too tempting. If you're vulnerable in love while drunk or together with a certain type of person - DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN THAT SITUATION!

I think, what I want to achieve is for her to realize what she's doing, and to make her decide whether our marriage is truly worth the fight. For the both of us.

Its too easy for her to decide to "work it out" because your the security blanket. You dont give her enough credit because she knows exactly what she is doing with the situation she chose to be in with another man. She is an adult and should be held accountable for her actions like an adult.

August 30, 2013

I would say that is enough evidence.

Yes, it is.

What you need to decide is what you're going to do when she either admits it, denies it, or changes to subject.

Hint: lying, denying, or gaslighting should be dealbreakers for you and you dump her ass until she expresses true remorse.

August 30, 2013

Yes, it is.

What you need to decide is what you're going to do when she either admits it, denies it, or changes to subject.

Hint: lying, denying, or gaslighting should be dealbreakers for you and you dump her ass until she expresses true remorse.

Yep!!!! And the thing you need to remember is that you don't have to convince her, only yourself. What you posted above was clearly an inappropriate relationship.

I would say it like this: "Look, I have seen all I need to see. You can deny it all you want. Your decision is whether we are going to work together to save this marriage."

August 30, 2013

You got to get it out of your head that intercourse is the only form of cheating. A good definition of cheating is doing or SAYING something to someone else that you wouldn't do in front of your significant other. That's cheating.

It's obvious that an inappropriate relationship is happening here. Is it the smoking gun to a physical affair? No. But there are trails of smoke.

August 30, 2013

Yep!!!! And the thing you need to remember is that you don't have to convince her, only yourself. What you posted above was clearly an inappropriate relationship.

I would say it like this: "Look, I have seen all I need to see. You can deny it all you want. Your decision is whether we are going to work together to save this marriage."

He can also say, ".....and I've heard what I've heard." Gives the impression that someone dimed them out to him. That someone Narc'd on her.

The get VAR's and plant one in the house. An area where she would spend a lot of time on the phone. Then, go to the hardware store and get some heavy duty Velcro and secure one under the seat of her car (most cheaters communicate while driving) review the VAR's later. She might call this guy to find out what the hell is going on and to get their stories straight. You might get your smoking gun then.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Chi townD

August 30, 2013

Have you talked to a lawyer, you need to know your rights and you need to protect your children. Get yourself into counseling because regardless of how this turns out you need to fix what's broken in you that allowed you to have an affair. You're worried that exposing her infidelity will be the death blow to your marriage but in reality, it's already over. By confronting her one of two things will happen, she will end her relationship with the Other Man or she will leave the marriage. If she leaves the marriage she would have anyway and all you've done by confronting her is eliminated months or years of additional pain.

Never reveal your sources, tell her you know everything and that you will give her one chance to tell you the truth and if she leaves anything out you will file for divorce immediately, than see what she does. Her reaction will give you the path you need to pursue. If you start the divorce process, it takes time and you can stop the process anytime up to the final decree. There are things much worse than divorce, sharing your wife with other men is one of them. Tell her that she is free to date other men but not as your wife. Take back control, you lead rather than reacting to her, you'll end the pain a lot sooner because you will know the path you have to take. Be strong, take your dignity back, it will make you a lot more attractive to her. If she brings up your infidelity remind her you chose her and the marriage and tell her the steps you are taking to insure her it never happens again(counseling).

August 30, 2013

Victor,

Even though you were unfaithful, you were honest.

She is unfaithful and not honest... at least if she were like damn it was a mistake ill never talk to him again... that would be ok... but she doesn't want it to end.

August 30, 2013

Victor,

Even though you were unfaithful, you were honest.

She is unfaithful and not honest... at least if she were like damn it was a mistake ill never talk to him again... that would be ok... but she doesn't want it to end.

This forum is loaded with golden coins Thx for all the responses and advice.

I so agree on the quote above.

I can actually feel how you've all helped me turn things around a bit. I will share a reaction with you, I just encountered half an hour ago:

Because of the way I act since I have started on this forum (I recon), she actually showed a bit of remorse just before.

I have NOT asked her for a hug in 3 days. I have NOT texted her sweet texts, but only answered her texts - after a few hours. I have behaved responsibly and did the loundry and supper as usual. I have asked about her day, but not offered her massages (as I have been giving her every day for 5 years now), unless she asked.

I mowed the lawn when she came home today. Usually I stop, when she gets in and talk with her about this and that. But not today. I kept mowing.

I sat in the kitchen reading the mail all the while she was in the living room with our daughter.

She was off to work again (it's not just an excuse.. It is work) and for a long time, she hadn't given me a hug. But today - as she got to the door, she stopped, went back and hugged me before wishing me a good evening.

I could see in her face, that she was a bit... anxious, to say the least. Either she suspects something's up or I'm manning a bit up, not being the doormat I used to be.

I'll keep this behaviour up for a while now.

When she got in today, she asked if I was interested in taking a weekend vacation with her in the spring, as she had been googling a great place with decent prices..

Something inside of her is perhaps changing. Perhaps this "affair" was what she needed to realize what she was losing.

Nonetheless, I'm going to confront her soon. I see if the time is good tomorrow.

I'm going to tell her that I really care about our relationship. That I respect that she'd rather that I confront her with my worries in stead of snooping and talking with friends about it.

Then I'll ask her specifically if she has anything, that she would find relevant to reveal for me. In a way, that she knows, that I know something.

I hope she says yes, but if not, I'll ask a bit more specifically: "What happened at the bikers event, that I'm not supposed to know about?"

If she says "nothing", I'll ask her "Why have you been with that guy, you're texting, when you have made your values clear to me, that you wouldn't tolerate that behaviour on my part?"

If she denies, I'll tell her, that "perhaps you need some time to think. I appearently know something, and if you compare this situation to the one we had, when I reluctantly revealed my affair, perhaps now you can see how hard it is. But because I have been in your shoes, I understand how hard it must be for you. But you, of all people, must know how important it is for the real truth to come out."

I'll then give her some time to herself.. Taking our daughter to the zoo or something while she reflects.

Perhaps she gets angry. I'll handle this by saying, "I'm sorry that I found out. It hurts on me, but you shall know, that depending on how you handle this situation, I'll give us the fair chance, you also gave us back then. I'm sure we can work through this, but things demand for more drastic and direct methods than the ones we've been using the past year. If you are willing to commit, so will I."

Perhaps she admits crying. I'll probably just keep asking q's as to get the truth, that will soothe my mind. After this, I'll tell her, that I'll work hard to find forgiveness (of course, if she asks me to), but still I'd expect to see some commitment from her side.

All in all, I'll ask her to stop having inappropiate conversations with other people - and specifically stop all contact with the other guy.

She demanded that she wrote a text to my affair partner - I'll remind her about that, but will not demand the same. I'll tell her though, to do it herself.

I don't need her fling to know that much of the stuff she'd been bragging about she accomplished, is in large part directly due to my efforts. I just need her to know, that when she expects me to communicate with her in stead of confining in other people, I'll expect the same. And that she broke her own rules.

This is not to bring justice, but to make sure that she sees stuff from my eyes as well. And to make her see how far out she has gone, that she perhaps cannot control it herself anymore.

What do you think? Might I succeed?

August 30, 2013

Dude, you are getting WAY ahead of yourself on how you are envisioning the confrontation is going to play out. 9 times out of 10, it never plays out the way you expect it to.

Personally, I would sit her down and ask her, " Do you want to tell me what happened during biker's week?" Chances are she'll say, " What?!?! Nothing! What are you talking about?" Then get up and walk away. If she asks where you're going, just say, " We'll talk again when you feel like you want to start being honest with me." And keep walking.

August 30, 2013

I was going to ask you how much humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure but I now realize the answer is unlimited. The longer this goes on the less respect she will ever have for you and your marriage will be doomed. Once again if you do not respect yourself then who will? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to stop. Do you understand this?

August 30, 2013

This forum is loaded with golden coins Thx for all the responses and advice.

I so agree on the quote above.

I can actually feel how you've all helped me turn things around a bit. I will share a reaction with you, I just encountered half an hour ago:

Because of the way I act since I have started on this forum (I recon), she actually showed a bit of remorse just before.

I have NOT asked her for a hug in 3 days. I have NOT texted her sweet texts, but only answered her texts - after a few hours. I have behaved responsibly and did the loundry and supper as usual. I have asked about her day, but not offered her massages (as I have been giving her every day for 5 years now), unless she asked.

I mowed the lawn when she came home today. Usually I stop, when she gets in and talk with her about this and that. But not today. I kept mowing.

I sat in the kitchen reading the mail all the while she was in the living room with our daughter.

She was off to work again (it's not just an excuse.. It is work) and for a long time, she hadn't given me a hug. But today - as she got to the door, she stopped, went back and hugged me before wishing me a good evening.

I could see in her face, that she was a bit... anxious, to say the least. Either she suspects something's up or I'm manning a bit up, not being the doormat I used to be.

I'll keep this behaviour up for a while now.

When she got in today, she asked if I was interested in taking a weekend vacation with her in the spring, as she had been googling a great place with decent prices..

Something inside of her is perhaps changing. Perhaps this "affair" was what she needed to realize what she was losing.

Nonetheless, I'm going to confront her soon. I see if the time is good tomorrow.

I'm going to tell her that I really care about our relationship. That I respect that she'd rather that I confront her with my worries in stead of snooping and talking with friends about it.

Then I'll ask her specifically if she has anything, that she would find relevant to reveal for me. In a way, that she knows, that I know something.

I hope she says yes, but if not, I'll ask a bit more specifically: "What happened at the bikers event, that I'm not supposed to know about?"

If she says "nothing", I'll ask her "Why have you been with that guy, you're texting, when you have made your values clear to me, that you wouldn't tolerate that behaviour on my part?"

If she denies, I'll tell her, that "perhaps you need some time to think. I appearently know something, and if you compare this situation to the one we had, when I reluctantly revealed my affair, perhaps now you can see how hard it is. But because I have been in your shoes, I understand how hard it must be for you. But you, of all people, must know how important it is for the real truth to come out."

I'll then give her some time to herself.. Taking our daughter to the zoo or something while she reflects.

Perhaps she gets angry. I'll handle this by saying, "I'm sorry that I found out. It hurts on me, but you shall know, that depending on how you handle this situation, I'll give us the fair chance, you also gave us back then. I'm sure we can work through this, but things demand for more drastic and direct methods than the ones we've been using the past year. If you are willing to commit, so will I."

Perhaps she admits crying. I'll probably just keep asking q's as to get the truth, that will soothe my mind. After this, I'll tell her, that I'll work hard to find forgiveness (of course, if she asks me to), but still I'd expect to see some commitment from her side.

All in all, I'll ask her to stop having inappropiate conversations with other people - and specifically stop all contact with the other guy.

She demanded that she wrote a text to my affair partner - I'll remind her about that, but will not demand the same. I'll tell her though, to do it herself.

I don't need her fling to know that much of the stuff she'd been bragging about she accomplished, is in large part directly due to my efforts. I just need her to know, that when she expects me to communicate with her in stead of confining in other people, I'll expect the same. And that she broke her own rules.

This is not to bring justice, but to make sure that she sees stuff from my eyes as well. And to make her see how far out she has gone, that she perhaps cannot control it herself anymore.

What do you think? Might I succeed?

Sorry, but ROTFLMAO! This will not work. The second that something doesn't go according to "your plan" you will be lost. And granted, it will not go according to "your plan". Why are you interested in playing mind games?

Just man up and confront her with the facts as you know them.

August 30, 2013

Maybe I got ahead of myself... Thx for replies... In the meantime I read this article: How to Confront a Cheater: 8 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

Seems legit.

I am also anticipating a situation, which she has brought me in before, as I expressed my concerns regarding her having this text-buddy. She told me, that a boyfriend NEVER had come between her and her friends.

I expect this one to come again.

I'm building this argument. How y'all feel about this?

"I know that your friends are meaningful to you. But how can you put a 1-year based-on-text-messages-and-meeting-during-biker-events-friendship above a 5-year relationship with the father of your daughter and stepfather of your son? In that case, I seriously doubt you have any remorse for what you have put me through recently."

Edited August 30, 2013 by victor_hansen

August 30, 2013

Sorry, but that is weak. I admit that I have never had to try an explain to some how to take control over a conversation, and I don't even know of I can. You have to dictate the discussion. You don't ask questions that you don't know the answer to. You lay it down.

August 30, 2013

He's not her friend and the text messages show that. Your gut told you that this relationship wasn't right and now it's been confirmed.

She's honest and remorseful or she's out the door. Keep it simple because it's not complicated. She's cheated on you and doesn't want to admit it, own it, or make-up for it. The simple consequence of that is that the relationship is over. If that reality doesn't get her to start being accountable for what's happened, no argument is going to make it happen either.

Her behavior is unacceptable and thus, you don't accept it.

August 30, 2013

I feel the urge to demand that I go back on her phone bill and compare which texts she has deleted the past year... Just to get every possible inapropriate text she has written the past year...

It's nagging me, because I once had those texts, but being manipulated into believing that nothing was up, I deleted everything in order to start a fresh...

Would that be too much?

August 30, 2013

^ Waste of time. If she had half a brain she would be communicating by other means besides text.

August 30, 2013

You don't need more evidence to confront her.

If she wants to reconcile with you, she's going to have to be fully transparent and that includes providing honest answers to all of your questions.

August 30, 2013

She might have half a brain but i have my own plus the other half. . I already found that she communicated through her work mail also. . Found lots of evidence that way too. . She never knew.

^ Waste of time. If she had half a brain she would be communicating by other means besides text.

August 31, 2013

This is how it went:

I told her, I wanted to know what secret she kept from me. She denied averything.

I walked away saying, "I hope you come to your senses and tell me when I return".

Presenting more details, but still denied. Presented proof, and the ship turned. She got angry about my snooping around her stuff. She told me it was a deal-breaker for her and we were over.

I told her, that I still didn't had any explaination for her texts, and kept presenting more evidence.

She started explaining half-witted with bad bad excuses about people confining in her and that she had a lot of secrets from a lot of people. And that since she coldn't trust that I wasn't looking through her stuff, she needed to delete them.

Also, the explainations didn't make any sense as to what her texts were.

I also revealed stuff I found months ago that I hadn't told her about yet. About a guy she'd been texting, and she actually had the nerve to provide this explaination:

"Don't you remember that we were on a break at that time?"

WHAT??? We were never on a break! We had time apart, but had agreed on not to see other people. And IF she hade concidered this a break, howcome she texted him only 1 hour after our time apart started?

The whole reason for the time apart was to see if we would find the feelings again, that were blurred away because of all the mess in our relationship...

I feel I lost. I really do. As most of you said, nothing went as I had planned. I didn't imagine that she would KEEP denying, even though I blew big holes in all her explainations.. Wow..

Last thing I said before she went to work this evening was: "I hope you'll reconcider your decision about us breaking up."

Well.. I'm appearently single now. Need to find out how we deal with kids and house..

I think I'll tell her, when she gets home, that I have had a change of heart. That I DO NOT wish her to reconcider us. Perhaps it's best to end it now. Perhaps it was even best to end it 6 months ago when stuff went really wrong at first..

F*ck.. Need support. Feeling lonely...

August 31, 2013

We have all been where you are. My ex never confessed her affair even though she had an affair child with other man, I had a DNA test done, 99.9999999% chance that my son wasn't mine. You have all the information that you need, she is choosing the affair over the marriage and there is no way you can change that by being nice or promising to change yourself. Best thing you can do now is protect your children, yourself and your finances, see a lawyer and start the process. The reality of divorce has been known to change many a wayward spouse's thinking. This is not your fault, by confronting her all you did was get to the end game before she was ready. Stay strong, don't beg or plead to stay in the relationship, you now have the truth, she's gone so treat her that way. You need to be strong right now even if you have to fake it.

August 31, 2013

LS "Breaking Up One Marriage at a Time."

August 31, 2013

We have all been where you are. My ex never confessed her affair even though she had an affair child with other man, I had a DNA test done, 99.9999999% chance that my son wasn't mine. You have all the information that you need, she is choosing the affair over the marriage and there is no way you can change that by being nice or promising to change yourself. Best thing you can do now is protect your children, yourself and your finances, see a lawyer and start the process. The reality of divorce has been known to change many a wayward spouse's thinking. This is not your fault, by confronting her all you did was get to the end game before she was ready. Stay strong, don't beg or plead to stay in the relationship, you now have the truth, she's gone so treat her that way. You need to be strong right now even if you have to fake it.

So you are saying that your WW still to this day has not admitted to an affair when she knows the DNA test shows you are not the bio dad?

Wow.

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