Cultures where it's acceptable to cheat

[fanine]

Fair enough.

 

Like most folks, I prefer my own culture and it's mores and viewpoints.

 

But...leave others to their otherness.

 

It was certainly a bit of a culture shock for me! Just the openness of it all I guess is what struck me the most. I come from a big city, have travelled extensively, met many cultures here and abroad. It did all do my head in a bit when I realised I had been duped by not just the xMM but friends and family as well. I just felt so dumb. That is besides all the hurt...

[2sure]

A culture that tolerates infidelity in men, but has zero tolerance with a wife's infidelity....powerless women. It's easy enough to see , like you said, they come to another country, and wives kick them to the curb. I can understand their surprise too since they were raised that way, to take not give a woman the power of having a choice. On the other hand, have we heard of any Cuban women moving here and lamenting that their husbands weren't cheating?

[Anna-Belle]

It is strange to understand. I am still getting my head around it all, what I have seen, what I have heard.

 

I can understand how you have been and are struggling with this. I thought I knew US culture having lived there for years when I was younger until I became the OW of an American man. Suddenly I found myself in the midst of a culture clash. From my experience being the partner of someone with a different nationality lets you look so much deeper into that country's culture than just living in the country itself does. You are also very motivated to understand the person you love and how his culture affects your relationship.

[fanine]

A culture that tolerates infidelity in men, but has zero tolerance with a wife's infidelity....powerless women. It's easy enough to see , like you said, they come to another country, and wives kick them to the curb. I can understand their surprise too since they were raised that way, to take not give a woman the power of having a choice. On the other hand, have we heard of any Cuban women moving here and lamenting that their husbands weren't cheating?

 

Nope! To be honest I have only got to know one Cuban woman well here. I talked to her about the issue of infidelity. She said she will no longer date Cuban men. She said she missed their passion, how they make a woman feel like a queen. But she could not get past the infidelity and how the men saw no problem with it. I guess though she is also in a situation here she can date virtually every other nationality if she so pleases. If she was back in Cuba, then well there isn't the cultural mix as in the UK. It would only be Cuban men. I do not envy the women there at all.

[fanine]

I can understand how you have been and are struggling with this. I thought I knew US culture having lived there for years when I was younger until I became the OW of an American man. Suddenly I found myself in the midst of a culture clash. From my experience being the partner of someone with a different nationality lets you look so much deeper into that country's culture than just living in the country itself does. You are also very motivated to understand the person you love and how his culture affects your relationship.

 

I had had the experience a bit before as my ex husband was Italian. When I first started dating xMM, when I thought he was single, I wanted to learn about his culture, his religion, his country so I could understand him more. So I could understand the dynamics between us and conflicts that would sometimes arise due to misunderstandings. For example he was actually quite offended if I ever offered to say, split the bill at a restaurant. Doesn't usually happen with English men! Well not after the first couple of dates...

 

He had a head start on me having lived here for 9 years. It was exciting, I wanted so much to visit his home country. But the more I saw too about relationships and cuban men, that is how my suspicions were aroused and little by little I could see many things were being hidden from me.

[fanine]

In the island of Cuba:

 

 

Every time there is a man cheating there must be a women that is also cheating or at least helping the man cheat.

 

 

Men cannot cheat by themselves. They need a female genital to cheat. So perhaps I was wrong and women go along with it. Maybe this is the island culture, but as I said: Do not generalize! There are differences between Afro Cubans, Mulato Cubans, and Cubans of Spanish descent. There are also educational and socioeconomic differences. Do not generalize.

 

This would be like me saying all English women are dull in the sac whereas Cuban women are really hot in bed. DO you agree with that?

 

 

It is like saying all English men have a stiff upper lip and no sense of humor.

 

As I have said many times of course it is not every Cuban who is doing this. But my point is the culture is very different to what you or I have grown up with. It is tolerated far more and more widespread than here. Before my experience I would not have believed it either.

 

The fact is from talking to Cubans here and there, the men do not feel it is anything to be particularly ashamed of. That link from the American journalist living there gives a proper warts and all description of it. In England I have never been aware of any family or friends having affairs. In one week in Cuba I met two family members and five other men who had more than one partner. I would say 75 percent of the Cuban men i have known in london the past year and a half i have seen out with OW. some after i had even met their wives. Then of course there was my situation. A not knowing OW with a man who also had another OW besides the wife. Maybe the English just hide it more if everyone is the same here then??

 

It is far more prevalent. I have never seen english friends flaunting another OW. And yes it takes two to tango for sure. I'm pretty sure the women who do have affairs are just far more discreet though in Cuba.

 

After I had found out the truth an English friend of mine admitted that when she had first heard my xMM was Cuban she was concerned for me. She lived with Cubans 15 years ago and had experience of the culture. But she said nothing as she thought maybe he was a Cuban who could be honourable.

 

I know for sure that I would not have been hoodwinked for 8 months if the family and friends had not joined in with the lies. Everything was totally out in the open, except to his wife and me. There was nothing for me to be suspicious about. I am sure the majority of English men having an affair would not have been so open. I don't think the English people I know would cover for a MM in this way, so blatantly, knowing he had a wife back home.

 

I love Cubans, I love the country, I am not dissing Cubans at all. But for me to understand how I was so duped for so long I have looked into it properly. That has been my way to get me through the hurt and deceit. Talked to Cubans here and ones back in the country. Read everything I can.

 

It is just a different culture. Other woman have testified to that on this post. I am not saying it is acceptable there. I am not saying it is right. I certainly do not think that! I am not saying every Cuban will cheat. But it is a very different culture to the uk, and I would guess the US as well, where having more than one partner is pretty common.

[MissBee]

Generalizations about cultural attitudes are possible. It doesn't mean every person is this way, that's why it's called a generalization. Random rant: people often toss around "don't generalize" but generalizing, esp working in the social sciences, you have to, it's the basis of all social, scientific, anthropological theories. Generalizing in and of itself is not a bad thing as in doing research your claims have to be generalizeable to be valid. Even so, you obviously understand variations exist. Stereotyping is what is bad, not generalizing.

 

Anyway, I get you Fanine. People can glean whether or not something is a dominant cultural attitude. I've lived in the U.S. for 10 years but am not originally from here, and there are definitely differing cultural attitudes about infidelity in my original culture than in America. Cheating is certainly not acceptable there either, but how men go about it and women's responses to it are generally different to American cultural attitudes.

[MissBee]

Ok you made a good point. In fact, stereotypes are based on reality. So I guess, it must be true, Cubans are philanderers.

 

 

No one said that...so not sure what you're getting at.

 

Cultural attitudes vary from culture/country to country on different issues...this is a fact. This is unrelated to stereotyping or asserting all Cubans are philanderers. Cubans are philanderers is a stereotype, saying Cuban culture treats infidelity in X way is explaining the dominant cultural attitude people have about it and how people in that culture treat and interpret it.

Edited August 23, 2013 by MissBee

[MissBee]

The poster above said that it was acceptable to generalize. I said that stereotypes are based on reality even if they are insulting.

 

My main point is that Cuban culture has been fractured for over 50 years. The educated upper class fled the island and the poor stayed behind. Nevertheless, Cuba has made great strides. I went to school with many of the Cubans in the exile and they were not philanderers. However, I don't know the Cubans in the island.

 

Lets look at Americans: Would you say Anglo Americans that attended Harvard in Boston have the same cultural values as poor blacks (or others) in the inner city? If you only know one group or the other you will have an erroneous impression about American culture.

 

Here is another one for you: Muslims often believe that all American women are very easy and promiscuous. But, maybe they have only met a few.

 

 

This will go far off topic, so not sure if this should be touched in this thread.

 

But to be clear: I explained the difference between generalization and a stereotype, which are not the same things and I explained how the former is actually the basis of social, scientific, medical theories etc. and is not a bad thing when used in that vein. people conflate generalization and stereotype and they aren't the same things.

 

Generalization:

 

A generalization (or generalisation) of a concept is an extension of the concept to less-specific criteria. It is a foundational element of logic and human reasoning.Generalizations posit the existence of a domain or set of elements, as well as one or more common characteristics shared by those elements. As such, they are the essential basis of all valid deductive inferences. The process of verification is necessary to determine whether a generalization holds true for any given situation.

 

Stereotype:

 

Sociology . a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.

 

Cultural attitudes fall under generalization, "Cubans are philanderers" falls under stereotype.

 

Look up what a cultural attitude is. I'm not being rude here, I'm just saying maybe you're not clear on that. If you just Google it you'll find lots of scholarly articles where cultural attitudes are discussed and compared in different cultures. EVERY culture has dominant cultural attitudes, even if different groups in that culture treat certain issues differently, there are still dominant cultural values that people share, hence you can identify them as American, Cuban, Tanzanian etc.

 

It seems you're arguing that because you have different kinds of Americans or Cubans there are no common cultural attitudes which arise from being American or Cuban...which is false. What I do everyday in my research relies on the fact that cultural attitudes about different issues exist.

 

There are "American" ways of viewing the world...then depending on the topic you're researching you can break down the kinds of Americans and different groups...but there are unifying cultural attitudes that exist that most Americans/Cubans/Italians will share because of their cultural environment.

Edited August 24, 2013 by MissBee

[fanine]

Thanks for the info. I am extremely bad in sociology since I studied science and math in college. You are correct!

 

I think it has all been an interesting discussion anyway. I think from the start maybe the headline to my thread was written slightly wrong. But I have gleaned information from here and things to think about.

[Anna-Belle]

I saw a documentary once about it becoming more and more common that women from Norway go to find male partners in the Caribbean because the Scandinavian men, in the name of equality, have forgotten how to treat a woman.

[fanine]

I saw a documentary once about it becoming more and more common that women from Norway go to find male partners in the Caribbean because the Scandinavian men, in the name of equality, have forgotten how to treat a woman.

 

That was the main thing that struck me on first meeting my xMM (when I thought he was single) was how differently he treated me. He treated me like a lady. Every door was opened, if we had a cab he would run around the other side to open my door for me, he would pull my chair out at the restaurant. He would never let me pay for anything, even though I earned more than him. He told me too he loved the fact I was cultured and wore dresses and was so feminine, I guess in an old fashioned type of way. I had never experienced this way of being treated in all my dating years.

 

Unfortunately though for him acting like a complete gentlemen did not extend to being faithful, or honest

[fanine]

Nordic women love dark men. In 500-1000 years the entire world will be mocha and thankfully racism will end.:laugh:

 

Well I'm blonde....and like dark haired men

 

But re your other post, yes I do get that. These kind of guys know the right things to do and say.....

 

But all his friends were the same too with me. Treated me like a little goddess. As soon as I would walk in a room they would all immediately offer a chair for me, would make sure I had a drink, were attentive to me. It was flattering I admit. And it did make me feel more feminine...

[KathyM]

I have noticed in counseling others of Hispanic ethnicity that, because the culture being patriarchal there, and because of "machismo," infidelity is more tolerated by the women and proliferant among the men. It's sad to see how hurt these wives are by their husband's philandering--yet it is tolerated. Maybe because the women feel they have no other options than to stay with their husband for economic reasons, or because of their Catholic faith believe divorce is not acceptable, or they believe it will be no different with another man from their culture, but it's sad to see how hurt and powerless these women feel.

[fanine]

I have noticed in counseling others of Hispanic ethnicity that, because the culture being patriarchal there, and because of "machismo," infidelity is more tolerated by the women and proliferant among the men. It's sad to see how hurt these wives are by their husband's philandering--yet it is tolerated. Maybe because the women feel they have no other options than to stay with their husband for economic reasons, or because of their Catholic faith believe divorce is not acceptable, or they believe it will be no different with another man from their culture, but it's sad to see how hurt and powerless these women feel.

 

I agree. I've learnt a great deal since my experience with someone from that culture. It is just a complete different way of thinking that some don't leave behind when they come to an Anglo Saxon culture. But then they don't understand why women here might see it differently because that is all they have known growing up.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

There was an episode of Modern Family where Gloria is becoming more and more upset that she is being upstaged by Jay's new dog. She finally has a break down and shouts, "even in my country (Columbia), it goes wife, mistress, then dog!" Queue belly laugh! So, it is a common stereotype, for sure.

[fanine]

I see you enjoy external validation.

 

Be very careful with that! It will get you in trouble.

 

Ha! Well I think most women do like to be treated in a ladylike way. Yep I am a very modern woman but I also want to be seen as, and treated like a lady. Not seen as sexy. That is an entirely different thing. I don't see that as an excessive need for external validation. I work in quite a macho industry. It feels good when I am away from it to feel more like a woman.

But most of all I do want a man to be interested in me for my intelligence, the person I am. If i cant have a good damn conversation with a man for example when first meeting then it will go no further. My mind needs to be sparked by someone for it to go further, however much external validation I might be getting.

[fanine]

All of us enjoy external validation, but when enjoyed too much it can be a problem. It puts your self esteem in the hands of this validation.

 

Philandering men are quite good at detecting women in need of validation. Just be careful, the validation can be like a drug for some.

 

In any event I am glad you have a handle on that. I said it because you were impressed by the treatment you received. Was this before or after your knew he was married?

 

Oh all this was well, well before. I didn't know the real truth until about ten months in. As his friends and family were all in it too, I really had no clue he was still basically with his wife...they covered up well for him!