The myth of "Women should initiate more..."

[tbf]

No but when you get on here and talk about men being bigger and stronger there are equalizers available today. That is all I am saying.

Which is irrelevant as it relates to approaching since the average woman won't be packing concealed or interested in MMA cage fighting.

 

You can deny biological hormonal factors as much as you wish, stating outlier data points but suggesting that women should be just as risk tolerant and strong as men, hence break with biology 101 never mind breaking with social convention, is asking a lot of women as a generality.

 

The above doesn't preclude women with higher T-levels and/or are socially unconventional but on a gaussian curve, these women will be outliers.

[Divasu]

I think women can help by communicating interest but not full-on pursue men in the initial stages (I tend to agree with TBF regarding the natural premise of men).

 

If he cannot pursue, if he cannot lead, that leaves the woman in the driver's seat initially and most women are not built for it emotionally or otherwise. Women tend to admire men who are a bit stronger than themselves...I think men are typically happier long term when a good chunk of her happiness and satisfaction is a result of him and his decisiveness.

[joystickd]

Which is irrelevant as it relates to approaching since the average woman won't be packing concealed or interested in MMA cage fighting.

 

You can deny biological hormonal factors as much as you wish, stating outlier data points but suggesting that women should be just as risk tolerant and strong as men, hence break with biology 101 never mind breaking with social convention, is asking a lot of women as a generality.

 

The above doesn't preclude women with higher T-levels and/or are socially unconventional but on a gaussian curve, these women will be outliers.

Save the science sh*t! For real it's like that then why want to be equal with men. I say if instead of complaining about not being able to find good men get off your a$$ and do something about it.

[JourneyLady]

On approach: You'd be surprised who catches my eye in a grocery store sometimes, but not knowing who's single and who's taken (his wife or girlfriend could be right up the aisle) certainly stalls me. I'm sort of slow to size up situations and distracted by shopping, so by the time I -really- notice, they are usually gone. Then again, I'm an introvert -- I tend to respond to people when they talk to me, but don't initiate much with -anyone- I don't know. But I do smile a lot. Initiation of more than a smile even less likely when I worry about rejection. (Unless we've almost bumped carts, then you will get a smile and a "oops, sorry!".

 

I'm only speaking for myself, not "most" women.

 

What women are attracted to:

 

Take an hour. Go sit in a parking lot by your nearest large store on a Friday evening or Saturday. Look at the good looking women and look at who the ones in couples are with. Look at the less good looking women and look at who they are with. Now see if the ones who barely have anything to offer are with anyone at all...

 

Study it. I've been married to what you'd call a "hot" guy (but he wasn't when I first married him!) and I've had a short, way overweight boyfriend and I've had two somewhere in the middle.

 

In those parking lots, I've seen good looking guys and couldn't figure out why they picked the women they were with and vice versa. Inevitably coupledom features something "more".

[tbf]

Save the science sh*t!

Science is factual.

 

For real it's like that then why want to be equal with men. I say if instead of complaining about not being able to find good men get off your a$$ and do something about it.

This is illogical, in that women have nothing to prove to men in a dating arena. If men don't want to approach, they don't have to. If women don't want to approach, they don't have to. The net result of this is that men and women run the same risk of no one approaching them so they remain single. Sounds like equality to me, the freedom to do whatever they want, hence the acceptance of consequences for their actions.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think women can help by communicating interest but not full-on pursue men in the initial stages (I tend to agree with TBF regarding the natural premise of men).

 

If he cannot pursue, if he cannot lead, that leaves the woman in the driver's seat initially and most women are not built for it emotionally or otherwise. Women tend to admire men who are a bit stronger than themselves...I think men are typically happier long term when a good chunk of her happiness and satisfaction is a result of him and his decisiveness.

 

Genuine question: how do you that? What are some helpful signs a young man can look to?

[joystickd]

Science is factual.

 

This is illogical, in that women have nothing to prove to men in a dating arena. If men don't want to approach, they don't have to. If women don't want to approach, they don't have to. The net result of this is that men and women run the same risk of no one approaching them so they remain single. Sounds like equality to me, the freedom to do whatever they want, hence the acceptance of consequences for their actions.

Not really......I just got a hustler mentality and if you want it you got to get off you ass to get it. That is with everything in life

[tbf]

Not really......

So you wish women to approach in order to make it advantageous to men? That's not equality or freedom. That's called self-interest.

[tbf]

I just got a hustler mentality and if you want it you got to get off you ass to get it. That is with everything in life

Looks like you added to your post after I quoted it.

 

So, what hormones would you say drive hustler mentality?

[joystickd]

So you wish women to approach in order to make it advantageous to men? That's not equality or freedom. That's called self-interest.

No I say do it to be more proactive in their life. I don't really give a sh*t. Hell women approach me and I approach women so their is no self interest. The thing is though if you want to be equal with men you got to do everything and not just pick and choose. Just like I say I got a hustler mind so instead of spending time wondering why can't I find a good man or woman they need to be proactive and get off their a$$ and improve their situation. No one has success all the time by waiting for it to come to you. I got no pity for these women that complain. You get what comes to you.

[joystickd]

Looks like you added to your post after I quoted it.

 

So, what hormones would you say drive hustler mentality?

None. I know females that get out here and get it. It's not a small amount.

Sounds like you want to use science to rationalize being lazy

[PJKino]

The average man with normal testosterone levels will have 10 to 20 times more testosterone than the average woman. This means that men are that many multiple times more risk tolerant. Factor in that when it comes to physical strength and aggression, the average man will be stronger and more aggressive than the average woman, assuming relative emotional stability in normal T level men.

 

WHy cant women just be honest and say i like it this way because its easier for me and puts me in the driver seat early on where the man has to risk rejection and i dont

[tbf]

I got no pity for these women that complain.

I have no pity for anyone who whines about it, regardless of gender.

 

None. I know females that get out here and get it. It's not a small amount.

Sounds like you want to use science to rationalize being lazy

And you disregard science to attempt to prove your point where your point isn't based on facts, just subjective biases.

[PJKino]

Relying on women to approach, sure.

 

Factoring in the man's approach, and the attraction that can be generated by such, that's not the reality at all.

 

So you're saying women are more shallow at first glance then men and the only way men can combat that is men have more personality/charisma then the average women to where they can become more attractive through personality and women can't

[joystickd]

I have no pity for anyone who whines about it, regardless of gender.

 

And you disregard science to attempt to prove your point where your point isn't based on facts, just subjective biases.

 

Hell gay men that are transsexuals have testosterone.

[Divasu]

Genuine question: how do you that? What are some helpful signs a young man can look to?

 

Oh me? I don't think I am the right person to ask because I tend to not give out any signs initially and have been told by quite I few that I am very hard to read.

 

If I see a man in public that I am attracted to, I'm pretty much a ball of putty (I get nervous, shy, etc.). The only exception is if I've had a cocktail or two, then I become ballsy/flirty.

 

When I start interacting with someone I am attracted to during dates and what not, I notice after-the-fact that I've twirled my hair, leaned in closer, and have a big cheesy grin on my face when we're looking at one another. I become playful and touchy towards him.

 

If it's someone I am not hot-to-trot over, I can flirt like the best of them but I toned that down quite some time ago because it gives the other person the wrong impression and could be misleading.

 

I don't know if that helped, but, happy to help!

[joystickd]

You basically says women shouldnt be equal to men. Well thats what science says

[tbf]

Hell gay men that are transsexuals have testosterone.

There's no change in their T levels. They get massive doses of estrogen levels to offset. Go research how transition works so you can get some facts.

[joystickd]

There's no change in their T levels. They get massive doses of estrogen levels to offset. Go research how transition works so you can get some facts.

 

All i am saying is that its not this huge factor you make it out to be. You can get a man with high t levels that is shy as hell because of other factors. Its only a part of the picture. If you women want to be lazy and complain thats your choice. You get what you give.

[tbf]

All i am saying is that its not this huge factor you make it out to be.

I'm not the one making a big deal about this. I stated biological factors that impact on male and female dating strategies.

 

You can get a man with high t levels that is shy as hell because of other factors. Its only a part of the picture. If you women want to be lazy and complain thats your choice. You get what you give.

Once again, conclusions drawn off subjective perception and preferences, instead of attempting to base conclusions on factual data.

 

Understand something. I get what I want out of life. How about you?

[NYC-BigKat]

There are a lot of threads by guys on LS (often but not always guys who aren't doing well with women) saying that they wish women initiated more. Well I have news for you guys. The way things are now actually works in your favor if you are willing to use it.

 

I had this realization on the date I went out with last night. I met the woman via cold-approach in the grocery store. I asked her if she had noticed me before I went up to talk to her. "Truthfully no. I was busy thinking about my day."

 

And what if she had been thinking of meeting a man and was willing to approach? Well, I'm realistic. There are a lot of younger taller better-looking guys around. I do OLD and despite writing good emails, I rarely get a response. So what I am getting at is that she probably would have approached some other guy and not me. That's what guys need to get: If women did approach more often, why would they approach *you*?

 

HOWEVER, as she doesn't approach, and the better-looking guys didn't approach her, that left an opening for myself. And I took it. Taking initiative is a very attractive quality. I have that, and even though it doesn't show up in OLD, it shows in person, and I really use that to my advantage.

 

There are openings for we guys all the time, we just need to take them.

 

Um..what exactly is a opening 'cause I cant tell if I ever get one & when I approach the girl doesn't seem like she wanna talk to me or fakes being a nice girl when she really isn't .

[fortyninethousand322]

Oh me? I don't think I am the right person to ask because I tend to not give out any signs initially and have been told by quite I few that I am very hard to read.

 

If I see a man in public that I am attracted to, I'm pretty much a ball of putty (I get nervous, shy, etc.). The only exception is if I've had a cocktail or two, then I become ballsy/flirty.

 

When I start interacting with someone I am attracted to during dates and what not, I notice after-the-fact that I've twirled my hair, leaned in closer, and have a big cheesy grin on my face when we're looking at one another. I become playful and touchy towards him.

 

If it's someone I am not hot-to-trot over, I can flirt like the best of them but I toned that down quite some time ago because it gives the other person the wrong impression and could be misleading.

 

I don't know if that helped, but, happy to help!

 

Yeah, I've had that happen to me. Wasn't actually interest though.

[joystickd]

I'm not the one making a big deal about this. I stated biological factors that impact on male and female dating strategies.

 

Once again, conclusions drawn off subjective perception and preferences, instead of attempting to base conclusions on factual data.

 

Understand something. I get what I want out of life. How about you?

 

Yeah I do. My thing is one shouldnt be bound by science or studies. The mind is a powerful thing once you believe something you become a slave to it

[tbf]

Yeah I do. My thing is one shouldnt be bound by science or studies.

If one doesn't include hard and soft sciences in one's conclusions, they're full of it, making things up without consideration of what drives humanity.

[joystickd]

If one doesn't include hard and soft sciences in one's conclusions, they're full of it, making things up without consideration of what drives humanity.

 

You are still missing my point