Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 Good point. In fact, you can take a "loss" if any of that money was technically a loan and is not "recoverable", I believe. If there is ANY grey area, make it work in your favor. For example, the $10K to start her business, surely that must have been a loan...wink-wink. In the meantime, the most important thing I would take care of is getting your name off that car you co-signed for....especially if she drinks a lot...well just especially the car. You could lose even more. If her credit is fixed up now, she should be able to do this AND want to if her intentions about the money/control stuff are pure. I am not familiar with your thread@being controlling. I just find it interesting that as soon as the money is not flowing, that's the critique. When in fact, a person who gives money would have a lot more control. I sense she is playing you...perhaps to a very great extent. None of it was signed on. It was basically cash given, or e-transfers sent. She has had issues with my insecurities about the relationship from early on.. I'm not denying that. But it was within the last month that she said that is how she is viewing some of my behavior. She sent a few links to me, after she had broken up with me, highlighting elements of my actions and how they related to controlling/abusive behavior. These links were sent after she asked to have some space to herself, and I wasn't able to keep my hands off the phone, thusly crossing her personal boundaries she had just set... Another issue on the "lists" I'm just sad, confused, hurt. Not sure left from right. I'm a great guy... And I believe she is a great girl.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 I'm a great guy... And I believe she is a great girl. That being said you should have no fear consulting w. professionals. Once you figure out several options, she'll willingly go along documentation to protect both of you.
Versacehottie Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Hmmm, maybe I'm confused. I thought you said you co-signed for the car. Anyway, if you did, get your name off that sh*t. And like balzac keeps saying check with a professional about the ability to take a loss when you file your tax returns of monies not recoverable. I have done it before when a client didn't pay me. I forget the exact term but the line item is right there each year I review my tax returns. One year after discussing with my brilliant tax accountant, it was filled in for money I was owed but was never going to get. It won't be the same as getting your $10K back but at least it's worth something. I'm sorry that it hasn't worked out. I do think that sometimes guys get really upset about the money they have given or spent on women after a break-up and exaggerate the sums and purposes because it's "messy". Assuming that's not the case here, and you did just truly hand over wads of cash, I do feel really bad for you. I can see trying to help her start a business or paying for necessities but by the items&amounts listed, it feels like a lot more is unaccounted for...that tells me she wasn't cutting back on her lifestyle AT ALL...which isn't fair of her to do month after month so in that's why I think she was playing you. Also maybe you liked being a saviour/provider and got caught up it being in love with her and the communication about giving this money wasn't as clear as it ought to have been. I'm going to take you at word that you are a nice guy. Well in the future, you can find out if that's good enough for the one you love by leaving money out of it. Be a gentlemen and generous with the $$$$ you spent courting/dating her and that's it. your girlfriends should pay for the basics in life (rent, etc) if they can't do that or you fix for them, you are going to feel used and attract golddiggas. Since you're nice, realize you are too generous in some ways and hold back. And for god's sake, don't do a 180 and become a cheapskate, just because this b*tch burned you. That's not attractive. Lastly, I would take a moment or two to examine your real intentions for giving her the money. You said she's sooo hot, alpha etc. (alpha btw seem like they would be making there own cash but i digress)....right there, if i read between the lines, i'm hearing that you feel like she is better than you. Which makes sense that in some ways you would try to give her incentive to stay, in this case cash. You could work on some confidence, I guess. I mean you are the one who has $150K job, had $75 in bank and a jet-set job, very nice and could at least pull a hot hot girl. She, on the other hand, works intermittenly, earns less than you and makes bad decisions. I just think you need to see it differently. You are the catch by what has been written here. 1
It-is-what-it-is. Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Floater... You probably did this on purpose, but if you had put both of these in one thread I would have given you different advice. Way different. You need to see her for what she is and not what you want her to be. She has been mooching off of you, letting you support her living expenses. Car, running around money, etc. while you work out of the country. She has lots of good male friends who have poor boundaries You are insecure so you snoop and she breaks up with you and calls you controlling. While you are out if the country. So she is living I your house, driving the car you bought and pay for, spending your money and you want to know what I think? Honey....you ARE BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE. Do this. Tell her you agree you should break up. Tell her that you will contact an attorney to draw up repayment papers for the business loan. Ask her if she would like to get a loan to take over the car payment, or else you will have the lawyer sell it and close the loan. Give her a week to find a new place to live. Tell her that you will be canceling the cell, cable whatever credit cards you got her today. So she may want to get a pay as you go plan. Stop the $, change passwords on any accounts you shared so no more can be taken. I BET she comes back and says she loves you and wants to work through your controlling ways. Right. Then do it. Have a friend go to your house and make sure she is not stealing you blind. 1
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 Well... I didn't included lots of background info, in either one of my posts. They seemed to be unrelated questions when I posted them. But I guess it helps when people can see the whole picture. That being said, there are many things that have not been included. The intention of this post was just to ask whether or not I was doing the right thing by helping out... Some Months are better than others, however I am not exaggerating the amounts lost/spent/given or whatever. I feel lost. If you are unhappy with an aspect of your partners behavior, ie. insecurities,/controlling/abusive tendencies, and you express that, how long can someone expect you to hold on, without showing changes? The emotion, and money that is 'invested' in this relationship is lots... I felt she was the one... And she felt I was the one. I AM a good guy, and don't need anyone to tell me/or convince me of that... I just think that I'm a bit to passive, and caring at times. How many of you would agree to consign a vehicle loan to help your partner rebuild credit? How many of you would send $10,000 dollars in 3 weeks? I just feel like such a total retard sometimes... I had accepted a while ago, that I wouldn't get the money back, it's just staggering looking from an outside perspective. And IF we were to get back together, my wallet will remain closed.
It-is-what-it-is. Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Well... I didn't included lots of background info, in either one of my posts. They seemed to be unrelated questions when I posted them. But I guess it helps when people can see the whole picture. That being said, there are many things that have not been included. The intention of this post was just to ask whether or not I was doing the right thing by helping out... Some Months are better than others, however I am not exaggerating the amounts lost/spent/given or whatever. I feel lost. If you are unhappy with an aspect of your partners behavior, ie. insecurities,/controlling/abusive tendencies, and you express that, how long can someone expect you to hold on, without showing changes? The emotion, and money that is 'invested' in this relationship is lots... I felt she was the one... And she felt I was the one. I AM a good guy, and don't need anyone to tell me/or convince me of that... I just think that I'm a bit to passive, and caring at times. How many of you would agree to consign a vehicle loan to help your partner rebuild credit? How many of you would send $10,000 dollars in 3 weeks? I just feel like such a total retard sometimes... I had accepted a while ago, that I wouldn't get the money back, it's just staggering looking from an outside perspective. And IF we were to get back together, my wallet will remain closed. Floater....honey...you need to see that she's still taking you for a ride. I do not want to abuse you but you need to snap out of it. You are the same age as my daughter. So I feel really worried about you Giving money early in a relationship is a no no. You should never even ask. She should never even ask. Go back and read what I wrote. Adjust the approach for the absent facts.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Again, I encourage you to seek out professional opinions on how to stem the total loss. I'm not telling you how to get your cash back. Unless and until you tell me you have a JD/MBA - you lack sufficient knowledge to know what your best options are. You may well get back w her. Seeking out the best way to deal with the financial loss is best way to have expectations for any future relationship. This is not about whether others would gift of cosign to the sum of &100,000. This is about you jumping in to save a drowning lover and nearly drowning yourself. Point of fact is many times the rescuer is pushed under the water to death.
It-is-what-it-is. Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 The intention of this post was just to ask whether or not I was doing the right thing by helping out... The emotion, and money that is 'invested' in this relationship is lots... I felt she was the one... And she felt I was the one. No...you do not rescue someone and pay their bills and give them money unless they are family (married) or a prostitute. If you are unhappy with an aspect of your partners behavior, ie. insecurities,/controlling/abusive tendencies, and you express that, how long can someone expect you to hold on, without showing changes? How long you hang on is directly relational to how much you are emotionally invested. Just to be clear...nothing you have stated indicated "insecurities /controlling/ abusive tendencies" outside of normal long distance relationship & new relationship angst.
crederer Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 I've helped girlfriends in the past with small things. My ex made little money so once in a while I'd buy her some groceries so she could make it til next pay, and once or twice I paid for a portion of her prescription medication because she was a little short. Now what you're talking about is crazy. You make a good income, I'm guessing in IT or something to do with computers and not something business related at all. I'm guessing you don't often get female attention and a good looking girl came along and got what she wanted. You need to get a lawyer and get your money back and take a lesson from this.
Versacehottie Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Well... The intention of this post was just to ask whether or not I was doing the right thing by helping out... Some Months are better than others, however I am not exaggerating the amounts lost/spent/given or whatever. I feel lost. If you are unhappy with an aspect of your partners behavior, ie. insecurities,/controlling/abusive tendencies, and you express that, how long can someone expect you to hold on, without showing changes? The emotion, and money that is 'invested' in this relationship is lots... I felt she was the one... And she felt I was the one. I AM a good guy, and don't need anyone to tell me/or convince me of that... I just think that I'm a bit to passive, and caring at times. How many of you would agree to consign a vehicle loan to help your partner rebuild credit? How many of you would send $10,000 dollars in 3 weeks? I just feel like such a total retard sometimes... I had accepted a while ago, that I wouldn't get the money back, it's just staggering looking from an outside perspective. And IF we were to get back together, my wallet will remain closed. I have understood the intention of your post all along. And i totally get that you are trying to understand the hurt and work through those feelings rather than get specific advice about getting money back and that part. However, I think the reason so many of us keep giving that advice is that it is PRECISELY what will help you feel better. You at least for the money part of it lost control. Well take it back. Switching from being the passive person to a proactive one, remedies a LOT. In some ways you must be mad at yourself for being taken advantage of...well best way to fix that is stop it and reverse the parts you can. Since money is a tangible, you are in the fortunate position of being able to gain some emotional remedy by dealing with the financial issues of your problem/breakup. Do it, you will feel better for sticking up for yourself now. Stop saying you're a retard. Classify it as nice/generous guy which are both good qualities and be cautious next time about who has access to those qualities. To answer your question: Cosign a loan: not unless we were married Send $10K in 3 weeks: probably not unless we are married or family or damn amazing reason Give $10k to start a business: i would probably do that depending on responsibility of my partner in work environment and viability of business I tend to think btw that you haven't exaggerated the amounts of money given...from the tone of your posts. But when you said "lost/spent/given", the word spent troubles me a little. What you spent trying to date this girls...dinners, trips, gifts to make her happy/make her your girlfriend, doesn't count as part of the $75K, right? That's on you, my friend. I don't like it when a relationship doesn't work out and guys included that money like the girl stole/took it from him. That's what I call renigging and poor sportsmanship. ugh. I hope not, floater.
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 Whether you were or not / present task is being willing to meet with professionals who see this multiple times everyday. Their job is to assist you in cleaning up the mess. Accepting that you are a ****tard and then not cleaning up the mess means you enjoy being a bvcktard. Think of it that way. Many a man has sold his soul for being in love. My intention is to make this relationship work. I can only imagine the resentment it would cause, if after being a nice guy, and helping out as much as I have, to do 180 and start making it the focal point of the problem.
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 I've helped girlfriends in the past with small things. My ex made little money so once in a while I'd buy her some groceries so she could make it til next pay, and once or twice I paid for a portion of her prescription medication because she was a little short. Now what you're talking about is crazy. You make a good income, I'm guessing in IT or something to do with computers and not something business related at all. I'm guessing you don't often get female attention and a good looking girl came along and got what she wanted. You need to get a lawyer and get your money back and take a lesson from this. It's not about getting the money back. It's about feeling unappreciated, etc. also please view the link in original post. I don't have a ton of long term relationship experience, but I am a good looking guy, with a good job, and I have enjoyed less serious 'relationships'/dating with good looking women. However never had intense feelings/connection like this.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 If that is how you see the goal of seeking professional advice then you still don't understand. 1
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 Again, I encourage you to seek out professional opinions on how to stem the total loss. I'm not telling you how to get your cash back. Unless and until you tell me you have a JD/MBA - you lack sufficient knowledge to know what your best options are. You may well get back w her. Seeking out the best way to deal with the financial loss is best way to have expectations for any future relationship. This is not about whether others would gift of cosign to the sum of &100,000. This is about you jumping in to save a drowning lover and nearly drowning yourself. Point of fact is many times the rescuer is pushed under the water to death. The thing is, it was always her intention ( she says ) to pay this money back. Especially the portion for the business. And as things sit now, she is working steadily, and has the earnings potential to also make 6 figures a year. This was supposed to me a long term team effort based on our feelings for each other. Would getting upset over the money, and seeking legal action/help to get money out of her HELP the relationship? How? It would just create resentment.
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 I have understood the intention of your post all along. And i totally get that you are trying to understand the hurt and work through those feelings rather than get specific advice about getting money back and that part. However, I think the reason so many of us keep giving that advice is that it is PRECISELY what will help you feel better. You at least for the money part of it lost control. Well take it back. Switching from being the passive person to a proactive one, remedies a LOT. In some ways you must be mad at yourself for being taken advantage of...well best way to fix that is stop it and reverse the parts you can. Since money is a tangible, you are in the fortunate position of being able to gain some emotional remedy by dealing with the financial issues of your problem/breakup. Do it, you will feel better for sticking up for yourself now. Stop saying you're a retard. Classify it as nice/generous guy which are both good qualities and be cautious next time about who has access to those qualities. To answer your question: Cosign a loan: not unless we were married Send $10K in 3 weeks: probably not unless we are married or family or damn amazing reason Give $10k to start a business: i would probably do that depending on responsibility of my partner in work environment and viability of business I tend to think btw that you haven't exaggerated the amounts of money given...from the tone of your posts. But when you said "lost/spent/given", the word spent troubles me a little. What you spent trying to date this girls...dinners, trips, gifts to make her happy/make her your girlfriend, doesn't count as part of the $75K, right? That's on you, my friend. I don't like it when a relationship doesn't work out and guys included that money like the girl stole/took it from him. That's what I call renigging and poor sportsmanship. ugh. I hope not, floater. I only included the portion of stating gifts/extra's because it is also quite a bit. OVER and above the 75,000. i do not regret one bit spending money on dates/gifts occasionally. Thanks for the reply
It-is-what-it-is. Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 My intention is to make this relationship work. I can only imagine the resentment it would cause, if after being a nice guy, and helping out as much as I have, to do 180 and start making it the focal point of the problem. Floater Unless something has changed from your post. She broke up with you. True? Then you need to honor that and close out this relationship. Not in anger, but honestly if you were married this is exact what you would need to do. You need to completely start fresh. I think a previous poster indicated you need to rebalance this if its going to be right. You were funding the relationship, it DID contribute to your lack of balance and insecurity. Didn't it? You should work on your issues, whatever they are. Same with her. But you do need to right this so that it does not sabotage any future potential. Being a pushover is not attractive either...you need to respect yourself too. You don't need to be mean, but you do need to resolve all parts of your broken relationship. Do you get it?
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 What you fail to comprehend is that relationships, be they personal or business, always benefit from honesty and good communication. Clarity defines good communication. Your premise seems to be that professional advice is about accusation and confrontation. An experienced, capable attorney isn't about adversarial confrontation. MOST of what business/tax law is about is structuring a business to facilitate expensing the greatest sum of costs thus allowing for salary, partnership distributions or benefits to be maximal. I'm sure her intention is to repay you. I'm sure she's working hard and raking in cash. The situation for you is that if she fails to understand fiduciary responsibility and fairness, she's not the ethical woman you believe her to be.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 There is an added angle to your story. Your salary is $150,000/yr. just say for easy we peg your age at 33. I choose that number based on your having completed your undergrad degree at 23. So you live on a housing allowance perhaps and get bonuses. You could have no education debt, we assume for this not. You could easily have saved $800,000. Instead your statement was that you've made this series of financial decisions, equal apparently to a quality sports car. You are saying you're tapped out. Things don't add up. I'm not sure if you cashed out of investments, used an inheritance or both. What I do know is you appear to not understand investment strategy nor structured tax planning. Perhaps you own a million $ coop or condo. For all I know you're in I/banking and a risk taker who sees financial swings as common place. I just know that you're asking questions here, you're sharing your story and folks here are offering you support and suggestions. Keep talking.
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 There is an added angle to your story. Your salary is $150,000/yr. just say for easy we peg your age at 33. I choose that number based on your having completed your undergrad degree at 23. So you live on a housing allowance perhaps and get bonuses. You could have no education debt, we assume for this not. You could easily have saved $800,000. Instead your statement was that you've made this series of financial decisions, equal apparently to a quality sports car. You are saying you're tapped out. Things don't add up. I'm not sure if you cashed out of investments, used an inheritance or both. What I do know is you appear to not understand investment strategy nor structured tax planning. Perhaps you own a million $ coop or condo. For all I know you're in I/banking and a risk taker who sees financial swings as common place. I just know that you're asking questions here, you're sharing your story and folks here are offering you support and suggestions. Keep talking. I appreciate all the advice. Really. The original post has a link to the break up portion of this relationship. She has stated, that this break up does not have to be permanent, but she needs to see significant change in the area she has been waiting for me to change.. Please see original post for link. As for more details about myself. I am 29, I work in oil and gas, I have a high school education. My earnings for the past 2 years have been 150,000/year, before that 100,000 Before that 80,000 before that say 70,000 My savings amassed in the past 9 years, was only 110,000$ I have a few investments. But nothing huge. I do not own a house or condo, I rent.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 Great to have done amazingly well. Your formal education is not the issue except as it relates to debt. I understand and accept that you seek a future w her. My point in tecommending professional counsel is to prepare you AND her for future growth. Personally in the relationship and financially. That's important. One business venture always leads to another. Success in planning and structuring can ensure maximum return and future wealth. It's in no way a pejorative about your formal education. I'm sure you're smart and work hard.
Author Floater Posted August 24, 2013 Author Posted August 24, 2013 Great to have done amazingly well. Your formal education is not the issue except as it relates to debt. I understand and accept that you seek a future w her. My point in tecommending professional counsel is to prepare you AND her for future growth. Personally in the relationship and financially. That's important. One business venture always leads to another. Success in planning and structuring can ensure maximum return and future wealth. It's in no way a pejorative about your formal education. I'm sure you're smart and work hard. Wasn't taken personally at all, just wanted to explain my position better. I am far from rich. And this was mentioned before, she could have chosen to use anybody in my opinion. I'm just upset confused over all of this. I really appreciate some of the advice.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 It's never easy to be blindsided about a personal behavior. Her bringing to your attention controlling behavior is indeed a justification for introspection and seeking input from outsiders. Painful as it may be. Identifying and acknowledging behavior is step #1 toward change. Wealth is a general concept. You've mastered earning and saving now set a goal of wise investing. Starting a business is a part of that strategy.
Balzac Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 fwiw many go to Harvard Busines School to earn an MBA just to hope for a successful business plan. For that they incure six figures of expense. Does that mean they are all successful or don't experience costly failure. NO. Embrace your success and be assured you can and will survive this. With luck you'll be in a romance.
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