orderandcalm Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Lurker and New poster here. Warning: long post. I've been married for 20 years, and my dilemma concerns diminishing sexual attraction. I know a certain amount of this is completely normal over time. No one is going to feel exactly as attracted to their partner 20 years later, and other positive qualities in the relationship "fill in" where the initial attraction leaves off, in terms of two people continuing to connect sexually. My husband is 5 years younger than me; currently I'm 50 and he's 45. We have a great relationship as friends and partners in life. I like, love, and respect him. I am about 15 pounds heavier than when we were married (not a problem for him) and he is about 70 pounds heavier (a problem for me). Sex has always been satisfying for both of us; he is very attentive to my needs and is not selfish in that regard; he has never had any complaints except for frequency in the last 10 or so years. I have a long background in fitness, and have always appreciated a reasonably fit body on both myself and on the person I'm with. When we got together, he was very extremely fit because of the job he was doing. Both our genetics are woeful, but at that time he was defying them, and continued to for about 8 or so years into our relationship. At that point he started doing less physical labor, kept his current eating habits, and naturally started to put on weight. I continued to be as attracted to him as I always was until he put on in excess of 30 or so pounds; this was a very slow process. By the time I was 45, and my estrogen was starting to naturally wane, I felt a decrease in my sex drive which I attributed to aging. Of course, I was also conscious of the fact that I was less attracted to my husband because of the change in his physical appearance -- he was slowly getting larger and less fit by the year -- but it was uncomfortable for me to think about for very long, so I lumped the two together in my mind, blamed aging when it came up for discussion, and tried desperately not to think about it. We were having sex less than he would have liked, but at least once, and often twice a week, always at his initiation; I have not initiated sex in at least five years. About three years ago, he started to say things like "I don't think you're into me any more." I'm not sure how, but I managed to deflect the question for about a year until I had a heart-to-heart with him. I told him, being conscious of being as kind as I could, that I had in fact been less attracted to him as he had put on weight -- and it didn't help the fact that he would often favorably compare himself to his similar-age work associates who were much heavier than him, concluding that he must be "...just fine.". I couldn't take the pressure of keeping it in, so I had to tell him, and I felt it was the right thing to do to be honest at that point, knowing that it would be a bitter pill; but also that it might be a chance for me to tell him that we were not on the same page as far as "getting older" together, and that my honesty might be a catalyst for positive change in terms of lifestyle. He did not take it well. He was defensive, told me that I didn't look exactly like I did 20 years ago, either; and he told me that if I was expecting to have his 20-year-old self back again, I would be sorely disappointed. Of course, this reaction was somewhat predictable, but not very constructive. I felt horribly guilty, since not only has he been patient with my weight gain and loss over two pregnancies, his attraction to me never seemed to diminish. I've always made it practically a part-time job to be fit, even when my kids were young; and despite periodic lapses in consistency, for by far most of our 20 years together I've made it a priority to stay very active and not eat the way I would really like to. Since we had that discussion two years ago, he has told me that he personally does not like being this heavy and that he intends to "get in shape" this fall after his busy season. That was gratifying to hear, but the food changes that would be required are so significant, I'm not counting on anything changing. If it happens, great, but I know better than to count heavily on someone else making a huge life change like that. I'd prefer to be surprised if it actually happens rather than disappointed if it does not. So here we are, 20 years later. I have done everything I can to "restart" my sex drive. I started bioidentical hormone replacement three years ago to stop my hot flashes and I added internal estradiol to keep the tissues healthy; neither of which did anything for my sex drive. Two months ago I added maca root and lo and behold, I've felt a quasi-return of my sex drive. I never thought that would be possible, but here it is. Last night I dreamed about being in a situation where I couldn't wait to rip a guy's clothes off -- kind of surprising upon awakeneing, because I haven't felt that way in over 10 years. In the most desperate way, I would love if this newfound change in how I'm feeling would translate to wanting to rip my husband's clothes off. But it doesn't, at least right now; and probably will not unless I get a different visual image when I see him. I feel terribly guilty because I go out of my way to NOT to see him naked. This makes me feel like the worst person, and partner, to walk the planet. I think to myself, who does that when they love someone? Shouldn't love and 20 years together trump eyes? Shouldn't the fact that I love and respect him, and the fact that he's my best friend, make me love his body? But I don't, at least in the way that determines if I want to jump on him. This doesn't mean that we won't have sex -- we will; and as always, it will be satisfying for us both. But the edge is off -- has been off for years -- and now that I've discovered that my sex drive seems to be there still, the edge being gone really saddens me. So here I am, with my quandry. What do I *do* with this feeling that I would love to feel the desire to jump him, but I simply don't? Where do I put that? I've come to terms with so many things in my life: my not-close relationship with my mother, my intense love of my children but not really liking mothering, my choice not to pursue a career in favor of having time for a wide variety of life experiences. I recognize that I'm very fortunate (after the terrible sex in my first marriage) to have experienced a gratifying sex life, ever, when so many people never do. But where do I put this one? Do I philosophically tell myself to be grateful that I ever had it at all, that I am lucky I got to experience it when I was younger, and that the time to experience that feeling is now over? One of my spiritual lessons is to feel okay with being uncomfortable in my head, knowing that change (including how I'm feeling and thinking) is inevitable. But perhaps I'm missing something else important here...? Can anyone relate?
Mr. Lucky Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I am about 15 pounds heavier than when we were married (not a problem for him) It's all a matter of perspective. I know guys that are very into fitness, have maintained their college weight well into their 40's and would think you, at 15 lbs heavier, have a weight problem. How'd you like to be subject to the same analysis and dressing down your husband received, regardless of "being conscious of being as kind as (one) could"? I'd guess you'd get defensive also. We're all going to get older, wrinkled, infirm and in most cases heavier. My wife, in her late 50's, is a good 50 lbs heavier than when we married. Were it up to me, she'd be thinner. But it's not and she's not. So I simply choose to love her for her myriad other wonderful qualities and beautiful features. At some point it becomes about the person she is, not the body she inhabits. It sounds like you have a similarly good man, hope you come to terms with rest of it... Mr. Lucky 2
Author orderandcalm Posted August 26, 2013 Author Posted August 26, 2013 Mr. Lucky, I thank you for your perspective. I do want to point out that the "dressing down" was at my husband's persistent request. As I mentioned, I put off responding to his statement/question "I don't think you're into me any more." for over a year. I would have never said anything unsolicited about my lack of attraction towards him because of his weight. I also think one can surmise, from my original post, that I do in fact love my husband for the totality of who he is, which has zero to do with the body he inhabits. My post/question was not about love; rather, it was about grieving the loss of physical attraction, which had figured prominently in our relationship years ago. 2
janedoe67 Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Fifteen pounds over 20 years vs 70 pounds over 20 years. I am not a weight-oriented person and even I can understand that one is quite different from the other. People have different needs. My husband weighs probably 50 pounds more than when we married. It doesn't really affect me one way or another because that is not one of my needs. However, other things ARE important to me. For you, having a healthy and attractive spouse is tied to your attraction. I don;t see why that is wrong - lots of people are the same way. In MY mind, if HE wants you to be more into him, and you gave him the key to that, then he needs to work on doing it. It doesn't sound like you want him to be 20, just healthy. And unless he was a waif when you married him, 70 pounds heavier is likely not healthier. "Take me as I am" is a very nice thought, but in a lot of ways it can be used as a laziness cover-up. 1
oldshirt Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Your feelings and reactions are valid. Obesity is a turnoff. It's unhealthy and we all have deep instinctive hardwiring that makes sexual arousal with a morbidly obese person darn near impossible. Obesity is a pathological condition and while obese people are just as deserving of love and compassion and respect as the next person, a pathological state pretty much kills any physical attraction and desire. Sorry folks, that's just the way it is. We can blow sunshine up people's butts and tell them it's ok to gain 70 lbs and that it's what's on the inside that counts, but when that inside has fat hanging out over everything it kills the sexual attraction. There are a few guys that are sincerely attracted to obese women. There is not a living breathing woman that can say the same about men. If your husband wants to have your attraction and desire and wants you to want him sexually it is his responsibility to take charge of his health and vitality and start losing the flab. It is not your responsibility to try to change your basic, instinctive sexual hardwiring, that just simply can not be done. 1
oldshirt Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 This is a very serious issue. The fact that you are getting a little mojo back means that you are going to start noticing other men noticing you. There is a big discrepancy in your levels of attractiveness and it's just a matter of time before some younger, buffer guy starts hitting on you right in front of him... .... and even though you will be required to deny it, way deep down you will be very tempted to take him up on it. Again, it's just the way we are hardwired. There is an entire book devoted to the subject of men letting themselves go and their wives losing attraction and desire for them and you two are a textbook example of it. The good news is it can be turned around and your desire and your relationship can be salvaged but it will reguire him putting down the Ho-Hos and busting his gut in the gym. The book is called, "The Married Man Sexlife Primer" written by Athol Kay. it is available on Amazon. The bad news is he is going to need a real wake-up call to realize the seriousness of it. It will either take him living a life of nonconsensual celibacy for 6 months-year, you packing up and leaving, or you having an affair with a younger, fitter man before he sees the light and takes affirmative action. For his sake and your's, I hope you can find a way to express the seriousness of this situation and get him to realize how serious you are and realize what he needs to do to earn back your desire and attraction.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Love MAY be blind, but sexual attraction isn't (for most people, anyway). Why should YOU feel guilty when he thinks it's perfectly fine to completely let himself go and doesn't feel a need at all to stay attractive for you? If anything, YOU should slighted that he doesn't care enough to make the effort. "Take me as I am" is a very nice thought, but in a lot of ways it can be used as a laziness cover-up. We can blow sunshine up people's butts and tell them it's ok to gain 70 lbs and that it's what's on the inside that counts, but when that inside has fat hanging out over everything it kills the sexual attraction. The truth is, based on the fact that this has been an issue for 20 years, she's probably not going to be able to change him. She can make all the healthy meals and suggest all the walks she wants, but the desired shift needed to drop some of 70 pounds isn't hers to make. And yet, she loves him and wants a reasonably satisfying sex life as part of that relationship. Given those facts, the reality is that the adjustment in focus, perspective, acceptance and approach is going to have to come from the OP. She's going to have to find reasons to love and desire him based on other than his weight... Mr. Lucky 1
AlwaysGrowing Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 I imagine his lack of desire to be attractive to you...is well...another turn off. Only you can answer if this is something that you can live with. Often times, people get complacent with themselves and their marriage. It takes ongoing, life long work. Some get a wake up call, others like to live with their heads in the sand. There will reach a point that you either accept this or you don't.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 Why is it such a crime to want a partner in good physical condition, or at least not obese? He gained the weight after the fact. That's pretty unfair. No crime at all. Yes, he did gain it after the fact. Yes, it is unfair. If this was one of those reality shows with a marriage referee, he would be flagged for...well, insert your own punchline here. Now that we've all agreed he's wrong, how does that help her ??? This is part of a bigger issue - what happens when someone we love, someone close to us that we care about, engages in a behavior we don't approve of? We can object, which it seems the OP has done for a couple of decades. We can leave, which, given the other positive aspects of her marriage, she doesn't want to do. We can resent, not a beneficial approach if the OP prioritizes her own happiness. Or we can adjust, which in this case involves finding qualities other than his weight that make her husband attractive to her. There are some conscious choices involved... Mr. Lucky 1
genesis.elle Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 I completely understand and share the feelings of having your sexual attraction for a partner diminish due to weight gain. I'm not the thinnest of women myself, but I was large when my husband and I met, and I'm actually a bit smaller now, and will probably always carry a few extra pounds. While my husband has professed a love of my extra weight (this is maybe 20-30lb overweight at most and I'm a tall girl so it's mostly hips and thighs and boobs) and thinks it's sexy, I certainly don't share his feelings. Not only do I not think that fat is sexy on women, in copious amounts, I certainly do not feel that fat is sexy on a man. I don't have unrealistic expectations such as thinking all men need to looks like bodybuilders but my personal preference is maybe 10-20lb overweight maximum. I don't enjoy a saggy belly during sex or a man who cannot support his own bodyweight while we're horizontal. My husband gained a few pounds and then agreed to start eating healthier but he still refuses to work out. I thought a bit of reverse psychology would work if I could convince him that it was a masculine thing to lift weights or do cardio but that didn't fly. He's gotten a bit doughy over the years and frankly, it's a turn off to me. I sound like a HUGE hypocrite since I'm heavy and somehow think I can pass judgement on my overweight husband but not lose the pounds myself, but that's just the way I am and he has known that from the start. If I suddenly shaved my head, he would probably lose some attraction to me because of that. If I didn't want to grow my hair back in that would probably prove troublesome over time for him. In the end, all you can do is gently guide him in the right direction, provided he's willing to go there. Cooking healthy, portion controlled meals and encouraging him to get active with you may work, and if it doesn't, depending on how open you two are with each other, you may want to try more of a pointed approach in telling him that you love him and nothing will change that but you miss the passionate sex life you used to have and you feel like his weight gain has really hindered that. Provide solutions to the problem, don't just say "you're fat and I don't like that". Tell him you want to spend time with him being active -- and really, this isn't just about looks, being obese KILLS. He can pick up a myriad of diseases and disorders from hauling that extra weight around, so be sure in to include that in your plea to him.
Author orderandcalm Posted August 27, 2013 Author Posted August 27, 2013 A friend with whom I've discussed this issue multiple times had the following to say: "You have somebody to get old with. You have affection and somebody who finds you sexy and beautiful. You have somebody to count on if you are overwhelmed by a situation. You have somebody who will be honest and true to you. I would be snuggling up to him if I were you. Like that one blogger wrote, you can help him lose weight. It would be an act of love to offer your partnership and assistance in this endeavor. You can make sure that he knows that it is not because his weight is a sexual turn-off but because you want to insure his longevity. That’s what I think. You are so lucky to still love your husband after 20 years." My intent before originally posting was to find out if I had any blind spots with this issue, since I'm so close to it. What I didn't recognize until reading all your responses was the fact that I've been grieving -- hard -- the loss of the attraction I used to have for my husband, and the loss of that kind of passion in my life in general. In my avoidance of thinking about it, I delayed the grieving, and thus my getting on with some kind of plan. It's hard enough maintaining my own program to stay healthy and fit and attractive; I'm not sure how I'll do trying to assist someone with whom I live, without conflict. But try I must. Thanks again, to all of you who shared your experience and advice.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 Hope it goes well for you - and him! Since your issue is one that gets posted frequently here, if you will let us know how what progress you make. Others, me included, would be interested... Mr. Lucky
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 A friend with whom I've discussed this issue multiple times had the following to say: "You have somebody to get old with. You have affection and somebody who finds you sexy and beautiful. You have somebody to count on if you are overwhelmed by a situation. You have somebody who will be honest and true to you. I would be snuggling up to him if I were you. Like that one blogger wrote, you can help him lose weight. It would be an act of love to offer your partnership and assistance in this endeavor. You can make sure that he knows that it is not because his weight is a sexual turn-off but because you want to insure his longevity. That’s what I think. You are so lucky to still love your husband after 20 years." My intent before originally posting was to find out if I had any blind spots with this issue, since I'm so close to it. What I didn't recognize until reading all your responses was the fact that I've been grieving -- hard -- the loss of the attraction I used to have for my husband, and the loss of that kind of passion in my life in general. In my avoidance of thinking about it, I delayed the grieving, and thus my getting on with some kind of plan. It's hard enough maintaining my own program to stay healthy and fit and attractive; I'm not sure how I'll do trying to assist someone with whom I live, without conflict. But try I must. Thanks again, to all of you who shared your experience and advice. Oprah and his grandmother would be so proud of you. They'd be so proud of you for cuddling up to man you feel no desire for and telling him that you love and cherish him and will grow old with him but all the while you want to cringe and pull away when he touches you. You turn your head and give a quick smack and pull away when he tries to kiss you with passion and intimacy. You lean in around his gut and give him a quick, "Break-off" pat on the back when he tries to hug and embrace you. You tell him all is ok and you try to go through the motions of loving him all the while you are repulsed by his touch and his advances and while deep down he instinctively knows something is wrong, he is still consciously unaware of your dissatisfaction. He only knows that he is frustrated and insecure because you no longer have the attraction and desire for him but yet you try to put on a façade that all is ok. Your façade with him is that all is ok but yet you recoil at his touch while at the same time you check out, fantasize about and desire, fitter, better looking women. In time that temptation will wear you down and you will cross over into infidelity. Yes you are doing him a lot of favors by pretending to be satisfied and happy with him. ... OK sarcasm is over but I hope I've made the point. The point is you are doing neither him nor yourself any favors by pretending to be ok with this and pretending to have feelings for him that are false. IMHO you are using him for your own comfort and your own security while you do not sincerely desire him. You don't desire him and you do not give yourself to him fully and therefor he is left wanting. Yes you may put out and do your duty once a month but duty sex often leaves both of you more frustrated and dissatisfied than none at all. You are cheating both of you by trying to fake your way through this issue rather than addressing it.
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 Perhaps my sarcasm and condescending tone in my last post is more counterproductive that useful so let me leave the attitude at the door and be a little more sincere. My point is while you may think you are stepping up to the plate and doing the right thing by accepting your husband's obesity and you may think that trying to continue to love him and continue to show him warmth and affection is the higher calling, you are in fact doing both of you a disservice in the long run. I know it is what society wants you to do and I know that your own yearning for comfort and long term security tell you to overlook the blubber and continue to try to keep loving him. But the fact remains that your body and soul are repulsed by the fat and you will react to that even if you try not to. You may think that he won't notice or that he won't be hurt by it but he will. It is extremely painful for men to not be desired by their wives. I don't mean only painful if their wives only deny sex and they live in involuntary celibacy, but I mean it is very painful for them to not be truly and sincerely desired by their wives even if the wife grits her teeth and lays back and allows him to masturbate with her body while she watches the minutes tick by on the clock. Men know that things aren't right and know that their wives aren't responding to them as the used to but so many men are not emotionally perceptive enough to put their finger on what is truly at hand. This confusion is compounded by the women telling them that they love them and seemingly going through the motions of physical affections and such. There is confusion and mixed messages all over the place but the pain is still very much there. Just take a moment and read some of the other threads of men bemoaning the loss of intimacy and passion in their marriages. The thing is it CAN be fixed. Men CAN and will step up to the plate if they can be made to understand what is actually happening. If men can be made to hear you and can understand that a healthy, fit body and some good grooming and styling and some more masculine assertion CAN revive his wife's passions, many me will crawl through broken glass and rusty thumbtacks to do it. What is so disheartening about your statements of continuing to go through the motions is all that will do is prolong and probably even worsen both of your suffering. You can't fake it till you make it with this. Your repulsion will only get worse and his longing for your sincere passion and intimacy will only deepen if you try to sweep this under the rug. Yes it will impinge his feelings a bit to be told that you do not desire him sexually in his current state. but it will hurt him a lot less than the rest of his life time with no true intimacy and passion with his wife. And it will hurt infinitely less than infidelity when you finally can't take it anymore and step out on your marriage to get your sexual and intimacy/passion needs met.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 Yes it will impinge his feelings a bit to be told that you do not desire him sexually in his current state. but it will hurt him a lot less than the rest of his life time with no true intimacy and passion with his wife. And it will hurt infinitely less than infidelity when you finally can't take it anymore and step out on your marriage to get your sexual and intimacy/passion needs met. Interesting how you take one issue and grow it into an entire bouquet of character flaws. She's going to cheat, lie and be unfaithful to her spouse because she's unhappy with his weight? You might, don't think she would... Mr. Lucky
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 Interesting how you take one issue and grow it into an entire bouquet of character flaws. She's going to cheat, lie and be unfaithful to her spouse because she's unhappy with his weight? You might, don't think she would... Mr. Lucky Don't think she wouldn't. Desire and attraction and chemistry etc etc etc are very powerful and primal forces. I assume that she is a very good and decent person and I realize that she probably has no intention of going out and cheating at this particular moment in time. However her needs for sexual intimacy and passion etc are just as strong and present as anyone else's and she is stuck with a man for whom she feels no desire. She can go for years thinking that this is OK and that she can live with it and accept it etc.... .....until that one day that (fill in the name here) comes along and ignites her desire. That is how cheating and ONS's and office romances and flings at the gym and affairs etc start. There really is not two different classifications of people that are divided into the Cheaters and the Noncheater camps. Everyone has the potential to cheat, it's just a matter of when all the right conditions meet the right opportunity. The conditions are ripe for her find someone outside the marriage. She just hasn't had an opportunity that catches her eye enough to tip her over the edge yet.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 There really is not two different classifications of people that are divided into the Cheaters and the Noncheater camps. I agree that temptation is all around us. But there's a large group of married folk that wouldn't cheat regardless of the circumstances. Just as there's a smaller subset that will cheat regardless of the circumstances. They're not the same "camp"... Mr. Lucky
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 But there's a large group of married folk that wouldn't cheat regardless of the circumstances. And I have a great deal on a bridge and some swamp land for you That's a big negative. And it's also a very dangerous thought process to have. Believing that someone would never cheat is one of the factors that leads to complacency and a head in the sand outlook. The truth is ALL people would cheat given the right set of circumstances and the right temptation, many just don't have enough of those circumstances and temptations occur to the degree required to go through with it. In other words it really doesn't count that someone doesn't cheat if their marriage is in the crapper but they don't have any valid opportunity pop up. It also doesn't really count if someone has the opportunity but their marriage is solid and they are happy with things. You statement that there is a group of people that will cheat regardless is accurate.
xxoo Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 What I didn't recognize until reading all your responses was the fact that I've been grieving -- hard -- the loss of the attraction I used to have for my husband, and the loss of that kind of passion in my life in general. In my avoidance of thinking about it, I delayed the grieving, and thus my getting on with some kind of plan. It's hard enough maintaining my own program to stay healthy and fit and attractive; I'm not sure how I'll do trying to assist someone with whom I live, without conflict. But try I must. I think this says a lot. Maybe that's the conversation that you need to have with your husband: rediscovering passion, and not starting in the bedroom. What unfulfilled dreams do the two of you have? When you were younger, were there trips and adventures you planned to take together? Maybe he needs to reignite his own passion for life before he finds the motivation to improve his health and appearance.
tommyr Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 Many here say "everybody gets fat as they get older" Many here say "you should accept him regardless of how much he changes" Most use nicer words than above, but basically this IS what they are saying, right? Well I firmly disagree with both of the above positions. Age (getting older) does NOT cause weight gain!!! There is a simple law of thermodynamics - the ONLY way to gain weight is to eat more calories than you burn. If your husband has gained 70 pounds, then he is now clinically obese (unless he is over 6'6" and weighed 150 pounds when you met). Obviously he doesn't care enough about his own appearance to control his calorie ratio (intake vs burn). And since you've already made him aware that his obesity turns you off, neither does he care about your sexual disinterest in an obese partner. Sounds to me like he is just lazy, comfortable, and selfish. And you have every right to be turned off by a lazy fat guy. So please don't feel guilty about feeling this way. Now, without being mean about it, I suggest you continue to ask him about his weight loss program. You might even help him through good example by working on losing your extra 15 pounds through diet and exercise.
crederer Posted September 2, 2013 Posted September 2, 2013 Obviously he's going to get defensive. I don't know exactly how you approached the conversation but typically saying you want you guys both to get into better shape is more of a "hey lets do this as a team" and less of an insult. He'll get over it. Juts make sure to cook healthier meals and get a dog to walk or something.
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