The myth of "Women should initiate more..."

[Imajerk17]

There are a lot of threads by guys on LS (often but not always guys who aren't doing well with women) saying that they wish women initiated more. Well I have news for you guys. The way things are now actually works in your favor if you are willing to use it.

 

I had this realization on the date I went out with last night. I met the woman via cold-approach in the grocery store. I asked her if she had noticed me before I went up to talk to her. "Truthfully no. I was busy thinking about my day."

 

And what if she had been thinking of meeting a man and was willing to approach? Well, I'm realistic. There are a lot of younger taller better-looking guys around. I do OLD and despite writing good emails, I rarely get a response. So what I am getting at is that she probably would have approached some other guy and not me. That's what guys need to get: If women did approach more often, why would they approach *you*?

 

HOWEVER, as she doesn't approach, and the better-looking guys didn't approach her, that left an opening for myself. And I took it. Taking initiative is a very attractive quality. I have that, and even though it doesn't show up in OLD, it shows in person, and I really use that to my advantage.

 

There are openings for we guys all the time, we just need to take them.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Imajerk17

[mesmerized]

haha good realization! I think women approaching more would be great for the more attractive men but would leave less attractive men feel even worse. This is kind of what's going on with women...That's why women always despise their more attractive friends, because they pretty much steal all the attention from them.

[StanMusial]

There are a lot of threads by guys on LS (often but not always guys who aren't doing well with women) saying that they wish women initiated more. Well I have news for you guys. The way things are now actually works in your favor if you are willing to use it.

 

I had this realization on the date I went out with last night. I met the woman via cold-approach in the grocery store. I asked her if she had noticed me before I went up to talk to her. "Truthfully no. I was busy thinking about my day."

 

And what if she had been thinking of meeting a man and was willing to approach? Well, I'm realistic. There are a lot of younger taller better-looking guys around. I do OLD and despite writing good emails, I rarely get a response. So what I am getting at is that she probably would have approached some other guy and not me. That's what guys need to get: If women did approach more often, why would they approach *you*?

 

HOWEVER, as she doesn't approach, and the better-looking guys didn't approach her, that left an opening for myself. And I took it. Taking initiative is a very attractive quality. I have that, and even though it doesn't show up in OLD, it shows in person, and I really use that to my advantage.

 

There are openings for we guys all the time, we just need to take them.

 

It has worked since the dawn of time. Better to be bold and flame out in a blaze of glory than cower in frustration in front of a screen.

[Imported]

OP, I agree with guys should be happy to be the ones approaching and it'd be much worse if women approached more. I am very happy that that is how it usually is. Everyday, everywhere, it is endless probabilities with women I come across. I am a very selective person and I like that the probabilities keep their distance unless I choose to try to make them a reality. It just simplifies everything for me. I go for the girls I want and the girls I don't want don't bother me. Total win win. I don't understand why some guys think it's bad.

[joystickd]

That's what guys need to get: If women did approach more often, why would they approach *you*?

 

This same question could be posed to women. I noticed there are two thoughts on why it's brought up women should approach.

1. You have guys that are basically tired of always approaching and getting rejected or just having their time wasted. They think women approaching would eliminate those two problems

 

2. Equality. We live in a time now of men and women being equal and you here talk on here about how women hate gender roles. If you feel that way then choosing not to approach makes you a hypocrite. They need to see things from the male point of view. Hell I never knew what it felt like from a woman's point of view to hear those crazy comments men make to women about body parts or those obnoxious guys that cat call or whatever the hell it is until I worked long term care. Old women are a whole lot worse than dirty old men. My coworkers laugh because they are like now you get what we have to go through with men.

 

I would say to anyone man or woman if a person intrigues you that much go an approach them.

[PJKino]

I would agree women are only attracted at first sight to the top % few men so most guys would get ignored otherwise

[tbf]

The average man with normal testosterone levels will have 10 to 20 times more testosterone than the average woman. This means that men are that many multiple times more risk tolerant. Factor in that when it comes to physical strength and aggression, the average man will be stronger and more aggressive than the average woman, assuming relative emotional stability in normal T level men.

[joystickd]

I would agree women are only attracted at first sight to the top % few men so most guys would get ignored otherwise

This top percentage illusion is funny.

[fortyninethousand322]

I have never been someone who thought women need to approach more. I mean if that's who you are great but it's not really an imperative. I've just wanted more clarity on what constituted interest vs just being friendly. I'm not really good at distinguishing between the two. And I've also wanted to not feel like a creep when talking to a girl or asking her out or something, you know?

 

I don't need women to initiate, I just need them to help me walk through the first few (or several) steps. Understand that if I'm awkward it's because I've never done any of this successfully before, so bear with me.

[joystickd]

The average man with normal testosterone levels will have 10 to 20 times more testosterone than the average woman. This means that men are that many multiple times more risk tolerant. Factor in that when it comes to physical strength and aggression, the average man will be stronger and more aggressive than the average woman, assuming relative emotional stability in normal T level men.

Women skydive so does that mean they have more testosterone than the average woman. I mean hell if you can do that then approaching shouldn't be that bad

[joystickd]

I have never been someone who thought women need to approach more. I mean if that's who you are great but it's not really an imperative. I've just wanted more clarity on what constituted interest vs just being friendly.

I think for a lot of guys this is why they want women to approach. On some level women are not a clearcut and definite like men are. Approaching would give these men a more clear indicator that women are interested. I had a woman block me in a parking spot and ask me was I single and got my number. I will say damn it felt good to get that type of validation for once.

[tbf]

Women skydive so does that mean they have more testosterone than the average woman. I mean hell if you can do that then approaching shouldn't be that bad

Just providing facts to people. If they don't understand the underlying biological hormonal factors, they're not going to be able to draw educated conclusions.

 

It's much like the ignorant twenty year old male assumptions that women should have similar fat levels as men (below healthy thresholds for women) and how easy it is to keep off weight. The reality is, that if women consume the same amount of calories as a man of equal size, she's not going to burn the same amount of calories and build the same amount of muscle, because of major T level differences.

[joystickd]

Just providing facts to people. If they don't understand the underlying biological hormonal factors, they're not going to be able to draw educated conclusions.

 

It's much like the ignorant twenty year old male assumptions that women should have similar fat levels as men (below healthy thresholds for women) and how easy it is to keep off weight. The reality is, that if women consume the same amount of calories as a man of equal size, she's not going to burn the same amount of calories and build the same amount of muscle, because of major T level differences.

The thing is those facts aren't so black and white. Men are bigger and stronger but women can get guns or taught to properly fight. It's kind of makes those facts not so worthy as to proof why. There are women with very outgoing personalities so approaching would be good for them. You fact on T levels just makes it seem like every woman is so shy and lives in fear when the reality disproves that.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think for a lot of guys this is why they want women to approach. On some level women are not a clearcut and definite like men are. Approaching would give these men a more clear indicator that women are interested. I had a woman block me in a parking spot and ask me was I single and got my number. I will say damn it felt good to get that type of validation for once.

 

Yeah, I've really had my head put through the ringer with some girls. It really puts a lot of self-doubt and hesitation in your head when interacting with women.

 

I'm told that if women cross their legs with their legs pointed toward you it's interest. If they play with their hair while talking with you. If they go out of their way to touch you, etc. And I'm like, I've had women do that and more and it had nothing to do with sexual or romantic interest. So I end up completely lost and confused.

[fortyninethousand322]

The thing is those facts aren't so black and white. Men are bigger and stronger but women can get guns or taught to properly fight. It's kind of makes those facts not so worthy as to proof why. There are women with very outgoing personalities so approaching would be good for them. You fact on T levels just makes it seem like every woman is so shy and lives in fear when the reality disproves that.

 

tbf is right. Biologically, all things being equal (she mentioned emotional factors particularly) men have higher testosterone levels and that typically indicates higher aggression, strength and risk tolerance.

 

Which means that men who don't like to approach either have something else going on, or they have lower testosterone levels.

[tbf]

The thing is those facts aren't so black and white. Men are bigger and stronger but women can get guns or taught to properly fight. It's kind of makes those facts not so worthy as to proof why. There are women with very outgoing personalities so approaching would be good for them.

So women should pack concealed and learn martial arts, just so they can approach men?

 

You fact on T levels just makes it seem like every woman is so shy and lives in fear when the reality disproves that.

No, that's just your presumption of what I've stated.

[xxoo]

It it ain't broke, don't fix it. Taking a look at the population growth, I'd say it's working just fine.

 

Theoretically, women approaching would lead to more sex for a few men, and no sex for most. It would lead to very few relationships.

[joystickd]

tbf is right. Biologically, all things being equal (she mentioned emotional factors particularly) men have higher testosterone levels and that typically indicates higher aggression, strength and risk tolerance.

 

Which means that men who don't like to approach either have something else going on, or they have lower testosterone levels.

On some level she is right but it's not really a true indicator. What about people with outgoing personalities that have low t levels. There can be ways made to compensate for shortcomings.

[joystickd]

So women should pack concealed and learn martial arts, just so they can approach men?

.

No but when you get on here and talk about men being bigger and stronger there are equalizers available today. That is all I am saying.

[Imported]

This is just mental masturbation.

 

The only thing that matters is if she likes your looks.

 

If you approach and she rejects you, it's the same as if she never approached you.

 

But if women approached it would be easier. I'll tell you why: we would know which ones are interested and just choose the ones we like the best.

 

Doing the approach is always harder than living your life and getting approached.

 

See below

 

 

I don't need women to initiate, I just need them to help me walk through the first few (or several) steps. Understand that if I'm awkward it's because I've never done any of this successfully before, so bear with me.

 

Women do this all the time. Consciously and sub-consciously. Subtly and blindingly obvious. I pick from these women. Doing the approach is not harder in this case. Rejecting a girl is a non-issue here.

 

Have you ever had to reject women?

 

Ok, how bout this. You are a buyer. You have to buy everything via a phone call. What would be better:

 

A) You calling up a place selling what you want at what ever time is best for you.

 

B) Whatever place selling whatever **** calling you up at whatever time. Trying really hard to sell you their **** and taking it way to personal and getting angry if you don't want to buy it.

 

 

If you are the type of guy that a girl would approach if girls started approaching more.....yes, it can be that much trouble. If you are not that guy, than as mezmerized said.....you'll still be standing on the side-lines watching as even more girls....not just the few very bold ones or ones that drank too much...but even the ones that are very shy and would never approach, all compete for that one guy and ignore you.

[joystickd]

It it ain't broke, don't fix it. Taking a look at the population growth, I'd say it's working just fine.

 

Theoretically, women approaching would lead to more sex for a few men, and no sex for most. It would lead to very few relationships.

And proof of that would be?

[joystickd]

It it ain't broke, don't fix it. Taking a look at the population growth, I'd say it's working just fine.

 

Theoretically, women approaching would lead to more sex for a few men, and no sex for most. It would lead to very few relationships.

You act like the present model is really working. There is less marriage and more burn outs out here. Population growth lol. I never thought being a baby momma was a good thing.

[xxoo]

So basically "top 20%" theory isn't full of crap?

 

Relying on women to approach, sure.

 

Factoring in the man's approach, and the attraction that can be generated by such, that's not the reality at all.

[joystickd]

I think the thing is the men are not saying women have to approach 100% of the time. I will say women do need to take a more proactive approach. If you are complaining about not finding a good man then at some point you need to be more proactive. It's like hustlers used to tell me a closed mouth ain't gonna get fed.

[fortyninethousand322]

Women do this all the time. Consciously and sub-consciously. Subtly and blindingly obvious. I pick from these women. Doing the approach is not harder in this case. Rejecting a girl is a non-issue here.

 

Have you ever had to reject women?

 

Ok, how bout this. You are a buyer. You have to buy everything via a phone call. What would be better:

 

A) You calling up a place selling what you want at what ever time is best for you.

 

B) Whatever place selling whatever **** calling you up at whatever time. Trying really hard to sell you their **** and taking it way to personal and getting angry if you don't want to buy it.

 

 

If you are the type of guy that a girl would approach if girls started approaching more.....yes, it can be that much trouble. If you are not that guy, than as mezmerized said.....you'll still be standing on the side-lines watching as even more girls....not just the few very bold ones or ones that drank too much...but even the ones that are very shy and would never approach, all compete for that one guy and ignore you.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here. I get that men doing the approaching has a lot of advantages and that men in general should approach. That's great. All I'm saying is if I approach I often a) come off like a creep or an awkward loser (probably because I am the latter) or b) don't get the difference between friendly signals and romantic ones. I mean it's really like trying to read War and Peace backwards in Wingdings font.

 

So all I need is a woman to be receptive to my approaches and be ok with me being a bit awkward for probably the first 5-10 dates/hangouts. Because I'm like a baby who's never walked before.