Which one of us is being unreasonable?

[Andrea_Jade]

Hi, we have been married 17 years.

 

We have an alternative marriage in which we have included many boyfriends over the years. It was this way long before we were married (we were together 7 years before we married) and has continued since, it has just been understood that is the way it will be.

 

I have never even so much as kissed another man without my husband present and he himself has joined in on some occasions. We even had a live-in-lover which lasted for about 2 years.

 

So you can see we are committed and perfectly comfortable with the way this all works.

 

My husband came out a month ago and said he wanted to include another woman sometimes. This is unacceptable to me, I am not bisexual, I have no desire to try it, this is not how this started and this was never discussed as a possibility.

 

This has caused a major rift between us. He thinks I am being unreasonable, I think he is.

 

There was no discussion when all this started that it would all be equal.

 

The way I see it is that we wanted the other men and we went out and explored that and liked it and continued.

 

In this circumstance, I do not want other women, I should not be forced, coerced, whatever word you prefer, into doing something that I don’t want. I never forced him, in fact it was him who led the way finding other men.

 

He has now said that if I wont include women then there will be no more men. That is not fair, our relationship since before we were married has been built around this being a part of us, part of our lives.

 

I know at first thought you will think well if I can, why can’t he or if he can’t then neither should I but that is too simplistic. The whole including other men was his idea, and yes I wanted it too but it was his idea, he wanted it! This whole including other woman I do not want!

 

I know how I feel about this but I do see his points (I just don’t agree with them).

 

Am I being unreasonable? And if I am surely you can’t suggest that I should try including another woman against my wishes just to satisfy him?

 

I am not looking for a debate on the pros and cons of alternative lifestyles, I know it has its detractors. This is about fairness and not forcing someone into doing something they don’t want to satisfy others.

 

I would really appreciate any feedback regarding this issue specifically. If we could steer away from any generalized comment on the lifestyle as a whole that would be great.

[todreaminblue]

you can t really steer away from the lifestyle its the way you live......its the way you want to live which is yours and your husbands choice.......

 

but this from you

 

 

There was no discussion when all this started that it would all be equal.

 

 

situations change over time, needs change and a mistake was not to set boundaries in your words it was never discussed.......

 

 

it is also a mistake to have an unequal relationship alternative or not and what happens is one person usually the one who has less tries to even it out.......by asking for more give......

 

he has given now you dont want to give......i dont know what the compromise would be, relationships become messy when too many people become involved in them.....its hard enough to keep a relationship progressive with two...you

 

are not progressing...you are at a stale mate and you refuse to budge....what do you feel is going to come of this...how do you feel he will feel eventually if he gives in to your request.......what do you feel a solution for the both of you might be? the only people that can solve this problem for you....are you and your husband communicating effectively and the give and take thing...has to be equal.....if it isnt......relationships like that dont last...or...worse......that person who is on the giving side stays and is very very unhappy......and taken for granted that is my opinion...that istn fair or right..how do you feel?

 

deb

[Andrea_Jade]

Just to be clear when I said there was no discussion, it was just that there was no discussion about it being equal, about also including a woman one day, a woman was never discussed.

 

We did discuss just about everything. How far we would go, what we would do in certain circumstances, even down to whether i could take phone calls from them when alone. And it did develop and change over time but we were always in total agreement.

 

He now wants to change this to include women but I don't want to. To me if we can't agree it means no change.

 

 

how do you feel?

 

I feel that he should respect my wishes that I do not want to be with another woman.

 

I should respect his wishes that he no longer wants to include other men... but I feel that he is just being petty and vindictive by saying that because we have had this style relationship for over 20 years.

 

He is basically blackmailing me. Telling me that I must be with another woman or all previous agreements are off the table. I don't see that as being fair.

[Cococbel]

Has something changed? Why does he feel differently now, all of the sudden?

[Mint Sauce]

is it just another woman, or does he have someone specific in mind?

 

Phrased differently: is he falling for another woman and hoping to end up with a proper menage-a-trois?

[Andrea_Jade]

Has something changed? Why does he feel differently now, all of the sudden?

 

He has no real reason other than "why not give it a go".

 

is it just another woman, or does he have someone specific in mind?

 

Phrased differently: is he falling for another woman and hoping to end up with a proper menage-a-trois?

 

He has no other woman in mind, in fact he wants me to choose the woman. He wants to see what type of woman I am attracted to. The answer is simple... none.

 

I think this is more of a control thing rather than him really waiting other women. I think he would be really chuffed if he could convince me to be with another woman.

[dichotomy]

While I don't personally understand this lifestyle - I suppose I can agree philosophically with two points here.

 

1) You should not be forced to participate in sex (another woman) that you find hurtful or painful (emotional/physical/spiritual). However, I am not sure why - do you mean you object to a threesome, or him participating in front of you with another woman, but this is a minor point, you should not be forced to engage in sex you find painful or hurtful to you

 

2) He should not be forced to participate in sex (another man) that he now finds hurtful or painful (emotional/physical/spiritual). Is he bisexual? However, in his case you might say this is merely an attempt to punish you by taking away your boy toys because you will not let him have girl toys. However, he might legitimately be hurt by the unequalness now (sexual needs and feelings change).

 

 

While this is a bit usual - this board has many stories of one or more partners and spouses changing their sexual preferences for certain sexual acts, wanting to try or even stop doing some sexual acts. It does cause hurt in the marriage, I am sorry for this. I guess I would really like to hear more details on your feelings of why you object to another woman - yes I know its your preference - but could you explain more? Is it you don't want to touch a woman or jealousy if he has one alone? Also would you end the marriage if you could no longer have your boy toys? That is could you (or him) be happy enough with just each other?

Edited August 27, 2013 by dichotomy

[Ninjainpajamas]

Did you ever have the specific conversation or discussion that you would NOT ever at any point in time involve women in your marriage and just men?

 

Can he still pursue women on his own independently or does that violate house rules?

[Andrea_Jade]

Did you ever have the specific conversation or discussion that you would NOT ever at any point in time involve women in your marriage and just men?

 

How can you have a conversation about a negative?

 

That would be like asking if we discussed not ever involving aliens or sheep or insert whatever you want here.

 

We were together. he approached me and said he was curious about other men, didn't want to do it alone and it evolved from there.

 

Very early on he realized that he became super aroused watching me with other men and it developed further.

 

He is only orally bisexual so often he would just watch and so a little domination angle came about and it developed from there.

 

I could keep going but at every point we discussed and we agreed, when we didn't agree we didn't do it.

 

For example he wanted to see other men have anal sex with me but I said no, I reserve that just for him. No agreement so we have never done it. I wanted to have multiple men (a small orgy) and he said no, only one other at a time, so it was dropped and never discussed again.

 

He now wants women and it is fine that it was bought up but there is no agreement so that should be the end of it. I don't think that is unreasonable.

[Andrea_Jade]

I guess I would really like to hear more details on your feelings of why you object to another woman - yes I know its your preference - but could you explain more? Is it you don't want to touch a woman or jealousy if he has one alone?

 

We have always agreed that whatever we do we do as a couple so having anyone alone is out of the question. He is not asking for that either.

 

I would be semi willing to at least discuss it further if it was another woman where her and I just please my husband but do nothing with each other. I am not saying I would say yes but I would discuss it.

 

But that is not what he wants, he wants to see me with another woman and he wants me to choose that woman. If I don't agree than all agreements regarding other men are over, that is blackmail is it not?

 

Also would you end the marriage if you could no longer have your boy toys? That is could you (or him) be happy enough with just each other?

 

No, I am in love with him, I will stand by him whatever may come. But that doesn't mean i wont try to sway his decision

 

I was 21 when we met, we had our first threesome with his best mate a few months after that, that was 24 years ago. In some form or another for all of that time we have had a boyfriend, whether it be casual, permanent or even living with us. To cut that off in one fell swoop is harsh and vindictive just because he wont get his own way. At least that is how I feel.

 

I was happy to reassess my views if the overwhelming opinion was that I was wrong but that appears not to be the case.

[Silly_Girl]

 

I feel that he should respect my wishes that I do not want to be with another woman.

 

I should respect his wishes that he no longer wants to include other men.

 

That's pretty much it!

[dichotomy]

If he is forcing you to engage in sex with another woman - and that is unacceptable (i can imagine why) then I agree its no. If you are not bisexual you are not bisexual! He should respect this. However, it is a little grey area (as you seem to agree) if it is you and another woman just pleasuring him, or you watching him with another woman.

 

Honestly, since he is bisexual (and you are not), I suspect if you took him up on his offer to stop bring men into your marriage, he would loose out as well as you on a part of sexual enjoyment in your half open marriage? Maybe not though - if he is feeling hurt right now? That said, perhaps a little break from all these other people in your marriage would help you both. Thats what I would suggest - a cleansing time for a while - just the two of you for a few months or a year - and reassess later.

 

I am just guessing here - this kind of situation is outside my expertise.

Edited August 27, 2013 by dichotomy

[smoky eyes]

I personally think you could offer him a bit of negotiation on this. Let him know what you've said you're prepared to discuss... you may even find you like it and they may open you up to experiences more along the line of what he has in mind. If not, if you've given him part of what he wants but really don't want to go farther than that, he can't reproach you with anything.

 

I don't think you have to be bisexual to enjoy sex with a woman (or sex with your husband in which a woman is present). Can't you extract some pleasure from the excitement he will feel? Or maybe he won't even be that into it himself...

 

On the other hand, I take your point that he shouldn't be blackmailing you with taking away the male lovers. And if you do give any ground, I'd drive home the point that that isn't why you're relenting.

[pteromom]

He said no to a small orgy of men because he was uncomfortable with that. You feel the same way about being with a woman. So he should respect your boundaries.

 

I think he is being unreasonable here.

 

Whether he was able to sleep with other women would be a more equal comparison to make. But he can't dictate who YOU sleep with.

 

I think your compromise of you and another woman pleasuring him together without you and the woman touching each other is more than fair.

[Mr. Lucky]

Could it be that he's no longer comfortable with the boyfriends and is therefore proposing something he knows you won't agree to as way of avoiding the backlash? It doesn't sound like his direct expression of unwillingness would be well received...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Keenly]

The only thing unreasonable that I see, is that he was okay with doing what it took for you to enjoy all the men you and sometimes both of you hooked up, but you won't even consider allowing this thing that makes him happy.

 

 

Its not so much what's happening that would bother me personally, its only your reaction to your husband expressing a desire he has its a simple , hard and fast, " no, never"

[Andrea_Jade]

We did speak last night and while I found out more about why he has all of a sudden had this urge for us to be with other women.

 

Apparently two of his workmates have recently been having threesomes (with another female) with their wives. They have been speaking about it at work and saying how great, wonderful etc etc etc is was. He now wants to see for himself.

 

When he was describing what these other couples did it was obviously turning him on, he got an erection (I took care of that ). So I don't think there is any sinister plan behind this, it's just something he wants to try.

 

I proposed that he could have another woman but I don't want to interact with her. He is totally not interested in that. His words were "what would be the point".

 

After seeing how turned on he was I caved in, I don't know why I did, but I did. I had this overwhelming feeling that he would enjoy it so much that it would be more than worthwhile. So I said I would do it but I couldn't promise anything and if I call it off half way through he has no right to be angry with me. I thought that was a more than fair compromise.

 

He is still not happy with that ! He wants a promise that we will do it 5 times. He says doing it once you don't get a true indication of how you feel about it. Nerves, wrong atmosphere, wrong person, etc all play a part. You need more time to make an educated decision.

 

Now to be fair I do agree with that, and it stems from the agreement we had way back when we started when I agreed to 5 times with his best mate before saying yes or no. We have also used this '5 times' rules a number of times over the years.

 

Now I don't know what to do. I told him I would think about it but as I do I just feel that I have compromised more than enough. I can't see any compromise from him.

 

Friends I have spoken to told me I am being a fool and once I try it I will like it. I don't know whether that is true or not but I don't think that is the point anyway. I am basically being coerced into multiple threesomes with another woman with the threat of losing a long standing agreement of allowing other men if I don't comply. He is very adamant, I don't see a way around this using reason.

[bubbaganoosh]

Andrea

 

This is just a suggestion and before I say it I also think that if your not Bi, then you shouldn't be forced in to situation like that. As far as the suggestion, why not another couple? A man for you and a woman for him?

 

Would you feel comfortable with that? Sometimes there has to be a little give and take in a relationship. Talk to him about that and see how he feels. Good luck.

[oldshirt]

OK first the buzzkill. Men will line up down the street and around the clock to bang a married woman with or without her husband's approval. In fact it's often easier for a married woman to get recreational sex than single women because some men are going to be afraid a single woman will want a relationship.

 

The opposite in not true however and if the guy isn't a rock star/movie star/male model/ super rich etc very few women are going to want to be the 3rd wheel. For people who do have threesomes with other women it is almost always brokered by the female half of the couple who is at least somewhat bi-curious at minimum and has a vested stake in wanting some girl-love herself.

 

So in other words, it's not like you are just going to agree to do this on a Thurs night and bring your first girlfriend home on Friday. I've known very active swingers who tried for literally years to bring home another woman without luck.

 

With you not really having your heart in it and feeling forced into it, this whole thing is going to be a big bust before it even gets off the ground.

 

More later....

[smoky eyes]

I think doing it because it turns him on would be a nice thing to do, and I think that you may well like it (or like it well enough) but I think him insisting on 5 times in the face of how uncomfortable this is making you is ridiculous! The fact that you've previously used this as a guideline makes it somewhat understandable but definitely don't get backed into a hole on this. He's bisexual, you aren't, you're doing a favour by agreeing to this in the first place.

 

I could see saying "Ok, I commit to, if it goes down badly the first time considering trying again with someone else," but committing to five and then realizing you absolutely loathe it is simply not realistic.

[Turtles]

The problem is that you still want the other men without him having the other women.

 

People change in time. He wants to have this experience and see what it's like. You want to keep it up with other men.

 

Not so - she has already stated she would be fine with him having sex with another woman in front of her... AND that she would give up the other men if that was his wish (which is not likely since he is bi)... the problem is he wants HER to have sex with another woman. And since she is straight I can see why she would not go for that!

[Betterthanthis13]

Another way to look at it is to stop thinking about it as a male/female thing. The both of you have been having sex with other people that that you both agree on. Correct me if im wrong, but I would assume that the people you have been with as a couple were attractive to both of you. Now he wants you to have sex with a person that he is attracted to and you are not. That sounds terrible to me. In that case he is being unfair.

 

Unless the mutual attraction thing is not the case and your rule for the last 20 years has been that if only one of you is attracted and the other one is repulsed by the potential 3rd party you will still both have sex with the other person. If that is true then you are being unfair.

[Betterthanthis13]

I also am pretty sure that if the roles were reversed here-

 

For 20 years you were bisexual and your husband was not, and had been having 3somes with women only this whole time, and then you told him you were cutting off the women unless he had sex with a man... I think you would be getting a much stronger reaction from people saying that you are being totally and completely unreasonable (in my imaginary scenario)

 

I think it is extremely unreasonable to expect someone to change their sexual identity...

[Andrea_Jade]

Thanks for all the replies and support. It is nice to know that I wasn't being unreasonable in declining his wish.

 

It's not a case of saying 'told you so, I was right', but I needed to know that I wasn't just being and old cranky cow.

 

He really wants this and I know once fantasies are in your head they are hard not to want to act out. I also know that things don't always work our as planned, he is still too enamored with this fantasy to see this yet.

 

I do want him to be happy and if he really wants this I would like to help him live it but it is a big decision for me.

 

We will continue to talk about this and we will eventually come to some sort of agreement. I have watched some videos with him of women together and I must admit it does look very sensual, I would even go as far as saying that it was a bit of a turn on. I am still a fair way off saying that I want to try it myself though.

[Andrea_Jade]

Well we have reached agreement on this. I've agreed to do it twice and I will show him what I find attractive in a woman (that pretty easy really, just get me Angelina Jolie). He is going to find the woman and it will happen one night as a surprise so I can't get all nervous and back out. That is of course after we no doubt talk a fair bit over the phone first.

 

To be honest, and quite to my surprise, now that I've made this decision I actually have a tingle thinking about the where, when and how. I hope this works out well, especially for him, he really has his heart set on this and he has been so wonderful with what he has allowed me to do over the years that in the end I really couldn't say no.